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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:That is a weird one but these were the kids of the World War II generation in Germany, right? And it was all wrapped up in the 60s counter-culture. It's not like anti-fascists that started fighting Nazi skinheads in the 70s and 80s shifted into waging a war against the state. Yes, but its been a very long time since the prevailing belief of the media and the public at large that large swathes of the population and leadership of the country are at best collaborationists which is the belief that led the RAF to act how they did.
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Aug 25, 2017 02:07
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:But what happens with the Nazis start wearing bandana's They're classified as a violent gang and the government cracks down on them
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Aug 25, 2017 02:08
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:So, I agree with this. There was a "March Against Israel" What if I want to want to "march against Israel"? Am I a Nazi?
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Aug 25, 2017 02:08
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please ignore the weirdo who is talking about gamergate as relative to political discourse in 2017 jesus christPanzeh posted:Condemning punching nazis because you might get a fellow traveller is like calling off the invasion of Normandy because the beaches are guarded by pressganged Georgians. I wouldn't condemn it and I don't think TTT is really doing anything other than suggesting a bit of scepticism and forethought. I'm fine with Nazi's getting punched, but I think calling everyone who questions its possible descent into mob violence or examines it beyond "Yay punch Nazi's!" as Nazi sympathisers is pretty unproductive and disingenuous. I think that antifa type movements have mostly done mostly good things, I'm pro confronting Nazi's and I'm pro self defense. My caveat is that I'm generally distrustful of large groups of people looking for a fight, especially when they're hyped up on black bloc anonymity. Mob mentality kicks in, you swap your brain for adrenaline and brass knuckles, and bad poo poo happens. Yes, I know the obvious answer that someone is going to post below me is that "it's the fascists/nazis/other guys who are the actual threatening violent mob, you loving idiot" and they're right. But I do think the increased normalisation of political violence on the left has triggered an escalation of arms and conflict at political events that's dangerous. You know how it's a talking point sometimes about how the military/police/peacekeepers need more training in conflict deescalation to keep situations from getting out of hand? Having a squad of guys in black looking to throw down is kind of the opposite of that. A few wrong punches and then you have a riot, and yeah "riots are the language of the unheard" blah blah blah but too many innocent, uninvolved people get caught in them and I ain't much of a fan.
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Aug 25, 2017 02:11
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:What if I want to want to "march against Israel"? Am I a Nazi?
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Aug 25, 2017 02:11
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:What if I want to want to "march against Israel"? Am I a Nazi? Its actually more illegal than being a nazi quote:he anti-boycott act would amend the Export Administration Act of 1979 – originally written to protect US companies from Arab League sanctions on Israel – to protect Israel and Israeli businesses from international boycotts of virtually any kind. Specifically, the bill would criminally penalize any US person seeking to collect information on another party’s relationship with Israel in pursuance of a boycott. http://www.jpost.com/BDS-THREAT/US-bill-on-Israel-boycotts-sets-up-free-speech-battle-501179
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Aug 25, 2017 02:13
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Byolante posted:Yes, but its been a very long time since the prevailing belief of the media and the public at large that large swathes of the population and leadership of the country are at best collaborationists which is the belief that led the RAF to act how they did. Edit: Or it was called "Rock Against Israel" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bw46OizJnA
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Aug 25, 2017 02:14
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Rock against Isreal and Rock Against Communism were both dogwhistles screaming "I'm a loving fascist" so loud that I'm not even sure they really count as dogwhistles or just bad naming conventions tbh.
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Aug 25, 2017 02:17
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:No, but believe me, this particular "March Against Israel" in 2002 was a Nazi thing. Yea I know. But I couldn't resist the example of action against israel = nazis.
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Aug 25, 2017 02:17
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Rock Against [something] is going to be some Nazi poo poo Except Rock Against Racism which was explicitly a response to them before some pedant points that out
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Aug 25, 2017 02:19
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:Yea I know. But I couldn't resist the example of action against israel = nazis. Nazis hate Israel for all the wrong reasons, depressing In another life they could have been friends
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Aug 25, 2017 02:20
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Grognan posted:Then define that poo poo better and establish boundaries. It's very simple, Adolf. You're a nazi and deserve to be assaulted if - You advocate for the genocide of minority races for the betterment of the glorious white race or - You're a member of a documented hate group or - You grift in alt-right circles or - You identify as alt-right or - You post on a chan or - You voted for Trump in the 2016 election or - You wear a maga hat in public or - You wear a red hat in public or - You're white and bald in public or - You defend other people's right to free speech or - You support a noted racist organization like the ACLU or - You disagree with the regulars on Something Awful I don't understand why people are worried about this very narrow definition. Maybe it's because they're actually nazis  BrutalistMcDonalds posted:So, I agree with this. There was a "March Against Israel" in 2002 that brought in hundreds of Neo-Nazis to Washington, D.C. and organized by the National Alliance in 2002. There is hardly any record of this. And I think things were probably way worse in the 50s and 60s with the Klan assassinations and bombings. The Greensboro massacre in 1979... Has bash the fash actually worked outside of punk circles? I can't find much about that sort of thing but I thought it only worked because the nazis eventually took the hint and hosed off to their own scene.
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Aug 25, 2017 02:21
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"Deserve" got nothing to do with whether you should actually be punched. That's a strategic concern.
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Aug 25, 2017 02:22
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Grognan posted:Then define that poo poo better and establish boundaries. Pretty much everything in this post is dumb. Nazis are pretty well defined, and I even provided a working definition earlier in this thread. There's also a big leap from advocating communally defensive violence like Antifa to the active repression of the state, which is what all the apologists itt keep trying to steer the discussion towards.
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Aug 25, 2017 02:26
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:communally defensive violence like Antifa BAHAHAHAHAHAHAH A
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Aug 25, 2017 02:28
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:BAHAHAHAHAHAHAH A There were way more local Antifa than there were Nazis in Charlottesville. Communities have a right to defend themselves from Nazi marches.
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Aug 25, 2017 02:31
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:hmm wow i've reconsidered my entire "punch nazis" worldview because of this one misunderstanding that a "lib" unironically retweeted from Ant Man's timeline he's more yellowjacket thats your deepish cut comics joke for the night waka waka fuckers
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Aug 25, 2017 02:35
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lol an entire half page of posts from mewling slippery slopists and overton window shifters nobody will read
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Aug 25, 2017 02:36
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Communal violence better have a loving good and solid definable and defensible threshold. Because if it does not, then all bets are off and that's how you get lynchings anyways. Open sectarian warfare is loving horrific and basically a death sentence for any secular national identity (that doesn't involve purging a target group, hey turkey how's it going). Noone is saying you cannot punch nazis, but wanting to nuke a standard of legal impartiality that the good guys still use and protects good guys is a bad move. Especially when it can backfire incredibly loudly. Most of the poo poo here recently has been cheerleading and trying to tar people with associations and labels. Noone is actually talking about CMC's points because even if the person that you think is a nazi says the sky is blue you gotta just say "he is nazi" and "the sky is red and we are carving that into nazi skulls".
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Aug 25, 2017 02:44
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Grognan posted:Communal violence better have a loving good and solid definable and defensible threshold. Because if it does not, then all bets are off and that's how you get lynchings anyways. Open sectarian warfare is loving horrific and basically a death sentence for any secular national identity (that doesn't involve purging a target group, hey turkey how's it going). Nobody is talking about his points for the same reason we don't discuss the role the molemen played in the Biden/Ryan VP debate
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Aug 25, 2017 02:46
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Grognan posted:Noone is saying you cannot punch nazis Have you actually read this thread?
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Aug 25, 2017 02:47
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Because it's stupid. It's real stupid. Everything he says is stupid.
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Aug 25, 2017 02:47
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gently caress you and your poo poo, you can't even acknowledge anything that doesn't agree with you here because it pokes holes in your moral blanket assurance that this communal violence is well and good. Lemme know if you got anything besides "its stupid".
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Aug 25, 2017 02:56
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Grognan posted:gently caress you and your poo poo, you can't even acknowledge anything that doesn't agree with you here because it pokes holes in your moral blanket assurance that this communal violence is well and good. Lemme just acknowledge Nazi apologia Not
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Aug 25, 2017 03:01
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Have you actually read this thread? My specific argument is its ok to punch nazis if they are threatening a pacifistic group. Rounding up your socal vigilante brigade and road tripping across the country for the sole intent of finding somebody to assault because you don't like what they have to say is not ok. Meet violence with violence, speech is not violence.
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Aug 25, 2017 03:02
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Making Nazis too terrified to organize in public is always good.
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Aug 25, 2017 03:02
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Grognan posted:Communal violence better have a loving good and solid definable and defensible threshold. Because if it does not, then all bets are off and that's how you get lynchings anyways. Open sectarian warfare is loving horrific and basically a death sentence for any secular national identity (that doesn't involve purging a target group, hey turkey how's it going). As the jackbooted nazis march through every city on the road to political victory for their corporate masters, the left's corpse can say "well, at least we didn't engage in communal violence".
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Aug 25, 2017 03:03
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Grognan posted:gently caress you and your poo poo, you can't even acknowledge anything that doesn't agree with you here because it pokes holes in your moral blanket assurance that this communal violence is well and good. now how does this complete unwillingness to engage with your "rational" arguments make you feel?????? now imagine if the person doing this didnt want 2 punch you, but instead shoot you in the head
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Aug 25, 2017 03:03
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meditate on that 4 a bit lil grasshopper and you mite just get it
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Aug 25, 2017 03:04
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Making Nazis too terrified to organize in public is always good. I cannot forsee normalising the use of fear to restrict speech possibly having negative consequences
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Aug 25, 2017 03:04
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Byolante posted:I cannot forsee normalising the use of fear to restrict speech possibly having negative consequences it's already normalized you loving mook or do you just close your eyes and ears when the police are used to beat blm protestors but stand idly by while people heil the swastika
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Aug 25, 2017 03:07
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sword_man.gif posted:it's already normalized you loving mook or do you just close your eyes and ears when the police are used to beat blm protestors but stand idly by while people heil the swastika It's kinda funny that people think the nazis don't know what they're doing like they get all their ideas from us.
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Aug 25, 2017 03:08
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Al! posted:now how does this complete unwillingness to engage with your "rational" arguments make you feel?????? now imagine if the person doing this didnt want 2 punch you, but instead shoot you in the head A lot better because internet antifa masturbators aren't leaving their domiciles or going to confront anything.
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Aug 25, 2017 03:10
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Panzeh posted:As the jackbooted nazis march through every city on the road to political victory for their corporate masters, the left's corpse can say "well, at least we didn't engage in communal violence". Last I checked the fascists were outnumbered 100-1 at the last major protest. Acting like the small minority of counter protesters willing to get violent is the magic bullet against a Nazi regime is kinda dumb.
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Aug 25, 2017 03:13
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Byolante posted:My specific argument is its ok to punch nazis if they are threatening a pacifistic group. Rounding up your socal vigilante brigade and road tripping across the country for the sole intent of finding somebody to assault because you don't like what they have to say is not ok. Meet violence with violence, speech is not violence. Good thing that doesn't happen
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Aug 25, 2017 03:15
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attackmole posted:Last I checked the fascists were outnumbered 100-1 at the last major protest. Acting like the small minority of counter protesters willing to get violent is the magic bullet against a Nazi regime is kinda dumb. And that had nothing to do with the major protest before that, not at all
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Aug 25, 2017 03:15
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Grognan posted:A lot better because internet antifa masturbators aren't leaving their domiciles or going to confront anything. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Oy6DwHAi70
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Aug 25, 2017 03:16
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attackmole posted:Last I checked the fascists were outnumbered 100-1 at the last major protest. Acting like the small minority of counter protesters willing to get violent is the magic bullet against a Nazi regime is kinda dumb. so what are you worried about, that you're gonna get called hitler on the internet and that sends out the Secret Signal for the local group to hide outside your front door and ambush you with a tire iron? because currently as it stands the only reason you have to be worried about getting thrashed is if you happen to be espousing just how great white supremacy would be in public.
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Aug 25, 2017 03:16
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:Good thing that doesn't happen LOL When I marched with my local occupy we literally had a briefing about the nomads that were coming from CA. That planned to violently escalate poo poo for our protest.
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Aug 25, 2017 03:16
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Grognan posted:A lot better because internet antifa masturbators aren't leaving their domiciles or going to confront anything. The leaning into the microphone to say wrong meme
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Aug 25, 2017 03:17
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