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quote:ZyuRanger is not well liked for its script work or story.
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Aug 23, 2017 05:08
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Craptacular! posted:It seems he was only writing like one episode of Zyuranger and like two or three of Timeranger, if the PR/Sentai wiki is to be believed. He was involved somewhat on seasons liked for their story (Dairanger) but nothing anywhere Jetman. I'm not sure what you mean by 'nothing anywhere Jetman' but this is a strange hill to die on. Please don't do this man, because you're not going to win this one. Inoue is a poo poo writer who got lucky a few times or adapted something of quality. Also Are you trying to imply that he had nothing to do with Jetman? The one where, I believe, he came back to write the Jetman episode of Gokaiger for? Because if so https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toshiki_Inoue In 1991, he was the head writer of the Toei tokusatsu series Chōjin Sentai Jetman, part of the popular Super Sentai franchise. EDIT: And while I'm there, and editing this- yes indeed he was the one to write that Gokaiger episode because he is the main writer of Jetman and furthermore "Following the conclusion of the TV series, the series main screenwriter, Toshiki Inoue, wrote a trilogy of Jetman novels from 1992 to 1995 that retold the events of the TV series. The novels were written specifically for adult fans of the TV series and included mature content, such as detailed descriptions of sexual intercourse between Ryū and Rie, Gai and Kaori, and Radiguet and Maria. Empress Jūza, a one-off villain in the series, had an extended role while the Dimensional Beasts and giant robots were eliminated, with the Jetmen fighting humans subjected to the Vyram's experiments instead.[4][5][6]" Hey, what we needed in Jetman was more of Gai loving people, right? Thanks Inoue! Burkion fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Aug 23, 2017 |
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Aug 23, 2017 05:23
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You read it backwards, or I wrote it wrong. I'm phone-posting from a moving automobile, so autocorrect errors and and poor context is in large supply. I said he had way more involvement in Jetman than any other season, he was on some seasons with stories like Dai but only to the extent of three episodes or so. The only way I'm dying on a hill is I do sort of morbidly wonder if you're applying 2017 Tumblr Ethics to a 30 year old piece of media, but I intend to watch Jetman sometime soon so I guess I'll find out for myself.
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Aug 23, 2017 05:28
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Friend, I have a lot of respect for you as a poster. Don't accuse me of all people of having tumblr ethics. You don't know me well enough to know why that's incredibly stupid. Here is the legit fact of Jetman, and specifically, Gai and Kaori's relationship. She does not want anything to do with him because she wants to ride the Red Ranger, he wants to gently caress her really bad. She's with the group in a mall, he corners her. She tries to escape in an elevator, he forces his way in and invades her personal space. He stops at the last moment and she gives him mixed signals because Inoue. It's skeevy as gently caress, it's within the first ten episodes, and it has zero place being in a kids show about a bunch of dumbasses fighting living kitchen sinks and evil buses. And it's from the same man who would later write them loving in his own without restrictions version of the story, and later had the lead female character from Faiz get raped in similar novels. It's a thing with the guy. EDIT: Forgot the context for Gai as a womanizer who sleeps around, as established earlier in the series. For children.
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Aug 23, 2017 05:35
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Ok. I do respect that you love some really, really old Japanese TV; and I was reasonably certain we weren't going to have a moral relativism debate about whether or not a TV show older than many posters from a country with a poor civil rights record should be accepted at face value. I'll assume it must REALLY be that scummy. Makes sense, after Liveman I assume the writers room was on coke in the 80s.
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Aug 23, 2017 05:49
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Hello I caught up on Kyuranger and Dark Naga is great.  
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Aug 23, 2017 05:53
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I'm seen tumblr blogs who spend almost all their time complaining about how sexist most of hesei phase 2 is, except for Ghost which they think is the best series ever, not have that much of a problem with jetman. I can't say I think they make very much sense to me or are as logical about things as burkion.... actually I had to stop following them because they were negative about things that made very little sense and their jokes made even less sense... but they exist. (I could tolerate loving ghost, but hating ex-aid every time it has character conflict or does something interesting is too much) Actually at least one of the more reasonable ones who likes Ex-Aid turned me on to how the second half of Drive treated its female characters kind of horribly, not just Kiriko but Rinna being mocked harder for being unmarried, which I'll keep in mind if I ever actually tell anyone irl I watch Toku. I think the best is to just watch Jetman yourself and make your own judgment. I'm only on episode 16 and might return at some point, and mostly thought its trespasses were amusing. I'm not watching it with kids and for the bus episode alone I wouldn't show it to them. Maybe I'm treating it like an [adult swim] sentai though I'm not sure my appreciation is all ironic. It feels very unfiltered and like it's making mistakes and sometimes a children's show becoming an 80's horror movie and then remembering it's a children's show before the episode ends like an internet creepypasta, which is the kind of thing in toku I'm into.
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Aug 23, 2017 06:10
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Hemingway To Go! posted:Actually at least one of the more reasonable ones who likes Ex-Aid turned me on to how the second half of Drive treated its female characters kind of horribly, not just Kiriko but Rinna being mocked harder for being unmarried, which I'll keep in mind if I ever actually tell anyone irl I watch Toku. Yeah, that's one of several reasons I have issues with Drive (Medic is probably the female character in it I have the most trouble with, given her entire character is literally based around adoration for Heart). The main other one is that given the time Drive came out, police brutality on the news, and given the show has a thing where they arrest all the human criminals and kill all the roidmudes kinda caused some dissonance in my head I couldn't quite work through. Finally, Brain verges on a bad gay stereotype later on with his weird love triangle with Heart and Medic, and flat out becomes one in the Chase movie when he after gets upstaged by Medic and starts stuffing stuff down his shirt in envy over Medic attracting Heart with her cleavage (AKA Japan's confusion of homosexuality and transgender in pop culture on occasion). I've got quality issues with other bits of Drive, but those are the things that really bother me. (Chase movie also has the weird sorta leadup to sex scene, but that's more of a "why is this in a Rider movie" given the target demographic of the series confusion moment for me.) I've also got severe annoyance with Gaim over killing Yoko Minato off, but a huge chunk of that is it happens in a very sudden and unnecessary way and Rider really needs to stop killing off almost all the female Riders. (Oren is the best, though.) EDIT: Also, come on, Ghost? Ghost has Alia transform into Kamen Rider Dark Necrom P and get her rear kicked in under thirty seconds and then never do anything again. Ghost has any cool ideas Akari has fail so Takeru can solve everything again. Ghost has problems. I'm pretty good with Ex-Aid so far on these kinds of issues other than wishing Nico got to do more onscreen, partially because everything we've seen of her fighting has been amazing. gourdcaptain fucked around with this message at 06:40 on Aug 23, 2017 |
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Aug 23, 2017 06:26
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Jesus Christ that bus episode. gently caress that bus episode. The funny thing is, it might be the first episode where I really loved Gai. He did a lot of lovely things to begin with, and almost all of them under the guise of what Inoue really thinks an awesome cool guy was like from the late 80s. Which, as mentioned, is 'womanizer who sleeps around a lot.' Which, really, weird character to have in a show aimed at preshoolers but whatever. I'd say Japan but the 90s cracked down on that hard in Japan, so I can't even say Japan. Anywho, I'll sum up with Gai is the Best and Worst character of Jetman. Either he is the saving grace of an episode, or he is an active problem. The issue is, whenever he is not the saving grace, there is very little to turn to because Blue does nothing, Yellow is meanspirited comic relief, Red likes to drink milk, and Pink doesn't have a personality that isn't "Super Feminine, Wants To gently caress Red, Black Wants To gently caress" The bus episode. So this has spoilers for the record, but you know how that goes. Now there are a lot of things to say about the bus episode, and a fair chunk of them you can write off with a simple "it's a kids show." Like, why do the Jetmen, the Men of Jets, not use their Jets to jet to Yellow's farm? Because it's a kids show, relax. Pink just really wanted to ride on a bus for literally hours with him to his farm for whatever reason she's here for. The entire concept of the episode is broken. In any other toku series, within reason, this would actually be a great episode. Because it's a murder mystery, which is a great idea for a toku and I'm being sincere on that. I really wish we got more stuff like this. We have a small cast of characters, only two of our leads are present, one of them is even tolerable, and there is, in any other show, a legit mystery afoot. Every time the bus drives into a tunnel, some one dies. So of course we go all Thing on everyone, and everyone suspects everyone else. Except our heroes, who are mostly staying out of it and just kind of cowering in their seats while people get eaten. Slowly the cast dwindles, and ignore the fact that they keep driving and don't just stop the bus after like, the third person dies, shut up, and the remaining members all get their character development, except our heroes, and come up with a clever plan to figure out who the killer is. Except for the driver, they all sit in a circle and hold hands or whatever it was they did. And then the driver is eaten because the monster was the BUS THE WHOLE TIME Here's why that does not work in Jetman. Or rather, why that being a mystery does not work. Any other show, sure that's fun. That would make for a killer Garo episode and twist. Jetman? Okay ignoring the fact that the ENTIRE MO of the villains is that they bring inanimate objects to life and make the monsters, Yellow and Pink should have keyed in immediately because, off the top of my head, there were two different occasions when that monster was something they either rode in, or were just inside of. First was a jet, and the second was a building. The sheer fact that our heroes are so titanically stupid to have not caught onto the fact that the bus is clearly the monster, which the viewer would have figured out within minutes of the mystery playing out to them if they were of the age the show was made for, faster otherwise, is only surpassed by one thing. Well two. The less important thing is that the inside of the bus is so much better designed than the actual bus monster itself, which is just a bus with generic green monster limbs and a scary face. The more important thing is The villains are even dumber. I'm not even sure what their loving plan WAS here It can't have been to kill Yellow and Pink because, literally, they could have been picked off at ANY TIME. These two morons were just staying on the bus slackjawed while the side characters did all the sleuthing. They had no defense against bus devouring, they had no clue it was the bus despite the fact that they should have known it was the moment it started eating people, and the bus had multiple chances to eat them. Honestly speaking, I'm not even sure the villains had a plan. I think they created the man eating bus and just called it a day. Like they just threw it out in the wild, shrugged, and went on their business having no actual goal or schemes. It literally would not be the first time. The Noodle Cup Monster? Never meant to run afoul the Jetmen. The fact that one of them ate his special noodles and got affected by his evil noodle magic was not only something they did not expect, but they also DID NOT WANT TO HAVE HAPPEN. So the only thing I can think of is that this was not an elaborate plan to kill Pink and Yellow, but was instead just a weird coincidence that Pink and Yellow happened to get on the monster bus that ate people, and it both did not know who they were, and did not choose to eat them at any given point in time. It is a story, about idiots, fighting idiots, some times by accident. Gai's role in the story, for the record, is to silently be very happy that he's not going to Yellow's farm, and then silently be very annoyed that he has to spend time with everyone and then horrified that they're dragging him to Yellow's farm. Gai is the best and worst character.
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Aug 23, 2017 06:40
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Burkion posted:*huge analysis of bus episode*
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Aug 23, 2017 06:42
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Hemingway To Go! posted:I'm seen tumblr blogs who spend almost all their time complaining about how sexist most of hesei phase 2 is, except for Ghost which they think is the best series ever, not have that much of a problem with jetman. It's very much  and it's very baked into the stereotypes and culture. Not mocking her would practically be atypical for a Japanese series. It's lovely. No doubt. But that's mainstream culture. It's not an excuse, but that's the social context it exists in and most of the media there will continue to portray it as it slowly shifts towards it being socially acceptable for a woman to not be married by the age of 30. As far as shafting the female characters, it's basically a bit like fridging in that it's a cheap way to generate character drama or upping the stakes without actually affecting the cast members who are actually selling the product. The fact that Poppy and Nico could actually contribute to fights was a step up from Drive and Ghost, though Gaim had that previously with Yoko. It's definitely been improving, albeit, slowly.
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Aug 23, 2017 10:31
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Caphi posted:Hello I caught up on Kyuranger and Dark Naga is great.
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Aug 23, 2017 10:37
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I still think Nico should've gotten to be Cronus and that's the biggest mistake of the series. Hell, that sure would be useful now, seeing how Hyper Muteki is unusable due to Parad's death so having someone immune to Pause would be very good. It'd be a cool ending if Nico finally got to be a proper Rider as the person who cleared Kamen Rider Chronicle in the first place, final boss excluded. That's a minor complaint though, because Nico is still cool and Ex-Aid has been one of the best Rider series and I'll be really drat sad once it ends next week. Giving Level 1 one last time to shine after so many episodes of not appearing was very cool, and it had a proper explanation instead of "series ending, let's show the old forms again" like Ghost did. I'm not sure how Kuroto got Proto Mighty Action X back, but he didn't deserve to get trolled twice in an episode so I can ignore it. Also Build seems like a giant goof and I like him already. I hope his personality is somewhat like that in the series proper too. Also also, as temporary as they might be, Poppy and Parad's sacrifices were sad. The strongest ally was virus. Kyuranger this week was also very good. Minor complaint, but having Garu and Kotaro in the same team is dumb. If they had been split, both teams would have the colours that appeared in every single Sentai. They'd be two proper Sentai teams! Missed opportunity there. Also I really hope Naga keeps Metal after he goes back to good. He deserves the power-up because he's the best Kyuranger, and if Kinji could turn evil energy into neutral energy, then Naga should be able to as well. Blaze Dragon fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Aug 23, 2017 |
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Aug 23, 2017 15:50
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Naga Ray is both Data and Spock.
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Aug 23, 2017 16:05
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Clearing Chronicle was a team effort, at minimum. DHZ, DoReMiFa Beat, Tokemeki Crisis, and whatever key Parado was supposed to have, those threats were neutralized by other people. She doesn't have the operation to use the Driver like Taiga did (I don't quite get slamming two Chronicle carts into it, but whatever) and she hasn't developed the resistance to Bugster that the Dans have to use a Bugvisor. Seemingly the Chronicle winner was either to either steal a Driver from the Doctors or loot a Bugvisor II from Poppy or Ren, and even then Dan expected numerous people to collect all these pieces and then die trying to summon the Cronus suit exactly for these reasons. The whole event would then have to start over again each time. I get that it's a sore point to fandom that KR consistently presents women as less capable, and live-action DVa being the one to finish The World's Most Dangerous Video Game makes sense to some degree, but Nico's role in the story is to remain unaffected by bugster or else Taiga dies trying. His whole origin is about failing to save someone, so sparing her from the burden of being exposed to a fatal level of the disease is kind of the payoff to his arc.
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Aug 23, 2017 16:08
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You're right, it's very important that Nico be ineffectual, or else her much more important role of motivating a man might be jeopardized.
girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Aug 23, 2017 |
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Aug 23, 2017 16:15
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Calling Nico incompetent is kind of weird when she managed to beat a lot of powered-up Bugsters with the shittiest tech in the series. As a Ride-Player, which again, is literally the shittiest form in-series to the point that it seems to be made specifically to get its users killed (and Parad sure took advantage of this), she managed to be far more competent and skilled than, say, Brave Lv5. And she managed to keep her life when every other Ride-Player either abandoned, had to get saved, or just died, putting her above Kuroto (who has died over a hundred times) in terms of survival. Her role is ultimately as a part of Taiga's character arc, yeah, but she got to be super cool until Taiga's character arc reached its conclusion. And she had a nice character arc of her own that went beyond Taiga's, starting as a game-obsessed jerkass and ending as a proper good person who wanted to help others, as well as realizing how she wanted to play games for the challenge of it instead of seeking revenge against Emu/Parad. Me saying she should've gotten to be Cronus is partly a joke. I still wish she had, and I do think that maybe getting her to take over after Taiga became Snipe again as a way to properly help others with the Super Gamedeus pandemic would've been cute, but it's ultimately unimportant and doesn't diminish Nico as a character. If anything, that she managed to do this much despite not even being a proper Rider shows how drat cool she is, far beyond the likes of Alia (she's Dark Necrom!...she lasted for a minute before getting beaten up!) or Yoko (her whole character arc is being the servant of powerful men!).
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Aug 23, 2017 16:22
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(Replying to PMush) It's not that I don't get where you're coming from, I just think you're going about it the wrong way since you'd be throwing out a ton of establishing events if you do it that way. What they should have done is reworked Kiriya's storyline and made that character a woman. His story is independent of the other doctor's personal relationships and he is, time and time again, the person who formulates the recipe to save the world. He's arguably the most competent character on the show.
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Aug 23, 2017 16:23
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Xelkelvos posted:It's very much Yeah usually I don't evaluate things by female character use and I like drive, I think I might just hold off recommending it if I'm ever to recommend a series and find out how much who I'm talking to projects on to female characters. Even if it's a Japan thing there's other series that do a better job with them like Agito.
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Aug 23, 2017 16:46
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Sorry, the word I was looking for was "ineffectual", that's my bad.
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Aug 23, 2017 16:47
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Craptacular! posted:What they should have done is reworked Kiriya's storyline and made that character a woman. His story is independent of the other doctor's personal relationships and he is, time and time again, the person who formulates the recipe to save the world. He's arguably the most competent character on the show. Might have been some slight optics issues early on with Kiriya constantly lying and manipulating everyone and Kiriya dying in episode 12, but it would have arguably worked in the long run. (What I mean by "optics issues" is the portions of the fandom who are, like me, continually slightly to more annoyed by the female Rider issues would probably not guess at the later resurrection and get rather annoyed at the time.) Hemingway To Go! posted:Yeah usually I don't evaluate things by female character use and I like drive, I think I might just hold off recommending it if I'm ever to recommend a series and find out how much who I'm talking to projects on to female characters. Even if it's a Japan thing there's other series that do a better job with them like Agito. ...huh, never thought about it, but Agito is pretty good with a few of its female characters. Ozawa is awesome, and I have to like anyone who can design a suit of power armor while insanely drunk and the problem ends up being that it's too good. And everyone else is roughly evenly incompetent or unstable as a portion of the group across gender lines. Weirdly enough, my favorite character in Agito is probably Hojo, because I love that surprisingly decent cop with absolutely no tact or charisma and a rampant ego. And the plot where he deals with his mentor being crooked is one of my favorite episodes of the show. And he gets the bit where when he's asked if people got the power of Agito if that would be a problem, he says no, because he believes people are fundamentally good, because he's fundamentally good. :P
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Aug 23, 2017 17:30
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nico and poppy weren't treated particularly well compared to the male riders, but they had some decent scenes and also dodged the usual groan-inducing bullshit. so hey, baby steps.
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Aug 23, 2017 17:43
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:nico and poppy weren't treated particularly well compared to the male riders, but they had some decent scenes and also dodged the usual groan-inducing bullshit. so hey, baby steps. I'd say that Nico and Poppy got roughly the same treatment as the rest of the Riders did. Not because they were treated particularly well, just because Ex-Aid is a series where everyone gets to suffer. There's no sexism in torturing everyone. That said, it's clearly a very atheistic series, because the worst treatment goes to our God, Neo Dan "The Man" Kuroto God. And that's just not right. What series would we have without his godly talents?
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Aug 23, 2017 17:57
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gourdcaptain posted:Might have been some slight optics issues early on with Kiriya constantly lying and manipulating everyone and Kiriya dying in episode 12, but it would have arguably worked in the long run. (What I mean by "optics issues" is the portions of the fandom who are, like me, continually slightly to more annoyed by the female Rider issues would probably not guess at the later resurrection and get rather annoyed at the time.) That's why I said they should redo the story. Kiriya basically unravels the story very quickly and then dies in a way that accomplishes nothing except to "put over" Dan, in wrestling parlance. We'll never know the studio reason for why he was written the way he was, but I wasn't suggesting a gender swap with the same script.
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Aug 23, 2017 18:15
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Blaze Dragon posted:That said, it's clearly a very atheistic series, because the worst treatment goes to our God, Neo Dan "The Man" Kuroto God. And that's just not right. What series would we have without his godly talents? 
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Aug 23, 2017 18:38
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Craptacular! posted:What they should have done is reworked Kiriya's storyline and made that character a woman. But then we'd have the main character riding a woman, which I'm sure would thrill the people who didn't like having a 10 year old dry humping on a kids show
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Aug 23, 2017 19:33
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Ignis posted:But then we'd have the main character riding a woman, which I'm sure would thrill the people who didn't like having a 10 year old dry humping on a kids show That was, actually more than the death, why I suggested minor rewrites. Like giving up on the "human motorcycle" thing one episode shorter than they did.
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Aug 23, 2017 19:36
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Honestly Lazer Lvl 2 being a motorcycle was a terrible idea no matter how you look at it(and honestly I'm betting that's 99% of the reason they killed him off for a large chunk of the series)
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Aug 23, 2017 19:56
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drrockso20 posted:Honestly Lazer Lvl 2 being a motorcycle was a terrible idea no matter how you look at it(and honestly I'm betting that's 99% of the reason they killed him off for a large chunk of the series) Bike Gamer Lv2 was just very badly used in the series. It barely matters beyond crippling Kiriya until he gets Lv3, forces him to fight a level below everyone else in a form that doesn't have enough movement for cool fight scenes, and then he dies and Emu can just summon it without needing someone to become it so...why did we sacrifice a Rider fighting for a bike again? We could just have the bike and the Rider. And even that barely gets used! Pretty much the only good thing that came out of it was Lazer Turbo Sports BIke Gamer riding the Bike Gamer, thus having a bike, fused with a bike, riding a bike.
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Aug 23, 2017 20:00
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LAZER got his gashat from blackmail, I like to think that Dan gave him the one that turned him into bike out of spite. They'd be able to do more if they were able to do more bike scenes these days in general, I've heard that Japanese road laws prevent them from filming bike stunts anymore except in a very limited fashion.
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Aug 23, 2017 20:06
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As much as it pains to say, it'd probably be for the franchise's best interest to finally just drop fully the motorcycle gimmick
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Aug 23, 2017 20:26
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drrockso20 posted:As much as it pains to say, it'd probably be for the franchise's best interest to finally just drop fully the motorcycle gimmick Counterpoint: More bikes maybe a rider that transforms with a bi-wait no that's just Mach
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Aug 23, 2017 20:37
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if they can't film any rad motorcycle stunts then yeah, no point to the gimmick
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Aug 23, 2017 20:44
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drrockso20 posted:As much as it pains to say, it'd probably be for the franchise's best interest to finally just drop fully the motorcycle gimmick I donno, I think on the scale of things iconic to the franchise that actually cause problems, the increasingly convoluted and bizarre toy gimmicks probably get in the way more than the five seconds of motorcycle footage per series.
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Aug 23, 2017 20:45
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Plus the title kind of mandates that they at least ride something, even if it's just for an episode or two.
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Aug 23, 2017 20:57
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They'd lose out on that Honda money if they completely dropped bikes.
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Aug 23, 2017 21:16
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Also it'd basically remove half of the name. Next propose how they should just not wear helmets or masks of any kind. There are some things that are fundamental to Kamen Rider. Vehicles, not just motorcycles, is absolutely one of them, and yeah it comes from a very specific place. They didn't have the budget to do special effects of any kind, so instead, they did motorcycle stunts. It became part of the identity of the show, and no Rider series has gone without some kind of vehicle. Even Shin has a motorcycle. Shin.
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Aug 23, 2017 21:21
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Start experimenting with vehicles imo Next season he has a snowmobile After that, a riding mower
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Aug 23, 2017 21:55
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i thought that kiriya being the bike meant that he would become emu's best friend and then they would ride around together fighting multiple vehicle-themed monsters.
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Aug 23, 2017 21:58
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Yeah, while a few of the other series tropes have been broken every once and a while (such as the Hibiki Riders not using belts to transform and V3 being one of if not the only Rider whose power is not the same or at least simillar to that of his enemies) there has never been a Rider series without some sort of vehicle. It just doesn't necessarily have to be a motorcycle (Black RX and Drive used cars for example).
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Aug 23, 2017 22:00
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