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Single-Payer will never pass while the American Senate exists in it's current form. Giving each state 2 senators regardless of population is the stupidest and most disproportional electoral system imaginable and makes me look at FPTP with a smile.
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Aug 16, 2017 17:08
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leftist heap posted:You have no idea what you're talking about. About this in particular and in general. So... are you saying one of those candidates is both worthwhile on their issues and has a chance at getting people to give a poo poo about voting for them? Which one?
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Aug 16, 2017 17:13
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leftist heap posted:You have no idea what you're talking about. About this in particular and in general. I'd love to hear your takes on the leadership candidates and the current state of the NDP.
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Aug 16, 2017 17:41
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Baronjutter even CI offers a better critique of NDP leadership than you.
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Aug 16, 2017 17:56
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Anishinabek Nations just got a self government agreement to run their own education So, what hot take is there to this being bad because I think it's a good thing.
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Aug 16, 2017 18:02
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bunnyofdoom posted:Anishinabek Nations just got a self government agreement to run their own education How is it different? I assume the idea is the kids get a similar sort of education, except that it's run by the Anishinabek?
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Aug 16, 2017 18:09
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When it comes to the NDP leadership race I prefer Ashton over the other two but not enough to join the party to vote for leadership. I'd set a calendar reminder to do so this past Monday and when it popped up I kinda sighed and dismissed it. And my hot take on first nations forming their own education system as long as those kids get a decent education I'm all for it but only time will tell if a decent education system comes to fruition.
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Aug 16, 2017 18:09
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bunnyofdoom posted:Anishinabek Nations just got a self government agreement to run their own education Can't be worse than the Ontario public system 
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Aug 16, 2017 18:13
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leftist heap posted:Baronjutter even CI offers a better critique of NDP leadership than you. Well let's hear yours, I'm all ears. Educate us on the correct ndp opinions, give us your keen insight and analysis of the leadership race. I'd love to read some actual political discussion rather than endless poo poo posting and beer chat and posting about posting. Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Aug 16, 2017 |
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Aug 16, 2017 18:13
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bunnyofdoom posted:Anishinabek Nations just got a self government agreement to run their own education Go visit a rez school. e. I mean it's not bad but this is a bigger coup for the ANs generally than it is for the students.
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Aug 16, 2017 18:18
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EvilJoven posted:When it comes to the NDP leadership race I prefer Ashton over the other two but not enough to join the party to vote for leadership. I'd set a calendar reminder to do so this past Monday and when it popped up I kinda sighed and dismissed it. I don't have specifics without researching, but there are a number of Indigenous Schools on reserves in Manitoba that are allowed to use and teach their own curriculum and they have awful literacy and graduation rates. One in the past few years adopted the Mantioba curriculum and added in their own teachings alongside it and their literacy and graduation rates skyrocketed. Most Indigenous reserves are so mistrusting of the Canadian/Manitoban governments in general that they are refusing to follow suit. My flaming hot take is we should be looking at a curriculum for all children that teach both what we have now and what Indigenous people want to include in their own schooling. Reconciliation is a two-way street and the government has an opportunity to set a good example for once here.
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Aug 16, 2017 18:35
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Baronjutter posted:Well let's hear yours, I'm all ears. Educate us on the correct ndp opinions, give us your keen insight and analysis of the leadership race. I'd love to read some actual political discussion rather than endless poo poo posting and beer chat and posting about posting. You mistake my criticisms of you as criticisms of your opinions and not of the obviously superficial and facile manner in which you come to them, just like all the other bullshit you post. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 16, 2017 18:42
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DariusLikewise posted:I don't have specifics without researching, but there are a number of Indigenous Schools on reserves in Manitoba that are allowed to use and teach their own curriculum and they have awful literacy and graduation rates. One in the past few years adopted the Mantioba curriculum and added in their own teachings alongside it and their literacy and graduation rates skyrocketed. Most Indigenous reserves are so mistrusting of the Canadian/Manitoban governments in general that they are refusing to follow suit. My flaming hot take is we should be looking at a curriculum for all children that teach both what we have now and what Indigenous people want to include in their own schooling. Reconciliation is a two-way street and the government has an opportunity to set a good example for once here. Welp. Hopefully things go better for kids in the Anishinabek Nations. leftist heap posted:You mistake my criticisms of you as criticisms of your opinions and not of the obviously superficial and facile manner in which you come to them, just like all the other bullshit you post. What the gently caress is all this about.
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Aug 16, 2017 18:45
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EvilJoven posted:What the gently caress is all this about. First Nations schooling is a super touchy subject, just like anything to do with first nations policy in Canada. You let the reserve 100% handle education and literacy and graduation rates plummet and the people coming out of the system have zero ability to function off the reserve because the quality of thier education was so poor. You send in an army of outside experts and white saviors why try to run things just like a random suburban high school and you get no buy-in or trust from the community and "white people coming in and taking over the education of young on reserves to teach them how to be standard correct canadians" doesn't exactly have a great track record. Ideally we'd come up with a system that manages to actually educate kids up to basic provincial standards in a school system no more corrupt or poorly managed than any other school district, all with as much local control and staffing as possible and large local inputs on developing and implementing locally relevant cultural curriculum and policies. Tons of different systems have been tried all over canada, but what systems are adopted are almost entirely driven by politics and mistrust rather than results. I'd be super interested if someone with a lot of first hand experience with FN issues started a thread on the subject. Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Aug 16, 2017 |
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Aug 16, 2017 18:59
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DariusLikewise posted:I don't have specifics without researching, but there are a number of Indigenous Schools on reserves in Manitoba that are allowed to use and teach their own curriculum and they have awful literacy and graduation rates. One in the past few years adopted the Mantioba curriculum and added in their own teachings alongside it and their literacy and graduation rates skyrocketed. Most Indigenous reserves are so mistrusting of the Canadian/Manitoban governments in general that they are refusing to follow suit. My flaming hot take is we should be looking at a curriculum for all children that teach both what we have now and what Indigenous people want to include in their own schooling. Reconciliation is a two-way street and the government has an opportunity to set a good example for once here. I hate to be that guy but do you have sources for this? I'm very dubious that the problem was with the curriculum generally, and specifically because a lot of northern public schools are already going above and beyond what's explicitly mandated for First Nations curriculum and content.
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Aug 16, 2017 19:05
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I was reading a bit about this new Anishinabek education system on their website, and it seemed like a good initiative--though of course that's on the website promoting it so of course they have the most positive possible take about how this new program will solve all education problems forever. My hot take is that it has the potential to be good, but frankly it will all depend on, first, the government actually providing enough money to this new education system for it to succeed, and second, the money actually being managed and spent in a way that leads to that success, neither of which are guaranteed since our governments have a bad track record of sticking to their funding promises when it comes to First Nations, and First Nations leadership probably doesn't currently have the expertise or experience to manage this kind of a system. In a perfect world the funding will come through and everyone will stick with the program through the inevitable difficult bedding-in period and then as everyone involved gets more proficient and trusts each other more, we'll see tangible improvements in student outcomes. In the worst possible world the funding is inadequate and mismanaged, student outcomes plummet, and a few years from now the government unilaterally withdraws or cuts funding, further damaging relationships with First Nations and contributing to future problems for the students on the receiving end. My guess is we'll end up somewhere between these two extremes but I have no idea where.
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Aug 16, 2017 19:08
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Funding should be brought to parity but the issues affecting FN students have way more to do with what's happening at home than they do with what's happening in the school. If the gov't wants to get serious about improving FN educational outcomes then it needs to stop treating schools like single input systems and start pouring money into social services that will tangibly improve the quality of life in the community. The government and the FNs also need to work together to figure out something more healthy for rez kids than sending them to live in boarding homes far away from their home communities in order to finish high school. I don't know what the solution might be because anything too centrally-planned raises the ugly spectre of residential schools but my heart breaks for some of these kids who are 14/15 and from tiny communities who are dumped into boarding houses with a bunch of strangers and classrooms with 25+ students.
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Aug 16, 2017 19:23
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Postess with the Mostest posted:Mike Harris wasn't in a vacuum, the common sense revolution sounded a lot better right after Bob Rae than after 12 years of cryptoconservative OLP policies. If the cons are "you'll pay less", and the ndp is "you'll get more", the libs are "you'll pay less, you'll get more and the rich will pay for it". Bannon's right, it works, voters ignored 10s of billions in deficit because Trudeau was going to give people making 90k to 200k 600 bucks a year. It isn't new though, the devil is in the details. Of course Harris didn't govern in a vacuum, that was the entire point of my post. The Liberals' new fiscal policies aren't occurring in a vacuum either. Twenty years ago the Liberal party embraced austerity and deficit cutting because a critical mass of voters, journalists and politicos supported that policy (and the interest groups who opposed it were too scattered and weak to effectively resist). Today the Liberals have pivoted, rhetorically at least, toward wealth redistribution and government handouts, because the constituency for traditional conservative policies has shrunk a great deal since 2008. Rugged individualism sells a lot better when your voting base is flush and brimming with self confidence. Now that polls show most people expect their living standards to decline over time that kind of fiscal restraint is a vote loser.
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Aug 16, 2017 19:32
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the trump tutelage posted:Funding should be brought to parity but the issues affecting FN students have way more to do with what's happening at home than they do with what's happening in the school. If the gov't wants to get serious about improving FN educational outcomes then it needs to stop treating schools like single input systems and start pouring money into social services that will tangibly improve the quality of life in the community. The government and the FNs also need to work together to figure out something more healthy for rez kids than sending them to live in boarding homes far away from their home communities in order to finish high school. I don't know what the solution might be because anything too centrally-planned raises the ugly spectre of residential schools but my heart breaks for some of these kids who are 14/15 and from tiny communities who are dumped into boarding houses with a bunch of strangers and classrooms with 25+ students. I dunno, I'm conflicted. On one hand I agree - the uptick in youth suicide alone is abhorrent - but I still think this is a step in the right direction. Still, a tremendous amount of money needs to be spent on infrastructure and maintenance otherwise all this stuff is built then just falls away from
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Aug 16, 2017 20:30
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EvilJoven posted:When it comes to the NDP leadership race I prefer Ashton over the other two but not enough to join the party to vote for leadership. I'd set a calendar reminder to do so this past Monday and when it popped up I kinda sighed and dismissed it. Haha you must be my other personality because I did the same thing. I bought Sonic Mania instead!
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Aug 16, 2017 20:43
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Dreylad posted:I dunno, I'm conflicted. On one hand I agree - the uptick in youth suicide alone is abhorrent - but I still think this is a step in the right direction. Still, a tremendous amount of money needs to be spent on infrastructure and maintenance otherwise all this stuff is built then just falls away from
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Aug 16, 2017 21:02
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the trump tutelage posted:Definitely, but that's why I think it's more of a win for the Anishinaabeg in general than for the students specifically, in terms of affirming autonomy etc. This may pay educational dividends over a generational time frame but I'm guessing it will hardly have an effect on the day to day for the students. Which is all to say, I hope this doesn't end up being politicized in a few years when it turns out that the curriculum wasn't really the problem, and hasn't been for a long time. Yeah, true. I wonder if digital learning would help deal with the issue of having to ship kids a few hours to attend high school. But that would still require a serious infrastructure commitment. It's one we really should make.
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Aug 16, 2017 21:12
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As long as teachers on reserve are paid ~70% what the off-reserve teachers the next town over are making - and the reserve schools themselves are receiving ~70% the funding that the school the next town over is receiving – things are only going to get worse, not better. With this type of funding, whether the school is band-run or government-run is kinda moot. There are initiatives in Saskatchewan where predominantly FNMI schools (typically the far North) provide some sort of outdoor-based curricula – students and teachers go out to learn how to camp/canoe/trap/hunt/fish/identify species/etc. This is important because so many FN reserves remain so tiny and isolated. Obviously extracurricular local cultural/social initiatives are limited in scope due to population and poverty. How do you field a football team when the high school has 30 kids, only ten of whom have parents donate money? So you kind of have to work with the hand you’ve been dealt. Unless we fall in with CI and believe in the forcible relocation of remote FNMI communities (lol… good luck), if we are looking to foster self-actualisation and personal growth as an attempt to begin to counter centuries of violent colonial interactions between hostile and alien cultures, these land-based initiatives seem valuable.
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Aug 16, 2017 22:09
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It's not just the pay difference, though. Assuming we're talking about B.Ed. holders and white bodies, there are plenty of teachers who would stay on rez schools if they were allowed to put down roots, or were otherwise encouraged to stay and assured that they had a career in the community for as long as they want and deserve it. For obvious reasons, that will likely never be the case. For example, there are lots of stories of teachers being shown the door, explicitly or implicitly, because of band politics. It reinforces a cycle where new teachers (whether or not they have a saviour complex) look at rez teaching as a dress rehearsal for their careers, because there's no future teaching on the rez even if they don't personally burn out. Institutional knowledge is never accrued. It's an extremely rare person who can build a career teaching on-reservation, especially if we're talking about remote communities. So let's say the reservation pays as much as the public board down the tracks -- the public board is still going to offer job security and career advancement in a way that isn't really possible on-reserve for white (or otherwise not-native) people. The public board is always going to be the end-goal of rez teaching. You can try to get more FN teachers in the classroom, but before you can have qualified FN educators in every classroom, you need to have a critical mass of university-bound FN people who are interested in teaching -- and even then they may still want to go into the public system for the aforementioned reasons. Or, you can radically redefine what it means/takes to be an educator in an FN context relative to a settler context, but then we're dealing with so many other issues and existential questions that I don't even know where you'd begin. The whole situation is so goddamned complex it's almost inconceivable. ... All of that with the preface that of course the funding should be equal.
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Aug 16, 2017 22:34
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the trump tutelage posted:I hate to be that guy but do you have sources for this? I'm very dubious that the problem was with the curriculum generally, and specifically because a lot of northern public schools are already going above and beyond what's explicitly mandated for First Nations curriculum and content. Sorry, I know I was a little vague and light on actual details, I'll look it up a little more depth later. My viewpoint is specifically centered around issues in and around reserves located in Southern Manitoba as that's where I've spent my entire life. I definitely think funding is an issue as well, that's always an underlying issue that no one wants to admit when it comes to First Nations. It kills me when people tell me that racism isn't bad in Canada when we've been systematically destroying an entire race for the duration of our existence.
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Aug 16, 2017 22:35
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leftist heap posted:You mistake my criticisms of you as criticisms of your opinions and not of the obviously superficial and facile manner in which you come to them, just like all the other bullshit you post. Haha what the hell is this? Now i'm curious. Give us your hot take on the NDP leadership race, bud. Enlighten the plebs.
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Aug 16, 2017 23:21
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M.McFly posted:Haha what the hell is this? Nah.
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Aug 17, 2017 00:58
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the trump tutelage posted:Funding should be brought to parity but the issues affecting FN students have way more to do with what's happening at home than they do with what's happening in the school. If the gov't wants to get serious about improving FN educational outcomes then it needs to stop treating schools like single input systems and start pouring money into social services that will tangibly improve the quality of life in the community. The government and the FNs also need to work together to figure out something more healthy for rez kids than sending them to live in boarding homes far away from their home communities in order to finish high school. I don't know what the solution might be because anything too centrally-planned raises the ugly spectre of residential schools but my heart breaks for some of these kids who are 14/15 and from tiny communities who are dumped into boarding houses with a bunch of strangers and classrooms with 25+ students. Bang-on.
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Aug 17, 2017 01:04
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Schools them selves can only do so much. The biggest factor is family/home life. http://educationnext.org/how-family-background-influences-student-achievement/ I hate the word "hollistic" but you can't tackle any FN/reserve issue without looking at the whole picture holistically. You have to improve the living conditions for kids/families at the same time as improving the school system at the same time as improving local infrastructure and mental health issues and substance abuse and racism and corruption and the environment. It's all gotta be one big collection of programs that addresses all the things because they're all so tightly linked, and it needs to be a long term project where it's understood things won't get better in a couple years, it could take a generation, or more. You can't just undo a genocide and generations of poverty and abuse with a few piecemeal programs that get evaluated in a vacuum after a year. Historically are there even any success stories for people with similar histories to our first nations groups? From north america to Australia to south america to Asia, once the initial cultural or physical genocide has been done and the pattern of poverty and discrimination is established it seems extremely difficult to significantly improve things for any of these groups, and that's when the local majority in power even claim to give a poo poo.
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Aug 17, 2017 01:21
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Baronjutter posted:Historically are there even any success stories for people with similar histories to our first nations groups? From north america to Australia to south america to Asia, once the initial cultural or physical genocide has been done and the pattern of poverty and discrimination is established it seems extremely difficult to significantly improve things for any of these groups, and that's when the local majority in power even claim to give a poo poo. The Amish?
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Aug 17, 2017 01:29
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The only success stories I've heard take many hundreds of years to play out.
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Aug 17, 2017 01:33
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Baronjutter posted:Schools them selves can only do so much. The biggest factor is family/home life. I was talking with a work colleague about this issue the other day...he said that in his work with some indigenous elders, that they tell him it will take seven generations to fix. Hard to argue with that even though there's no real data behind it.
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Aug 17, 2017 02:53
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Baronjutter posted:Schools them selves can only do so much. The biggest factor is family/home life. A friend of mine just moved up north as a doctor, and so is seeing some of this stuff first hand. In a conservation we had about the issue generally, I wondered how much could be done when the home life of many of the kids is a horror story. Crowded, filthy conditions, where drugs and alcohol are everywhere. Then throw in rampant violence and sexual abuse. Even if you had an amazing school system, and a mental health and medical system, and access to resources and extra curricular activities, and anything else-- how could you recover from the initial trauma? The core problem to me is that their society has just been completely and systematically smashed over generations. The family life is terrible because its all they've ever known; there is no cultural template to work off of. How do you restart this? Can a government even do that from the outside? The only social force I've thought of that could do this is nationalism. As a political philosophy I'm not a fan, but it does serve to give purpose to people, especially young men with a lot of aggression. It can act as a unifying force, and give pride to a people. But any FN nationalism gets crushed of course, because it would necessarily be hostile to the Canadian government. I just have a hard time imagining a government imposed system "fixing" these problems, however well intentioned.
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Aug 17, 2017 03:07
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Another huge huge issue is that rural life is dead the world over. Even if you're a member of the ruling "in" ethnic group, if you're rural you're hosed. Even if a magic wand could be waved to bring FN groups up to the standards of living, education, and opportunities as the canadian average, they're still hosed simply for so many of their communities being not just extremely rural but extremely remote, often already the victims of forced relocation because some white people wanted their remote rural area so they were moved to an even more marginal remote area. In the rural poverty thread there's no answers. The technocratic answer is to let economically obsolete rural areas die, use carrots and sticks to de-populate these areas and send the people to the cities or to densify some regional town so they at least have a community with the minimal critical mass of people to support basic services and an economy. It's much easier to supply health care and education and infrastructure to a single town of 5,000 than to 50 villages of 100. But that's obviously not an option, unless the people involve have buy-in, it can't be forced from above.
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Aug 17, 2017 03:18
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Going on a road trip for a month around the west coast, I realize how I wish there were 100x the amount of towns along major routes, as long as they're big enough for fast food places
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Aug 17, 2017 03:30
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Just pack some sandwiches in a cooler. You will survive a day without a a&w mama burger
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Aug 17, 2017 04:24
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Black Bones posted:Just pack some sandwiches in a cooler. You will survive a day without a a&w mama burger Yo, holy poo poo, A&W's all day breakfast is loving amazing. Throw the coffee out cause it's backed up turdy toilet water but their english muffin egg'n'bacon/sausage is vastly superior to a mcmuffin in every way. Their hashbrowns also taste like real hashbrowns.
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Aug 17, 2017 04:37
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Wirth1000 posted:Yo, holy poo poo, A&W's all day breakfast is loving amazing. Throw the coffee out cause it's backed up turdy toilet water but their english muffin egg'n'bacon/sausage is vastly superior to a mcmuffin in every way. Their hashbrowns also taste like real hashbrowns. Pro-tip: stick the hash brown into the breakfast sandwich.
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Aug 17, 2017 05:05
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I'm not on the Jagmeet train but he is an incredible candidate who will almost certainly lose an election he could have won because of terrible strategic campaign decisions. See also: Olivia. I don't know who started the Jagmeet = Trudeau meme but they did an incredible job at it, considering that the two people have basically nothing in common except they both have suits that fit.
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Aug 17, 2017 05:46
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Tsyni posted:Pro-tip: stick the hash brown into the breakfast sandwich. 
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Aug 17, 2017 06:11
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