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Even with Wakaichiro, he probably wouldn't be there if he couldn't take advantage of Japanese ancestry through his mother. Each sumo stable is limited to only one foreigner, so there's not much room to take a flyer on someone, they are going to use their one spot on someone they really believe in.
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Jul 24, 2017 20:54
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How much resistance from the elders would there be if one of the smaller stables decided to experiment with non-Japanese sports science and abandon the traditional diet, say? My guess is a lot.
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Jul 24, 2017 21:13
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Tsaedje posted:How much resistance from the elders would there be if one of the smaller stables decided to experiment with non-Japanese sports science and abandon the traditional diet, say? My guess is a lot. Well it seems like sumo is still a thing people watch and do at least half because of its enormous traditional basis so yeah I can't imagine that'd go over well. Actually I dont' know enough about the inner workings and drama of the stables and the elders and all that, but would they even be allowed? At some point in the last basho or two, Jason was talking about the inter-stable politics and the elders and all that, and it seemed like the entire world of sumo operates at the whim and capriciousness of the sport's elder statesmen, so even if such a stable started, I'm thinking they just wouldn't be invited. Could be totally wrong though, that's for sure. When I started watching (in like...january of 2017 I guess) I could hardly tell the wrestlers apart, but now I can pick out pretty much all of the guys I see on a regular basis just based on physique. You got the bulldog guys like Ura and the giants like Kisenosato and the big, powerful motherfuckers who aren't quite as enormous mountains of flesh, like Hakuho. And then there's aoiyama who has the biggest tits this side of a zena nudie pic from 1995 AOL chat rooms. This basho, I watched every aoiyama match completely confused. Sure, he 's got decent technique and all, but how the hell did he manage to do THAT well? I'm sure it's mostly because he was buried in the M-ranks and when he's moved up next basho it won't be anywhere near the demolition derby it was this time. But what the hell -happened- with him? Did he just go on a streak? Decide to go out in a blaze of glory? I know he's been around for quite a while and I know all the injuries shook things up this tournament, but god drat was that weird. Anyway, it was nice seeing Tochinoshin get some good bouts in, Ura was awesome to watch until his rampage petered out, and it was really awesome to see what honestly felt like, as a new sumo fan, seeing Michael Jordan at his height in the 90s, or watching Mike Tyson at his peak with Hakuho's record and complete destruction of everyone.
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Jul 25, 2017 04:11
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Platypus Farm posted:This basho, I watched every aoiyama match completely confused. Sure, he 's got decent technique and all, but how the hell did he manage to do THAT well? I'm sure it's mostly because he was buried in the M-ranks and when he's moved up next basho it won't be anywhere near the demolition derby it was this time. But what the hell -happened- with him? Did he just go on a streak? Decide to go out in a blaze of glory? I know he's been around for quite a while and I know all the injuries shook things up this tournament, but god drat was that weird. I just took a quick look at all the videos on sumodb again, and it's a combination of a few things. Chiyonokuni should have beat him, but his toe was out by an inch, and then there was that bizarre as gently caress monoii in the Kagayaki match that he definitely should have lost. So, a little luck was the difference between 13-2 and 11-4 right off the bat. As far as technique, that's probably the best he's ever done at keeping other people off his mawashi, either by going straight to the face-smash like Akebono used to do, or by blowing it up with a Takayasu kachiage after impact so that he could keep them off the mawashi and start the tsuppari storm. Maybe he studied his opponents better, or maybe he just got lucky with choosing the right tachi-ai at the right time in almost every single match like Kotoshogiku did when he got his yusho. And finally, the most obvious explanation of a poo poo-easy schedule - nobody above M4 (Kagayaki, who technically should have beat him) until the last day against Yoshikaze. He also avoided having to go against Tochiozan, who was on fire, since they're both Kasugano-beya. Long story short, basically a Kotoshogiku flash in the pan. He'll probably be M1 or M2 next basho and get loving annihilated like Ikioi does every time he sniffs sanyaku.
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Jul 25, 2017 04:37
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Tsaedje posted:How much resistance from the elders would there be if one of the smaller stables decided to experiment with non-Japanese sports science and abandon the traditional diet, say? My guess is a lot. Kotooshu, a retired Ozeki and naturalized Japanese citizen from Bulgaria, has started a stable with the intent of bringing in more modern training methods. I understand that he's fairly limited in the reforms he can make, both by formal rules and unwritten conventions.
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Jul 25, 2017 05:07
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Rigel posted:There are few things in the world less healthy and more of an homage to pure industrial-strength gluttony than the offerings at a summer state fair in the US. They are self-aware too, its the whole point, people are disappointed if the new food introduced doesn't top the prior year for being incredibly unhealthy. The horror, the horror. I feel greasy just looking at that. Tsaedje posted:How much resistance from the elders would there be if one of the smaller stables decided to experiment with non-Japanese sports science and abandon the traditional diet, say? My guess is a lot. There's not much reason to ditch the traditional diet though - chankonabe is basically packed full of calories with high protein and high fat, which is what a sumo body needs. Watch a documentary like "Strongman" (which is about Eddie Hall trying to become strongest man in the world) and look at what they're eating - 15000 calories a day, lots of protein. It wouldn't be unfair to compare sumo to strongman, in a way. Both need the muscle and strongmen aren't exactly lean (not sumo fat like Gaga or Aoiyama, but more like Hakuho, Ishiura or Ham-fu). I'm sure the wrestlers hit the protein powders too, and heaps of them are in the gym in the afternoons. Even someone like Gagamaru needs to be strong enough to be able to bump someone like Aoiyama or Ichinojo around.
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Jul 25, 2017 05:12
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I was under the impression that the higher ranked rikishi had a reasonable degree of freedom over diets/training. Hakuho doesn't have to eat Chanko unless he wants to, does he?
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Jul 25, 2017 13:19
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Well, he'd still have to do the morning traditional training, but higher ranked rikishi start later in the morning. And I think that the chankonabe is eaten just after training, so I'd be surprised if he/they didn't partake. Maybe someone knows more detail... There's heaps of photos on Twitter of various rikishi (of all ranks) eating out in the evenings - Hokutofuji and friends seem to be constantly eating out, if his Twitter feed is anything to go by. There was a feature on Gagamaru last year after he got his kinboshi over Harumafuji where he went out to a ramen bar and smashed a few bowls for dinner. He also loves natto, apparently.
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Jul 25, 2017 13:43
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Konstantin posted:Kotooshu, a retired Ozeki and naturalized Japanese citizen from Bulgaria, has started a stable with the intent of bringing in more modern training methods. I understand that he's fairly limited in the reforms he can make, both by formal rules and unwritten conventions. My feeling is that there really isn't a ton of more modern training methods that could help. At least, ones that aren't questionable in terms of ethics, like supplements. These guys are already more flexible and resilient than gridiron or rugby players, and injuries NOT due to awkward falls are pretty rare. Like with most martial arts, the effectiveness in its training is in its simplicity and repetition. Sure, highly-trained MMA fighters can generally defeat karate or kung fu masters, but that's more because the whole purpose of MMA is to maim while karate and kung fu are martial arts first and killing methods second. Japan is also a first-world country now, so more rikishi are bigger and stronger than before simply because they have more general access to better food and training equipment. You could maybe argue that the Mongolian revolution was similar to the MMA revolution in introducing new and consistent styles for winning (throws, mostly), but Chiyonofuji and Kitanoumi were consistently hurling fatties out of the ring more than 30 years ago.
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Jul 25, 2017 14:16
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It sounds that if anything needs a modern revolution, it's handling significant injuries
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Jul 25, 2017 14:20
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I know the biggest thing going around NBA training circles the last few years is changing body mechanics so that players become less injury prone (running gait, landing, explosive cutting/jumping, etc.). Not sure how much of that can be applied in sumo since I imagine their techniques already take that into account? Maybe a fresh look at those techniques can make them even safer to use? Do sumo stables incorporate modern strength training methods? That can make a huge difference. dupersaurus posted:It sounds that if anything needs a modern revolution, it's handling significant injuries This is probably the lowest hanging fruit, though. The wrestlers compete through injuries they really shouldn't.
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Jul 25, 2017 14:54
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Which feels like it's less to do with injury prevention or treatment and more to do with the promotion/relegation system
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Jul 25, 2017 15:41
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Omnikin posted:Which feels like it's less to do with injury prevention or treatment and more to do with the promotion/relegation system Exactly. It shouldn't be just Yokozuna who can go kyujo for a whole tournament and not be in ANY danger at all (unless they make a habit of it). I can't imagine it flies in the face of the spirit of sumo too much to give every makuuchi - and possibly juryo - one full kyujo per calendar year without penalty. That of course would mean you withdraw before the basho begins - none of that day 3 poo poo after going haha whoops maybe I shouldn't have done that. I would imagine the injury would have to be certifiable as significant, i.e. muscle/ligament/bone damage. e: Although, I realized it could be a bit of a banzuke nightmare if you pull out of a basho before the banzuke is finalized, resulting in, for example, an M3 pulling out, someone else being bumped up to M3, and then having to account for 3 rikishi at M3 and the re-entry of the kyujo rikishi in the next banzuke. This would have to be after the banzuke is finalized so that the place is held, but before the basho begins so that schedules can be adjusted. e2: Also, it's still fine to let Ozeki come back from an injury as kadoban. Just let them take 2 or more basho off to heal fully before returning in kadoban status. Fryhtaning fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Jul 25, 2017 |
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Jul 25, 2017 17:06
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As I understand it they felt that some guys were abusing the old injury system to protect themselves unfairly, but the current system where taking time off for any injury means serious demotion is ridiculous. Tochinoshin lost at least 18 months of his career getting back up the ranks, Masunoyama is still down in Jonidan and hasn't been in the top division in 3 years at least in part because he didn't get proper medical intervention for ages. I would have no problem keeping the current rules, if they had some sort of independent injury panel to look at medical evidence and give necessary exemptions. Bruises, sprains, even minor fractures that can heal in 2 months: get over it. Heart, brain, lungs, etc: please get treatment.
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Jul 25, 2017 22:13
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And joints. Always take care of those joints. Especially at these weights and forces.
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Jul 25, 2017 23:46
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Fryhtaning posted:Exactly. It shouldn't be just Yokozuna who can go kyujo for a whole tournament and not be in ANY danger at all (unless they make a habit of it). I can't imagine it flies in the face of the spirit of sumo too much to give every makuuchi - and possibly juryo - one full kyujo per calendar year without penalty. That of course would mean you withdraw before the basho begins - none of that day 3 poo poo after going haha whoops maybe I shouldn't have done that. I would imagine the injury would have to be certifiable as significant, i.e. muscle/ligament/bone damage. I wonder if some of the smarter rikishi who listen to doctor's advice can manufacture a legit reason to go kyojo when they never should have competed in the first place. Go in, protect your injured parts, make a show of competing, maybe even try to beat one or two lower ranked guys to show the sumo association you are fighting, and as soon as you take a nasty spill out of the ring, claim an injury. Rigel fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Jul 26, 2017 |
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Jul 26, 2017 03:29
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Fryhtaning posted:My feeling is that there really isn't a ton of more modern training methods that could help. At least, ones that aren't questionable in terms of ethics, like supplements. These guys are already more flexible and resilient than gridiron or rugby players, and injuries NOT due to awkward falls are pretty rare. Like with most martial arts, the effectiveness in its training is in its simplicity and repetition. Sure, highly-trained MMA fighters can generally defeat karate or kung fu masters, but that's more because the whole purpose of MMA is to maim while karate and kung fu are martial arts first and killing methods second. Japan is also a first-world country now, so more rikishi are bigger and stronger than before simply because they have more general access to better food and training equipment. I wonder how much drilling rikishi do with techniques, or whether they have to more or less puzzle it out themselves. From pictures I've seen, the traditional morning training is all the shiko-y stuff, the butsugari stuff and bouts - it doesn't seem like anyone drills, say, 100 of a particular throw. It seems odd, because part of Hakuho's dominance is his amazing technique - his foot work, the way he uses his centre of gravity and being able to read his opponent. When he fought Ura this basho just gone, Ura attempted a double leg grab, which Hakuho dodged, but would probably have caught probably most anyone else. Surely you'd train something like that, or maybe Hakuho's just lucky enough to be a sumo savant. I'd say the other part of his dominance is he probably has close to an ideal sumo body - he's about average rikishi weight, but carries it on a tall frame, so he doesn't lose much speed, but is still hard to knock about.
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Jul 26, 2017 06:02
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Elissimpark posted:I wonder how much drilling rikishi do with techniques, or whether they have to more or less puzzle it out themselves. From pictures I've seen, the traditional morning training is all the shiko-y stuff, the butsugari stuff and bouts - it doesn't seem like anyone drills, say, 100 of a particular throw. I'm certain they drill technique and fundamentals. It's probably like how with pro baseball or whatever, they're going to show you the more interesting parts or unique parts of a particular team's training tradition/regimen, and not them playing "catch the grounder" for two hours a day to drill fundamentals.
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Aug 1, 2017 19:42
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Platypus Farm posted:I'm certain they drill technique and fundamentals. It's probably like how with pro baseball or whatever, they're going to show you the more interesting parts or unique parts of a particular team's training tradition/regimen, and not them playing "catch the grounder" for two hours a day to drill fundamentals. Right, and typically the later training sessions are where the rikishi break out into their own specialized exercises. Some guys need more leg work, some guys need more speed, some try to pack on more muscle, and so on.
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Aug 2, 2017 02:55
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If anyone is wanting some sumo stuff in between basho and is interested in a bit of sumo history, Jason is covering a Japanese program about the 30 most popular rikishi according to a fan poll. It's a pretty fun series so far. They've got a clip of Takanohana vs. Akebono when they were 15 and 19 years old respectively, as well as one of Takayasu doing karaoke. Pretty fun!
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Aug 4, 2017 06:33
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Kenning posted:If anyone is wanting some sumo stuff in between basho and is interested in a bit of sumo history, Jason is covering a Japanese program about the 30 most popular rikishi according to a fan poll. It's a pretty fun series so far. They've got a clip of Takanohana vs. Akebono when they were 15 and 19 years old respectively, as well as one of Takayasu doing karaoke. Pretty fun! Pretty awesome series as far as the content goes, although a little all-over-the-place since the question they asked was so open-ended. I wish they had narrowed the scope a bit so that the results would have been more interesting.
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Aug 4, 2017 16:29
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Bit of a shame Jason didn't think to get his info together on the older guys before pressing the record button, but fun stuff in there.
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Aug 4, 2017 20:00
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 See, this is why I have Twitter.
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Aug 17, 2017 01:30
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Elissimpark posted:
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Aug 17, 2017 02:55
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That's awesome. The guys at tachiai.org are talking about a lot of the top-rank guys being injured going into the Aki basho, including Hakuho (who pulled out of the summer tour to rest his knee). Takayasu is the only one who's in full fighting trim as of right now. This is going to be a really weird basho if all the ozeki and yokozuna are fighting on the weak side.
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Aug 17, 2017 05:33
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Probably not much weirder than any given basho last year, really. Though it would be nice to have the all top flight dudes in....uh, top flight, for once
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Aug 17, 2017 06:43
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Depending on how injuries pan out, there could very well be a moment in the next 18 months when all the current yokozuna are gone, along with Terunofuji and Goeido (either retired or just demoted). I wonder how long it will take to fill the power vacuum once Hakuho and Harumafuji aren't sitting up at the top spoiling ozeki and yokozuna runs.
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Aug 17, 2017 07:10
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If you want a picture of the future, imagine Tamawashi at S1 - forever.
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Aug 17, 2017 07:52
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They're going to make Aoiyama yokozuna just because that would be the weirdest thing that could happen. Although if there really is a basho that is so light on the big names, it might give some of the other lower card guys a chance for some attention. Sure, they'll just get slaughtered when the big name rikishi come back, but it'd be nice to see some of them do well.
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Aug 17, 2017 18:52
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Platypus Farm posted:Although if there really is a basho that is so light on the big names, it might give some of the other lower card guys a chance for some attention. Sure, they'll just get slaughtered when the big name rikishi come back, but it'd be nice to see some of them do well. It is nice, but then they make sanyaku and you have those photos of them pointing at the banzuke looking really happy and then they get smashed and end up at like M12 or something and that can't be good for the ego. Some more twitter fun: https://twitter.com/IchiroYoung_/status/898292086377660416 Flick through the photos for more "Mitakeuimi holding pairs of things": https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/photonews/photonews_nsInc_1873826-0.html
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Aug 18, 2017 06:35
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Elissimpark posted:It is nice, but then they make sanyaku and you have those photos of them pointing at the banzuke looking really happy and then they get smashed and end up at like M12 or something and that can't be good for the ego. On the other hand, there hasn't been a Yokozuna-free period since a couple of basho before Akebono became Yokozuna. It'd be cool to witness something like that in the future because why the gently caress not. Watching Hakuho smashing records is getting to be rather dull, and Kisenoyokozuna is so yesterday's news already.
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Aug 19, 2017 04:45
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Fryhtaning posted:Watching Hakuho smashing records is getting to be rather dull How dare you.
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Aug 21, 2017 12:49
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Puckish Rogue posted:How dare you. Let's be honest, about all that's left is the kind of stuff you might have on sumo trivia night. He has crushed the career yusho and has now surpassed both career win margins. 40 will be cool to see since it's an order of 10 that hasn't been breached for obvious reasons, and making it to 2020 for the Olympics will be less about winning and more about staying healthy. I don't want him to stop winning and I hope he wins 45 yusho, but the Hakuho show has definitely jumped the shark at this point.
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Aug 22, 2017 17:29
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I feel like there should be a sumo management game where you try to run a stable of fighters and see how many you get up there in the Y/O ranks for points.
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Aug 22, 2017 18:11
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Kanthulhu posted:I feel like there should be a sumo management game where you try to run a stable of fighters and see how many you get up there in the Y/O ranks for points. That sounds like a perfect Kairosoft game if there ever was one. Doing a little Google-fu, seems like the closest thing that's ever been out there is something like this: http://www.nintendolife.com/reviews/2009/12/eat_fat_fight Pretty pathetic offerings otherwise. If my development skills weren't about 10 years outdated, and I had that thing called free time, a sumo sim would be a fun as hell thing to design. Looks like a couple of games have been developed on sumogames.de that are not just fantasy sports-style, but they seem to be more of a 'develop your rikishi and rise through the ranks' kind of game.
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Aug 22, 2017 19:22
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My guess is the NSK doesn't want to play ball with a license, and I doubt any rikishi will go around them and give permission for their likenesses to be in a video game without the NSK's consent. Maybe we'll get a game with Hakuho's name on it if he retires and doesn't become an oyataka.
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Aug 22, 2017 19:44
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EA Sports presents NSK 18
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Aug 22, 2017 21:22
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I actually think a very fun and simple version would be done by the ZenGM guys- maybe I'll drop him a tweet and see if he could put it together easy enough. I heartily recommend the original ZenGM Basketball GM for downtime at work http://zengm.com/
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Aug 22, 2017 21:25
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Martytoof posted:EA Sports presents NSK 18 If it's in the game, it's in the game. Eating, sleeping, repetitive as gently caress training, yaocho, racism towards outsiders, and blatant henkas. Sign me UP. Omnikin posted:I actually think a very fun and simple version would be done by the ZenGM guys- maybe I'll drop him a tweet and see if he could put it together easy enough. I heartily recommend the original ZenGM Basketball GM for downtime at work That'd be deeper than anything else currently out. That'd be cool. I dropped a line to Kairosoft myself, so we'll see if anything comes of it. Konstantin posted:My guess is the NSK doesn't want to play ball with a license, and I doubt any rikishi will go around them and give permission for their likenesses to be in a video game without the NSK's consent. Maybe we'll get a game with Hakuho's name on it if he retires and doesn't become an oyataka. Or just do it 90's style and have Hakubo, Haramafuji, Kisonosata, etc, that oddly resemble real rikishi with similar names.
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Aug 23, 2017 01:00
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Fryhtaning posted:If it's in the game, it's in the game. Eating, sleeping, repetitive as gently caress training, yaocho, racism towards outsiders, and blatant henkas. Sign me UP. That'd be pretty much Fire Pro Wrestling, just for sumo. And it would be loving awesome.
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Aug 23, 2017 04:30
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