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strap on revenge posted:re: which roadhouse scenes are "real", someone in a podcast (I think it was twin peaks rewatch) noted that some of the roadhouse scenes are introduced through the reflection of the neon sign in a puddle on the ground and could be a reference to being the "other" bang bang bar. it sounds like it has merit but someone would have to go back through the episodes and see if it seems to line up That was mentioned in this thread immediately after the latest episode. It's possible the podcast got that theory from here.
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Aug 31, 2017 03:43
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wa27 posted:Why would Cooper say goodbye to Bushnell for good ("I will not soon forget your kindness") if he wanted to keep working for him? Not working for Bushnell has nothing to do with going back to Janey-E and Sonny Jim. Those are two separate things.
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Aug 31, 2017 03:45
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...! posted:That was mentioned in this thread immediately after the latest episode. It's possible the podcast got that theory from here. No, what was mentioned in this thread was that the framing of the reflected sign in the puddle is similar to the oil pool in glastonbury grove, and then some other stuff about similarities between the lodge and roadhouse. unless I missed a post like you describe. wa27 posted:Why would Cooper say goodbye to Bushnell for good ("I will not soon forget your kindness") if he wanted to keep working for him? I think coop intends to go back to Vegas but not continue to work at lucky 7. I'm sure there's a Nevada FBI field office. The Walrus fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Aug 31, 2017 |
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Aug 31, 2017 03:46
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The Walrus posted:I think coop intends to go back to Vegas but not continue to work at lucky 7. I'm sure there's a Nevada FBI field office. I'm pretty sure the WILSON! guys are Vegas local FBI. Coop working with those guys. Can you imagine? 
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Aug 31, 2017 03:50
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Gloveboy is going to punch the wig off Doppelcooper, turning him good, and he is going to be the new Dougie.
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Aug 31, 2017 04:01
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Thinking on it more (not really, just been drinking) I really really don't want any more Twin Peaks after this season. My opinion could change after the finale, but I already view this season as a "season 2, but shot a thousand times better and more thoroughly conceived" but still the lows out number the highs and I could watch through it again once it's concluded skipping episodes and not care in the slightest. I know I'll get dog piled, again, because I'm expressing a dissatisfaction towards some of the basic storytelling, again, but I think I have pretty valid points (and I've held off judgement until right before the finale just so I have the opportunity to be floored). Everyone sites that the new season draws more heavily on FWWM than the actual show that it's based on and I agree. My outlook differs in that FWWM is a decent movie (once again I know it's gonna be held up to the utmost standard by people) but it didn't contain a lot of things that made Twin Peaks, well Twin Peaks. It may have truly been Lynch and Frost's true vision for the series if network intervention didn't manipulate it in the beginning, but I'd be willing t bet if the series started out like FWWM then no one would have watched it and it would have been a total failure. The movie very much benefited from the popularity and good will of the show. I think this season would have been absolutely fantastic if the studio had managed to negotiate a little bit of control over it. Giving Lynch and Frost the keys to the castle is getting us a much better and more plotted out season 2, but with spikes of quality that surpass season 1. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I feel like this entire season so far has been incredibly uneven. My favorite parts rival my favorite parts in any other show, but the lows feel even lower than season 2 lows because the characters they involve have had less and worse screentime dedicated to them. Once again, this could all change with the finale. And if there's one thing Lynch nails it's finales, but I don't think everything is going to be tied up or even explained at all in the end. I think we'll get an "end" the same way we got an end the first time the series stopped. I'll be OK with that, in fact I'd like it to be honest, but once it's over I don't think I'll bother watching even if there is a season 4. I like Lynch's work, but I just think something that he brings to films is lost when he spends too much time on one particular thing. I'll take my ribbing off the air. Thank you.
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Aug 31, 2017 04:29
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not liking parts is one thing but season 2 lows? lil nicky? james hurleys invitation to love? maid josie?
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Aug 31, 2017 04:37
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There'a no season 4, why do people even keep saying this? Normally people give feedback on a show because they think it might improve or effect new seasons. There isn't any more, they are not running for reelection, they don't care. Catherine Coulsen is dead and if you can't figure out why that might be a sign that this personal project is being wound up I don't know what to tell you. There's no show already: Albert, Log Lady, etc. Talk of a fourth season is just some weird way to imagine you have leverage over them as a consumer with your opinion. We are watching an echo of something that's already gone. *hungover truman in bookhouse gif with text ranting about the "Showsie!"*
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Aug 31, 2017 04:54
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...! posted:That was mentioned in this thread immediately after the latest episode. It's possible the podcast got that theory from here. Yeah, that was me. This sounds like a kind of interesting offshoot of what I was talking about. I normally avoid podcasts like the plague, but I might have to check it out. Can someone give me a link or something? Also, someone had posted a link to an article earlier comparing the pacing of TP and GoT and finding the slow, dreamy pace of Peaks to be superior. Well, here's the mirror dimension version of that same article: http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/29/entertainment/game-of-thrones-twin-peaks-finales/index.html I don't begrudge people with different opinions than mine generally, but holy poo poo... This guy is DEEPLY misinformed.
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Aug 31, 2017 04:56
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Peacoffee posted:*hungover truman in bookhouse gif with text ranting about the "Showsie!"* Okay this is the next one that needs to get made.
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Aug 31, 2017 04:56
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Peacoffee posted:There'a no season 4, why do people even keep saying this? ...Because we have actual confirmation that a season 4 is possible? That doesn't mean it's going to happen, or that it needs to happen, just that it could potentially happen. In the case of many shows, it'd happen whether it was appropriate or not, but with Lynch it probably will only happen if it's necessary (which it probably won't be).
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Aug 31, 2017 04:58
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Solice Kirsk posted:I think this season would have been absolutely fantastic if the studio had managed to negotiate a little bit of control over it. What specifically do you imagine that would have improved?
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Aug 31, 2017 05:08
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Lord Krangdar posted:What specifically do you imagine that would have improved? They shoulda named it Norma's Double R. This idea that corporate executives should be a moderating influence on artists is disgusting, and the show pretty clearly feels people like that should be ditched at the counter. Peacoffee fucked around with this message at 05:16 on Aug 31, 2017 |
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Aug 31, 2017 05:09
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The Walrus posted:not liking parts is one thing but season 2 lows? lil nicky? owns The Walrus posted:james hurleys invitation to love? not great but made retroactively worth it via James stuff in season 3 The Walrus posted:maid josie? owns
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Aug 31, 2017 05:12
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Besson posted:Everyone is talking about Dougie as if he has always been vacant, but he seemed chatty to Jade and even Mike. I know he previously had 'episodes' but it seems to imply he hasn't always been completely catatonic.
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Aug 31, 2017 05:13
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Lord Krangdar posted:What specifically do you imagine that would have improved? I'm drunk you dork. I don't know....everyone needs oversight sometimes. Maybe an editor or a Showtime producer could have limited the number of extra characters they introduced. Maybe, much like the first series, Lynch and Frost just needed someone to tell them "no" once in awhile. I think what we're really boiling down to here is that the missing of Lara Flynn Boyle's on set drama is really killing this season.
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Aug 31, 2017 05:22
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Solice Kirsk posted:I'm drunk you dork. I don't know....everyone needs oversight sometimes. Maybe an editor or a Showtime producer could have limited the number of extra characters they introduced. Maybe, much like the first series, Lynch and Frost just needed someone to tell them "no" once in awhile. I think what we're really boiling down to here is that the missing of Lara Flynn Boyle's on set drama is really killing this season. Do you by any chance, for a living...operate as a manager in some capacity? Lynch has talked about the original season, and is visibly bothered and frustrated years later that ABC hosed with the Palmer storyline. The lows of season 2 are THE RESULT of executives loving up a structure they didn't understand, and show runners then having to haul rear end to try and start new storylines within a narrative that was heavily interfered with so that its basic underlying structure was gone. Lynch lined up a golden goose (as he put it) for them and they killed it. I wonder why he had such SELFISH desires so as to be able to have full control over something attached to his reputation and name (to say nothing about Frost, who gets ignored and/or treated as less of an artistic being than Lynch, which i don't think is true). We cannot do anything for the show, just as we cannot do anything for Josie, it's very tearful. But you cant let that get you down, otherwise you'll roll over to sleep it off, and wake up with a femme fatale who cosplays as someone from "The Thomas Crown Affair" wrapping wire around your throat. Peacoffee fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Aug 31, 2017 |
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Aug 31, 2017 05:33
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Solice Kirsk posted:I'm drunk you dork. I don't know....everyone needs oversight sometimes. Maybe an editor or a Showtime producer could have limited the number of extra characters they introduced. Maybe, much like the first series, Lynch and Frost just needed someone to tell them "no" once in awhile. I think what we're really boiling down to here is that the missing of Lara Flynn Boyle's on set drama is really killing this season. The last time the network meddled in the production, Lynch left and the quality of the show was noticeably lower
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Aug 31, 2017 05:55
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psychoJ posted:The last time the network meddled in the production, Lynch left and the quality of the show was noticeably lower Yeah, even though I think it's worthwhile to watch even the crappy parts of season 2, at this point I think even the least important parts of Season 3 are so much better than those plotlines. Even the lowest points of Season 3 have either had some payoff, contributed to making later scenes more impactful, or have just been nice little slice of life bits on their own that I've enjoyed. Nothing feels like completely wasted airtime.
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Aug 31, 2017 06:02
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Peacoffee posted:Do you by any chance, for a living...operate as a manager in some capacity? Creative people are always annoyed with editing. It's why they're creators and not editors. Forcing a conclusion to Laura's story was a mistake, sure, but otoh many people have pointed out that season 3 as a whole feels meandering beyond typical Lynch work and it's likely a strong editing hand could have pushed him toward making things tighter. As my writing professor used to say, writers are terrible at "killing their darlings" and frequently need external feedback. If the story about Frost leaving to work on the book before the extra episodes were ordered is true, I have a feeling that's what lead to some of the more meandering bits. Frost has a good influence on Lynch when it comes to trying to maintain a more cohesive narrative flow intertwined with all the surreal imagery and supernatural goings on. I don't know why you think someone is being crazy by suggesting Lynch needed a bit of a leash. Film is always a collaborative endeavor and even the best directors benefit from some external control. Otherwise you end up with The Hobbit, a 9-hour mega adventure. tl;dr: just because someone thinks a show could have benefited from some external feedback and editing doesn't mean they think the director is the worst criminal scum on earth. they just think the normal filmmaking process could have helped a bit.
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Aug 31, 2017 06:39
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Yup, and the last time Lynch got to do what he wanted with Twin Peaks resulted in a huge box office failure. 10m vs a 4m income. Not everything is perfect and not everything Lynch does is sublime. The "studio hosed up Twin Peaks seaon 2" is a a good complaint, but no one ever says "The studio keeping Lynch from making a goddamned catastrophe in the first season" is mentioned.
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Aug 31, 2017 06:45
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The part where your argument falls apart, for me at least, is that Twin Peaks 2017 is better than the Original Series, in all of its meandering, unedited glory (a subjective take, but dammit it's what i think)
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Aug 31, 2017 06:48
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And that's fine and you could be correct. But, I'm not wrong in mine. Twin Peaks is different things to different people, and I think there is a real generational breakdown of it, to be honest.
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Aug 31, 2017 06:52
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cis autodrag posted:Creative people are always annoyed with editing. It's why they're creators and not editors. Forcing a conclusion to Laura's story was a mistake, sure, but otoh many people have pointed out that season 3 as a whole feels meandering beyond typical Lynch work and it's likely a strong editing hand could have pushed him toward making things tighter. As my writing professor used to say, writers are terrible at "killing their darlings" and frequently need external feedback. Maybe during the middle of the season some parts felt like filler or meandering, but now that we're nearing the end most of the show I can't think of what specifically should or could have been cut. Only Part 12 still seems a bit weaker, to me. Solice Kirsk posted:Yup, and the last time Lynch got to do what he wanted with Twin Peaks resulted in a huge box office failure. What does that have to do with us, the audience?
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Aug 31, 2017 06:53
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Solice Kirsk posted:And that's fine and you could be correct. But, I'm not wrong in mine. Twin Peaks is different things to different people, and I think there is a real generational breakdown of it, to be honest. Very true, and I think that's been my biggest frustration with some of the discussion in this thread. It's totally okay for other people to not like what you like! I don't think most of us would still be here posting our passionate opinions, theories, and nonsense if we didn't think this was a great show. It's not going to be 100% perfect for everyone. Striving for that was what made so many TV shows so bad.
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Aug 31, 2017 07:14
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Lord Krangdar posted:What does that have to do with us, the audience? It's now a smaller audience, for one.
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Aug 31, 2017 07:16
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Solice Kirsk posted:It's now a smaller audience, for one. And? I don't think having the largest possible audience is the creators' goal, nor should it be.
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Aug 31, 2017 07:16
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I agree. I really do. But how do you measure success for something like art if not by public opinion? Critical analysis by peers?...because FWWM failed at that too. I just want to reiterate that I love this show and like the new season well enough. I'm just not going to say it's flawless.
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Aug 31, 2017 07:20
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Also, just for a reply, I still know that everything could change in a matter of seconds with Lynch/Frost at the helm. The next 2 hours could tie everything together in an intricate weave that makes my heaqd spin. It could be the greatest finale of TV in the history of TV. I'm looking forward to the next two hours, just as much as everyone else in this thread. I honestly think we lucked out in here because everyone posting seems to love this show for different reasons or in different ways. It's beem an amazing time debating/talking/discussing/formulating/and joking about this show with all of you guys. Really, I think this might be one of the best threads TV/IV has ever had. Sure, there's been some really silly stuff, but that's just SA. It's been, and still is, really great talking about this series with everyone.
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Aug 31, 2017 07:44
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The secret to great threads is great television
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Aug 31, 2017 07:49
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Someone being given full creative control on television is such an uncommon occurrence that I can't really see any problem with the way this season has been handled, especially given the context of season 2. No, it's not perfect, but it's still such a breath of fresh air that's wild and imaginative and unlike anything else on TV, and I think that should be celebrated rather than nitpicked at.
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Aug 31, 2017 07:49
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Solice Kirsk posted:I agree. I really do. But how do you measure success for something like art if not by public opinion? Critical analysis by peers?...because FWWM failed at that too. I love the show as well and ultimately don't really think other people's opinions are morally wrong in some way about this. Maybe selfishly, I like what we got, because it was closer to an idea that i'd like to see expressed in this medium. While other people having complaints isn't bad, were those suggestions or thoughts somehow realized, the show would have been placed back into a category I had greatly enjoyed it not being a part of, and the number of television shows I watch this year would have dropped to 3. I am lazy I would watch more if they appealed to me. As it is, the rewind button gets use. e: I should add that I look forward to seeing every reaction to the finale and afterward will likely "step out of the theater" to reflect on a really great, long rear end movie. Peacoffee fucked around with this message at 07:59 on Aug 31, 2017 |
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Aug 31, 2017 07:50
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Accretionist posted:The secret to great threads is great television Unless it passes 3 or 4 seasons. Even if the show is still good/great the thread will suffer, it is known.
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Aug 31, 2017 07:54
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Personally I don't think I'll be able to sit through season 3 again in its entirety, it seems very much geared toward the first watch. Even moreso than the original series was to some extent. I think it benefits from that in that it's better as an experience, but not so much as a repeatable one.
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Aug 31, 2017 07:56
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The one thing I didn't like about this season is how it enlarged the setting with planes flying around and stories taking place in other states and so on. I liked how the original seasons were so local and it didn't feel right whenever they went pretty far from Twin Peaks like when James goes on his bike adventure or how the brothel was in Canada rather than just hidden somewhere in the town. I thought the idea of a demonic realm that was very local and specific to a single town and didn't seem to exist anywhere else was an original idea. Season 3 spread it out to make it about "America" rather than "Twin Peaks". Shibawanko fucked around with this message at 07:59 on Aug 31, 2017 |
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Aug 31, 2017 07:56
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Peacoffee posted:Lynch has talked about the original season, and is visibly bothered and frustrated years later that ABC hosed with the Palmer storyline. The lows of season 2 are THE RESULT of executives loving up a structure they didn't understand, and show runners then having to haul rear end to try and start new storylines within a narrative that was heavily interfered with so that its basic underlying structure was gone. they may have hosed up his plan but the first chunk of season 2 that came as a result was worth it imo 
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Aug 31, 2017 08:05
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Shibawanko posted:The one thing I didn't like about this season is how it enlarged the setting with planes flying around and stories taking place in other states and so on. I liked how the original seasons were so local and it didn't feel right whenever they went pretty far from Twin Peaks like when James goes on his bike adventure or how the brothel was in Canada rather than just hidden somewhere in the town. Aint no town in america with demons that dont be about america. I think that when the palmer mystery got spoiled they decided to go up one level in the mythology (or create another level) where the ending is a more intentional "open mystery" than what amounted to more of a cliffhanger ending in season 2. I like the goofiness of season 2, then again I don't really see parts of it as Lynch at all, so that could be it. Guest directors all with their own take.
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Aug 31, 2017 08:20
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Solice Kirsk posted:Also, just for a reply, I still know that everything could change in a matter of seconds with Lynch/Frost at the helm. The next 2 hours could tie everything together in an intricate weave that makes my heaqd spin. It could be the greatest finale of TV in the history of TV. I'm looking forward to the next two hours, just as much as everyone else in this thread. I honestly think we lucked out in here because everyone posting seems to love this show for different reasons or in different ways. It's beem an amazing time debating/talking/discussing/formulating/and joking about this show with all of you guys. Really, I think this might be one of the best threads TV/IV has ever had. Sure, there's been some really silly stuff, but that's just SA. It's been, and still is, really great talking about this series with everyone. I"m a bit drunk now too, and I agree with all of this. I'm looking forward to live-watching the finale with everyone. It's going to be a loving trip! (Edit) Looking back, I think I have posted more in this thread than anything else on these forums combined. Cheers! Section 9 fucked around with this message at 09:08 on Aug 31, 2017 |
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Aug 31, 2017 08:44
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Peacoffee posted:Aint no town in america with demons that dont be about america. I think that when the palmer mystery got spoiled they decided to go up one level in the mythology (or create another level) where the ending is a more intentional "open mystery" than what amounted to more of a cliffhanger ending in season 2. American fiction writers have this tendency to make everything about the whole country, like whatever they're writing about is tied to some kind of unique national spirit that is embodied in everything, mythologising their own history as uniquely good or uniquely evil. In the first two seasons that wasn't there yet, the Black Lodge was something that seemed to precede the United States as a country and just kind of existed in a specific forest somewhere for some reason, i preferred it that way. Episode 8 of this season made it seem like Bob exists because of some great American original sin in the a-bomb, which felt like too much of a cliche. That said it's fun to watch Twin Peaks as a foreigner because of how exotic it feels. New York or Las Vegas are common settings on TV and I kind of know what they're like, but the American northwest pretty much exists in my imagination as Twin Peaks. I've never been to a diner and I don't know what cherry pie even tastes like (apple pie but with cherries?) but I want to try it some day. The opening shots of the great northern and that waterfall set to the theme song really set a certain local mood and I felt going to Las Vegas kind of hosed that up a bit. The characters from that part of the story are fun, I just don't care for the change in location. Imagine watching a show that takes place in China. Would you rather have it take place in Hong Kong like so many movies, or in the rear end end of Xinjiang or Inner Mongolia or something for a change?
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Aug 31, 2017 09:03
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I also love this thread  it's caused me no end of frustration of times for sure - and I'm sure I've done the same to other posters - but this is very likely the first time in my years here that I've actually kept up with a show's thread through an entire season, without having days or weeks where I totally ignore it. You go on reddit or welcometotwinpeaks.com or whatever and the discussion is kind of crap, and despite the derails and whatnot the overall quality of the discussion in this thread has been much higher. I'm gonna miss talking TP with you guys.
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