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i honestly don't understand how the delegates hosed up this bad. just from pictures danny sets off the cop alarm in my head. people gotta get their poo poo together
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Aug 31, 2017 14:21
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:Stalin probably wasn't a confused old white man who is the REAL MINORITY  Checkmate.
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Aug 31, 2017 14:21
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Serf posted:i honestly don't understand how the delegates hosed up this bad. just from pictures danny sets off the cop alarm in my head. people gotta get their poo poo together
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Aug 31, 2017 14:22
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Also how true is the DSA NPC having a history of representatives being labor workers being involved with law enforcement (which can include the current police structure) Because if it's true then there's already precedent for Danny's history for being acceptable.
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Aug 31, 2017 14:24
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i keep meaning to google all the other npc members (which i can't name more than two of off the top of my head) because it sure would be crazy if the rest of them were cops too and we all just forgot to check
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Aug 31, 2017 14:24
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ThndrShk2k posted:Also how true is the DSA NPC having a history of representatives being labor workers being involved with law enforcement (which can include the current police structure) precedent doesn't make a thing more acceptable
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Aug 31, 2017 14:25
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jarofpiss posted:i keep meaning to google all the other npc members (which i can't name more than two of off the top of my head) because it sure would be crazy if the rest of them were cops too and we all just forgot to check lol i had this thought the other day but never followed through on it
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Aug 31, 2017 14:25
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ThndrShk2k posted:Also how true is the DSA NPC having a history of representatives being labor workers being involved with law enforcement (which can include the current police structure) Tbh I don't think claiming precedent is valid in an org that has so dramatically changed in the past year
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Aug 31, 2017 14:26
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Folks, I hate to break it to you, but the moment Danny-boy released his first unhinged call-to-war screed, this stopped being about whether or not he lied on his job application and became about whether a maniac like him belongs in a leadership position, and his every action since then has screamed "no." Working for a right of recall isn't just some petty thing based on not liking one guy, whatever narrative it's convenient to push, the dude's clearly toxic and there's no current mechanism for the membership to give someone like that the boot.
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Aug 31, 2017 14:28
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jarofpiss posted:i keep meaning to google all the other npc members (which i can't name more than two of off the top of my head) because it sure would be crazy if the rest of them were cops too and we all just forgot to check I can't believe the RL in RL Stephens stood for Radical Lawman
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Aug 31, 2017 14:28
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Business Gorillas posted:I can't believe the RL in RL Stephens stood for Radical Lawman Doh! Corncobbed again by COINTELPRO
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Aug 31, 2017 14:29
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GunnerJ posted:Folks, I hate to break it to you, but the moment Danny-boy released his first unhinged call-to-war screed, this stopped being about whether or not he lied on his job application and became about whether a maniac like him belongs in a leadership position, and his every action since then has screamed "no." Working for a right of recall isn't just some petty thing based on not liking one guy, whatever narrative it's convenient to push, the dude's clearly toxic and there's no current mechanism for the membership to give someone like that the boot. There's no current mechanism besides trying him again for malfeasance but this time don't pretend all the lovely stuff he's done never happened
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Aug 31, 2017 14:30
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Serf posted:precedent doesn't make a thing more acceptable Like if the DSA had a history of labor leaders who also had some ties to law enforcement (he specifies law enforcement, not police), especially if they've reformed the enforcement procedures while doing so, then electing once again another person who has worked with law enforcement is not a sudden change from how the DSA has operated before.
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Aug 31, 2017 14:34
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GunnerJ posted:Folks, I hate to break it to you, but the moment Danny-boy released his first unhinged call-to-war screed, this stopped being about whether or not he lied on his job application and became about whether a maniac like him belongs in a leadership position, and his every action since then has screamed "no." Working for a right of recall isn't just some petty thing based on not liking one guy, whatever narrative it's convenient to push, the dude's clearly toxic and there's no current mechanism for the membership to give someone like that the boot. There's only room for one Chairman Bob in this country
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Aug 31, 2017 14:34
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GunnerJ posted:Folks, I hate to break it to you, but the moment Danny-boy released his first unhinged call-to-war screed, this stopped being about whether or not he lied on his job application and became about whether a maniac like him belongs in a leadership position, and his every action since then has screamed "no." Working for a right of recall isn't just some petty thing based on not liking one guy, whatever narrative it's convenient to push, the dude's clearly toxic and there's no current mechanism for the membership to give someone like that the boot. i pretty much agree but i think the way this gets solved is we work on creating that mechanism moving forward and quit poking the hornet nest right now for the sake of the org. i think he's pretty effectively neutered in terms of what material damage he could do on the npc and keeping everyone riled up with making statements is a pretty major distraction that is gonna suck the energy out of chapters. like there is really no reason any local chapters outside of austin need to be devoting energy to this thing instead of local work and organizing. it's just painful and draining and isn't actually going to get him to resign so why bother.
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Aug 31, 2017 14:34
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GunnerJ posted:Folks, I hate to break it to you, but the moment Danny-boy released his first unhinged call-to-war screed, this stopped being about whether or not he lied on his job application and became about whether a maniac like him belongs in a leadership position, and his every action since then has screamed "no." Working for a right of recall isn't just some petty thing based on not liking one guy, whatever narrative it's convenient to push, the dude's clearly toxic and there's no current mechanism for the membership to give someone like that the boot. He's the right kind of mad, if a little very-offline. Unfortunate about the situation though
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Aug 31, 2017 14:35
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Business Gorillas posted:There's no current mechanism besides trying him again for malfeasance but this time don't pretend all the lovely stuff he's done never happened Who's pretending it never happened? I'm saying it's not nearly as relevant anymore, which it's not. I was pretty conflicted about how clear it is that he was misrepresenting himself and felt bad because he seemed like a good dude overall, but he's burned all of that goodwill away. And if relying on the NPC to boot him for malfeasance isn't a reliable way of getting rid of people so manifestly and obviously unsuited for leadership (it's not), then a new mechanism needs to be created.
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Aug 31, 2017 14:35
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ThndrShk2k posted:Counterpoint: A firebrand like Danny is good for socialism. I think we need to bring back discussion of encouraging him to resign so he can focus on running for Governor of Texas, because that sounds like the perfect job for him.
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Aug 31, 2017 14:36
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jarofpiss posted:i pretty much agree but i think the way this gets solved is we work on creating that mechanism moving forward and quit poking the hornet nest right now for the sake of the org. i think he's pretty effectively neutered in terms of what material damage he could do on the npc and keeping everyone riled up with making statements is a pretty major distraction that is gonna suck the energy out of chapters. like there is really no reason any local chapters outside of austin need to be devoting energy to this thing instead of local work and organizing. it's just painful and draining and isn't actually going to get him to resign so why bother. I mean, I agree, but "keeping everyone riled up with making statements" is clearly not something his opponents are solely responsible for.
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Aug 31, 2017 14:37
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 getfiscal go on chapo
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Aug 31, 2017 14:39
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GunnerJ posted:Who's pretending it never happened? I'm saying it's not nearly as relevant anymore, which it's not. The decision to keep Danny on the NPC kept the scope of possible malfeasance limited to the convention All of this stupid poo poo that Danny's been doing wasn't considered in the vote to remove him (which is the main reason why I'm tipping my fedora at The Process)
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Aug 31, 2017 14:40
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ThndrShk2k posted:Never said it did. Precedents do however affect what processes and methods regarding it would. i still haven't seen anyone make a logically consistent argument about where we draw the line of affiliation to the carceral state, esp regarding organized labor work.
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Aug 31, 2017 14:40
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GunnerJ posted:I think we need to bring back discussion of encouraging him to resign so he can focus on running for Governor of Texas, because that sounds like the perfect job for him. Once he's elected you can make a rule stating you can't be governor and be on the NPC, or that his time will be taken up and it'd be just for someone else to fill the slot. That kind of replacement would go over so easily that the NPC could probably organize and run his campaign in a sign of comradery.
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Aug 31, 2017 14:40
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hopefully the special convention can do two thing: 1. get rid of chairman danny 2. tell us what the role of the NPC is and national in general
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Aug 31, 2017 14:44
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GunnerJ posted:I mean, I agree, but "keeping everyone riled up with making statements" is clearly not something his opponents are solely responsible for. no im just saying that danny is clearly uncontrollable so when chapters are worried about the damage this is doing to the org they should just focus on what they can control, like the amount of energy being put into being mad about danny. im not saying this is everyone's but danny's fault or anything, just that infighting like this sucks enthusiasm that could be used to do actual work so maybe don't participate in it.
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Aug 31, 2017 14:46
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ThndrShk2k posted:Why would he need to resign from the NPC to run? He wouldn't, but saying it would be a better way of spending his time would be a useful pretext to convince him to resign.
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Aug 31, 2017 14:46
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jarofpiss posted:no im just saying that danny is clearly uncontrollable so when chapters are worried about the damage this is doing to the org they should just focus on what they can control, like the amount of energy being put into being mad about danny. im not saying this is everyone's but danny's fault or anything, just that infighting like this sucks enthusiasm that could be used to do actual work so maybe don't participate in it. OK, good points, agreed.
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Aug 31, 2017 14:47
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jarofpiss posted:i still haven't seen anyone make a logically consistent argument about where we draw the line of affiliation to the carceral state, esp regarding organized labor work. quote:Dogmatists within our ranks would get in the way when law enforcement unions stand up for justice and provide resources in that fight for justice. Texas DSA has at least a dozen members who organize or work with law enforcement. DSA in Texas has a past NPC member who while serving on the NPC organized police and correctional officers. There is no secretive group within DSA who stands with police when there are abuses. Myself and others oppose the organization of the present criminal justice system, oppose the way corrections and law enforcement is organized in America and think the whole system has to be changed from top to bottom. quote:We should look to the examples of law enforcement organizations in Sweden and the law enforcement union in South Africa. While we stand for racial justice, we are for collective bargaining for law enforcement and due process for law enforcement. Law enforcement officers guilty of violating people’s rights should be punished. Law enforcement officers who are innocent should not be punished just because they are a law enforcement officer. Extremists within our organization would deny anyone in law enforcement due process the same way the NPC members have denied Danny Fetonte due process. No charges, no investigation, and no hearing. quote:However, we should be careful not to equate the institution of the police with individual officers. While the institution represents one of the “bodies of armed men and women”, referred to by Lenin, that defend the ruling class and which must be overthrown by the revolutionary movement, the officers themselves should not automatically be tarred with the same counter-revolutionary brush. Behind the uniforms police officers are individuals and, like all individuals, their consciousness is shaped by their own experience of personal, local and world events. The problem with working with LE Unions is most people don't like the police and will factionalise over their hate and discriminate based off from uniform due to their experiences with the current system rather than work towards reform on all levels. This is not to say that their distrust and hatred of the current system is unwarranted, but rather blinding towards potential options of reform.
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Aug 31, 2017 14:50
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ThndrShk2k posted:Counterpoint: A firebrand like Danny is good for socialism. counter-counterpoint: he's an abusive old white man who uses his position and connections to disenfranchise anyone he thinks could stand up to him, rejects democratic processes when they try to decentralize his power, and is more than willing to destroy an organization than give up a position with what amounts to a negligible amount of power.
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Aug 31, 2017 14:51
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Syndlig posted:counter-counterpoint: he's an abusive old white man who uses his position and connections to disenfranchise anyone he thinks could stand up to him, rejects democratic processes when they try to decentralize his power, and is more than willing to destroy an organization than give up a position with what amounts to a negligible amount of power. in other words, a progressive that gets things done
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Aug 31, 2017 14:53
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Regardless of how you feel about Danny's police politics, the way he runs Austin's chapter is awful and the more I read about how other chapters work the madder I get about it.
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Aug 31, 2017 14:53
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Syndlig posted:counter-counterpoint: he's an abusive old white man who uses his position and connections to disenfranchise anyone he thinks could stand up to him, rejects democratic processes when they try to decentralize his power, and is more than willing to destroy an organization than give up a position with what amounts to a negligible amount of power. counter-counter-counterpoint: he is exposing how terrible and inept the npc is, which will hasten its dissolution and bring about full internal communism now
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Aug 31, 2017 14:54
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danny is hillary theyr'e the same person people
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Aug 31, 2017 14:54
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seems like a tough argument to make that we can work within the democratic party but can't reform within cop unions
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Aug 31, 2017 14:55
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long-rear end nips Diane posted:Regardless of how you feel about Danny's police politics, the way he runs Austin's chapter is awful and the more I read about how other chapters work the madder I get about it. yeah I've been pretty amazed at what I've heard about how austin works lol
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Aug 31, 2017 14:56
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Oh danny boy
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Aug 31, 2017 14:59
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danny read the snake poem
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Aug 31, 2017 15:01
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fetonte crazy, dsa fuckt
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Aug 31, 2017 15:03
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loving lmao at how in less than a year the dsa got co-opted by a nutty authoritarian i doubt it recovers from this
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Aug 31, 2017 15:04
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Syndlig posted:counter-counterpoint: he's an abusive old white man who uses his position and connections to disenfranchise anyone he thinks could stand up to him, rejects democratic processes when they try to decentralize his power, and is more than willing to destroy an organization than give up a position with what amounts to a negligible amount of power.
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Aug 31, 2017 15:05
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