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Rivers of London is more "realistic", police procedural, and hyper accurate as to the London setting (the ghost in the first book speaks period accurate slang for the area of London it lived in, time period, and social class. With no explanatory footnotes). Probably the best prose of any current urban fantasy series. Protagonist is mixed race and well written as such. Verus is also good but a little more videogamey (the author is very involved in the XCOM modding scene). Overall tone is more fantastic and significantly darker, but done well (the protagonist's dark past he's trying to get away from is legit dark, and goes places that other UF I've read has been unwilling to). The main draw of the Very series is that they're popcorn page turners - everyone I've recommended them to ended up reading all eight books in a nonstop bender.
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Aug 25, 2017 17:13
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Verus is also good but a little more videogamey (the author is very involved in the XCOM modding scene) Hahaha, this explains so so much.
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Aug 25, 2017 17:32
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Rivers is better written, Verus is fun. I can't help but imagine Verus as Dale Gribble, but magical and competent. Hieronymous Alloy posted:Verus is also good but a little more videogamey (the author is very involved in the XCOM modding scene). Overall tone is more fantastic and significantly darker, but done well (the protagonist's dark past he's trying to get away from is legit dark, and goes places that other UF I've read has been unwilling to). The main draw of the Very series is that they're popcorn page turners - everyone I've recommended them to ended up reading all eight books in a nonstop bender. I am interested in what you mean by 'videogamey'. Do you mean in the way the mage powers interact? My only real complaint with Verus deals with the last two books, Burned, and Bound. Verus has been trapped under the thumb of other powers for a long while. When Arachne mentioned escaping the situation by becoming a greater power, I expected to see Verus making some real progress toward that. Instead, he ends up feeling somewhat reactive in both books. Still a lot of hanging threads. I would have liked to see him have some more wins. In the scene that mentions the monkey's paw and crocodile sword, I kinda expected them to get used in some sort of gambit or last stand. Then they faded into the background again. In the final scene of Burned, I thought he might have been setting Mordin up, drawing him into the house to lure him into a claymore trap. Nope. It ends up feeling like Verus is trapped between huge looming figures he can't possibly topple despite having a formidable arsenal of his own. Part of this factors into Verus' attitudes and flaws, but 
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Aug 25, 2017 19:24
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:I am interested in what you mean by 'videogamey'. Do you mean in the way the mage powers interact?:[/spoiler] Yeah, basically. Almost everyone other than Verus is an elemental mage and you can practically see him charting it out: Fire mages get bonus damage, Ice mages get crowd control effects and barriers, Earth mages get armor, Air mages get increased movement and attack speed, etc. The biggest complaint I have with Verus is the treatment of Anne -- she's in real danger of turning into a Woman Repeatedly Stuffed Into A Refrigerator.
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Aug 25, 2017 19:45
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah, basically. Almost everyone other than Verus is an elemental mage and you can practically see him charting it out: Fire mages get bonus damage, Ice mages get crowd control effects and barriers, Earth mages get armor, Air mages get increased movement and attack speed, etc. She has some parallels with Verus, in that they could have done more or could do more if they would cut loose. They both seem to be building toward that, but it is a slow burn. On Anne, I think that it would have been a little more interesting a little less cliche if Vari had been the one that was taken and Anne made the decision to take off the gloves when she rescued him. I dunno. I like Vari. I like most of the characters, really, but I appreciate that in a world of politics, plots, and manipulation, Vari can be relied upon for a good ol' "gently caress that guy."
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Aug 25, 2017 20:44
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The video-gameishnes is actually starting to sell me on the series, I mostly avoided it so far because "guy sees a bit into the future" sounds like a pretty boring (if certainly useful) power to have.
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Aug 26, 2017 13:50
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Avalerion posted:The video-gameishnes is actually starting to sell me on the series, I mostly avoided it so far because "guy sees a bit into the future" sounds like a pretty boring (if certainly useful) power to have. Verus basically treats divination as a dude constantly reloading his save game more than anything. (Which I never really thought about until it got mentioned above.) He's not seeing the future, he sees ten thousand different variations and sticks with the one that works even if it involves random poo poo he doesn't know why it works.
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Aug 26, 2017 14:51
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That's perfect. Alex Verus: save scummer extraordinaire! Guess this means Richard found a game genie.
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Aug 26, 2017 15:04
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ImpAtom posted:Hahaha, this explains so so much. Specifically, rom what I found searching his Reddit posts, he's involved with the Long War mod somehow, which from what I recall was a pretty good mod.
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Aug 26, 2017 15:44
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Specifically, rom what I found searching his Reddit posts, he's involved with the Long War mod somehow, which from what I recall was a pretty good mod.
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Aug 26, 2017 22:51
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Exmond posted:Yeah I got up to book 3 and I'm gonna drop the series. The world is cool and the main character is okay, but every time Curran shows up the book goes to crap. It's like Curran steals the spotlight form the main character because he is so alpha. Neither, read London Falling for the actual best current London urban fantasy.  Also dark as all hell. Calling it horror instead wouldn't be entirely out of place. I should reread it. The next two books are good but the first one is FANTASTIC. And the villain in the first is amazing. Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 08:55 on Aug 28, 2017 |
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Aug 28, 2017 08:53
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Neither, read London Falling for the actual best current London urban fantasy. London Falling and the Shadow Police series is a really good recommendation, even if it darker and kinda depressing
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Aug 28, 2017 09:01
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I feel like im the only person who didnt like uhhh peter grant? the main dude in the london underground series. He just sorta seemed needlessly cruel, petty, and just a poo poo person to me when I read the first 3 or 4 up to where they went to some bording school for black magic that was abandoned then spent a bunch of time in a guest cottage and there mighta been a lovely mermaid
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Aug 28, 2017 09:38
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Neither, read London Falling for the actual best current London urban fantasy. Trick answer that series is horror not fantasy
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Aug 28, 2017 13:04
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Giving Verus a try and it's better than it sounds, Alex is pretty much the Batman of mages, taking on other "supers" by being crazy prepared.
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Aug 28, 2017 13:57
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Avalerion posted:Giving Verus a try and it's better than it sounds, Alex is pretty much the Batman of mages, taking on other "supers" by being crazy prepared. I think my favorite thing is that the author realizes some of the things he gives Verus are overpowered, and makes sure they're destroyed or lost. It's nice seeing someone try to keep the power creep in check instead of Dresden where I'm pretty sure he could blow up the moon now.
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Aug 28, 2017 16:30
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Ramadu posted:I feel like im the only person who didnt like uhhh peter grant? the main dude in the london underground series. He just sorta seemed needlessly cruel, petty, and just a poo poo person to me when I read the first 3 or 4 up to where they went to some bording school for black magic that was abandoned then spent a bunch of time in a guest cottage and there mighta been a lovely mermaid No, Peter Grant is genuinely and honestly a pretty poo poo person. Some of it is intentional (the author has stated as much) so it depends on how you feel about that. To be fair a lot of UF protagonists are poo poo people but Peter Grant is by far the worst part of his own books to me.
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Aug 28, 2017 16:32
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xsf421 posted:I think my favorite thing is that the author realizes some of the things he gives Verus are overpowered, and makes sure they're destroyed or lost. It's nice seeing someone try to keep the power creep in check instead of Dresden where I'm pretty sure he could blow up the moon now. Dresden has had a ton of his overpowered poo poo destroyed, lost or downplayed. Remember the early "I'll make 2 potions per book which will each solve some unforseen issue" or the Bear Belt which gave him a full night of sleep, or Little Chicago, or Hellfire or most of his gadgets and gewgaws.
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Aug 28, 2017 16:36
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Ramadu posted:I feel like im the only person who didnt like uhhh peter grant? the main dude in the london underground series. He just sorta seemed needlessly cruel, petty, and just a poo poo person to me when I read the first 3 or 4 up to where they went to some bording school for black magic that was abandoned then spent a bunch of time in a guest cottage and there mighta been a lovely mermaid I wouldn't say cruel. Just a bit cynical, a tad self-centered, and not all that grown up. I probably wouldn't enjoy the series if it wasn't as well-written and ( in the case of the audio version ) narrated. ImpAtom posted:No, Peter Grant is genuinely and honestly a pretty poo poo person. Some of it is intentional (the author has stated as much) so it depends on how you feel about that. To be fair a lot of UF protagonists are poo poo people but Peter Grant is by far the worst part of his own books to me. It's true. Harry is a man child with a Krakatoa-sized temper, Verus undermines himself and uses people constantly, etc. For some people the flaws are endearing or interesting and make the character. Other people hate'm.
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Aug 28, 2017 16:38
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He always gets something more powerful to replace it - like the Mantel of Winter currently. Which makes sense considering the ultimate goal of the series. Fighting Outsiders with his pitiful first book abilities would be a bit odd. Verus on the other hand fights powerful, but inside the book universe normal, mages (Drakh's weird (non?)abilities aside).
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Aug 28, 2017 16:41
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Reading the first book I couldn't help wondering why Alex doesn't get a gun - with good aim and his divining he should be quite unstopable, pulling of perfect trickshots left and right.
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Aug 28, 2017 18:53
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Avalerion posted:Reading the first book I couldn't help wondering why Alex doesn't get a gun - with good aim and his divining he should be quite unstopable, pulling of perfect trickshots left and right. He uses guns in certain situations, but ECDing around guns in London isn't quite as easy.
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Aug 28, 2017 19:07
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Avalerion posted:Reading the first book I couldn't help wondering why Alex doesn't get a gun - with good aim and his divining he should be quite unstopable, pulling of perfect trickshots left and right. Part of it is that most forms of battle mage have protection against bullets in some form or another so despite trick shots being awesome they're not actually that useful. Part of it is that carrying a gun around London is generally a bad idea so he couldn't have it on him all the time so it isn't meaningfully different from any other dangerous artifact. He actually does have guns, they're just stored with the rest of his Dangerous poo poo stuff for that reason.
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Aug 28, 2017 19:15
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He DEFINITELY should have taken a page from drakh and made up a whole bunch of anti magic stones though. He already had the rechargeable focus and the fog globes, not sure why he never put them together.
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Aug 29, 2017 04:38
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Bhodi posted:He DEFINITELY should have taken a page from drakh and made up a whole bunch of anti magic stones though. He already had the rechargeable focus and the fog globes, not sure why he never put them together. I'm pretty sure that they mention in one of the books you need people to help you with that and Alex basically doesn't have the people willing to help him or the resources to pay people to help him.
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Aug 29, 2017 04:41
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ImpAtom posted:I'm pretty sure that they mention in one of the books you need people to help you with that and Alex basically doesn't have the people willing to help him or the resources to pay people to help him. Where? I thought the first time we saw that was the end of book 8 when Drakh just nullified that dude and popped him, and it surprised me at the time.
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Aug 29, 2017 05:14
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Where? I don't think those specific items but I thought I remember Alex mentioning mages selling poo poo. I know they do it for Gate Stones at least.
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Aug 29, 2017 06:02
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ImpAtom posted:resources to pay people to help him. Speaking of this, do the later books address why he isn't filthy rich via gambling/betting, or some such? Something similar to Harry's martyr complex I'm guessing.
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Aug 29, 2017 07:13
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Avalerion posted:Speaking of this, do the later books address why he isn't filthy rich via gambling/betting, or some such? Something similar to Harry's martyr complex I'm guessing. They mentioned it in the first book. Any mage can make themselves wealthy but because of that the magical world doesn't operate on a cash economy so it's kind of pointless. Excessive wealth just brings attention to yourself and requires upkeep so Verus doesn't bother. He does own a piece of London real estate and a secret country safe house so it's not like he is a pauper.
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Aug 29, 2017 10:51
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:They mentioned it in the first book. Any mage can make themselves wealthy but because of that the magical world doesn't operate on a cash economy so it's kind of pointless. Excessive wealth just brings attention to yourself and requires upkeep so Verus doesn't bother. He does own a piece of London real estate and a secret country safe house so it's not like he is a pauper. More than that, it also addresses why he doesn't just gamble up some wealth: too many factors go into the result of a die roll (the book's example), such that by the time one can pick a desired outcome the actual outcome's already been decided.
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Aug 29, 2017 14:04
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Aerdan posted:More than that, it also addresses why he doesn't just gamble up some wealth: too many factors go into the result of a die roll (the book's example), such that by the time one can pick a desired outcome the actual outcome's already been decided.
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Aug 29, 2017 14:29
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He owns poker because he knows every deal, but doesn't like taking money from most individuals.
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Aug 29, 2017 15:06
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Bhodi posted:He DEFINITELY should have taken a page from drakh and made up a whole bunch of anti magic stones though. He already had the rechargeable focus and the fog globes, not sure why he never put them together. I think it's for two reasons. One is that Alex believes himself as being somewhat less capable than he is, despite all evidence. The other is that it has been mentioned that many magical items take a quantity of costly investments in the way of time, ingredients, connections, whatever. A lot of his tools are simple items used in unexpected ways. Ones that can take down elemental shields must require some significant effort to obtain or create, or elemental mages wouldn't be as big a deal as they are. There is one other reason. You're Alex, and most everyone is suspicious of you, hates you, or just plain doesn't like you. You start collecting a bunch of items that would make it easy for you to
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Aug 29, 2017 19:00
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Peter Grant hasn't ever struck me as a particularly bad guy. 
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Aug 29, 2017 19:07
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anilEhilated posted:Eh, I've read it pretty recently and I'm fairly sure he explicitly said he got the money for his shop by abusing blackjack and slot machines. Luna gets the money needed to rebuild it the same way. Yeah, he mentioned that after he escaped he made serious money at casinos. It's just before he gets attacked by the vigilantes for the first time IIRC.
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Aug 29, 2017 19:31
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Re Kate Daniels - girl has the alphaiest boyfriend for a very good reason and not just because he's so dreamy. because she is a the daughter of a world breaker scale mage and was trained to kill from birth. If she goes bad like Daddy, the world is wrecked. Curran is the only one she thinks is strong enough to take her down if necessary
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Aug 29, 2017 19:39
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Im less of a fan of London falling than others in this thread. I really like the concept and how dark it gets but the history section of the first bored me, and the second one was disappointing when the object of Doom turned out to be a damp squib.
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Aug 29, 2017 19:45
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Wheat Loaf posted:Peter Grant hasn't ever struck me as a particularly bad guy. He's a bit of a oval office, but in a way that feels realistic and formed life experiences.
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Aug 29, 2017 20:12
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ShinsoBEAM! posted:He's a bit of a oval office, but in a way that feels realistic and formed life experiences. Yeah I totally agree with this assessment. He's also less aware of it than the people around him are (as is often the case) which rubs some readers the wrong way.
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Aug 29, 2017 20:34
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tessiebee posted:Re Kate Daniels - girl has the alphaiest boyfriend for a very good reason and not just because he's so dreamy. because she is a the daughter of a world breaker scale mage and was trained to kill from birth. If she goes bad like Daddy, the world is wrecked. Curran is the only one she thinks is strong enough to take her down if necessary I don't think you get to that point by Book 3 though, by book 3 curran has 1) Broke into her house and watched her sleep 2) Be alpha as fuuuuuck and hes so strong and hes so amazing 3) Broke into her house and ate her food 4) Been alpha because "THE PACK" but not have a good reason for it 5) Offered her food which apparently means they are in a relationship 6) Been talked about a lot, but rarely shown, to have anything but fight fight fight mentality 7) Been "The muscle" when kate needed rescuing It's just too much and too weak of a character for me to put up with. If it gets better that's great. I think not being into paranormal romance (And not having read those novels) killed the series for me. Apparently the Kate Daniels book makes fun of the typical paranormal romance tropes but all it seemed to do was have every male want to bone Kate.
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Aug 29, 2017 20:44
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