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Guinness posted:You guys don't actually unmount/remount tires on the same wheels twice a year do you?? And if you're an apartment-dweller, not confident enough in your mechanical skills to invest in tools, or value time more than money, you can get it done by professionals in about as much time (and they'll apparently store your tires for you in some places).
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Aug 29, 2017 23:22
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AWD/4WD doesn't help you stop any faster though.
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Aug 29, 2017 23:28
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KakerMix posted:AWD/4WD doesn't help you stop any faster though. As my old man used to say "4WD? Just means you get bogged twice as quick"
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Aug 29, 2017 23:34
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KakerMix posted:AWD/4WD doesn't help you stop any faster though. As a kid in VT I always enjoyed looking at all the dumb gently caress BMW SUV drivers with CT and NJ plates mashed in to some trees at the side of the road.
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Aug 30, 2017 00:18
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Cocoa Crispies posted:And if you're an apartment-dweller, not confident enough in your mechanical skills to invest in tools, or value time more than money, you can get it done by professionals in about as much time (and they'll apparently store your tires for you in some places). I don't know. Any time I go to the tire shop it turns into a massive time sink. Also lol at the tire guy being anything approaching a professional.
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Aug 30, 2017 00:54
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You Am I posted:As my old man used to say "4WD? Just means you get bogged twice as quick" i live in the land of upside down 4x4 pickups on bald as gently caress tires. its magical, in its own terrible way.
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Aug 30, 2017 01:37
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Human Grand Prix posted:The Dodge RAM Van was even worse, TBH. It very obviously was a 70s holdover and by the end was embarrassingly out of date. The 199x 12-passenger Ram Van I occasionally used for my job on an air force base is the worst vehicle I've ever driven by a vast, gaping margin.  Anyway, what's the deal with Australia getting all the Stinger news? Details on the V6 trim levels: http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/kia-stinger-details-revealed-65007.html
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Aug 30, 2017 02:07
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mobby_6kl posted:Sorry, insulation has weight so it's not getting added. They added like 100 lbs of various sound deadening measures between 2016 and 2017 and now it's the quietest car in the segment. Mr. Apollo posted:Is there any reason why there aren't more AWD minivans? I feel like more electrification will lead to more AWD minivans coming back as you can run an electric rear motorset without a driveshaft heading up front.
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Aug 30, 2017 04:53
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:you're leaving out additional maintenance, repair, and fuel costs over the life of your vehicle in your little analysis Well you're right there. Having never owned an AWD car I had no idea they were mechanical nightmare money pits. I've also never owned a car past 132k miles so I've never even experienced the cost of transmission/drivetrain issues. Out of curiosity, what maintenance is involved in AWD ownership vs. FWD?
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Aug 30, 2017 05:50
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davebo posted:Well you're right there. Having never owned an AWD car I had no idea they were mechanical nightmare money pits. I've also never owned a car past 132k miles so I've never even experienced the cost of transmission/drivetrain issues. Out of curiosity, what maintenance is involved in AWD ownership vs. FWD? AWD cars are not mechanical money pits, Kyoon is exaggerating as he often does. You will take a slight MPG hit (usually 1 or 2 MPG city/hwy) and there are other mechanical components, e.g. differential and driveshaft involved. Differentials aren't wear items but they can have issues like any moving drivetrain component, and they are lubricated with gear oil. Often the gear oil has no replacement interval, so that's up to you. There is virtually no difference in maintenance required. I suppose if one of your tires is really worn or screwed up you can damage the differential, but that's very rare and they're designed with a tolerance. Quattro 
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Aug 30, 2017 06:19
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DEUCE SLUICE posted:They added like 100 lbs of various sound deadening measures between 2016 and 2017 and now it's the quietest car in the segment. 
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Aug 30, 2017 11:38
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Michael Scott posted:AWD cars are not mechanical money pits, Kyoon is exaggerating as he often does. You will take a slight MPG hit (usually 1 or 2 MPG city/hwy) and there are other mechanical components, e.g. differential and driveshaft involved. they aren't money pits but in your dumb cost analysis to pretend that there is no additional cost involved is amateurish
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Aug 30, 2017 11:45
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davebo posted:Well you're right there. Having never owned an AWD car I had no idea they were mechanical nightmare money pits. I've also never owned a car past 132k miles so I've never even experienced the cost of transmission/drivetrain issues. Out of curiosity, what maintenance is involved in AWD ownership vs. FWD? they're not really nightmare money pits but there are more points of failure and in particular Subaru AWD drivetrains are a bit sensitive to tires Usually when poo poo starts to go wrong with the center diff in a Subaru it's time to put her down
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Aug 30, 2017 11:46
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Usually when poo poo starts to go wrong with the center diff in a Subaru it's time to put her down Uh no not really, if I with my limited mechanical abilities can remove and reinstall the center diff in my driveway then there's no reason that a center diff problem is a death sentence dude
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Aug 30, 2017 11:50
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Cocoa Crispies posted:And if you're an apartment-dweller, not confident enough in your mechanical skills to invest in tools, or value time more than money, you can get it done by professionals in about as much time (and they'll apparently store your tires for you in some places). Well I do it and it's absolutely no problem! Like a half-hour job twice a year what's the big deal? *looks at stack of tires in corner that have nowhere else to sit that I've converted into a very lovely-looking lampstand* it's good that those are there; I love it Still less of a pain than going to a tire shop and having them do it I guess and I can abide the ... car-themed decor
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Aug 30, 2017 14:51
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stevobob posted:Uh no not really, if I with my limited mechanical abilities can remove and reinstall the center diff in my driveway then there's no reason that a center diff problem is a death sentence dude on a car you like and care about on a 200k mile stock Legacy, probably not
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Aug 30, 2017 15:00
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AWD is good at making bad drivers feel like good ones so i guess that's a good thing right
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Aug 30, 2017 15:05
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I think a lot of people are succumbing to AI bias yet again. The AVERAGE CONSUMER is not going to keep a spare set of tires in their living room, nor are they going to swap a center differential on their Subaru. They'll take it to a dealer when it makes a funny noise, get some highball quote and either trade it in or take it to a cheaper mechanic who gives them a more reasonable quote. If there truly are places that'll store your winter tires for you that sounds like a great option, and if I'm totally incorrect and more people are actually putting winter tires on FWD vehicles than just buying awd and driving around on bald all-seasons like I see all the drat time then I'd love if consumer reports or something would do a study so I could see numbers on that. As for now my gut feeling is that consumers will continue to view awd as that magic option they absolutely need because they get a few inches of snow twice a year and it'll keep their precious children safe.
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Aug 30, 2017 15:23
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davebo posted:I think a lot of people are succumbing to AI bias yet again. The AVERAGE CONSUMER is not going to keep a spare set of tires in their living room, nor are they going to swap a center differential on their Subaru. They'll take it to a dealer when it makes a funny noise, get some highball quote and either trade it in or take it to a cheaper mechanic who gives them a more reasonable quote. If there truly are places that'll store your winter tires for you that sounds like a great option, and if I'm totally incorrect and more people are actually putting winter tires on FWD vehicles than just buying awd and driving around on bald all-seasons like I see all the drat time then I'd love if consumer reports or something would do a study so I could see numbers on that. As for now my gut feeling is that consumers will continue to view awd as that magic option they absolutely need because they get a few inches of snow twice a year and it'll keep their precious children safe. If I lived somewhere RWD and summer tires didn't work year-round and enjoy caring about my car this would probably be me.
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Aug 30, 2017 15:51
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davebo posted:I think a lot of people are succumbing to AI bias yet again. The AVERAGE CONSUMER is not going to keep a spare set of tires in their living room, nor are they going to swap a center differential on their Subaru. They'll take it to a dealer when it makes a funny noise, get some highball quote and either trade it in or take it to a cheaper mechanic who gives them a more reasonable quote. If there truly are places that'll store your winter tires for you that sounds like a great option, and if I'm totally incorrect and more people are actually putting winter tires on FWD vehicles than just buying awd and driving around on bald all-seasons like I see all the drat time then I'd love if consumer reports or something would do a study so I could see numbers on that. As for now my gut feeling is that consumers will continue to view awd as that magic option they absolutely need because they get a few inches of snow twice a year and it'll keep their precious children safe. Kind of a shame as I think people putting snow tires on (don't some countries require it?) would prevent a hell of a lot more accidents than the AWD obsession. AWD won't save you if you go into a corner too fast, it won't help you stop. I think people really do think it's magic in general though
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Aug 30, 2017 16:05
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davebo posted:I think a lot of people are succumbing to AI bias yet again. The AVERAGE CONSUMER is not going to keep a spare set of tires in their living room, nor are they going to swap a center differential on their Subaru. They'll take it to a dealer when it makes a funny noise, get some highball quote and either trade it in or take it to a cheaper mechanic who gives them a more reasonable quote. If there truly are places that'll store your winter tires for you that sounds like a great option, and if I'm totally incorrect and more people are actually putting winter tires on FWD vehicles than just buying awd and driving around on bald all-seasons like I see all the drat time then I'd love if consumer reports or something would do a study so I could see numbers on that. As for now my gut feeling is that consumers will continue to view awd as that magic option they absolutely need because they get a few inches of snow twice a year and it'll keep their precious children safe. I certainly agree that the average consumer feels that AWD is the solution but it's lamentably wasteful, that's all.
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Aug 30, 2017 16:55
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The average consumer also doesn't seem to understand drivetrain maintenance, at least judging by the people I know that went from Hondas to Subarus or Audis.
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Aug 30, 2017 17:11
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That's why the term "lifetime fluid" exists. when the fluid is worn, the transmission fails, and you buy a new car.
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Aug 30, 2017 17:13
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In unrelated news, Kia is bringing a new concept to Frankfurt.  
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Aug 30, 2017 18:29
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Wistful of Dollars posted:In unrelated news, Kia is bringing a new concept to Frankfurt. 
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Aug 30, 2017 18:37
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Wistful of Dollars posted:In unrelated news, Kia is bringing a new concept to Frankfurt.  Go on...
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Aug 30, 2017 18:43
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Wistful of Dollars posted:In unrelated news, Kia is bringing a new concept to Frankfurt. What I don't understand is that this cool rear end wagon is supposed to be a wagon variant of the Cee'd? Which I really only know from the Top Gear star in a reasonably priced car segment, so I'm assuming it's FWD with fairly anemic power?
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Aug 30, 2017 18:44
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davebo posted:What I don't understand is that this cool rear end wagon is supposed to be a wagon variant of the Cee'd? Which I really only know from the Top Gear star in a reasonably priced car segment, so I'm assuming it's FWD with fairly anemic power? Oh, that makes me considerably less excited about it. Once it gets bludgeoned by the bean counters and manufacturing engineers to look and cost like a Cee'd it'll be snoooooooze. Too bad it's not a wagon variant of the Stinger.
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Aug 30, 2017 18:47
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When you look that good you don't need to be fast.
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Aug 30, 2017 18:47
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Question: how can we, non-car people, be expected to understand drivetrain maintenance when it is literally not mentioned in the manual or service schedule in most cases?
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Aug 30, 2017 18:50
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Guinness posted:Oh, that makes me considerably less excited about it. Once it gets bludgeoned by the bean counters and manufacturing engineers to look and cost like a Cee'd it'll be snoooooooze. That's what I assume will happen. I just don't know why they bother designing an awesome concept that's not going to look anything like the production model due to costs. That's one thing I really liked about the Camaro and Challenger is that they figured out what was doable beforehand and then all they had to do was put the concepts into production that way. Super cool ideas that just end up being poo poo are like the automotive equivalent of fan fiction.
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Aug 30, 2017 19:00
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Michael Scott posted:Question: how can we, non-car people, be expected to understand drivetrain maintenance when it is literally not mentioned in the manual or service schedule in most cases? It is? All of my cars owners manuals mention it and they are 2wd Manual cars.
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Aug 30, 2017 19:05
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I've owned like 4 cars and never seen it mentioned. What does that mean, lubricating seals etc.? Or do you mean inspecting struts and rubber bushings? I wasn't counting inspections.
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Aug 30, 2017 19:08
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Michael Scott posted:Question: how can we, non-car people, be expected to understand drivetrain maintenance when it is literally not mentioned in the manual or service schedule in most cases? 1) Go to dealer. 2) Give them money 3) No, more than that 4) See you next year
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Aug 30, 2017 19:20
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Cars are so ridiculously expensive compared to most goods that I'd think a manufacturer including solid details on maintenance (say, a free service manual in the glovebox) could be a selling point. Even in today's disposal culture, I feel like cars are expensive enough that it would be marketable. For my Audi in the manual under changing headlight bulbs it only says "Because of the complexity of this job, please bring the vehicle to the dealer service department." Not kidding. It doesn't require dropping the bumper.
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Aug 30, 2017 19:24
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yeah cause you probably have to pull the stupid rear end bumper off to remove the headlight a lot of wear items are going to be caught by regular inspection of the car as a whole, or you wait till something goes wrong. most of the time these companies aren't going to know and maintain a list of comprehensive failure rates for things like seals, struts, bushings because it really depends on driving conditions and the fact that there are variances in how well parts are manufactured, assembled and maintained.
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Aug 30, 2017 19:26
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Michael Scott posted:Cars are so ridiculously expensive compared to most goods that I'd think a manufacturer including solid details on maintenance (say, a free service manual in the glovebox) could be a selling point. I had a 2003 Nissan Altima and it said the same thing. It isn't new.
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Aug 30, 2017 19:38
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Are there any new cars that don't tell you when maintenance is due?
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Aug 30, 2017 20:32
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fknlo posted:Are there any new cars that don't tell you when maintenance is due? There can't be if money is made on service. The car screaming that you have to go spend money at it at the dealership is probably at the top of the design requirements for a new model.
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Aug 30, 2017 20:35
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davebo posted:What I don't understand is that this cool rear end wagon is supposed to be a wagon variant of the Cee'd? Which I really only know from the Top Gear star in a reasonably priced car segment, so I'm assuming it's FWD with fairly anemic power? The Cee'd is a Golf, basically. I like the blatant ripoff of DS3 sharkfin.
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Aug 30, 2017 21:20
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