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TrilliontonNixon posted:You know what this person is actually right on the money. We are pants shittingly incompetent. I mean christ if this has got us at each other's throats what gently caress are we gonna do when a real crisis hits? capitalism is the fluke of fossil fuels human nature never had a chance to catch up t h a t i s w h y i t m u s t b e s u p e r s e d e d
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Aug 30, 2017 07:23
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im def not gonna participate in local dsa chapter things that immediately can start helping peopel around me because some texan is on a list of useless people who dont affect me at all
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Aug 30, 2017 07:29
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bump_fn posted:im def not gonna participate in local dsa chapter things that immediately can start helping peopel around me because some texan is on a list of useless people who dont affect me at all every texan is on a list of useless people hth op
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Aug 30, 2017 07:29
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TrilliontonNixon posted:You know what this person is actually right on the money. We are pants shittingly incompetent. I mean christ if this has got us at each other's throats what gently caress are we gonna do when a real crisis hits? houston had a real crisis hit this last weekend and we raised $75,000 for relief efforts, rehoused families that were flooded, have organized with numerous other orgs doing relief work with undocumented people, volunteered at the different shelters taking people in, donated materials to groups housing people, still made time to go to the bar and build community with each other, etc. maybe that's why when I log on and hear about danny I have a hard time taking these really mad internet people seriously when they say it's the death of dsa. we built dsa here and we're still doing real work, just like always.
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Aug 30, 2017 07:30
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jarofpiss posted:houston had a real crisis hit this last weekend and we raised $75,000 for relief efforts, rehoused families that were flooded, have organized with numerous other orgs doing relief work with undocumented people, volunteered at the different shelters taking people in, donated materials to groups housing people, still made time to go to the bar and build community with each other, etc. Yeah but the imporant question is how did you help socialism online
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Aug 30, 2017 07:35
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Michael Bayleaf posted:Yeah but the imporant question is how did you help socialism online he gave us an accomplishment to be proud of and share joyfully with each other
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Aug 30, 2017 07:40
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tweets are capital
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Aug 30, 2017 07:42
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I just really, really hate online culture. It turns perfectly reasonable, decent people into utter shitheads. I'm terrified of a future where we're debating what exactly socialism is going to look like, but we're doing it on some future twitter that only allows you to communicate in emojis.
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Aug 30, 2017 07:42
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TrilliontonNixon posted:I just really, really hate online culture. It turns perfectly reasonable, decent people into utter shitheads. Hillary already made this reality
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Aug 30, 2017 07:44
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Chairman Danny will seize the emojis of production and distribute a five year plan of economic development with a visual guide of our manufacturing goals for every worker to memorize and execute upon
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Aug 30, 2017 07:46
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TrilliontonNixon posted:I just really, really hate online culture. It turns perfectly reasonable, decent people into utter shitheads. 🌹🌽🥀🥔🍩
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Aug 30, 2017 07:51
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mrbradlymrmartin posted:every texan is on a list of useless people hth op 
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Aug 30, 2017 07:54
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if youre seriously quitting dsa cus of this youre a dumbass
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Aug 30, 2017 07:59
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It's cool how the old white people on the NPC ignored the black and brown people on the NPC and voted to keep the cop organizer despite them being told it was already directly affecting coalition work
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Aug 30, 2017 08:13
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Glad we got gatekeepers. Glad DSA is a centralized organization to keep Yup, nothing autonomous about it at all.
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Aug 30, 2017 08:28
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TrilliontonNixon posted:The way the NPC is chosen is uncomfortably reminiscent of the electoral college. "You don't pick the candidates you pick people who then pick the candidates." TBQH its really strange that the last direct(er) democracy i can think of is the early Soviet Union. The NPC needs to be a 500 member body with a governing councilate of 20 people and 1 chairman who doesn't get to do anything besides put Chairman, Democratic Socialists of America on their email signature and get coffee for everyone. Also using our ~~ magical encrypted totally foolproof online system ~~ the members are the ones who vote on the issues, and the councilors just get to set the agenda and talk about it Im mostly joking but I think if you had a really solid way of verifying identity (uh, make people pay for background checks on themselves maybe?) a direct democracy would be possible
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Aug 30, 2017 08:29
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ThndrShk2k posted:Glad we got gatekeepers.  /i like to imagine your posts are being said by ron paul- since then the gibberish suits
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Aug 30, 2017 08:31
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gently caress. marry. t-rex posted:i like to imagine your posts are being said by ron paul- since then the gibberish suits ThndrShk2k has issued a correction as of 08:42 on Aug 30, 2017 |
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Aug 30, 2017 08:34
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Oh and just to put this out there, why in gently caress do YDSA NPC members only get a half vote? Can college kids really not be trusted with the awesome power of 1/16 of this worthless committee?
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Aug 30, 2017 08:38
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TrilliontonNixon posted:Oh and just to put this out there, why in gently caress do YDSA NPC members only get a half vote? Can college kids really not be trusted with the awesome power of 1/16 of this worthless committee? it'd be 2/16. right now they get 1/15. i think it comes from an idea of them being a different organization so they just get to be the tie breaker or something, idk, it's dumb. Just give ydsa 3/17 spots to avoid ties.
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Aug 30, 2017 08:48
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gently caress's sake this org is a rusty old junker. The loving libertarian party has a better site than us, our bylaws were last amended in the pleistocene, and our leadership structure would make Caesar blush.
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Aug 30, 2017 09:02
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YDSA should have all the votes. Dictatorship of the Teen. Also anyone that was in DSA before like, February needs to be purged pronto.
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Aug 30, 2017 09:08
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Many of us joined DSA because we were tired of unaccountable elected officials and trusting a stupid, broken process. If our tiny rear end org can't run better than the three branches of US government, that's a problem. There were *MULTIPLE* missteps in the whole NPC election. DSA has grown something like 500%, growing pains are to be expected. That said, we need to fix our process if we're going to go around trying to fix THE PROCESS. That discussion should be on-going and done in good faith.
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Aug 30, 2017 09:39
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I'm splintering the DSA to create an even more Fetonteist org
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Aug 30, 2017 10:02
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Wrangling with systems is a practical reality for all any group of people larger than a book club. That poo poo is never going away. You're playing a probability game. The important thing is that it works the majority of the time, and that the damage is contained when it inevitably fails. If you can't do that, it's only a matter of time before the org self-destructs. Which is why running everything off twitter is bad, because there's no way to contain damage. That's why you need the 'centralism' in 'democratic centralism'.
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Aug 30, 2017 10:10
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I'll take the creaky, messy version over the centralist version, which seems to be basically what cop-man is doing in Austin.
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Aug 30, 2017 10:28
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Centralized systems are cool and good... As long as I'm running them.
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Aug 30, 2017 11:22
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fermun posted:it'd be 2/16. right now they get 1/15. i think it comes from an idea of them being a different organization so they just get to be the tie breaker or something, idk, it's dumb. Just give ydsa 3/17 spots to avoid ties. platzapS has issued a correction as of 11:30 on Aug 30, 2017 |
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Aug 30, 2017 11:25
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I really don't understand all the hate for democratic centralism. I see it all the time in this thread and when I meet DSA people irl they treat it like some weird boogie man. Democratic centralism is literally just democracy. We all vote on something, make a decision based on that vote, and then do the thing we voted on. if you disagree with the decision, you still have to abide by it but can continue to voice your displeasure and attempt to reverse the decision at another vote. The reason its a big deal that people abide by the decision even if they disagree is because if you're actively engaging in disruptive activity like civil disobedience, you need to have a group that you know won't have someone go against the decision of the group by punching a cop or throwing a brick through a window and potentially risk getting all of you arrested. It also means you can have faith that your comrades in other areas are operating in about the same fashion so there's no worry that an individual or a whole branch in somewhere like, oh who knows let's just say Austin Texas, is making your org look bad by doing stuff that the rest of the org would never do and finds reprehensible. like it's fine if you dont like the idea of democratic centralism, nobody is forcing you to use it or like it, but its not This One Weird Trick to Summon the Ghost of Stalin.
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Aug 30, 2017 11:27
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apropos to nothing posted:This One Weird Trick to Summon the Ghost of Stalin.
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Aug 30, 2017 11:31
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fetonte's whole style gives me swp vibes so i hope you get rid of him before centralising
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Aug 30, 2017 11:32
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apropos to nothing posted:I really don't understand all the hate for democratic centralism. I see it all the time in this thread and when I meet DSA people irl they treat it like some weird boogie man. Democratic centralism is literally just democracy. We all vote on something, make a decision based on that vote, and then do the thing we voted on. if you disagree with the decision, you still have to abide by it but can continue to voice your displeasure and attempt to reverse the decision at another vote. The reason its a big deal that people abide by the decision even if they disagree is because if you're actively engaging in disruptive activity like civil disobedience, you need to have a group that you know won't have someone go against the decision of the group by punching a cop or throwing a brick through a window and potentially risk getting all of you arrested. It also means you can have faith that your comrades in other areas are operating in about the same fashion so there's no worry that an individual or a whole branch in somewhere like, oh who knows let's just say Austin Texas, is making your org look bad by doing stuff that the rest of the org would never do and finds reprehensible. like it's fine if you dont like the idea of democratic centralism, nobody is forcing you to use it or like it, but its not This One Weird Trick to Summon the Ghost of Stalin. Sir this is the Austin police department lobby please leave.
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Aug 30, 2017 12:22
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BrainParasite posted:Many of us joined DSA because we were tired of unaccountable elected officials and trusting a stupid, broken process. If our tiny rear end org can't run better than the three branches of US government, that's a problem. Have you considered that if you don't like the idea of rewriting the rules to purge the same person over and over you hate black people???
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Aug 30, 2017 12:31
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I wonder if being trapped in an endless cycle of Twitter-based purity recalls would hurt 'coalition building'
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Aug 30, 2017 12:56
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If the local DSA here decided to become democratic centralists I'd run away screaming as fast as I can
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Aug 30, 2017 13:04
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you, a foolish revisionist: danny is acting in a tyrannical manner like Stalin me, full of revolutionary wisdom: Stalin was good actually, so that's a compliment and thank you 
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Aug 30, 2017 13:11
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I asked them jokingly at the social meeting and I didn't get a clear answer This is very concerning
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Aug 30, 2017 13:17
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apropos to nothing posted:This One Weird Trick to Summon the Ghost of Stalin. revisionists hate it!
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Aug 30, 2017 13:21
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apropos to nothing posted:It also means you can have faith that your comrades in other areas are operating in about the same fashion so there's no worry that an individual or a whole branch in somewhere like, oh who knows let's just say Austin Texas, is making your org look bad by doing stuff that the rest of the org would never do and finds reprehensible. That's the first problem. It's fine if a party votes a certain way and that's the platform, but the second problem is that requiring party members to abide by decisions doesn't bother with the question of what they're asking to abide by.
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Aug 30, 2017 13:26
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we're gonna stop assholes from hurting our efforts.........by avoiding assholes forever!!
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