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Injuries and toying-with aside, Finn gets points for squaring off with the galaxy's probable only lightsaber user, Vader grandson, sole(?) surviving pupil of Luke, etc. Speaking of which. What if the Last Jedi is Kylo Ben
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Aug 29, 2017 17:24
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There's no evidence that Kylo has had much experience at all in lightsaber dueling. There haven't been many wielders around in his lifetime that he could have possibly fought, and I picture his destruction of Luke's school as more of an Anakin/younglings situation than an all-out lightsaber battle. Who knows, Luke may have refused to teach lightsaber combat altogether, maybe that had something to do with Kylo's fall to the dark side.
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Aug 29, 2017 17:43
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Basebf555 posted:There's no evidence that Kylo has had much experience at all in lightsaber dueling. I feel like we get a lot of evidence that he's very good with a lightsaber on a mechanical level but not particularly experienced or disciplined in combat. This was something they actually did a really good job with during his and Finn/Rey's fight. He could have dropped Finn easily, but he sort of toys with him, then Finn gets a hit in and Kylo ends it quickly. Like the planet's literally exploding but he's making time to screw around? Instead of reading Rey or focusing more he focuses less, there's a lot of points where he does these huge wide swings for the moon as it goes on and some extra spin that looks ferocious and "correct" mechanically. But you can tell he's not totally with it and is doing a lot of this stuff, like, in Rey's direction and not necessarily to her in a way a more experienced combatant would. Rey has no experience with a lightsaber, but she's been in fights all her life since she was a kid just to stay alive. Yanyan Rubian and some other people who worked on The Raid and its sequel worked on Force Awakens for choreographing its melee fights. Were they involved in anything since or was that a one off thing? They should do like a Jedi Power Battles movie and let them make an all out melee battling flick.
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Aug 29, 2017 18:02
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Yeah I agree with most of what you both say. I've been thinking for awhile that Kylo's clunky DIY saber was made in response to the Luke New School saying no lightsabers. This also dovetails with the end of 7 (pointing yet another lightsaber that was used to kill a bunch of Jedi in training) and the beginning of 8 (which I assume will be Luke wanting to remain hands-off but gradually being persuaded back to action, as Rey and Luke both learn from one another)
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Aug 29, 2017 18:12
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Basebf555 posted:There's no evidence that Kylo has had much experience at all in lightsaber dueling. There haven't been many wielders around in his lifetime that he could have possibly fought, and I picture his destruction of Luke's school as more of an Anakin/younglings situation than an all-out lightsaber battle. Who knows, Luke may have refused to teach lightsaber combat altogether, maybe that had something to do with Kylo's fall to the dark side. See, this is why I really want to know more about who the hell the "Knights of Ren" are. If they're going to be a continuation of the Acolytes of the Beyond from the Aftermath books, then they'll be more Sith fanboys, collecting whatever artifacts they can, especially masks and lightsabers. It certainly fits with Kylo in TFA, and the Rey dream sequence...thing...showed what I assume are more Knights of Ren wearing similar masks. If that's the case, they presumably they would practice together. But from their name I'm guessing they're just a group Kylo started to do his bidding or something? You'd have thought we'd have actually met some of them if that were the case, Kylo was pretty loving busy with important poo poo during TFA. The Knights of Ren are the only Abrams mystery box thing from TFA that actually bug me. Rey can have a mysterious hinted at path, I'm fine wondering who Snoke is, but the Knights of Ren feel like a half formed thought at this point.
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Aug 29, 2017 18:21
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I want them to be Metal Gear Solid boss fights. Edit: By which I mean colourful assholes with gimmicks that have one cool battle and then blow up. Like these guys: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWc2qS4tDPU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G67-_dk8-yk MonsieurChoc fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Aug 29, 2017 |
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Aug 29, 2017 19:49
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thrawn527 posted:See, this is why I really want to know more about who the hell the "Knights of Ren" are. If they're going to be a continuation of the Acolytes of the Beyond from the Aftermath books, then they'll be more Sith fanboys, collecting whatever artifacts they can, especially masks and lightsabers. It certainly fits with Kylo in TFA, and the Rey dream sequence...thing...showed what I assume are more Knights of Ren wearing similar masks. If that's the case, they presumably they would practice together.
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Aug 29, 2017 20:05
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FlamingLiberal posted:I really wish they had put more backstory into the movie instead of the supplemental stuff. Well, that might not be who the Knights of Ren are, I'm just speculating. But it seems obvious to me that they're related, since yes, they absolutely are putting background info into the books, and the connection to Kylo seems obvious to me. But it might be nothing.
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Aug 29, 2017 20:09
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MonsieurChoc posted:I want them to be Metal Gear Solid boss fights. Also, Snoke must be a Dark Souls boss fight.
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Aug 29, 2017 20:20
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Ferrinus posted:Also, Snoke must be a Dark Souls boss fight.
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Aug 29, 2017 20:31
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Ferrinus posted:Also, Snoke must be a Dark Souls boss fight. Theyll summon two force ghosts to do all the work while they hide in the corner?
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Aug 29, 2017 20:37
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Barudak posted:Theyll summon two force ghosts to do all the work while they hide in the corner? The phantom menace.
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Aug 29, 2017 20:40
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thrawn527 posted:See, this is why I really want to know more about who the hell the "Knights of Ren" are. If they're going to be a continuation of the Acolytes of the Beyond from the Aftermath books, then they'll be more Sith fanboys, collecting whatever artifacts they can, especially masks and lightsabers. It certainly fits with Kylo in TFA, and the Rey dream sequence...thing...showed what I assume are more Knights of Ren wearing similar masks. If that's the case, they presumably they would practice together.  They had a cool idea with there being lots of factions and groups that, after all the stuff that went down over the past 60 years went down, know the force is real and does stuff but don't quite have a feel or how to use it the way they want to. So it makes sense you'd get Max von Sydow's Church of the Force character, Kylo's knights collecting old artifacts, and so on. I forget how long Force Awakens is but it felt kind of breakneck to me, I don't know if I'd have minded Von Sydow's character being around a little longer or some more of Kylo before the two meet up on Jakku. That whole aspect of the movie felt halfbaked without supplemental materials. Weirdly Rogue One of all movies goes all in on that with the Jedha characters.
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Aug 29, 2017 21:07
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Would have been cool if they made it clear what Von Sydow's character does or even who he is anywhere in the movie.
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Aug 30, 2017 01:31
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Raxivace posted:They'll defeat Snoke by getting behind him and backstabbing a bunch of times? Snoke is even bigger IRL than he is in hologram and Rey has to dodge roll around his feet, avoiding his gigantic lightsaber, while slicing at his ankles.
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Aug 30, 2017 03:03
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Ferrinus posted:Snoke is even bigger IRL than he is in hologram and Rey has to dodge roll around his feet, avoiding his gigantic lightsaber, while slicing at his ankles. Or she fires a grappling cable up at his groin and then runs around his legs with the rope, making zooming noises. He falls, and his head explodes.
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Aug 30, 2017 03:08
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Ferrinus posted:Snoke is even bigger IRL than he is in hologram and Rey has to dodge roll around his feet, avoiding his gigantic lightsaber, while slicing at his ankles. Why not just use harpoons and tow cables?
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Aug 30, 2017 03:15
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And then a sudden shad ow its Yodi!
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Aug 30, 2017 04:22
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Pops Mgee posted:Would have been cool if they made it clear what Von Sydow's character does or even who he is anywhere in the movie. He gets killed, so he does something in the film.
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Aug 30, 2017 05:58
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Pops Mgee posted:Would have been cool if they made it clear what Von Sydow's character does or even who he is anywhere in the movie. It might be revisited in the TLJ.
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Aug 30, 2017 07:00
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Pops Mgee posted:Would have been cool if they made it clear what Von Sydow's character does or even who he is anywhere in the movie. He's a leader/priest of a Jedi/Force religion outpost and loyal to liea. He's been involved with Skywalker family and is esteemed .
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Aug 30, 2017 14:37
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euphronius posted:He's a leader/priest of a Jedi/Force religion outpost and loyal to liea. He's been involved with Skywalker family and is esteemed . Where do they say this? Please don't read this as, "If it's not in the movie, it doesn't count." I actually want to know. edit: *reads Wookieepedia entry on his* Well, this at least kind of explains how he had a map to where Luke went. edit2: I hadn't realized they had somewhat fleshed out his backstory. I really like it. It would have been nice to have, like, any of it in the movie. Something like, "I helped Luke rediscover much that was lost about the Jedi Order. So when I heard he went in search of the original Jedi temple, I knew this map may help." thrawn527 fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Aug 30, 2017 |
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Aug 30, 2017 15:43
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The only thing in my description not arguably in the movie is that they were specifically Jedi / Force acolytes although that is a very reasonable assumption since they are multi species and wiped out by Ren.
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Aug 30, 2017 16:32
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His lines in the movie at least come across as vaguely mystical, but I think it's easy to confuse him for a devotee of specifically the royal house of Alderaan instead of the Force or the Jedi.
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Aug 30, 2017 16:34
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This line I think points to Jedi priest Lor San Tekka: This will begin to make things right. I've traveled too far and seen too much to ignore the despair in the galaxy. Without the Jedi, there can be no balance in the Force. But you are right since that is lieas stated motivation he could also be a knight errant type tied to her .
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Aug 30, 2017 16:38
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euphronius posted:The only thing in my description not arguably in the movie is that they were specifically Jedi / Force acolytes although that is a very reasonable assumption since they are multi species and wiped out by Ren. I'd say there's nothing that directly states he's a priest or a leader/holy man at all. He's in the group, but that's about it. He's not shown to be leading anything. Zoran posted:His lines in the movie at least come across as vaguely mystical, but I think it's easy to confuse him for a devotee of specifically the royal house of Alderaan instead of the Force or the Jedi. Yeah, his line about how Leia is always a Princess to him, or whatever it was, said to me he was from Alderaan. It's all extremely ambiguous. edit: euphronius posted:This line I think points to Jedi priest That could just mean he's a weary old traveler who thinks things were better with the Jedi. Again, I'm not saying you're wrong. But based on the movie alone, it's one of many interpretations that could be reached.
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Aug 30, 2017 16:39
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Sure you can read things tons of ways . I think the movie makes it obvious he was the priest leader . After he is killed they don't talk to some other head honcho before they kill the rest . This seems like a typical way movies deal with "rebel gangs". I haven't seen the movie for awhile but he is dressed differently and has his own tent . It's also Max Von Sydow so yeah I mean wouldn't you expect him to be the leader. Additionally he is politically connected . But you are right there is no popup video blurb or expository dialog to nail it down. Edit I suppose he could have been an important operative on the run or "retired" and hiding out with a friendly sect . euphronius fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Aug 30, 2017 |
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Aug 30, 2017 16:50
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Also he's very religious but also not a Jedi which makes me think "ok he's like a Jedi deacon" or whatever . Who even has talked about the dark side of the force besides Jedi and Sith in the movies before this? And yet he's obviously not a Jedi.
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Aug 30, 2017 16:54
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thrawn527 posted:I'd say there's nothing that directly states he's a priest or a leader/holy man at all. He's in the group, but that's about it. He's not shown to be leading anything. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume "leader" status, even if only for that group in the desert. He is singled out and brought to Kylo. After personally killing him, Kylo bails and lets the henchmen take care of everyone else.
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Aug 30, 2017 17:37
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Mr. Funny Pants posted:I don't think it's unreasonable to assume "leader" status, even if only for that group in the desert. He is singled out and brought to Kylo. After personally killing him, Kylo bails and lets the henchmen take care of everyone else. Because he's who Kylo was there for. He didn't give a poo poo about anyone except the dude he A) knew and B) knew had the map. It's not unreasonable, but Vader going to Hoth looking for Luke doesn't mean Luke is the leader of the Rebellion either.
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Aug 30, 2017 17:57
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thrawn527 posted:Because he's who Kylo was there for. He didn't give a poo poo about anyone except the dude he A) knew and B) knew had the map. It's not unreasonable, but Vader going to Hoth looking for Luke doesn't mean Luke is the leader of the Rebellion either. Good point.
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Aug 30, 2017 18:01
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Aug 30, 2017 19:14
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Pretty big Luuke there.
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Aug 30, 2017 19:33
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Cool hand, Luke.
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Aug 30, 2017 19:34
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I'm fairly cynical about Star Wars these days but daaaaamn I can't help but feel a lil excited by this
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Aug 30, 2017 19:37
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Imagine worshipping the Jedi and their teachings when you don't have the ability to throw things around with your mind. How ridiculous is that?
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Aug 30, 2017 20:42
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sassassin posted:Imagine worshipping the Jedi and their teachings when you don't have the ability to throw things around with your mind. How ridiculous is that? Imagine worshiping some dude that can walk on water and transmogrify liquids into alcoholic beverages without having those abilities yourself. How ridiculous is that? Edit: yes, I realize a good chunk of the worlds population is ridiculous.
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Aug 30, 2017 20:45
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Lemme just point out this was Mark Hamill five years ago: Amazing what a new movie trilogy will do to you Mark looks so alive nowadays - he's almost unrecognizable
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Aug 31, 2017 04:54
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Vinylshadow posted:Lemme just point out this was Mark Hamill five years ago: That is because his facial hair is hiding how bad he really looks.
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Aug 31, 2017 04:56
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I really could use those Disney drugs.
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Aug 31, 2017 05:00
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