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gently caress. marry. t-rex posted:its not outside of the democratic process to have the NPC vote to kick out one of its members when it has that power, god drat i didn't say it was but it seems like a bonehead move given my points 2 & 3
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Aug 17, 2017 02:49
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Insanite posted:the dsa resurgence is not gonna go all that far if 'engaging with the infrastructure of civil society as it is currently known' triggers this much outrage (TRIGGER WARNING: Engaging With The Infrastructure of Civil Society) Democr
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Aug 17, 2017 02:49
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i'm not even trying to be snarky about it it makes me sad, if anything
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Aug 17, 2017 02:50
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All I can say is that the local DSA here has a meeting coming up and seems fine with punching Nazis and the alternative is a Trotskyist cult so  I don't care what Orange County, California is doing.
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Aug 17, 2017 02:50
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cops and clan go hand in hand
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Aug 17, 2017 02:53
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we need to purge fetonte so we can make room for our new member of NPC and head of campus outreach, terry norman
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Aug 17, 2017 02:54
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sorry everyone we're a filthy reformist org and it's already too late for us we're all collaborators
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Aug 17, 2017 03:01
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god drat it folks, you're supposed to stand on the edge of the big tent pissing OUT
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Aug 17, 2017 03:12
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jarofpiss posted:i'm not really worried about if he stays or goes as long as we do it correctly. The most correct way to do it is for Danny to put the organization before himself and just loving resign. If he doesn't, then I want the org to remove him as quickly as possible. Is it fair to him that he should have to resign because everyone lost their minds on the internet over wildly false accusations (mixed in with some actual true ones, let's not forget)? No, but I'm not going to blame the NPC or twitter or anyone else for his refusal to understand (a) why people have a problem with police unions, and (b) his failure to realize that his ties to them might be an issue for people (or worse, his realization that they would and his deliberate concealment nonetheless -- a point on which I'm agnostic but don't really care about as either case disqualifies him as competent for leadership of the DSA). quote:chapters should not be releasing statements without giving the guy a chance to publicly speak, defend himself, have an investigation by the npc, etc. He's put his version of events out there. His chapter has released a statement in support. What more do people need before they can be justified in their opinion? What does the NPC even need to investigate now? I haven't seen a single statement from a single delegate at the Convention say that Danny Fetonte was forthcoming about his involvement with a police union, except for Danny Fetonte. In fact, even the statements defending him either skate by this point entirely or assert that he had no obligation to reveal it at all. None of this is in any dispute. I am a union advocate, I understand and believe in due process probably more than most people posting in this thread or in the DSA for that matter (and I sympathize with Danny's position that he shouldn't be defined by his association with an organization that is legally required to defend its members' lovely behavior more than most). But in some situations, the only practical effect due process has is prolonging an inevitably painful outcome. There's no good outcome here, the best we can hope for is a quick resolution, and the quickest resolution is achieved by Danny Fetonte resigning from the NPC. quote:that's my worry about this whole thing. all some feds have to do is a background check on an npc member and throw it out on twitter and watch the whole org catch on fire. like do we really think that the rest of the npc have completely spotless backgrounds? If the feds are doing background checks and throwing the results out on twitter, then yeah I feel comfortable asserting that the rest of the NPC is pretty clear, or else we'd be lighting ourselves on fire over their undisclosed blemishes too.
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Aug 17, 2017 03:17
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i get where you're coming from and i know there's no good outcome here, but i really think undermining the fundamental principles of the org and tossing a member based on assumptions of bad faith sets a pretty bad precedent. also i've made lots of tiresome posts about this but really i think the assumption that he concealed his connection with CLEAT comes from a lack of understanding of how unions in this country are structured more than anything.
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Aug 17, 2017 03:27
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Danny Phantom please stop killing the DSA
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Aug 17, 2017 03:32
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good poo poo https://twitter.com/themooserooster/status/898000704085909504
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Aug 17, 2017 03:36
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jarofpiss posted:i get where you're coming from and i know there's no good outcome here, but i really think undermining the fundamental principles of the org and tossing a member based on assumptions of bad faith sets a pretty bad precedent. also i've made lots of tiresome posts about this but really i think the assumption that he concealed his connection with CLEAT comes from a lack of understanding of how unions in this country are structured more than anything. dude honestly if the choice is between one shady guy who presents alot of uncomfortable noise and is a giant headache to have around and a whole mass of African Americans waiting to be embraced into the movement really gently caress principles just do what it takes to get as many new people on board and ultimately to loving WIN.
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Aug 17, 2017 03:37
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I have a solution. Abolish the NPC.
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Aug 17, 2017 03:39
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somebody on the NPC should just call him and say "yo you got a raw deal but you gotta go"
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Aug 17, 2017 03:39
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The most "COINTELPRO" thing about this is the fact that this became an issue because someone with inside knowledge created a fake LinkedIn Profile. If anyone's worried about COINTELPRO poo poo we really need to stop buying into this "outrage" mentality. Also loving lol at the idea that they'd use a multi decade union organizer with a police history thats easily findable and has previously been advertised in DSA elections as their "inside man" lmao. This sort of thing is exactly the sort of weak point COINTELPRO-esque operations will target to destroy our organization, and some of you seem to be actively trying to empower them.
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Aug 17, 2017 03:40
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this rules
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Aug 17, 2017 03:40
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jarofpiss posted:i get where you're coming from and i know there's no good outcome here, but i really think undermining the fundamental principles of the org and tossing a member based on assumptions of bad faith sets a pretty bad precedent. also i've made lots of tiresome posts about this but really i think the assumption that he concealed his connection with CLEAT comes from a lack of understanding of how unions in this country are structured more than anything. The best way to keep the fundamental principles of the org intact is for Danny Fetonte to resign.
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Aug 17, 2017 03:45
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Ronald McReagan posted:The best way to keep the fundamental principles of the org intact is for Danny Fetonte to resign. probably buuuuutttt if you know danny lol
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Aug 17, 2017 03:48
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jarofpiss posted:probably buuuuutttt if you know danny lol dude got hosed over but he should really resign so this can go away
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Aug 17, 2017 03:49
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jarofpiss posted:probably buuuuutttt if you know danny lol I get that, let's just stop hand-wringing about the NPC being in the wrong here.
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Aug 17, 2017 03:52
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Raskolnikov38 posted:dude got hosed over but he should really resign so this can go away If the guy got "hosed over", wouldn't the right thing to do be to stand behind him?
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Aug 17, 2017 03:52
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Mechafunkzilla posted:If the guy got "hosed over", wouldn't the right thing to do be to stand behind him? in fairness he's like half at fault for not being open and then mismanaging this
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Aug 17, 2017 03:53
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GlyphGryph posted:The most "COINTELPRO" thing about this is the fact that this became an issue because someone with inside knowledge created a fake LinkedIn Profile. If anyone's worried about COINTELPRO poo poo we really need to stop buying into this "outrage" mentality. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if feds were the ones behind the faked LinkedIn, or otherwise were responsible somehow. Doesn't change the fact that the quickest and easiest way to defuse the whole situation is for him to resign. I don't think he's COINTELPRO, but if he were, he'd be doing exactly what he's doing now.
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Aug 17, 2017 03:54
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Mechafunkzilla posted:If the guy got "hosed over", wouldn't the right thing to do be to stand behind him? yes because the optics standing behind a cop when a large majority of african americans have drawn the line in the sand on this is a great way for the DSA to reach out to them.
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Aug 17, 2017 03:55
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Al-Saqr posted:yes because the optics standing behind a cop when a large majority of african americans have drawn the line in the sand on this is a great way for the DSA to reach out to them. tbh i'd like more than goonsay before i believe that there's going to be a revolt of PoC members if this dude stays on
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Aug 17, 2017 03:56
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Owns
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Aug 17, 2017 04:00
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Why would anyone want to join or take a leadership position in an organization that will abandon one of its own because of unsubstantiated twitter outrage? Even if the worst things you say about this guy are true and he's literally a CIA assassin there still needs to be a process, and the fact that people's first instinct was to head to twitter and google docs rather than any kind of internal review or complaint procedure is a ridiculously bad look.
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Aug 17, 2017 04:02
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well the issue is that it isn't unsubstantiated. i'd really like to know who published the linkedin but the information in it wasn't false
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Aug 17, 2017 04:03
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Business Gorillas posted:tbh i'd like more than goonsay before i believe that there's going to be a revolt of PoC members if this dude stays on Yeah for all the noise people on Twitter have been making I doubt a large majority of anyone is even paying attention to this.
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Aug 17, 2017 04:03
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Mechafunkzilla posted:unsubstantiated so now he didn't work for CLEAT
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Aug 17, 2017 04:05
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TrilliontonNixon posted:Yeah for all the noise people on Twitter have been making I doubt a large majority of anyone is even paying attention to this. just to divert away from this how's everyone handling that email blast we got from national? are any of you guys scheduling meetings next week? we have our steering meeting tomorrow and i'm gonna kick a fuss
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Aug 17, 2017 04:05
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Al-Saqr posted:dude honestly if the choice is between one shady guy who presents alot of uncomfortable noise and is a giant headache to have around and a whole mass of African Americans waiting to be embraced into the movement really gently caress principles just do what it takes to get as many new people on board and ultimately to loving WIN. Look, at this point, I think it's for the best if he resigns, but it's not just about an abstract principle here. If his place on the NPC is actually an issue for African Americans or other POC than he absolutely shouldn't be there. But we can't just go off whoever is posting online, that's not giving a voice to all the people who might not be paying attention to twitter. There has also been a lot of exaggerating about how much involvement he actually had with police, and its important to not immediately cave in to internet rumors. An organization that did that would be easily manipulated by outsiders. Raskolnikov38 posted:dude got hosed over but he should really resign so this can go away yeah basically
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Aug 17, 2017 04:06
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Raskolnikov38 posted:well the issue is that it isn't unsubstantiated. i'd really like to know who published the linkedin but the information in it wasn't false His work with CWA and how that relates to CLEAT was clarified by him, after the fact. A fake linkedin account isn't substantiation even if it contained true information. The outrage train sure as hell didn't slow down to wait for the facts to come out.
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Aug 17, 2017 04:06
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Why would anyone want to join or take a leadership position in an organization that will abandon one of its own because of unsubstantiated twitter outrage? Even if the worst things you say about this guy are true and he's literally a CIA assassin there still needs to be a process. because politics is about winning and if some random cop is standing between you and a mass of potential recruits and a wider outreach to African Americans then really who gives a poo poo about abandoning one cop? leadership means you get the approval and trust of your followers, if they dont trust you as a result of one of your members being shady, then kick him off to the curb so that the larger goal succeeds. Like I dont get why you guys are hung up about this one dude. anyways, maybe my perceptions comes from a much more brutal environment for political activism so maybe my outlook on the value of the individual is much less merciful, like him staying is much worse for the overall goal then him leaving, so gently caress it, kick him to the curb, let the people who support him cry and squeal and just ignore them and push forward with the larger goal of widening the potential recruitment pool of the movement. Al-Saqr has issued a correction as of 04:12 on Aug 17, 2017 |
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Aug 17, 2017 04:07
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https://twitter.com/RoyaltonPatrick/status/898009118601912320
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Aug 17, 2017 04:09
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Danny Blue Lives Matter Fetonte
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Aug 17, 2017 04:10
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oh jesus christ
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Aug 17, 2017 04:11
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okay now shitcan this guy for pulling out "my black friends"
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Aug 17, 2017 04:12
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sorry I know everyone is tired of me posting this but please read if you're trying to talk in good faith and not just score internet owns: 1. not a cop 2. normal CWA union organizer assigned to bring in cleat among many other duties 3. worked for cleat after retirement for a couple of years, worked on community policing initiatives and other generally progressive police reforms (reforms being the key word) 4. cleat was part of CWA, he worked for CWA, none of this is secret 5. none of this matters because people thought a fake linked in was his entire resume and ran with it and the narrative got out of control
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Aug 17, 2017 04:13
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