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enraged_camel posted:In the next season of Defenders, they should just tie Danny up in the first episode and just leave him there until the end. That worked out pretty well here, didn't it?
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Aug 20, 2017 05:43
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Gyges posted:The only people pointing out Danny sucks in IF are the villains. Defenders builds on that and has allies and heroes tell him he sucks, and unlike in IF he seems to accept that he needs to change. IF had him talk about needing to complete his training, but Defenders expands that to him needing to grow overall and come to terms with not just his kung-fu limitations but also his personal limitations. When anyone calls out Danny in IF, he gets petulant as all gently caress and ignores what they said. When Luke calls him out in Defenders he goes and reflects on what Luke said and actually changes his methods. defenders should have had about twice as much "some combination of the main 4 shooting the poo poo" as it did. save for a few moments, mostly it was just quips in between story driven exposition.
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Aug 20, 2017 05:58
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Seems to me this show is only good for seeing where the characters end up next season: Misty Knight recovering from That poo poo, Jessica working again, Jessica and Luke working through their poo poo etc and seeing Jessica and Matt bounce off each other. I'd like to see that dynamic continue, but it remains to be seen. Still, the biggest problem is like. Each show had its own unique style that worked for it. Defenders tries and fails to match them all together into one product. If you didn't watch Luke Cage and skipped to Defenders, those random bursts of hip hop when he fights would seem kinda skeevy. Anyway, my ultimate thoughts are: if you only care about DD, JJ, and LC and can handle some confusion, skip past every Danny solo scene and most of the conversations between Hand agents. You'll be done in 4-5 hours.
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Aug 20, 2017 05:59
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Matt and Jessica can be like Saul Goodman and Mike, but superheroes instead of hilarious, lovable assholes.cams posted:defenders should have had about twice as much "some combination of the main 4 shooting the poo poo" as it did. save for a few moments, mostly it was just quips in between story driven exposition. I can understand why there wasn't. That was the part I liked, but too be realistic, this is a comic book show. So there has to be lots of unnecessary fight scenes. Lycus fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Aug 20, 2017 |
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Aug 20, 2017 06:05
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Anyway, I hope the Hand is done for good now, and they find a more compelling villain or group of villains for DD and IF. Although I really doubt that, since we didn't see Elektra die, so there's a good chance she'll be the tie-in to more Hand poo poo.
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Aug 20, 2017 06:06
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I was under the impression that Jessica doesn't have super durability, so she could theoretically punch something so hard her hand explodes and she has to constantly pull back. Or she doesn't want to pulp people into a mist because that'd make her a murderer. It's just unfortunate that "super strength" is already a filled niche in the supergroup she is. In the same way it's a shame for Finn Jones that Cox looks so much better doing kung-fu. I also agree with this: Anyway, the order of shows from good to bad is now: DD2 first half with punisher > DD1 > JJ > LC first half with cottonmouth > Defenders > LC second half with diamondback > IF Firstborn fucked around with this message at 06:58 on Aug 20, 2017 |
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Aug 20, 2017 06:53
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Second half of Luke Cage is good to me because Luke's peanut gallery urging him not to take DB's insults to Luke's mom lying down. Fight for your mom Luke.
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Aug 20, 2017 07:03
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I liked how Cottonmouth's room was lit not unlike those special light bulbs you might put in a lizard cage, and there was some real intimidation going on whenever he had his stooges come in. That's way more inspired lighting than anything here. I cannot believe how much time is devoted to Colleen and her Highlander: the Series fight scene in the final episode. I cannot believe we still have infighting in the final episode. When we finally get "hey the team is working together" at the very end, Finn Jones isn't a part of it. It's poopy bring on the punisher now please
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Aug 20, 2017 07:17
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Firstborn posted:I was under the impression that Jessica doesn't have super durability, so she could theoretically punch something so hard her hand explodes and she has to constantly pull back. Or she doesn't want to pulp people into a mist because that'd make her a murderer. It's just unfortunate that "super strength" is already a filled niche in the supergroup she is. In the same way it's a shame for Finn Jones that Cox looks so much better doing kung-fu. Jessica has super strength, a minor healing factor, and a limited durability increase. Plus something half way between flight and super jumps. She can get hit by a truck and limp it off. quote:I also agree with this: I'm not a huge fan of the second half of DD2, but I don't think it's bad enough to be left off the list entirely.
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Aug 20, 2017 07:19
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Plus I think I saw her punch a guy
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Aug 20, 2017 07:24
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Firstborn posted:I liked how Cottonmouth's room was lit not unlike those special light bulbs you might put in a lizard cage, and there was some real intimidation going on whenever he had his stooges come in. That's way more inspired lighting than anything here. That fight in the finale between Colleen and Bakuto was awful. The highlight was Misty taking three steps towards a guy with a sword, firing three shots, and then reloading while standing perfectly still.
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Aug 20, 2017 07:32
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Firstborn posted:DD2 first half with punisher > DD1 > JJ > LC first half with cottonmouth > Defenders > LC second half with diamondback > IF
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Aug 20, 2017 07:34
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Gyges posted:I'm not a huge fan of the second half of DD2, but I don't think it's bad enough to be left off the list entirely. Yeah, whoops, forgot about that one. DD2 first half with punisher > DD1 > JJ > LC first half with cottonmouth > DD2 second half with the Hand > Defenders > LC second half with diamondback > IF
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Aug 20, 2017 07:41
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Only three episodes in so far, taking my time, but so far I'm really digging it. Ep3: Danny is going to fight the Hand on a different front. So he represents Rand Enterprises, marches right up to the boardroom and confronts them on their illegal dealings with his company. Danny is ridiculously blunt, but otherwise I'm enjoying that he is TRYING to represent his company and tell them to watch themselves. Then of course, he walks right off the deep end into talking about the Hand and Kunlun and the Iron Fist, and I'm like "nooooo Danny you look crazy!" And then Sigourney Weaver gives the arrogant eyebrow, and sics her BATTLE INVESTOR NINJAS at Danny for being the Iron Fist and challenging their might. That poo poo is amazing. That is a natural 1 on diplomacy, met by an equal natural 1 by your opponent. That was fantastic, I was laughing nonstop. Danny is a 13 year old in an adult's body, and somehow reality is conforming itself to his deepest desires: he really wants to fight some loving ninjas everywhere. He is a goddamn treasure. 
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Aug 20, 2017 07:51
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Cursory scattered thoughts after a real busy Saturday (full season spoilers follow): Still not regretting skipping Iron Fist. This show gave me the exact right amount of info in order to get whatever gist I needed to get about him. That said, holy poo poo is there a fuckshit ton of exposition in this show. That said, I didn't think the setup part of the series was as bad as expected. I enjoyed seeing where all the characters were at right now, and how they got closer and closer to each other bit by bit. Honestly, there are so many characters in this series that I really like and I just really like it when they do things...that's probably the biggest draw of this franchise that'll keep me (mostly) invested. But man, the scene where everyone gangs up on Danny and decides that they need to physically imprison him has to contain the most forced, stilted, labored pieces of writing that mine senses have ever experienced. I understand having to get from point A to point....X or whatever, but the leaps of logic and characterization and narrative we had to cross in order to do so was just dire. I think Jessica gets the coveted honor of being best character of this show, which might seem strange considering how she's by far the most cursory "protagonist" of this storyline. But now that she's largely finished with her own personal Kilgrave melodrama, she gets to just be the badass PI who gets poo poo done and avoid making super stupid choices like a lot of the other main characters, by which I mostly mean Matt and Danny.  I'm really glad they haven't forgotten that Stick is in fact a pretty vile piece of poo poo. I was worried because the promos made him seem like the cool snarky wise mentor whipping the youngin's into shape again and even Matt seemed to forget about just how manipulative and two-faced he can be, but then he did the same-old tired and hypocritical ends-justify-means shite and I was actually like "Oh thank god, they're not walking back on that," and then I could just be glad when he died. I dunno...something about this type of characters gets on my nerves a lot, far moreso than someone like Danny or Karen (just to name some disliked character archetypes off the top of my head). Action was, in broad strokes, pretty good. There are some real suspect moments here and there though, and I kinda expected better from them at this point. Does Elektra have super-strength or not? In one moment she's brushing off car collisions and kicking Luke Cage ten feet across the room, in another moment Matt is 1v1ing her and pinning her down with half-nelsons. Speaking of which, Matt can hear a bloody silenced gunshot from somewhere at the top floors of a skyscraper, but he can't hear Jessica standing a block away snapping pictures of him? All in all I'd give this show about a 6/10, maybe 6.5 on a technicality. I enjoyed a lot of it, but it's really not the great awesome cap-off series that it could've been. You'd think they'd have gotten into the swing and groove of things after five seasons of these Netflix shows, but I think this and Iron Fist (from what I've heard) show that it's still kind of a crapshoot...sometimes it hits those highs, other times it still just barely suffices. BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 07:58 on Aug 20, 2017 |
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Aug 20, 2017 07:53
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BrianWilly posted:Does Elektra have super-strength or not? She didn't previously, but does now. Might be a side effect of the "substance", although it's hard to say since none of the Hand leaders have super-strength.
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Aug 20, 2017 07:59
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BrianWilly posted:All in all I'd give this show about a 6/10, maybe 6.5 on a technicality. I enjoyed a lot of it, but it's really not the great awesome cap-off series that it could've been. You'd think they'd have gotten into the swing and groove of things after five seasons of these Netflix shows, but I think this and Iron Fist (from what I've heard) show that it's still kind of a crapshoot...sometimes it hits those highs, other times it still just barely suffices.  I think if they had one or two more episodes, there would have been more room for team-building/bonding scenes, and side characters would also have had more interaction. As things stand, it felt a bit too rushed, and led to bad writing decisions such as Jessica following Matt into an alley and photographing him without him noticing. Like, they obviously shot that scene so she could confront him about it later, but the way they went about it was very poor and didn't make an ounce of in-universe sense. One thing I really, really didn't like about the show is the collapse of a massive skyscraper in the middle of Manhattan being portrayed as No Big Deal. It may have been an empty building, but something like that happening IRL, especially if it involved C4 explosives, would have made national news and would have had some serious consequences. When the WTC towers collapsed, there was a shitload of collateral damage to surrounding buildings, some of which collapsed too. Here though everyone just shrugs, no official investigations are launched and Trish is like "oh well, another day in New York City!  "
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Aug 20, 2017 08:12
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I'm just under the impression they covered up the skyscraper collapse with the "illegal construction" story Patsy was giving on her show at the end.
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Aug 20, 2017 08:29
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So some questions this show raises that screw up daredevil: If the Hand had been passing the land with the dragon bones underneath to themselves for centuries, why did Nobu have to buy it back in Daredevil season 1? What is a Black Sky, because amnesiac zombie hardly warrants the concern Stick gave it. How come the zombie ninjas in DD season 2 didn't have heartbeats, and why isn't that a thing for everyone else that gets brought back? Were they wasting dragon bones on nameless mooks? So did Harold Meachum have another deal going on that kept bringing him back to life (I dunno, the way the Hand works they might have been dumping dragon bones in a lake). Is that what the heartless zombie ninjas had going on? How come everyone follows Highlander rules and cuts heads off people to kill immortals/resurrecting characters? Also I love how if Danny had just stayed in Kun Lun none of this would have happened. Goddamn Danny sucks.
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Aug 20, 2017 08:30
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trash pile occasionally elevated by the strength of some of it's casting
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Aug 20, 2017 08:42
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enraged_camel posted:One thing I really, really didn't like about the show is the collapse of a massive skyscraper in the middle of Manhattan being portrayed as No Big Deal. It may have been an empty building, but something like that happening IRL, especially if it involved C4 explosives, would have made national news and would have had some serious consequences. When the WTC towers collapsed, there was a shitload of collateral damage to surrounding buildings, some of which collapsed too. Here though everyone just shrugs, no official investigations are launched and Trish is like "oh well, another day in New York City! Definitely should have been news and everything, but the architect helpfully marked on his blueprints exactly where to plant the explosives to created a controlled demolition. As a result there was no debris to his surrounding buildings as everything fell into the giant hole.
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Aug 20, 2017 09:00
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I hope in a later episode of Luke Cage or Defenders or whatever Danny calls Luke up and goes nuts like 'Yeah, so I've been reading up on what I missed while I was in Kun Lun and apparently aliens attacked New York and a God, a Supersoldier from the 40's, a billionaire tech genius, an Olympic archer and and angry buff green giant that'd make you look like Peter Dinklage fought them off. You're telling me that happened but a dragon is too hard to believe?'
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Aug 20, 2017 10:32
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RareAcumen posted:I hope in a later episode of Luke Cage or Defenders or whatever Danny calls Luke up and goes nuts like 'Yeah, so I've been reading up on what I missed while I was in Kun Lun and apparently aliens attacked New York and a God, a Supersoldier from the 40's, a billionaire tech genius, an Olympic archer and and angry buff green giant that'd make you look like Peter Dinklage fought them off. You're telling me that happened but a dragon is too hard to believe?' Just wait till the talking raccoon that gets piggy back rides from a walking plant shows up. This show needs to stop being embarrassed by its supernatural aspects.
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Aug 20, 2017 10:50
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All episodes It really seems like the third season of Daredevil will have the arc where Danny puts on Matt's costume in his absence. Also I guess that scene in the trailer with Punisher was just a tag for his show because he doesn't show up at all here.
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Aug 20, 2017 13:32
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Emerson Cod posted:All episodes It really seems like the third season of Daredevil will have the arc where Danny puts on Matt's costume in his absence. Also I guess that scene in the trailer with Punisher was just a tag for his show because he doesn't show up at all here. Can Danny fight while blind? Daredevil's mask covers his eyes.
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Aug 20, 2017 13:45
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The red eyepieces of the costume don't block actual vision any more than Spider-Man's mask or Iron Man's helmet. Or else everyone who ever gets a good look at Daredevil would immediately think, "Gee, that's a blind guy." Same for his original black bandana, in fact. BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 14:01 on Aug 20, 2017 |
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Aug 20, 2017 13:59
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Firstborn posted:Plus I think I saw her punch a guy There is that part where she threw a car at Elektra. Would have solved a whole lot of problems if someone had just killed Elektra then and there while JJ walked past smirking.
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Aug 20, 2017 14:29
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I love Gao's smiling eyes. She has a real "that's nice dear" look when she is telling you that you are poo poo.
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Aug 20, 2017 15:08
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I know that the whole "five fingers of The Hand" thing was just to try to salvage something from the mess the Iron Fist had made of it, but it seems like they missed something really obvious. Five fingers, four heroes. Each hero defeats one of the fingers, and then they all have to use teamwork to take down the fifth. Then we could've gotten cool fights instead of everybody standing in a room swinging at mooks while the camera moves around and cuts really fast.
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Aug 20, 2017 15:30
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Don't think you can blame the hand being lame on Iron Fist. They've made a complete mess of it throughout Daredevil, Iron Fist and this, it's baffling since they presumably had the broad strokes planned out since the end of Daredevil season 1 but their motivations seem completely different in each show (and in the individual seasons of Daredevil). The whole Black Sky thing is especially bizarre, wasn't the one Stick killed in Season 1 of Daredevil a little kid?
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Aug 20, 2017 15:38
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I think my most favorite wtf moment was during e7 or 8 when we finally get 3 of the defenders against 3 of the fingers... and then the fight immediately becomes Luke and Jess against Gao while Matt handles two fingers by himself. Like holy poo poo I know Gao may be super strong but her thrashing two of the super powered people while Matt deal with the 2 non super fingers felt both ridiculously one sided and unfair at the same time. I would have liked to see more synergies or them switching opponents to give each other an advantage or room to breathe.
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Aug 20, 2017 15:38
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thebardyspoon posted:Don't think you can blame the hand being lame on Iron Fist. They've made a complete mess of it throughout Daredevil, Iron Fist and this, it's baffling since they presumably had the broad strokes planned out since the end of Daredevil season 1 but their motivations seem completely different in each show (and in the individual seasons of Daredevil). The whole Black Sky thing is especially bizarre, wasn't the one Stick killed in Season 1 of Daredevil a little kid? Yeah I think the kid was the first, but by daredevil season 2, the hand figured out the replacement for the black sky. Guess stick figured so long as there was one, and it was one person he trained, he had a better chance of protecting the world.
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Aug 20, 2017 15:42
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thebardyspoon posted:Don't think you can blame the hand being lame on Iron Fist. They've made a complete mess of it throughout Daredevil, Iron Fist and this, it's baffling since they presumably had the broad strokes planned out since the end of Daredevil season 1 but their motivations seem completely different in each show (and in the individual seasons of Daredevil). The whole Black Sky thing is especially bizarre, wasn't the one Stick killed in Season 1 of Daredevil a little kid? The Black Sky wasn't handled well, and the revelation of what it was sucked, yeah. But Iron Fist making Gao part of the hand and introducing rival Hand sects was terrible. Gao being Hand didn't make sense from what we saw in Daredevil. The Hand was mystic Japanese ninjas who had some kinda weird magic religion. OK, great. Also, they have an unrelated China branch who they work alongside of but never interact with that just sells cocaine. And they have a third branch, also operating in New York, that runs a brainwash summer camp for some reason and fights the China Hand for some reason.
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Aug 20, 2017 15:52
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If The Hand is a giant globe spanning organization that has existed for thousands of years, and is capable of destroying New York City and completely covering it up because they have influence literally everywhere, why the gently caress was the Kingpin able to order them around?
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Aug 20, 2017 15:54
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Guy Goodbody posted:If The Hand is a giant globe spanning organization that has existed for thousands of years, and is capable of destroying New York City and completely covering it up because they have influence literally everywhere, why the gently caress was the Kingpin able to order them around? Because it doesn't matter? Because when you're adapting disjointed comic book stories into shared universes, poo poo inevitably doesn't hold up. The MCU suffers the same problem, character arcs barely exist in them, Iron Man's arc has whiplash at this point, and the consequences of their actions yoyo all over the chart to serve the whims of plot. Structurally they're already atop shaky ground, and then their existence is an extension of various character beats and plot lines throughout the myriad of runs of the comic books. It's hard to end up with a consistent endpoint when you start from that.
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Aug 20, 2017 16:17
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The only thing that I didn't believe, in this show with magical resurrection and ninjas, is that None of them would be in any legal trouble for blowing up a loving building. Like, holy poo poo, there's no legal loophole of "Well, okay, you killed some bad people, therefore your actual crimes are gonna get ignored, loving lock them all up for terrorism!Cran posted:Something I was thinking about Stick. Outside the moment of execution, no one gave a poo poo that he died. It's questionable if Matt was perturbed over that more than the fact that it was Elektra killing someone. He really was a total rear end in a top hat who endeared himself to exactly no one, and everybody just kind of moving on without a word was the slightest bit cathartic. Nah, Matt totally went all Oh my god, they killed Stick! and had a mini freakout about it when he woke up. WampaLord fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Aug 20, 2017 |
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Aug 20, 2017 16:32
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It was less oh my God they killed Stick and more oh my God SHE killed Stick. The freakout wasn't that Stick died. It's that Elektra killed him.
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Aug 20, 2017 17:12
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WampaLord posted:The only thing that I didn't believe, in this show with magical resurrection and ninjas, is that None of them would be in any legal trouble for blowing up a loving building. Like, holy poo poo, there's no legal loophole of "Well, okay, you killed some bad people, therefore your actual crimes are gonna get ignored, loving lock them all up for terrorism! This is America. We basically let white billionaires do whatever they want.
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Aug 20, 2017 17:39
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Push El Burrito posted:This is America. We basically let white billionaires do whatever they want. Fair point, but you know that if Misty wasn't there the cops were going to shoot everyone but Danny and call it a day. Then Danny gets community service after his legal team does its job. I guess Luke would get away, cause of the whole bulletproof deal.
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Aug 20, 2017 17:42
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Maluco Marinero posted:Because it doesn't matter? Because when you're adapting disjointed comic book stories into shared universes, poo poo inevitably doesn't hold up. The MCU suffers the same problem, character arcs barely exist in them, Iron Man's arc has whiplash at this point, and the consequences of their actions yoyo all over the chart to serve the whims of plot. Just because a certain amount of wonkiness is inevitable in a shared universe doesn't mean that it's illegitimate to complain about particularly egregious examples
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Aug 20, 2017 17:46
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