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Toops posted:The fact is, Chris Roberts doesn't actually like video games. If he did, he would be talking about and (more importantly) showing gameplay. He would be driving his organization to produce a game that you can play. Star Citizen would be something you could actually play without tumbling down the matchstick house. He would be uncompromising in his pursuit of a fun experience for the end-user. Instead, he compromises Star Citizen The Game at every turn out of unfathomable, incalculable narcissism. In reality, his entire world view is centered around building a cinematic monument to his "genius." All he really wants is a perpetual sizzle real. He wants that roaring applause when the space commando flips the helmet in the air and pulls it on like a "badass." That "moment" right there was the pinnacle of Star Citizen. That was the plan. That was the pitch, the pledge, that's every 10FTC, ATV, every art asset, and every line of code. Right there. The "game" is filler which acts as a simple bonding agent between stunted, imbecilic Chris Roberts mini-movies. This is the best short summary of Star Citizen that I've read. It's distilled truth.
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Aug 24, 2017 18:22
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Nicholas posted:does anyone have a list of good clips from todays stream? I am partial to this one. Crash landing is in. https://clips.twitch.tv/BoredSteamyHerringDoritosChip
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Aug 24, 2017 18:22
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Star Citizen: Big Ships over the worm spacing
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Aug 24, 2017 18:23
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https://twitter.com/BNBL_Posts/status/900770786776141825
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Aug 24, 2017 18:24
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One thing worth noting, and I don't just mean for the lulz. Even the bizarrely pro-CIG  -ors should take note of this.Item 1: Tomorrows big presentation, where Crobblers gets to parade out his next big marketing video. It's obviously going to be fairly spectacular, with incredible production values, enthralling visuals and apparent gameplay coupled with excellent sound direction and movie0like presentation. Everyone will be wowed, everyone will go "oh that's impressive". Item 2: The last few days of looking at 'cut down' 3.0. It's supposed to be spectacular, it's janky, has low production values, visuals are ok but nothing great, gameplay is limited to what you can already do in other modules but set on a planet and not a station. Few are impressed, yet to see a single "wow" One of these, represents CIG's, and by extention, CR's imagined ability to create a good game. (Item 1) One of these, represents CIG's and by extention, CR's actual ability to create a good game. (Item 2) Sabreseven fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Aug 24, 2017 |
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Aug 24, 2017 18:29
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Polish Avenger posted:It's like they just work for a year to make a playable demo to wow everyone at gamescom with no ability to even consider how they make that into a live game. That's bullshit and you know it, they only work 3 months tops for their Gamescom demo. The rest of the year is spent making the CitizenCon demo 
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Aug 24, 2017 18:30
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Hav posted:Now, what I'm seeing in the actual streams isn't revolutionary or even that interesting in terms of the client-server model that they have going; they're running into the same problems everyone has, and that's part of the problem. If you're effectively re-treading old ground, why are you not benefiting from everyone else's faceplants? Why does Item2.0 exist? Are they over-abstracting on the basis that Moore's law will overcome the inherent inefficiencies? Because networking isn't advancing at the same speed as GPUs. Yeah, that's alarming, honestly. I think anyone serious knows the writing on the wall even if they don't say it. Whatever the PU ends up being, it's going to be sub-20 people to an instance tops if they want anything real-time to work. No hand wavey inter-instance combat, they need to bind and gag anyone saying that to the public. The fact that they are years into this without their networking model locked down hard is so silly it's...well it's exactly right for them.
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Aug 24, 2017 18:31
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Hav posted:
The speed of light and the size of atoms sucks from a theoretically CS standpoint. Robert's vision goes beyond those two basic constraints. Eh, basically all this all academic. This is basically a failed product and we are laughing while it implodes.
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Aug 24, 2017 18:31
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C-Bangin' it 
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ManofManyAliases posted:I was told that we'd see a playable state of SQ42, albeit not for release to backers as of yet. My understanding is that the assets from the PU are used by both branches, but because SQ42 doesn't rely on the netcode and infrastructure requirements as does the PU, it's a much more simplified batch that is just being polished for the release that it's supposed to be. That said, I signed up for SC the MMO and I'm really just dying to see working scalability and netcode. Given that we now know your source is incorrect and that SQ42 is not "just being polished", what do you need to see tomorrow to not reach your aforementioned "tipping point" and what would make you start to consider pulling the ripcord?
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Aug 24, 2017 18:33
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Nicholas posted:does anyone have a list of good clips from todays stream? https://clips.twitch.tv/OddIntelligentOstrichBIRB - "Lowered Expectations"
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Aug 24, 2017 18:33
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Colostomy Bag posted:The speed of light and the size of atoms sucks from a theoretically CS standpoint. I know, I like to give my reasoning behind my standpoint that this thing is such a shitshower. I even like to theorycraft about how they could get around some of the issues*, but the fundamental problem they had - right up until last year - was that they were sending monolithic object state between the client and server. That's nut-poppingly basic. I mean, just consider the update rate of the client to the server, then multiply that by the number of clients in the instance, then consider that under load. The only people that have gotten close to this was Planetside 2, and the problems there were apparent (and exploited); although it's in the same speed regime as SC. So yeah, they don't have a handle on the most basic of things to the extent that a multiplayer shooter has. Edit: * Scaled microservices would work as simple lambdas, but that would actually increase the network traffic rather than reducing it, but it does broaden the processing surface somewhat. Throw in a large RDS cluster and you might get away with some GSLB balancing, but I'd probably want to locally shard the database to geographic locations; I'd want to test the binary replication speed of a master-slave/slave/slave read setup and sharded write setup. Scaling would be pegged to and upper/lower bound of 20%/60% utilization, with the option to throw a quick scaling factor out manually. Database is the weak point here, but Amazon does a fairly good job of abstracting away some of the problems, with one huge caveat - They're geared to 95% of their customer base, and that's NOT MMOs. Hav fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Aug 24, 2017 |
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Aug 24, 2017 18:41
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Eldragon posted:You have to go with the information you have available at the time. Back in 2012-2014 the project seems reasonable in scope and it had not been in development long enough to expect much output from CIG. But as time has moved farther on, and the project shows less progress, question were asked of CIG that they refused to answer. Yeah, in 2012 it was definitely a different experience from 2016. Within the span of a few months CIG had brought Erin Roberts on board, Eric Peterson and Rob Irving were doing regular updates (and being awesome at it), and all of the excitement was wrapped up in the fact that they were actually getting funded. 2013 wasn't that bad either; the hangar module was released on time (well delayed by a weekend) and at the end of the year Roberts had a perfectly valid excuse for why they wanted to delay (better to do it right instead of use it as a marketing gimmick). And sure enough four months later they revealed something, and three months after that people were playing. Then it all went to poo poo, with milestone after milestone being ignored and CIG maintaining silence where backers were expecting information. The improvements to core gameplay that people were expecting never materialized, and you had things like that gimmick video where the guy played an entire game of Arena Commander with just a mouse. Meanwhile the other modules were delayed again and again, 2015 was the highlight with 2.0 and Chris Roberts showing he cared more about the lovely chat system than the actual gameplay, and now we're looking at yet another year where Squadron 42 is nowhere to be seen. So it was definitely a gradual decline, which played a major role in why it took so long for people to leave. That said you're right; at this point anyone who didn't get a refund is on their own. Toops posted:Great post man. To be fair I was unabashed about my intentions to be the absolute bad guy, and basically bring about everything the Goons had done in EVE to this fresh new world of idiots and carebears. I was more infamous than famous. The problem was that the community couldn't handle anything that threatened their fragile mental picture of the game they had invested so much time and energy into loving, and reminding people about core problems like CIG setting expectations and then failing to meet them was about a direct a threat as you can get. That continues to this day, unfortunately, only the continued ordeals has filtered out most of the moderate backers and left a hardened core of complete assholes and cultists. You're right; Chris Roberts is not a game designer. He's a "visionary" who only focuses on the visuals and the impact while utterly incapable of working on the gameplay. His world is all about immersion and grandeur, which absolutely has a place but is meaningless if you can't execute anything. Look at the experience offered in the 3.0 protodemo. You have ships that can fly around, supposedly reach orbit, and carry other people who can interact through them. That's incredible! You can have so much fun if that was implemented in the right game. But the implementation is utterly poo poo. The servers can't handle enough people, the game code is jittery, simple interactions like getting into a loving seat are arduous and poorly defined, and there's no core gameplay loops or mechanics to focus on. It's something that looks great as a movie but is poo poo if you play it for more than fifteen minutes. It is absolutely an interactive movie, and it has about as much depth as using your DVR. peter gabriel posted:My story is a bit different to Beer's. Honestly I wish I had come in later so I could do just that. I also regret not transferring a ship to a different account before I quit, so I could continue to bullshit around and have fun watching things be terrible.
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Aug 24, 2017 18:43
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Aug 24, 2017 18:47
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Welcome to the
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Fangrim posted:Click "Profile" button, then" Add this user to your ignore list" Day crew vs Nite crew AbstractNapper posted:Are you on the forum beta? It's been disabled for that, along with every other feature, to provide you with a bug free experience. Because that's normal for software development now, since Crobblers paved the way.
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Aug 24, 2017 18:47
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AbstractNapper posted:I am partial to this one. Crash landing is in. We call those "Landng Succsfl" in the 'verse
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Aug 24, 2017 18:52
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 Disco: 'He fell out through the side door.'
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Aug 24, 2017 18:52
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AbstractNapper posted:I am partial to this one. Crash landing is in. 
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Aug 24, 2017 18:53
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SelenicMartian posted:
Doors have always been troublesome for CIG, even just recognizing one is a struggle.
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Aug 24, 2017 18:53
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big nipples big life posted:Doors have always been troublesome for CIG, even just recognizing one is a struggle.  Sometimes you have to use the sunroof. Eventually.
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Aug 24, 2017 18:56
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:To be fair I was unabashed about my intentions to be the absolute bad guy, and basically bring about everything the Goons had done in EVE to this fresh new world of idiots and carebears. I was more infamous than famous. The problem was that the community couldn't handle anything that threatened their fragile mental picture of the game they had invested so much time and energy into loving, and reminding people about core problems like CIG setting expectations and then failing to meet them was about a direct a threat as you can get. Maybe the thing that makes me the most sad about Star Citizen dying this slow death is that the networking basically makes the dream of a large group of goons griefing a large group of unsuspecting plebs impossible. All I really wanted was to get in on the ground floor of some Eve goon style griefing for the lulz. Chris Roberts has taken that from me.
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Aug 24, 2017 18:56
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big nipples big life posted:Doors have always been troublesome for CIG, even just recognizing one is a struggle. Thats because they are the boundaries between the physics grids of various entity. The "localised physic grids" Cryengine hack they did is nice, but it is definitely not stable. I'm sometime surprised the character dont get flung out of the map or fall into the center of the world everytime you exit an animation.
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Aug 24, 2017 19:00
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lol no way. This project was never believable even from the very start. As soon as Chris said 'BDSSE' and seamless transitions everything, Sandi/Ben nepotism, Pets stretchgoal, Chris' track record, Bootcha stuff, Simon Elms stuff. All that was in 2013. Nice confessional and meltdown beer, but they lost the plot as soon as they money started rolling in and people made excuses for Chris because you are all sad motherfuckers. This project took off because sad nerds are unable to see with with their eyes and think with their brains.
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Aug 24, 2017 19:00
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Taking bets on how many memes Chris awkwardly shouts during the presentation. I'm thinking he will do at least two JUST DO IT Shia's again.
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Aug 24, 2017 19:02
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:You don't understand it because you're not invested in it. Having been there, I can tell you that it's really loving hard to give up something after putting hundreds (if not thousands) of hours and dollars into a dream. Chris is extremely good at telling people what they want to hear, and the kind of people who are still invested are the ones who really want to hear it. Hell even now, nearly a year after I got my refund, I saw the Cutlass flying over the planet while the guy tried to snipe ships on the ground and thought "wow that looks really good, I wish I had kept my Cutlass because I could see that being a lot of fun". But then I saw the glitches, and the failures, and the reset, and remembered that no amount of dreams is going to make Chris any more competent or CIG any less hosed. It takes an immense amount of effort for someone to get outside of their perspective and see Star Citizen for what it is, as opposed to what people want it to be. Accepting that CIG has failed, that after nearly six years of development they have nothing close to what they should, also means that you need to accept that you as a backer have failed. You made a mistake and have wasted all of that time, effort, and (if you can't get a refund) money encouraging the ego of a narcissistic "visionary" who lacks the competence and professionalism to actually deliver on his marketing. You have to accept that you look like an idiot, and a lot of people would rather maintain the delusion than accept that. It's one of the ways that scammers maintain their scam. And remember, I was a big enabler back then too.
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Aug 24, 2017 19:04
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happyhippy posted:Taking bets on how many memes Chris awkwardly shouts during the presentation. Thankfully, that's already on the Bingo Card
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Aug 24, 2017 19:04
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Hav posted:I know, I like to give my reasoning behind my standpoint that this thing is such a shitshower. I even like to theorycraft about how they could get around some of the issues*, but the fundamental problem they had - right up until last year - was that they were sending monolithic object state between the client and server. Ah, yeah, I think a lot of us are trapped at various levels on how we would view how to handle things with current infrastructure and we are all sort of arguing over ourselves. Think some hosed up OSI model. You might be at the application layer. The funniest part is with 30 players online they could co-locate a few servers across the globe to provide decent ping rates without resorting to a cloud solution they may need with 1 million players. Because there isn't a loving game to play. e: spell check, i need it.
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Aug 24, 2017 19:05
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I am not a sad nerd I can see everything because I am everything. Seriously check out my blog posts all the way to 2012. I was arguing with all of you mofos even AP told me to shut up because he was on CIG's side. Every single sign was there from day 1.
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Aug 24, 2017 19:07
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Drunk Theory posted:Really not sure I'm appreciating the imagery of Chris Roberts pulling his Sandworm out of his pocket to amaze people on stage G0RF. I mean, I know what you are alluding to, but that imagery just grinds to a halt after that sentence. It's a rather unpleasant metaphor, Drunk Theory, but not unintentional. I honestly think that Chris's sense of personal worth/power/masculinity is tied up in this set of seasonal rituals they've built, and that for him, the big event revelations are the moments of maximum validation and satisfaction. While he shows very little sign of ethical concern or conscience, and is frighteningly at ease with abusing the trust of others, he is still addicted to the kick of adulation as a Gaming God and there is no happier moment in that man's life than to be standing before a crowd looking back at him with dropped jaws, joyous smiles, and thunderous applause. His time spent away from that spotlight is anxious and frustrated and sees him exercising power via the micromanagement of subordinates and frittered away in the meaningless, directionless work that is the curse of fussbudgetry. So with his season of deification once again upon us, he will revel in its shalllow, masculinating joys and dazzle with cinematic distractions that reinforce his narrative of self, "I am one of the greatest game designers alive." He recaptures his youth in these fleeting moments, when hard work, some talent and the fortune of good timing catapulted him to the heights of industry success and let him make his mark as a gaming god yet taught him too many wrong lessons that have become his psychic prison since. Now he is like King Nebuchadnezzar, a king in glory yet troubled by a dream of profound importance that he has nevertheless forgotten. His magicians and advisors would interpret it for him yet he can not recall what it was. But the dream will be revealed in time as that of an enormous idol of self, erected for mandated worship, with a head of gold that dazzles yet is held up by lesser metals of silver, then bronze, then iron and stands uncertainly on feet of iron and clay. For a little while longer yet. Yet it can not stand forever, its foundations were poorly built and groan under the sheer weight of its majestic pretense, and I suspect that despite his delusions of grandeur Roberts knows this. He hears it as whispers that never stop in the moments when the praise of others and the voices within quell as they occasionally must. So when the chance comes to revel in the deafening praise of his adoring citizenry he will seize it for all it's worth, and savor every glorious minute he can while his kingdom remains, his divinity believed. He will believe it himself for as long as he can, and forget the frightening whispers and troubling dreams until they reveal themselves as prophecies of a kingdom that has come to its end.
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Aug 24, 2017 19:08
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Where's Mirificus been?? I feel like i'm missing out on days and days worth of quality Reddit salt. Did his bot crash?
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Aug 24, 2017 19:08
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Aug 24, 2017 19:09
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Mne nravitsya posted:Where's Mirificus been?? I feel like i'm missing out on days and days worth of quality Reddit salt. Did his bot crash? Redditor tears are obscuring their vision too much for them to post.
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Aug 24, 2017 19:10
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I trolled the star citizen thread when it was 90% pro CIG. Its been a good ride.
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Aug 24, 2017 19:10
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HKS posted:I am not a sad nerd I can see everything because I am everything. Seriously check out my blog posts all the way to 2012. I was arguing with all of you mofos even AP told me to shut up because he was on CIG's side. <Internet Warlord Game> "A challenger has appeared!"
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Aug 24, 2017 19:10
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HKS posted:lol no way. This project was never believable even from the very start. As soon as Chris said 'BDSSE' and seamless transitions everything, Sandi/Ben nepotism, Pets stretchgoal, Chris' track record, Bootcha stuff, Simon Elms stuff. All that was in 2013. Nice confessional and meltdown beer, but they lost the plot as soon as they money started rolling in and people made excuses for Chris because you are all sad motherfuckers. This project took off because sad nerds are unable to see with with their eyes and think with their brains. Nice meltdown
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Aug 24, 2017 19:13
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:I also regret not transferring a ship to a different account before I quit, so I could continue to bullshit around and have fun watching things be terrible. Take it from someone who (accidentally) did exactly that - it's absolutely not worth it. The sad fact is there's just nothing there. I mean look at the handful of goons who still have accounts. The "game" destroyed Pgabz's will to make funny videos, and it's rapidly destroying my will to stream it. Most of the other goons try and hop on to raise hell with me when I'm on and we simply can't get together because there's only the withered husk of a party system. I mean I was talking about it with someone the other day and I realized that Star Citizen really isn't even a griefer's paradise because there's no order to it. There's nowhere to go and nothing to do, and the game is so completely broken that getting killed over and over again by one guy is wholly indistinguishable from the regular gameplay loop of getting killed over and over again by bugs, glitches, and lovely design. I mean there's part of me that wishes I had kept a bigger ship - because trying to get a kill in an Aurora with two guns and no missiles is like punching yourself in the dick over and over again - so I could be the guy parked at Kareah being an rear end in a top hat, but there's no god drat point to any of it. If you park somewhere and kill everyone who approaches, the 6 other people on the server will just go somewhere else. Or you'll run into King poo poo Megawhale who will show up in his brand new SpaceFucker 6000 and own you effortlessly because he spent $2500 and CIG thinks that's a perfectly fine reason to tell you to go gently caress yourself. The dream is dead, and it has been dead for a while. I was never in as deep as you - I was never a major figure in the community, outside of being one of the loudest people yelling about how the view in the Freelancer sucked - but I can promise you there's no residual love here. I mean poo poo, look at my regdate and you'll see that my fall from Star Citizen grace was pretty recent, comparatively. But there's nothing that I've seen since then that has brought back that weird hopeful feeling I had in 2012. This poo poo is done. The company may still be around, the 'game' may still be getting 'worked on,' but there's nothing behind those eyes and nobody should even entertain that thought for an instant. Beet Wagon fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Aug 24, 2017 |
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Aug 24, 2017 19:13
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I like space and someone told me to check out this thread, so I did. Have been lol'ing since. Thanks for reading!
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Aug 24, 2017 19:15
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Mne nravitsya posted:Where's Mirificus been?? I feel like i'm missing out on days and days worth of quality Reddit salt. Did his bot crash? Had a seizure due to epilepsy of Derek's rapid avatar changes.
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Aug 24, 2017 19:16
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So, um... I think they've used that broken-arm coder for mocap.
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Aug 24, 2017 19:17
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Mne nravitsya posted:Where's Mirificus been?? I feel like i'm missing out on days and days worth of quality Reddit salt. Did his bot crash? Yesterday there was very low activity. Today has been busier but mostly its been neutral to positive which owns still. They'll critizize the clipping or some poo poo and the 'its alpha' dogpile will start. They don't get it yet. Even the negative ones don't see the big picture.
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Aug 24, 2017 19:17
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Jobbo_Fett posted:I like space and someone told me to check out this thread, so I did. Someone told me SC was a scam in like 2013. I glanced at it, lol'd at the thought of anyone could believe this poo poo. then saw goons had like a 300k pledged spreadsheet. flexed my fingers and went to work FUD spreading in the thread. Took like 2 years away from this though.
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Aug 24, 2017 19:18
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