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IronSaber posted:What about an Imperial Raider wreck? Still 2.6m long at 28mm scale bunnyofdoom posted:What about a medium transport wreck? Hell, have it be the bridge on the ground, as like a tower, and then scattered cargo containers 1.6m long at 28mm scale A standard battlefield is only 1.8m long by 1.2m wide Even the Millennium Falcon at that scale is 62cm long NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Aug 23, 2017 |
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Aug 23, 2017 21:08
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So again, just like one on the under pieces, and several cargo containers to suggest one lost it's cargo while being shot down. Also be objectives.
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Aug 23, 2017 21:22
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Grey Hunter posted:What you have here is the key split in wargames - people who want Heros and people who want epic battles - it mirrors the feilds of history where some people think that history is written by the major players (Napoleon, Alexander, Ceaser, Hitler) against those that belive that they are just the product of the socities that produced them and SOMEONE would have made the events happen. Yeah, not really. I'm somebody who plays the faceless hordes of the Imperial Guard, and if/when I get into Legion it'll be absent any kind of recognizable figure from the movies (Which is in part why I never got into Imperial Assault-I'd rather play five Joe Nobodies over a single Luke or Han or whoever). Personally, I like the scale they went with, because I recognize that a smaller scale simply wouldn't work for portraying OT firefights. Nearly every fight in the OT and Rogue One is effectively small-scale infantry battles with light speeder or walker support, with the exceptions of Hoth and Scarif-which are still both primarily infantry fights with AT-ATs mixed in. And while it would be cool to have AT-ATs on the tabletop, trying to warp the scale of the entire game to fit around the inclusion of a single vehicle for a single faction is... not great design.
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Aug 23, 2017 21:58
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Acebuckeye13 posted:I recognize that a smaller scale simply wouldn't work for portraying OT firefights. See, I disagree with this statement, because Imperial Assault already exists to depict small scale OT firefights like inside the Tantive IV, Mos Eisley, etc, so why does it need to be done again when what's really needed is a 10/15mm scale game that can depict not only the battles of Hoth and Endor from the OT, and Scarif from RO, but also Geonosis from the PT, and any of a number of battles from TCW? They should have copied the relationship between X-Wing and Armada, instead they just released a slightly different X-Wing. NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Aug 23, 2017 |
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Aug 23, 2017 22:05
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FFG isn't going to suddenly reduce the size of the minis. No sense beating a dead horse repeating the same thing over and over guys. In less whiny news. I know a few shops owners and it looks like Legion is going to sell really well. Most are getting as many preorders as the new edition of 40k with a few getting even more. That's less than a week after being announced.
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Aug 23, 2017 22:25
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NTRabbit posted:See, I disagree with this statement, because Imperial Assault already exists to depict small scale OT firefights like inside the Tantive IV, Mos Eisley, etc, so why does it need to be done again when what's really needed is a 10/15mm scale game that can depict not only the battles of Hoth and Endor from the OT, but also Geonosis from the PT, and any of a number of battles from TCW? I've said before that I think that the Clone Wars would be a great setting for a smaller scale wargame, since that's the only place in Star Wars where you really see those big, wide-open vehicle-heavy battles that would justify it. But for the OT, which is what FFG has always focused their games on, there's far less in the way of actual vehicles outside of the AT-AT that would justify a smaller scale. And keep in mind, 10/15mm infantry is loving tiny. Take my own models for comparison:  From left to right you've got a 40K Guardsman (28mm), some UNSC Troopers from Halo Ground Battles (15mm), American Rifle Infantry from Flames of War (15mm), and Resistance Fighters from Dropzone Commander (10mm). Notably in each game, the focus on vehicles gets heavier as you go down in scale-40K is primarily infantry with a handful of vehicles in support (Unless you're like me and play parking lot Guard, but that's neither here nor there), Flames of War is very heavily tank-focused unless you're playing entrenched infantry, and in Dropzone Commander vehicles are a necessary part of the game no matter what army you're playing. The simple fact is, Star Wars battles aren't vehicle focused-they're all about infantry (And fighters, but X-Wing already exists). And in infantry-focused games, larger scales are better-suited at capturing the nuances of infantry firefights, just like how smaller scales are better at depicting massed tank battles. And because there's an absence of any real ground combat vehicles in the OT outside of the AT-AT and AT-ST, it wouldn't really make sense to go with a smaller scale than the one they did. Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Aug 23, 2017 |
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Aug 23, 2017 22:33
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Yeah overall I am very excited for this the more I think about it, it's just that with it still being several months out it's hard to not think about ways they could gently caress it up or how it might fail to gain any traction. I'm totally on board with the scale though and think the size of stuff looks cool. I understand FFG wanting to try and eat GW's lunch and the Star Wars IP is certainly the best bet for doing that. Mechanically it looks like they've done some intelligent streamlining, and I like the almost Warmachine-eqsue thing of having one or two centerpiece guys that are powerhouses, and I hope balance is struck well there. My only real complaint there is that they didn't keep army size and firing ranges low enough to keep the table size down as well; It's a consistent complaint of mine to bitch about wargame table size and this unfortunately may finally prompt me to get a big 4x6 piece of plywood and gussy it up.
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Aug 23, 2017 22:34
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It's 6x3, which is a normal size for a 6 seater dining table. Not something everyone has, but something you'll find around. 6x4 dining tables are pretty rare, at least in the UK. (I've just furnished a house so I've been looking at tables)
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Aug 23, 2017 23:08
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Yeah I've got a dining table that's a pretty standard size and just not quite right for wargames. It's perfect for X-Wing because it's a little over 3 feet wide, and might be 6 feet end to end with the leaf in it but it's oval shaped so it can't accommodate anything that's square or rectangular that's much bigger than the 3x3 playmat. First world problems ya know.
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Aug 23, 2017 23:23
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The main worrying thing to me so far is the 6 turn structure and objectives yet again. Also minorly, kinda sad that all the infantry models appear to be dudes. FFG has generally been good about awareness of women gamers, and Star Wars in general after Rogue One, so it's a shame they didn't toss in one woman mini per squad.
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Aug 24, 2017 00:07
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Pretend they're lady Duros.
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Aug 24, 2017 00:09
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Raged posted:FFG isn't going to suddenly reduce the size of the minis. No sense beating a dead horse repeating the same thing over and over guys.
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Aug 24, 2017 00:43
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After watching the entire video, while it's impossible to say for sure, it does look like it's handling 'big' units far better than Armada does. Luke and Vader looks significantly harder to kill than a Star Destroyer (though those stormtroopers can punch), and how the order cards and randomized unit activations work look to mitigate some of the issues that leads to Armada being all about small ships.
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Aug 24, 2017 00:54
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I really liked how the speeder bikes work with the mandatory movement. They will be great openers, but somewhat predictable. Also the different hit dice is a great idea. Sure the Gatling laser rolls a ton of dice but it does not have a great chance of pulling off many hits. Don't know if this has been posted but the bottom right corner shows off all the dice.  While Luke is more agile his lightsaber only rolls black dice. Vader is slow but he is rolling red and is going to wreck poo poo plus he can throw his saber. Raged fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Aug 24, 2017 |
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Aug 24, 2017 01:52
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Dice design is interesting with the surge conversion. Gives the designer a fine level of control over chance. It looks like Storm troopers are garbage shots vs rebels as they roll white dice vs black, but actually they have offensive surge conversion so that's 3/8 faces are hits, plus they have a reroll, compared to rebels 4/8 are hits on black dice. Plus storm troopers are more likely to take an aim action compared to rebels who get more benefit from dodge. The same with armour saves, storm troopers red dice have 3 faces that block hits, against the rebels 1 plus surge conversion, plus an infinite evade if they've dodged to help them under sustained fire.
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Aug 24, 2017 03:00
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What is "surge?"
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Aug 24, 2017 05:25
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oh yes oh god yes form the head FORM THE HEAD unghhhh...
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IronSaber posted:What is "surge?" Think of focus on a xwing die. However there are no focus action. Each character/squad does something different. Some count as blanks. While Vader's lightsaber turns them to crits. Just found out the price for the starter box in Australia. $150 The Aus tax is real and painful. At least my flgs is doing it for $135
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Aug 24, 2017 05:31
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bonds0097 posted:No way: https://imgur.com/uvcXi4o He put more care into painting OSL and highlights on light saber Luke, so of course it's going to look better. It has an extra pouch or two, sure. But other than that it's like a classic Giraldez painting trick on infinity models when people find out that infinity models are extremely flat. IronSaber posted:What is "surge?"
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Aug 24, 2017 05:32
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Oh, also Legion delivery date is December before Christmas. So far the only thing being released is the core set.
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Aug 24, 2017 05:54
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Raged posted:Just found out the price for the starter box in Australia. $150 Mightyape has it listed for 129$ AUS https://www.mightyape.com.au/product/star-wars-legion/26880364
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Aug 24, 2017 06:20
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xutech posted:Mightyape has it listed for 129$ AUS I'll just grab it from the shop I play at. Someone has to keep them in business. Things are probably going get rough when Amazon moves in next year.
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Aug 24, 2017 07:39
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Chill la Chill posted:He put more care into painting OSL and highlights on light saber Luke, so of course it's going to look better. It has an extra pouch or two, sure. But other than that it's like a classic Giraldez painting trick on infinity models when people find out that infinity models are extremely flat. You are a crazy man. If you can't see the additional sculpted detail I don't know what to tell you. I also have plenty of infinity miniatures and they sure as gently caress are not "flat". Anyhow, 28mm is what we,re getting so that's that, praise be praise be.
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Aug 24, 2017 12:27
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Acebuckeye13 posted:I've said before that I think that the Clone Wars would be a great setting for a smaller scale wargame, since that's the only place in Star Wars where you really see those big, wide-open vehicle-heavy battles that would justify it. Yeah. If the core was Clones v Droids it would be a day one purchase for me. Large infantry-movement open-battlefield battles don't even make sense during the GCW era; why on earth would the Rebels attempt to fight the Empire in battles like this? They certainly don't in the movies
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Aug 24, 2017 13:21
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Raged posted:Oh, also Legion delivery date is December before Christmas. So far the only thing being released is the core set. From FFG's website "Take command of your forces and give the order to charge—the Star Wars: Legion Core Set (SWL01) is scheduled to be released in early 2018. Head to your local retailer to pre-order your copy today, or you can place your pre-order with FFG here!" Runewars was shown last GenCon and released in April, so out before Christmas seems very wishful. Source?
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Aug 24, 2017 15:02
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MCPeePants posted:From FFG's website "Take command of your forces and give the order to charge—the Star Wars: Legion Core Set (SWL01) is scheduled to be released in early 2018. Head to your local retailer to pre-order your copy today, or you can place your pre-order with FFG here!" I read the email from distro at the shop today and talked to another owner friend of mine and it's definitely December. Disney is probably pushing for it to coincide with the new movie release.
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Aug 24, 2017 15:25
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Waffles Inc. posted:Yeah. If the core was Clones v Droids it would be a day one purchase for me. Large infantry-movement open-battlefield battles don't even make sense during the GCW era; why on earth would the Rebels attempt to fight the Empire in battles like this? They certainly don't in the movies Why do people fawn over the worst movies? Everyone likes the originals. Why start with the trilogy that is easily the most hated.
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Aug 24, 2017 15:27
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Raged posted:Why do people fawn over the worst movies? Everyone likes the originals. Why start with the trilogy that is easily the most hated. On the other hand, the only land battles in all three of the originals worth being simulated in a game are Hoth and Endor, and both are impossible to play in Legion. Also, you're forgetting The Clone Wars TV series
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Aug 24, 2017 15:36
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Raged posted:Why do people fawn over the worst movies? Everyone likes the originals. Why start with the trilogy that is easily the most hated. Because we're not fawning over the movies, we're fawning over large troop formations in those movies that would be fitting for a game called, well, "Legion." As much as I hate TPM besides the podracing scene, there's a part that tickles my brain when the Battle of Naboo reminds me of a Roman-Pict battle (say, Mons Graupius) or the Anglo-Zulu wars.
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Aug 24, 2017 15:48
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Raged posted:Why do people fawn over the worst movies? Everyone likes the originals. Why start with the trilogy that is easily the most hated. they are good movies also they are the only SW films to depict pitched battles the Gungan/Droid battle on Naboo is exactly the sort of thing a minis wargame is meant to depict not to mention the endless expansion fodder that the montage in Revenge of the Sith has alone how long can game companies get by just catering to the old star war fans with sticks up their asses about the prequels when anyone under like 25 likely grew up with the prequels and the clone wars cartoon? like, how many times do people want to re-live the loving battle of hoth for gods sake aside from all that, what's the downside? completionists will buy everything anyway, and adding in prequel factions doesn't mean that prequel haters have to play those sides. what's the disincentive?
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Aug 24, 2017 15:55
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Chill la Chill posted:Because we're not fawning over the movies, we're fawning over large troop formations in those movies that would be fitting for a game called, well, "Legion." As much as I hate TPM besides the podracing scene, there's a part that tickles my brain when the Battle of Naboo reminds me of a Roman-Pict battle (say, Mons Graupius) or the Anglo-Zulu wars. Missed opportunity TBH, even at this scale, to not go for Clone Wars.
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Aug 24, 2017 17:01
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Prequels are dogshit and I'm extremely glad most new Disney-run material downplays them. X-Wing thankfully hasn't touched them and opted for old EU and new stuff, and I hope Legion follows suit. I want Kyle Katarn and Finn and Rey and poo poo and not some dumbass gungans and lovely battle droids.
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Aug 24, 2017 17:10
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You don't start with the prequel stuff, because the image of Star Wars is original trilogy. Of course they're going to start with Stormtroopers, Rebel commandos, Darth Vader, Luke Skywalker, and Boba Fett because that's the most recognizable. Look at the merchandise, how many clone troopers, battle droids, Jango Fett, Gungans, or wookiees not named Chewbacca do you see? In X-Wing, the first 3 waves were all on-screen OT ships. But then they ran out, and put a HWK-290 from Dark Forces. Then everything since then has been EU stuff, and a bunch of stuff that appeared in Star Wars Rebels. The funny thing is that the stuff that is released more recently ends up being the better things in the meta, so if you look at the top tables at tournaments 90% of the ships there are not in the films. I don't doubt that Legion will eventually get into prequel era stuff, but I expect you're going to see a lot of OT/ST stuff first.
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Aug 24, 2017 17:22
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^^^^ Well the starter has Stormtroopers and Rebel Commandos, so the next big expansions will be what? Snowtroopers and Hoth base rebels? Then what? That's it. OT is out of troops. Onto Rogue One and Eps VII and VIII I suppose. Gumdrop Larry posted:Prequels are dogshit and I'm extremely glad most new Disney-run material downplays them. X-Wing thankfully hasn't touched them and opted for old EU and new stuff, and I hope Legion follows suit. I want Kyle Katarn and Finn and Rey and poo poo and not some dumbass gungans and lovely battle droids. Arquinsiel fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Aug 24, 2017 |
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Aug 24, 2017 17:23
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Arquinsiel posted:You've not been keeping up with X-wing for the last while have you? The ARC-170 is a thing already, and the Sheathipede is in wave 12. Nah I follow X-Wing extremely closely, I just literally forgot that the ARC was from the prequels because it was so minor and inoffensive. Same deal with the shuttle if that was actually featured in the prequels as well. I thought that was entirely from the newer cartoon stuff.
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Aug 24, 2017 17:27
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I want an operational-level SW wargame where I track the amount of supplies going from Bothawui to Scarif and hope they get through the Empire's Baobab Merchant Marine Academy at Manda.
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Aug 24, 2017 17:33
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Gumdrop Larry posted:Nah I follow X-Wing extremely closely, I just literally forgot that the ARC was from the prequels because it was so minor and inoffensive. Same deal with the shuttle if that was actually featured in the prequels as well. I thought that was entirely from the newer cartoon stuff. It was the shuttle used by the Trade Federation boss in TPM and AOC, later seen extensively in TCW, and now featuring in Rebels, albeit with quite a few modifications.
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Aug 24, 2017 17:33
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The Prequels had a lot of issues, but the vast majority of those were in the script and in the direction. The design aesthetic was honestly pretty great, and the ships and vehicles from that trilogy don't deserve to be dismissed out of hand just because George Lucas forgot how to make movies.
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Aug 24, 2017 17:34
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Chill la Chill posted:I want an operational-level SW wargame where I track the amount of supplies going from Bothawui to Scarif and hope they get through the Empire's Baobab Merchant Marine Academy at Manda. Campaign for North Outer Rim Acebuckeye13 posted:The Prequels had a lot of issues, but the vast majority of those were in the script and in the direction. The design aesthetic was honestly pretty great, and the ships and vehicles from that trilogy don't deserve to be dismissed out of hand just because George Lucas forgot how to make movies. It also gets a little weird too with what faction you put things in. Is the Trade Federation their own faction? They have like, 6 onscreen units, no hero/commanders, and not a lot of EU stuff beyond it. How about the Clone army? Do they go with the Rebels because they're the good guys in the films, or do they go with Imperials because they're going to be stormtroopers in 5 years anyway? I don't think anyone's really excited to see a gungan army slinging blue softballs behind dinosaur shield generators
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Aug 24, 2017 17:49
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Between OT, Rebels, Rogue One, Shadow of the Empire, Dark Forces... you end with a decent set of units choose from I think. I guess Imperials mostly just get a bunch of variations of Stormtroopers though.
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Aug 24, 2017 18:00
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canyoneer posted:Campaign for North Outer Rim quote:I don't think anyone's really excited to see a gungan army slinging blue softballs behind dinosaur shield generators bonds0097 posted:Between OT, Rebels, Rogue One, Shadow of the Empire, Dark Forces... you end with a decent set of units choose from I think. I guess Imperials mostly just get a bunch of variations of Stormtroopers though.
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Aug 24, 2017 18:08
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