|
I eagerly await him turning into a different kind of two-dimensional strawman in order to make him look bad compared to whatever new guy will be the defining male figure in the Strong Female Protagonist(TM)'s life.
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 05:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 06:01 |
|
|
Nuns with Guns posted:I'd be comfortable betting that if you got people shitposting in the thread now to make sincere speculations of how Clevin's relationship with Allison will go, nobody would say it will be idyllic or any other rosy strawman. The relationship feeling boring and unearned doesn't mean the comic will end with them transported to Equestria for their wedding as the pony king and queen. Oh, this'll be good for a laugh. I'll give it a shot.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 05:47
|
|
|
Reach Clevin through violence, child.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 05:51
|
|
|
getting into an argument about a loving webcomic is the real rap sheet and my shame is SFP
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 05:58
|
|
|
I need better self control is what I'm sayin'
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 06:05
|
|
|
Moved my response about Clevin to the Clevin megathread.
Elysiume fucked around with this message at 06:40 on Aug 20, 2017 |
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 06:36
|
|
|
Ok so which is it? Lamps, you're the Clevin expert right? Explain Clevin to me.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 06:40
|
|
|
it's also a really dumb name, like worse than melvin somehow sorry to the clevins and melvins out there, but let's be real here, those are some nerd rear end names
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 06:40
|
|
|
  
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 06:41
|
|
|
The thread was already souring a good deal on the comic pre-Clevin. He's just a symptom of the comic's decline, not the cause.
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 06:58
|
|
|
It's probably best to move discussion back over to that thread; we don't really need two threads about SFP on the forum.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 07:13
|
|
|
Pavlov posted:Ok so which is it? SFP has never been what you'd call a comic (it is a superhero webcomic, after all). But its early chapters aren't in anyway offensive, and you can see the writer and artist improving themselves after an early work like this, until you get to the lesbian Wolverine Jesus organ donor storyline. But to be fair, it's still something you can see them recovering from. But then the rape chapter happens. It's an all around terrible piece of sequential art, but more than that, things start to change. It's not just that the comic is in colour. The characters and the world become rounder and softer, and lack the very literal edginess of the previous chapters. And, fittingly, the whole story becomes softer, like a rotten fruit. Everything turns into a mockery of itself. Characters have months-long conversations about ethics because of the comic's update schedule and the writer's lack of discipline. A twenty-foot tall murder machine who is slowly dying talks about how Hermione is the best character in the Harry Potter books, and wonders why the books aren't about her. A mutant woman screeches about safe spaces, in a scene that's not intended as comedic. There's a general infusion of feel-good nonsense that clashes with the superficially high-minded storytelling.   The protagonist metaphorically rapes someone, after the chapter trying to argue how poorly sexual abuse and violence are handled in America. She possesses Herculean strength, and effortlessly wrestles the man into submission, telling him that she'll do what he wants or the consequences will be dire. She calls him "sweetheart" after he desperately screams for help. Afterwards she goes and meets Clevin O'Toole, and they kiss. This strange, horrific epoch of the comic begins with the chapter that introduces Clevin O'Toole. The first four chapters are the Before Clevin Era, and with Chapter Five (In Which Rape Is Discussed) we entered the Clevin Era.  Clevin O'Toole is a stand-in for the average Millenial dude. He's introduced as a gangly nerd with those impenetrable white glasses you see in cartoons, comics, and anime. His contributions to the narrative at this point include trying to ask the main character out, being friends with a rapist, screaming at the sight of said rapist friend's corpse, and then posthumously disowning him. When this chapter was being posted in the bad webcomics thread, SA user Scalded Schlong typed out the word "Clevin". He wanted us all to pay attention to what a loving stupid name it was. And we had to agree, it was a pretty loving stupid name. But it was not just a moronic name, it quickly became a kind of incantation or ritual phrase. You could simply post "Clevin" and be understood perfectly, because those two awkward syllables expressed perfectly our deep befuddlement at the unfathomable stupidity of a webcomic.  And, as if to spite us, it turns out that Clevin sticks around in the story and becomes more and more prominent. He no longer has those impenetrable glasses, we can now see his eyes and they are full of desperation. His frame has shrunk, which makes him look genuinely pathetic even if you don't notice the shift. He slinks into the frame, awkwardly asking the Strong Female Protagonist out, but is sidelined by a charming but arrogant libertarian millionaire. He's such a nice guy, though! He plays in a band for a charity event, and everyone like his song. He works at a movie theatre and talks about after-credit scenes in the big franchise movie. You can't tell if he's supposed to be a wish-fulfilment stand-in like Jimmy Olsen or an caricatured excoriation of Millenial masculine inadequacy. After metaphorically-raping the libertarian, the Strong Female Protagonist kisses Clevin and starts going out with him. In the next chapter he sighs and whines why he didn't mention him in a thank-you speech. The Strong Female Protagonist is hurt and apologises. She tells him that she loves him, but stumbles over her words, as if catching herself doing something wrong. After all, who in the world could love Clevin?  What you have to understand that after his rapist friend's throat was slit, Clevin has no real role in the story. He's not a a dude-in-distress who needs rescuing, or a sidekick who helps save the day. He's not even a credible love interest, because it's completely incomprehensible why someone who can break mountains and match wits with supervillains even registers the existence of the Milk-Toast Elemental. "There's just something about this incredibly weak male lead," she seems to think. Every time you see his character, you start wondering exactly what he's doing in the comic, yet somehow he takes over scenes. He's a character without purpose, an organ without function that invades the body of the story. Clevin is a narrative tumour. All becomes Clevin. Clevin. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Aug 22, 2017 |
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 09:39
|
|
|
God the artstyle change makes everything look so safe and bland but it's super not helped by the artist just not remembering or checking what things look like. Monster Mash's arm blade in the older page is forearm down and the newer page has it just below the shoulder, but only for 1 panel. The dark sunken eyes have become dark thick eyebrows on an otherwise hairless character. His teeth are now all straight and even. Allison lost her cheekbones and her chin and the ability to express emotions other than open mouth smiling and a 100 yard stare.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 09:53
|
|
|
BravestOfTheLamps posted:When this chapter was being posted in the bad webcomics thread, SA user Scalded Schlong typed out the word "Clevin". He wanted us all to pay attention what a loving stupid name it was. Thanks for reminding me of what DOWN JACKET FETISH's original username was, I forgot and it was bothering me.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 10:00
|
|
|
Pavlov posted:I dropped it before Clevin even showed up, so I never quite understood his infamy. The only infamy is that BravestOfTheLamps chose him to be his webcomics threadshit focus, practically at random. All of the Clevin stuff stems from him, and 99% of the Clevin posts are by him. There's no other real infamy.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 10:58
|
|
|
MikeJF posted:The only infamy is that BravestOfTheLamps chose him to be his webcomics threadshit focus, practically at random. All of the Clevin stuff stems from him, and 99% of the Clevin posts are by him. There's no other real infamy. If you check a good webcomic thread (the Cool Crew Chat one, the SFP thread), you'll notice that i am merely one apostle of His glory.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 11:05
|
|
|
i can admit to being a clevin acolyte due to a series of dreams in which i was tattooing his names inside the anuses of various friends of mine, long story short the dreams were real and that's my scene irl now
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 11:48
|
|
|
Please shitpost in this thread more often
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 11:51
|
|
|
PMush Perfect posted:I eagerly await him turning into a different kind of two-dimensional strawman in order to make him look bad compared to whatever new guy will be the defining male figure in the Strong Female Protagonist(TM)'s life. A Wizard of Goatse posted:On the road to enlightenment Allison must recognize and defeat the ideological evils of each of her boyfriends in turn, from the social engineering and conspiracy-mongering of fascist Patrick to the narcissistic platitudes of trustfund libertarian Dark Clevin to the infantilism and moral vacuity of liberal Light Clevin, on and on until she arrives at the truth of Juche
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 14:06
|
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:God the artstyle change makes everything look so safe and bland but it's super not helped by the artist just not remembering or checking what things look like. The early b&w art has a kind of grimy 90s edge to it that complemented the kind of directionless frustration the main character felt. Everything becoming softer and more colorful changes the tone of the comic. Also it made the artist's frequent goofy art gaffes more obvious (especially when she fucks up eyes).
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 15:09
|
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:Monster Mash's arm blade in the older page is forearm down and the newer page has it just below the shoulder, but only for 1 panel. I think you're actually completely misreading the anatomy on that panel, but that weird energy cuff creates some bad tangents, so I don't really blame you
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 16:11
|
|
|
Nuns with Guns posted:The early b&w art has a kind of grimy 90s edge to it that complemented the kind of directionless frustration the main character felt. Everything becoming softer and more colorful changes the tone of the comic. Also it made the artist's frequent goofy art gaffes more obvious (especially when she fucks up eyes). If the color shift were more meaningful in a Clerks or Pleasantville kind of way, it wouldn't be as bad. Show a change in Allison's perspective as it has happened and she has found a cause to rally behind. I actually miss the old style, it represents a time when the comic was good enough to like in spite any flaws, and not as pretentious as it has become.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 16:16
|
|
|
PMush Perfect posted:Please shitpost in this thread more often
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 16:20
|
|
|
I appreciate that Lamps post.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 16:20
|
|
|
Clevin is the ultimate, the pinnacle, the perfect Godking mast on the ship of "lovely Writer Trying To Writer A Perfect Soft Boy Boyfriend". Here's two recent pages from the comic   For context she's giving a self-congratulatory speech for the opening gala of her new non-profit org. that does...something to help....someone. How you can write this and not have this character immediately thrown into the sun I'll never understand. Of course people that still think the comic is good, the kind of people that post in the official comments section of the comic, really really defended Clevin on this one so you can imagine exactly what kind of person exists in this fanbase. Remember these pages next time someone cries about 'shitposting' in the other thread. Like all gods, we should murder Clevin. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Aug 20, 2017 |
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 17:33
|
|
|
Man, all I can actually remember about this comic is 'the dog died and that made me very sad, because I like dogs.'
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 17:35
|
|
|
Mors Rattus posted:Man, all I can actually remember about this comic is 'the dog died and that made me very sad, because I like dogs.' Dogs are good and there should be more comics about them, and fewer about neurotically self-obsessed twentysomething city bougies A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Aug 20, 2017 |
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 17:43
|
|
|
The Nebbish With A Thousand Faces
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 17:47
|
|
|
I'm still convinced that Clevin's mediocrity is going to be addressed/ a plot point later on.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 18:09
|
|
|
stab stabby posted:I'm still convinced that Clevin's mediocrity is going to be addressed/ a plot point later on. Just like that homeless guy that Allison threw in the trash who said soon his master would return! Just like [insert every plot point before the comic's soft era].
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 18:12
|
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:Clevin is the ultimate, the pinnacle, the perfect Godking mast on the ship of "lovely Writer Trying To Writer A Perfect Soft Boy Boyfriend". The thing is, it's not even wrong to make a point about how emotional labor to support a lover is worthy of acknowledgement. Where it falls flat here is, like everything with Clevin, it's completely unearned. It's kind of hard to pin down, but the point where they officially become a couple is probably this page at the end of the last chapter. The chapter ends, and apparently a timeskip of some sort happens with a small montage of Allison setting up things for her startup. Then the party happens with the speech and Clevin whines at the end. It's not like there was an extended story about getting the start-up off the ground, filing all the papers, making calls and networking, developing an app because I think it's supposed to be Uber but for rape victims guarded by superheroes, with Clevin in the background boiling pots of spaghetti and tea (multiple at once, obviously) while looking sad and ignored. It's a hasty retcon. It's cheap and emotionally manipulative and honestly we have no context for how poorly Allison treated Clevin besides his own words. And Allison vindicates him fully. The comic deserves being made fun of and poo poo on because it's prioritizing his hurt feelings over making any effort to show the work either has put into this business or their own relationship.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 18:19
|
|
|
The thing to understand is that the comic was always, fundamentally, about Clevin
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 18:20
|
|
|
Nuns with Guns posted:The thing is, it's not even wrong to make a point about how emotional labor to support a lover is worthy of acknowledgement. Where it falls flat here is, like everything with Clevin, it's completely unearned. It's kind of hard to pin down, but the point where they officially become a couple is probably this page at the end of the last chapter. The chapter ends, and apparently a timeskip of some sort happens with a small montage of Allison setting up things for her startup. Then the party happens with the speech and Clevin whines at the end. It's not like there was an extended story about getting the start-up off the ground, filing all the papers, making calls and networking, developing an app because I think it's supposed to be Uber but for rape victims guarded by superheroes, with Clevin in the background boiling pots of spaghetti and tea (multiple at once, obviously) while looking sad and ignored. It's a hasty retcon. It's cheap and emotionally manipulative and honestly we have no context for how poorly Allison treated Clevin besides his own words. And Allison vindicates him fully. I dunno, the speech itself is also equally garbage. While there's nothing wrong with someone in a relationship saying 'Hey, I wish you'd say something to thank me for being as supportive as I could be as I'm feeling unappreciated.' the way he brings it up is the most soft fuccboi bullshit that a lot of the comic has become. "I...I made you a lot of pasta!" might as well be "I carried that printer for you!" except we all know clevin is too delicate to lift anything over 10 pounds, lest his soft body gain any definition.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 18:26
|
|
|
Clevin's whiny ramble is pathetic, too, don't get me wrong. Every part of it from the setup to the delivery falls flat, even if the essential point is valid in a better context.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 18:30
|
|
|
I appreciate the clevin effortposting (clevinposting), I've been tuning out SFP since pre-clevin and was completely oblivious to where this clevin thing was coming from.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 18:47
|
|
|
BravestOfTheLamps posted:Clevin. Ok, I think I get it. Also turns out I did read up to the first scene of Clevin on the roof. I just forgot about him because he just seemed like a one-off bit character, which kind of reinforces your point.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 19:35
|
|
|
idonotlikepeas posted:It's probably best to move discussion back over to that thread; we don't really need two threads about SFP on the forum. Too late. All is Clevin.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 19:51
|
|
|
I didn't have to obsessively read CAD to appreciate a Of something I did obsess over, Lamps, what was your "I only have excellent ideas " avatar from? The illustration is maddeningly familiar, and I cannot place it though it's probably something from my childhood.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 23:28
|
|
|
Bell_ posted:Of something I did obsess over, Lamps, what was your "I only have excellent ideas " avatar from? The illustration is maddeningly familiar, and I cannot place it though it's probably something from my childhood. It's Little My from the Moomins.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 23:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 06:01 |
|
|
The Moomin comics are fantastic, by the way, and everyone should grab the print collections or at least find some scans online to read
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 23:57
|
|