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rkajdi posted:Globalization is the regime of free trade that will even the value of employment across nations. Eventually. The reality is that in the short to medium term, some aspects of globalization destroy local industry and distort local supply and demand through the addition of global demand for local products. International trade is generally good. International exploitation of living conditions, regulatory regimes and wages is pretty much terrible. You don't have to support the WWC to realize that people everywhere can get screwed by the imbalance of supply and demand and the exploitation of regional and international differences. Of course, given the increasing pace of automation (and climate change), very few are going to be able to actually reap the benefits of globalization.
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Aug 30, 2017 03:33
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I object to the fact that you appear to believe the only reason anyone should have a better life is if they emigrate to america and that you refuse to see that perhaps there is some sort of international arrangement that keeps it this way. What about the people who aren't the best and brightest? The people you don't want to poach away and have work for you out of desperation? How do you rationalize keeping entire countries in poverty in order to provide a steady stream of people desperate enough to give their lives to enrich the place you were born in? OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Aug 30, 2017 |
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Aug 30, 2017 03:34
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OwlFancier posted:Look don't come blaming us when our historical and current attempts to destabilize everywhere that isn't here result in poor conditions in your country, it's your fault for allowing your best and brightest to emigrate to here and do work for us instead, you're never going to bootstrap your way out of poverty as a country if you don't embrace liberalism and force people to stay where they were born instead of emigrating to wealthier nations you stupid nativist. Don't you know that eventually the wealth will trickle back internationally and then we'll all be equal?? This. Brain drains create monopolies on talent, pretty much preventing the original nation from ever "getting its act together".
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Aug 30, 2017 03:35
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OwlFancier posted:Also lol in that you think the US became a major world power because of immigration, I'm sure it had nothing whatsoever to do with the genocide of the indigenous population of an entire continent and the enslavement of millions of members of another one to feed the white ethnostate for hundreds of years. Uh, you do know most colonist were showing up to escape either religious or ethnic oppression, right? I'm in no way defending what was done to the Native Americans or slaves, but people fleeing the post-reformation conflicts made up a decent chunk of our German immigrants early on. And even though the Puritans were massive shitlords, they were fleeing oppression in their home country. You saw similar stuff in other colonies where Catholics could practice freely. Also, what do you see the immigration waves from Ireland or Southern Europe as? It was people leaving lovely conditions in Europe to have a shot at a better life in the US. Why do you see this as a bad thing instead of a way to reclaim a bunch of lost potential while also making the country better off?
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Aug 30, 2017 03:44
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"I'm not excusing genocide or slavery but those poor Europeans had a right to invade America and live fat off slavery." "The Americans wouldn't have done anything worthwhile! The Europeans had so much potential! Americans didn't even write or poo poo!"
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Aug 30, 2017 03:46
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OwlFancier posted:I object to the fact that you appear to believe the only reason anyone should have a better life is if they emigrate to america and that you refuse to see that perhaps there is some sort of international arrangement that keeps it this way. Again, you're telling people to live lesser lives because they had the bad fortune to be born into a shithole of a country. That's a pretty rich attitude to have coming from someone living in one of the better off countries in the Western world. quote:What about the people who aren't the best and brightest? The people you don't want to poach away and have work for you out of desperation? How do you rationalize keeping entire countries in poverty in order to provide a steady stream of people desperate enough to give their lives to enrich the place you were born in? You're a loving piece of work. I've never met someone "Give me your weak, you tired, you huddle masses" and seen it as a bad thing from a leftist position. I can't say that anymore, and it's a sad thing. If you had your way, everyone would be stuck in some localized ethnic conclaves, since moving anywhere is stealing from where you were born. Beyond just the holding people into broken little provincial lives, that is one of the best ways to keep ethnic identity strong, which is a sure fire way to increase conflict.
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Aug 30, 2017 04:04
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You aren't asking for the weak tired and huddled, you're asking for the educated, skilled, and motivated. That's how immigration laws work and explicitly what you keep saying you want.
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Aug 30, 2017 04:06
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OwlFancier posted:You aren't asking for the weak tired and huddled, you're asking for the educated, skilled, and motivated. That's how immigration laws work and explicitly what you keep saying you want. I think before I said I was fine with both. Besides, the best way to get winners from other countries is to cast a wide net, since average is still a win for you, just less of one. Immigrants have to be motivated by definition, since if they weren't motivated, they wouldn't have spent the effort to leave their home countries. How hard is this basic stuff to understand?
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Aug 30, 2017 04:33
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For my part I believe in 100% open borders from and to anywhere. Anyone should be able to live and work anywhere hindered only by the language barrier and their willingness to overcome it and culture shock.
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Aug 30, 2017 04:35
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rkadji's politics and values are contradictory, weird, and stupid. my head is spinning trying to imagine the world where their ideas are actually put into practice. like some kind of awful Galt's Gulch wrapped up in a technocratic veneer.
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Aug 30, 2017 06:03
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rkajdi posted:Globalization is the regime of free trade that will even the value of employment across nations. I'm both in favor of free trade and open immigration. Do you believe the Free Market creates a Just World?
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Aug 30, 2017 06:47
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Or in the case of companies that want to move to Malaysia, taking advantage of actual slavery.
Kokoro Wish fucked around with this message at 07:37 on Aug 30, 2017 |
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Aug 30, 2017 07:34
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A reminder to newcomers and oldbies alike that rkajdi unironically supports the idea of a strict meritocracy because it totally wouldn't devolve into plutarchy 10 seconds after establishment, and is basically a single bad day away from wholeheartedly embracing his title text.
Playstation 4 fucked around with this message at 08:00 on Aug 30, 2017 |
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Aug 30, 2017 07:57
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Playstation 4 posted:A reminder to newcomers and oldbies alike that rkajdi unironically supports the idea of a strict meritocracy because it totally wouldn't devolve into plutarchy 10 seconds after establishment, and is basically a single bad day away from wholeheartedly embracing his title text. So yeah, a lanyard.
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Aug 30, 2017 08:05
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I like that some of the policies rkajdi (and others) have suggested are harder to imagine coming about and working than the creation of communism. I guess that's the lengths you have to go to legislate capitalism into anything approaching what people think equality is.
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Aug 30, 2017 08:35
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Lightning Lord posted:So yeah, a lanyard. The gently caress's a lanyard?
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Aug 30, 2017 09:50
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Somfin posted:The gently caress's a lanyard? centrist, washington consensus type. the kind of person that sees politics as a sport and goes to political conferences (hence lanyard).
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Aug 30, 2017 13:33
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Aug 30, 2017 14:12
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quote:Nah she doesn't count for some bullshit Nazi apologist reason.
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Aug 30, 2017 14:18
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Martian Manfucker posted:rkadji's politics and values are contradictory, weird, and stupid. my head is spinning trying to imagine the world where their ideas are actually put into practice. like some kind of awful Galt's Gulch wrapped up in a technocratic veneer. Its bog standard classical liberalism. Free movement of peoples is supposed to offset global wage disparity caused by free movement of capital. This happens in theory by allowing people from poor countries to immigrate to wealthier countries and effectively prevent wealth accumulation through the exploitation of cheap labor. Wealthier people may also immigrate to the poorer countries to take advantage of the cheaper living standards. Enough migration in both direction should eventually even out both the living standards and the wages (there are other reasons this happens, but I'm leaving them out for now). The main weaknesses in this thesis are: - Most free trade agreements include only free movement of capital but not people. Immigration is jealously guarded everywhere except for the EU, and even then the UK is a good example of how badly that can backfire. - Even if free movement of peoples were allowed, this takes generations to kick in. Exploitation can continue in the meantime. - Most poor people are practically too poor to immigrate, trapping them. Global demand for a specific commodity can destroy local economies and trap people in their global ghettos even further. - By the time people in the poorer economy accumulate enough wealth, wages go up and labor protections are instituted, corporations may choose to move on to cheaper labor markets and prevent the equalization before it happens. - Lots of unintended side-effects like tying economies to cash crops that crash the economy when the market eventually dips (Russia and oil, for example). If free movement of people alongside free movement of capital were actually the rule, instead of the exception... this policy would be mildly defensible. However, given that its not and given all the externalities, its not really coherent. Pembroke Fuse fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Aug 30, 2017 |
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Aug 30, 2017 14:53
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The argument essentially boils down to "wealth inequality is self solving because people with money employ people without money and obviously that means the people without money will eventually end up with all the money" To which I respond: "On the other hand, recorded history." For someone who supposedly stopped being a libertarian you definitely didn't seem to understand why they're dumb.
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Aug 30, 2017 15:05
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OwlFancier posted:The argument essentially boils down to "wealth inequality is self solving because people with money employ people without money and obviously that means the people without money will eventually end up with all the money" Shocker, that's also not my argument. I'm for a robust social welfare state and GMI, since that's the only thing that's going to get through the pending automation crisis. It creates a backstop so people can live a life, but also creates an incentive to work while we still need labor. I simply don't trust the white working class to not stab me in the back as soon as I give them the opportunity, as seen by the Civil Rights era and just last year by them voting Trump in the Midwest. I'm for free trade because it increase interdependence between countries (which helps reduce war by giving an economic incentive to continue to co-operate) and help sever the connection between nation and ethnicity. It's not a surprise that two of the most problematic states currently (Afghanistan and North Korea) are two of the least economically connected. The post Cold War relative peace we've had is due to the interconnectedness of nations. Libertarianism is dumb because it's an obvious cover for racists to trash civil rights by pushing the right of free association (i.e. segregation) and reducing the size of the government to constrain individuals that get out of line and protect people from exterior threats. Your anarchism has the same exact failing and the same pie in the sky optimism about how people will act better than they have throughout human history. Hell, you're the person who made an argument that if I'm mistreated in my country I shouldn't be able to leave it. That's entirely set up to create lovely ethno-states where everyone but the local majority is harshly persecuted. That's a step backward from where we are now into the lovely past.
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Aug 30, 2017 16:12
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Illusion 2017 edition, apparently. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Aug 30, 2017 |
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Aug 30, 2017 16:45
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rkajdi posted:Your anarchism has the same exact failing and the same pie in the sky optimism about how people will act better than they have throughout human history. If only a renowned anarchist had rebutted this tired argument almost 130 years ago.
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Aug 30, 2017 16:47
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aau545r6OXE
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Aug 30, 2017 18:45
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im the right nipple that's peeking out of the trenchcoat
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Aug 30, 2017 19:04
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rkajdi posted:I simply don't trust the white working class to not stab me in the back as soon as I give them the opportunity, as seen by the Civil Rights era and just last year by them voting Trump in the Midwest. I like how the white upper class is completely blameless for this despite constituting the majority of Trump's voter base.
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Aug 30, 2017 20:12
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I Before E posted:I like how the white upper class is completely blameless for this despite constituting the majority of Trump's voter base. Pretty much this, anecdotal and what the hell ever but me and everyone I know voted against them, a whole bunch of poor, mostly white people. Not to say poor people can't be assholes or something either, but while people wanna be 'woke' about poo poo boy do a whole lot still love some classism, look at how easily things like "trailer trash" still come out. Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Aug 30, 2017 |
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Aug 30, 2017 20:45
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Stop linking to that loving guy jesus christ
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Aug 30, 2017 20:59
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black pigeon refers to his style of dress + the best single word description of the chest he likes to show off, right?
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Aug 30, 2017 21:04
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MiddleOne posted:Stop linking to that loving guy jesus christ
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Aug 30, 2017 21:06
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I Before E posted:I like how the white upper class is completely blameless for this despite constituting the majority of Trump's voter base. rich people can't be racist or otherwise because only the dirty poors have the ability to be racist. ever hear of s rich white person profiting off of racism? what's absolutely hilarious to me is that if rkadji were to actually present an empirical argument for his elitism, he'd have to go to HBD and galtonian biodeterminism.
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Aug 30, 2017 21:21
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Kjoery posted:we really need to mail him a shirt He wears shirts in some of the thumbnails of his videos which just makes me wonder how he decides which one (or none) he's going to wear in a specific video.
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Aug 30, 2017 21:28
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boner confessor posted:black pigeon refers to his style of dress + the best single word description of the chest he likes to show off, right?
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Aug 30, 2017 21:44
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Guavanaut posted:No, shirtless guy is Youtuber Styxhexenhammer666. BPS is the guy Kevin Logan described as a more ignorant and delusional version of Davis Aurini. Also far less amusing. You can have fun with Aurini, BPS is just sickening.
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Aug 30, 2017 22:16
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rkajdi unaware that the group that went strongest for trump was suburban white middle and upper class voters that clinton was specifically targeting
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Aug 30, 2017 22:23
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yeah it's not the white workers who are the problem at all it's the ford dealership fascists who are the real power base of trump.
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Aug 30, 2017 23:04
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OwlFancier posted:"I'm not excusing genocide or slavery but those poor Europeans had a right to invade America and live fat off slavery." I mean, rkajdi's obviously dumb, weird and wrong but most regular immigrants to the United States in the 19th century from places like Ireland perceived the slave system to be disadvantageous to them since they would have to be competing against people working for literally nothing and was one of the reasons why the South was so much more unattractive than the North for such immigrants. Of course they also hated the prospect of freedmen heading North or West and competing for similar jobs which often lead to horrible racist violence, so it's complex.
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Aug 31, 2017 04:52
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rkajdi posted:It's not a surprise that two of the most problematic states currently (Afghanistan and North Korea) are two of the least economically connected. The post Cold War relative peace we've had is due to the interconnectedness of nations.
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Aug 31, 2017 09:26
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Terrible Opinions posted:One of those was very internationally connected until a bunch of rich white guys in the 1980s decided to crush it for no reason and allowed religious extremists to take over during the following power vacuum. Free trade did nothing to help them against the evil of rich white people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet%E2%80%93Afghan_War  Living up to your username I suppose
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Aug 31, 2017 09:33
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