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Rodatose posted:Domestically, yes The nice part about capitalism is the built in survivor bias. Obviously the list of capitalist countries that fail don't count as failures against capitalism! You have to count the successes only and capitalism is explicitly the reason...but only if things work out.
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Aug 20, 2017 20:00
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galagazombie posted:I don't want to be the "Truth is in the middle" guy, but most of the reason the west could handle those disruptions was because of post Great Depression governmental oversight and regulation. Unrestrained Capitalism produced frequent panics and depressions of horrifying scale before State power clamped down on it. Really a mix of ideas is needed to form a stable economy that enriches more than just the elite. That and the still super recent recession that hosed up the global economy on a massive sacle as well.
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Aug 20, 2017 20:01
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Deteriorata posted:Hmm. It's too bad we have no idea how communism handled environmental issues... No offense, but you're pretty seriously misinterpreting my post if you think I'm advocating for communism as a solution to climate change.
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Aug 20, 2017 20:02
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Mordekai posted:Sorry, didn't see that. But did they show up? insofar as the nominally free speech rally saw any meaningful amount of attendance it had a good many people who claim not to be white supremacists but sure are concerned about the ongoing oppression of white Americans
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Aug 20, 2017 20:05
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Granted, even if the answer is in the middle, the question always becomes what it looks like and what the nation you are talking about can achieve. In the West, Scandinavian social democracy would likely be more appealing than Chinese industrial planning but in Africa, they are just hoping to get the "industrialization ladder" in the first place.
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Aug 20, 2017 20:05
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Forgall posted:They are worth nothing if nobody's buying. Sure, but I think the example of using $10 in materials to build a $5 product is more closely related to the Capitalist idea of a loss leader.
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Aug 20, 2017 20:05
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Paradoxish posted:No offense, but you're pretty seriously misinterpreting my post if you think I'm advocating for communism as a solution to climate change. No, I was noting the false equivocation that we don't know how communism would have dealt with global climate change. It wasn't specifically you, it's just that you were like the third person to say it. We know pretty clearly how communism would have handled it, since we know how they handled all other environmental issues - they would have ignored it and blamed counter-revolutionaries.
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Aug 20, 2017 20:06
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:That and the still super recent recession that hosed up the global economy on a massive sacle as well. Which was caused by the government deciding to stop regulating things in our Post-Reagan era of "destroy all government control over the economy".
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Aug 20, 2017 20:06
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galagazombie posted:I don't want to be the "Truth is in the middle" guy, but most of the reason the west could handle those disruptions was because of post Great Depression governmental oversight and regulation. Unrestrained Capitalism produced frequent panics and depressions of horrifying scale before State power clamped down on it. Really a mix of ideas is needed to form a stable economy that enriches more than just the elite. And that's probably closest to the truth. A mix of capitalism and socialism seems to work pretty well. The highs aren't as high as a less regulated market, but the lows are no where as low either. Communism though has been 100% bad.
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Aug 20, 2017 20:07
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Here at the confederate flag protest and counter protest in Hattiesburg, ms I count 13 on the confederate flag side and about 110 on our side. Heavy police presence on all sides keeping us separate. I'll have pictures later when I'm not on my phone but it's really cool that this is happening here. Of course there is also a trump flag amongst their forest of confederate flags, ms state flags and don't tread on me flags.
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Aug 20, 2017 20:07
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Is Venezuela not just transparently a kleptocracy? In hindsight, it seems to not be a serious attempt at socialism; it used nationalization mostly to seize foreign investments or the investments of political rivals, and used price controls rather than comprehensive redistribution of wealth (placing a burden of redistribution on the middle class). The ruling class seemed to come out ahead, and in the very short term.
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Aug 20, 2017 20:08
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Gumbercules posted:Is Venezuela not just transparently a kleptocracy? In hindsight, it seems to not be a serious attempt at socialism; it used nationalization mostly to seize foreign investments or the investments of political rivals, and used price controls rather than comprehensive redistribution of wealth (placing a burden of redistribution on the middle class). The ruling class seemed to come out ahead, and in the very short term. It probably started as something better-intentioned but at this point it's a catastrophe that doesn't feel confined to any one political label.
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Aug 20, 2017 20:11
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Deteriorata posted:No, I was noting the false equivocation that we don't know how communism would have dealt with global climate change. It wasn't specifically you, it's just that you were like the third person to say it. We know pretty clearly how communism would have handled it, since we know how they handled all other environmental issues - they would have ignored it and blamed counter-revolutionaries. Climate change doesn't really fit the mold of most environmental issues, though. We both know how to solve it and have the means to do so, but our systems as they exist actively work against that goal. It's the kind of thing that would be relatively easy to deal with from a top-down, centrally planned position. The kind of solutions that would produce would also arguably result in a lot of suffering on their own.
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Aug 20, 2017 20:11
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I'm just going to interject that if your economy goes through waves like natural biomes of predators and prey, it's not sufficiently complex enough.
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Aug 20, 2017 20:13
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Trabisnikof posted:You can claim global communism would have destroyed the climate, but the only evidence we have is that global capitalism certainly can and did destroy the climate. Ah yes, the glorious environmentalism of the Soviet Regime! They Soviets didn't give a gently caress about their own people and murdered them by the millions but you think they would give a gently caress about the climate? Oxxidation posted:It probably started as something better-intentioned but at this point it's a catastrophe that doesn't feel confined to any one political label. It was always a Kleptocracy. Huge Chavez's daughter didn't end up with at least $5 billion in her off shore bank accounts by accident. Xae fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Aug 20, 2017 |
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Aug 20, 2017 20:14
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Now that you guys have decided communism and capitalism are both as bad as each other we can finally get on with doing absolutely nothing.
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Aug 20, 2017 20:16
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Depends on if you're talking about the theoretical communist utopia that has never been practiced ever imo
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Aug 20, 2017 20:16
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Can we make rules in the Trump thread that debating communism, Hillary, or Bernie is a sixer?
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Aug 20, 2017 20:17
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Xae posted:
Hugo would have been so disappointed to see his daughter betray the revolution like that. 
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Aug 20, 2017 20:18
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Gumbel2Gumbel posted:Can we make rules in the Trump thread that debating communism, Hillary, or Bernie is a sixer? hillary bad communism good Bernie would have won
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Aug 20, 2017 20:21
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Gumbel2Gumbel posted:Can we make rules in the Trump thread that debating communism, Hillary, or Bernie is a sixer? Literally no one is reading enough of the posts in this thread to moderate it that closely, it gets like 3000 posts in 6 hours.
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Aug 20, 2017 20:21
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International Scandinavia, imo.
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Aug 20, 2017 20:21
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Hugo would have been so disappointed to see his daughter betray the revolution like that. Yes, I'm sure he had no idea and she managed to accrue at least 5 Billion dollars without Chavez being aware at all.
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Aug 20, 2017 20:22
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enraged_camel posted:hillary bad also make multiple offenses multiplicative rather than additive 9 day probes for a hat trick
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Aug 20, 2017 20:23
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I'm Hugo Chavez's sash
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Aug 20, 2017 20:25
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Zore posted:Yes, I'm sure he had no idea and she managed to accrue at least 5 Billion dollars without Chavez being aware at all. i may not have been being serious considered putting a disclaimer because, you know, it's not that big a jump from stuff I've seen people say unironically
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Aug 20, 2017 20:27
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Xae posted:The Capitalists didn't give a gently caress about their own people and murdered them by the millions but you think they would give a gently caress about the climate?
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Aug 20, 2017 20:27
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Aug 20, 2017 20:28
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What subreddit is that Lol die Bart die
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Aug 20, 2017 20:37
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Reddit is literally just millions of sock puppets making disingenuous arguments at each other forever. People intentionally misinterpreting things to benefit the viewpoint they already have to scream into their echo chambers full of people who already thought those things too. And people trust that site...
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Aug 20, 2017 20:38
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enraged_camel posted:hillary bad
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Aug 20, 2017 20:40
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Lightning Lord posted:What subreddit is that The_Donald
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Aug 20, 2017 20:40
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That last post is especially stupid. Just for your info: "Es lebe die" means "long live the" And the "rote Einheitsfront" is pretty much that organisation itself.
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Aug 20, 2017 20:42
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SaturdayKnight posted:Reddit is literally just millions of sock puppets making disingenuous arguments at each other forever. People intentionally misinterpreting things to benefit the viewpoint they already have to scream into their echo chambers full of people who already thought those things too. And people trust that site... basically the same as here except lowtax wishes people were registering millions of sock puppets
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Aug 20, 2017 20:43
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Die_Donald
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Aug 20, 2017 20:43
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SaturdayKnight posted:Reddit is literally just millions of sock puppets making disingenuous arguments at each other forever. People intentionally misinterpreting things to benefit the viewpoint they already have to scream into their echo chambers full of people who already thought those things too. And people trust that site... they're all trying to be Ken M because they think that's the epitome of funny
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Aug 20, 2017 20:44
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Both Hillary and Obama are indeed doing great work here by, with great effort I have no doubt, keeping themselves out of this entirely. There are plenty of people around to condemn, and the endless distractions are really the worst problem facing any kind of movement on the many Trump-related issues that exist.
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Aug 20, 2017 20:44
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White Supremascist talking points right now: -Banon is better on Breibert and this is all to plan -Fighting over if Trump praised antifa yesterday or praised the free speech rally -The left overplayed their hand yesterday by being violent and now everyone is on their side -Charollettesville was a false flag democrat op done by Jason Kessler who is a secret democrat -Trump has actually fullfilled ALL his campaign promises and that's why Banon left They've been posting these a lot:    I think they're desperate for a win and are deluding themselves.
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Aug 20, 2017 21:07
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https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/899355968852680706 The "Afghanistan and South Asia" part is a bit of a tell.
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Aug 20, 2017 21:08
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They're also talking a lot about how the rallies are hurting them more and wondering openly why they even did them. They're asking questions like "we were winning the culture War! Why did we do this? We just gave ammo to the enemy! What did yesterday do? It just gave the enemy an win!" They seem shook af.
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Aug 20, 2017 21:10
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