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Yeah, it isn't really not putting Kevin up that was bad, it was how he played everything leading up to it. Winning POV, burning Matt and Raven, alienating his people by consistently being poo poo at covering his rear end.
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Aug 31, 2017 20:49
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Max posted:Really he should have found a way to throw that comp so he wouldn't be on the hook for how the veto got used. Couldn't he have just "found" his own card?
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Aug 31, 2017 20:49
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That or just put it in a really obvious space.
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Aug 31, 2017 20:51
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ToastyPotato posted:It's not about Alex having Jason's best interests in her mind, it's Jason having the house expecting him to put Kevin up because he basically said that would happen, and then deciding that going against the house and his word was a good choice. Jason was already a target because of his wins and his known duo with Alex, but he just solidified himself as a massive target by handing the whole house the excuse that he can't be trusted either. Jason had a decent thing going with Alex, and with his ability to win comps, the absolute smartest thing to do is keep booting the easy targets and let the house do what they want until he has no choice but to start picking off people from the group he's with. Obviously Jason would've been better off if he didn't lead everyone to believe Kevin was definitely going up as a replacement, obviously we can nitpick exactly how he did it and it's not good to ruffle a bunch of feathers in the house. But really, he says I'll put up Kevin, then talks to Kevin and says nah, I'll select another pawn: how bad is that, exactly? The only reason for this to really upset people is if they want to dictate and micromanage everything Jason does, or if they were going to try to gently caress over Jason on his own HOH by taking out one of his best friends. Jason was the #1 target before this already, btw! Keeping someone who would never nominate him, and who would take him down with veto, is absolutely a good thing for him, so he does it, one of the only times all season someone actually made a move in their own best interest, and you were ranting about how he apparently wants to lose and doesn't want $500k because he broke from the cult-like groupthink in the house! Fast Luck fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Aug 31, 2017 |
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Aug 31, 2017 20:59
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Putting yourself out there to protect someone in the game who has not ever proven they can return the favor in anyway isn't acting in your best interest, especially when you already have deals going with people who have proven that they could by actually working with you. He had every reason to be weirded out by everyone wanting Kevin on the block especially pre-veto, but the post veto pushing from the house was because: 1. He won the veto. 2. He told pretty much everyone he was on board for putting Kevin on the block. Acting in his best interest and protecting Kevin at the same time would have been him refusing to put up Kevin from the get go. People have done it before, refusing to burn someone who has never burned them. But that isn't what Jason did. Jason played along for days that Kevin was going up and then couldn't pull the trigger because of feelings. He agreed to do the hinky vote to frame Kevin. He agreed to use Kevin as a replacement nom. He agreed to tell Maven that the plan was to pull Raven down and backdoor Kevin. He chose to win the veto. That's objectively bad gameplay. That's creating rifts where there were none. He's not taking charge of anything. All he did was make people assume he probably can't be worked with now. He also potentially soured a large portion of the jury for himself. But hey, Kevin will certainly vote for him now. 1 vote is definitely better than many votes! That's how voting works right? Also lol at cult like group think. Is that yet another jab at alleged actual arch wizard Paul? Is what Jason did a good move specifically because it was the opposite of what Paul wanted?
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Aug 31, 2017 21:44
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It's good because it's good. It guarantees he has Kevin in the house instead of Matt, which is good for him. Matt would have targeted him. The outrage and disbelief the rest of the house is expressing over an HOH making his own choice of pawn is the cult-like groupthink. It's pretty bad and Jason would not be acting in his own interest if he bent to it. Of course Jason shouldn't have too strongly promised to put up Kevin but that was his plan before talking to Kevin, and afterward he realized it was a bad move. He simply changed his mind. Obviously Paul has set the tone for this season and has been calling most of the shots and this thread is the one contrarian place on the entire internet but that has nothing to do with it.
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Aug 31, 2017 22:56
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I'd be willing to accept Paul running the game if anyone here had ever shown how he's doing it. Because every situation ever pointed to can be explained very clearly by other people's actions. There's been hefty discussion, if you could call it that, of this in the feeds thread, and I have yet to see anyone ever post a single shred of evidence that supports Paul actually being the shot caller. It got to the point where people are just blaming his mere presence in the house as the reason things are happening, completely removing any and all agency from everyone else in the game so that Paul could be the puppet master in their eyes. I mean, I don't want Paul to win at all, mostly because at this point almost everyone else in the game, aside for Kevin (at the moment), has had to play way harder to stay in the game, and he's mostly just been bandwagoning and dogpiling. It's a valid strategy, and it isn't even the most boring to watch, but there are plenty of people working harder at staying safe than he is, so I would prefer them to win. But this Paul poo poo the BB community is obsessed with is laughable at this point. I'd say I would love for Paul to go next, but it won't stop people from saying he puppet mastering the jury house and deciding the winner. Like I said in the feed thread, I am looking forward to Paul somehow running the house next season too, even though he isn't on the cast. As for Jason, again, I don't see how making himself an even bigger threat to more people is worth it to have someone on your side that has not proven they can actually play the game in any way that would be helpful. I do not see how securing one vote is worth risking multiple others. It is in his best interest to minimize the target on his back by shifting it else where, not deciding to jump on a grenade for a floater to secure a single vote. Especially when he's the one who pulled the pin on the grenade in the first place. Making a decision for one's self has nothing to do with the quality of said decision. It is totally possible to take matters in to one's own hands and completely make the wrong call. That said, there is still a tree filled with goddamned twists still in this game so to be honest, there is a much better than usual chance everything might work out for him, so we'll see.
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Aug 31, 2017 23:22
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From our perspective, knowing what we know, Jason didn't really make that big of a mistake. Jason was already the next big target in the house. Putting up Kevin against his will would have resulted in the same amount of drama. If everything went as planned, Jason was still hosed starting tonight. Jason is not a good player but I hope he can keep winning comps and saving himself just so he can last longer than the useless clowns.
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Aug 31, 2017 23:53
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Mahoning posted:From our perspective, knowing what we know, Jason didn't really make that big of a mistake. Jason was already the next big target in the house. Putting up Kevin against his will would have resulted in the same amount of drama. Even if Jason wins comps and manages to outlast most of the remaining "clowns" to get to the end, his decision to keep Kevin has already burned at least 2 potential jury votes (Matt and Raven) and has completely sketched out the rest of the house. His decision tanks his future potential jury and paints an even bigger target on himself going forward, which is why this decision was extremely dumb for what little game he had going forward.
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Sep 1, 2017 00:24
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The Robins Taley posted:Even if Jason wins comps and manages to outlast most of the remaining "clowns" to get to the end, his decision to keep Kevin has already burned at least 2 potential jury votes (Matt and Raven) and has completely sketched out the rest of the house. His decision tanks his future potential jury and paints an even bigger target on himself going forward, which is why this decision was extremely dumb for what little game he had going forward. He had virtually no shot of winning. It literally doesn't matter. He has too bad of a social game to win and too good of a comp game to be brought along to the end.
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Sep 1, 2017 00:38
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He had no shot at winning if he kept playing stupid, sure. All he ever had to do going forward was have at least one other viable target in the house besides himself (and he had 1 in Paul, and discovered a second when everyone made it clear they found Kevin shady.) He opted to throw himself in front of Kevin after spending days, if not weeks, agreeing with various people that Kevin was a potential problem. The answer to being a massive target isn't to make yourself a bigger target. I mean it could work in a situation where you decide to show your cards to protect another hard player. A power duo is extremely dangerous at this point. But a floater who doesn't win comps? Awful move. Incredibly short sighted. If Kevin was another comp beast I would have had 0 problems with Jason's move. If Kevin suddenly starts cranking out wins then that was a hell of a gamble but totally worth it. But right now Jason practically solidified 2nd place at best.
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Sep 1, 2017 01:02
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ToastyPotato posted:He had no shot at winning if he kept playing stupid, sure. What did you think he was gonna do, magically start playing smart this week? Dude is who he is. There's a reason the lovable doofuses only make it so far every year.
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Sep 1, 2017 01:24
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ToastyPotato posted:He had no shot at winning if he kept playing stupid, sure. All he ever had to do going forward was have at least one other viable target in the house besides himself (and he had 1 in Paul, and discovered a second when everyone made it clear they found Kevin shady.) He opted to throw himself in front of Kevin after spending days, if not weeks, agreeing with various people that Kevin was a potential problem. The answer to being a massive target isn't to make yourself a bigger target. I mean it could work in a situation where you decide to show your cards to protect another hard player. A power duo is extremely dangerous at this point. But a floater who doesn't win comps? Awful move. Incredibly short sighted. If Kevin was another comp beast I would have had 0 problems with Jason's move. If Kevin suddenly starts cranking out wins then that was a hell of a gamble but totally worth it. If you want to step into the alternate universe where Mark is on the right side of the numbers up to the endgame, you know what Mark looks like? Jason. Because Jason's a good people-pleaser who's never super-sure what to do in the game, so he just tells a bunch of weird lies when he gets in a bad spot. Which is pretty often, because guys like Mark and Jason, who are clearly likable and win a lot of comps, are threats in every season. When has the 6'3" ripped competition threat won Big Brother, or even looked like a serious contender? Victor's one of the first names that comes up in my head and he literally got evicted three times. The bigger question re: Jason's HoH is who goes home if Alex and Jason are on the block together and both lose POV - that's where I think Jason could have hurt himself - but things can change and as much as you don't want to hear it Paul controls those votes in that situation. And he should always want to keep Alex over Jason. Jason has always been wishy-washy and Alex has always been 100%. How can you compete with that?
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Sep 1, 2017 01:26
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Of course Paul would have massive sway of the votes in an Alex/Jason block for sure, because he is third wheeling Josh and Christmas and the three of them are going to convince Raven to vote with them. It's not like I don't think Paul has any power in the house, I just object to the idea that everything that has happened so far has happened because Paul made it happen. Which is what some people are seriously arguing. But anyway, Paul has been working with Alex for a while now and frankly, Jason just made his work easier, and probably gave a nice boost to Alex's game in general, while sinking Kevin's game further since the house will view him as working with a comp beast like Jason.
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Sep 1, 2017 01:37
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For all the talk of people rewriting things and seeing what the want, the idea that Jason had "no chance of winning" seems like the biggest rewrite I've seen. Prior to this week Jason was generally well liked, widely trusted, had a good comp resume, and didn't have any real blood on his hands besides lying to Christmas in Week 1 and that is old news. He even seemed to survive the Double Eviction Marlena noms with it seeming more like a house move than his move. He probably would have lost next to Alex or Paul but I think he could have beat anyone else. Jason was a definite jury threat going into this week. I don't think he did much damage with Alex or his allies but he definitely burned Maven and did a number on his general house/jury image as a trustworthy, "good" guy. Thats the problem with what Jason did. He was playing a "clean" game in the eyes of many going into this. A backstab this public and clear undermines that in a way that's hard to clean up.
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Sep 1, 2017 02:08
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Also, there was all that bad lying and poor defense of it after the POV Ceremony that hurt Jason. PREVIOUSLY ON BIG BROTHER... we join the show late because of football
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Sep 1, 2017 02:17
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"Nobody set me up" lmao Congrats on the tv time my man
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Sep 1, 2017 02:21
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Left out of that edit, and why Josh said he was threatened. Kevin threatened Josh and grabbed a glass and motioned to throw it at him.
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Sep 1, 2017 02:23
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Mark: Wow, this is really going to be a vicious jury. I think the word you were looking for was "bitter", Mark.
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Sep 1, 2017 02:35
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The jury is just gonna get more bitter when Matt goes in and they all look back at how smart and right and Right they were. Unbearable.
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Sep 1, 2017 02:35
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Matt's gonna be crazy bitter. Then if Jason follows him in after getting betrayed? Kevin? Alex? Raven? If someone actually pulls the trigger on Paul after him thinking he puppetmastered the entire season? This is going to be the type of Jury that can produce a Fabio or Natalie White win. Has there been a wholly bitter BB winner? Lisa, maybe?
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Sep 1, 2017 02:38
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Sadly? I mean he kissed the same rear end you guys did but it's not like you ever talked to him. ed: Ian was as much of a "bitter jury winner" as Lisa Fat Lowtax fucked around with this message at 02:44 on Sep 1, 2017 |
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Sep 1, 2017 02:41
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Fat Lowtax posted:Sadly? I mean he kissed the same rear end you guys did but it's not like you ever talked to him. Is that directed at Christmas? Christmas has had a good relationship with Maven since Week 1 when they vowed to never vote her out and did a great with jury management with them this week to the point where at one point I saw Matt and Raven talking about how much they love Christmas and are so glad they kept her in the game. Honestly, most of them besides Kevin had pretty good social games with Maven the last month or so. The two of them were basically living in everyone's HOH room each week. Fat Lowtax posted:Sadly? I mean he kissed the same rear end you guys did but it's not like you ever talked to him. Ah, good call. He did go on a comp run at the end there and had some a sincere supporter in Brittany. But yeah, there was some real bitterness in that one. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Sep 1, 2017 |
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Sep 1, 2017 02:45
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Matt, take care. Goodbye. *Shrug*
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Sep 1, 2017 02:46
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Papa John Misty posted:Matt, take care. Goodbye. *Shrug* A fine representation of both Matt's BB legacy and Kevin's social game. Kevin's not much of a BB player but he's an artist as a TV character.
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Sep 1, 2017 02:48
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Is Chenbot going through some weird 90s rave culture mid life crisis? I had to do a second take when I saw the giant fur sleeves on her neon orange, mesh shirt. Im pretty sure this is not the first time she dressed up as Dee Lite this season.
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Sep 1, 2017 02:49
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I was amused by Chenbot's disbelief that Raven could win and Matt's utterly empty "she and Paul are great players" defense. Oh, Matt. You did nothing. Enjoy what I'm sure will be a very welcoming and friendly jury. Fun Feed Fact: Earlier this week Raven told Matt she'd take Paul to the F2 if she had the chance even though she knows he'd beat him.
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Sep 1, 2017 02:52
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Super lovely edit tonight. They also cut out Jason's controversial comments in addition to Kevin grabbing the glass against Josh. Jason's bs doesn't fit the narrative BB is creating, but it still sucks when someone does or says something enough to get attention from websites only to have it completely covered up by the show in order to preserve phony character development.
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Sep 1, 2017 03:22
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To be honest I think the online controversy about Jason's stuff is a little out of context (little, it was still a hosed up thing to say) but that's no really any different from them ignoring Cody's repeatedly bigoted comments or Jess' weird finger poking/sexual harrassment/assault thing. Jason's comments will probably pass the same way those things did. Afterall now the BB fanbase loves Cody and Jess and thinks they should be America's Favorite and never did a thing wrong. BB always ignores that stuff if it doesn't directly slip into the narrative and game. Its messed up but its SOP. Aaryn was the rare exception because of how much there was and how much attention it was getting. They also didn't show another fight Kevin had with Matt/Alex/Raven that we'll now never see because they turned the feeds off for it.
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Sep 1, 2017 03:33
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It appears that Julie Chen was holding carpet samples during tonight's show.
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Sep 1, 2017 08:57
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Strategically, I think Jason made the right move. The two power couples are up against each other, and it makes more sense to take away a vote from their side rather than vote out someone who he has an actual bond with. However, Jason executed it in the worst way possible. He shouldn't have pretended they were pawns and he shouldn't have told Raven she was safe. He also should have thrown the POV comp to let someone else make that choice. He already had a large target on his back, but now he may have hurt his chances at getting a few jury votes. Mind you, I don't understand why Matt continued to allow himself to be a pawn without seeing the obvious drawbacks. I guess there wasn't much for him to do, but like, c'mon. Without checking Wikipedia to avoid spoilers, I think he was a pawn 3 weeks straight. You would think at some point he would think, "man, no one else is being a pawn. I wonder why??"
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Sep 2, 2017 21:07
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Matt explicitly said on the show that his strategy was to be the pawn early on so that someone else would have to be the pawn later. Matt isn't great at Big Brother...
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Sep 2, 2017 22:29
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This might be the best episode in BB history
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Sep 4, 2017 01:19
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Well, that there was an HOH competition. Holy gently caress, is everyone in that house a moron. 
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Sep 4, 2017 01:26
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Robnoxious posted:Holy gently caress, is everyone in that house a moron?
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Sep 4, 2017 02:00
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They should put that hour of television in a capsule and send it into space or something, it was perfect
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Sep 4, 2017 02:03
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Xmas is so going to get rid of Paul soon.
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Sep 4, 2017 03:12
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I mean, Kevin and Alex a definitely morons in this situation. I gave Alex the benefit of the doubt to see if maybe she was hedging her bets, but she really seems oblivious. Raven didn't really have a good reason to not trust Christmas and Paul so far since they have both been buttering her up for a while now. Alex and Kevin are baffling though. Josh and Xmas are the big winners here. Paul is thinking his hands are clean, but he is the one running around reassuring everyone they are fine, so if things blow up, he will be the common denominator. If Paul is smart, he will need to find away to keep Raven from getting too close to Christmas without seeming too obvious, which is going to be hard since the seeds for mistrust are already planted with Josh and Christmas. This is the first real week where he is actually juggling, so I guess we will see just how good he really is now. I really hope Josh wins next HOH, as that is the only HOH that would really test Paul's game, imo. ToastyPotato fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Sep 4, 2017 |
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Sep 4, 2017 03:23
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Christmas: Alex, you're a pawn. Jason, you're a major game threat and I have to take out a strong competitor. Alex & Jason: Why'd you put up two pawns? It will be interesting to see if Christmas can manage the fallout of this. She sort of laid it out bare there and gave Jason every hint that he was the target short of flat out saying it. And its basically the exact same move Jason made last week so its hard to get mad without being a hypocrite. But these aren't rational actors and Alex and Jason are going to feel really, really stupid for this week. And they should. Josh has no reason not to trust Christmas and throw the HOH. Raven is reasonable since she's not a threat and has no real reason to think Christmas is gunning for her (but she's a moron for forming a losing F2 with Paul and thinking she's playing some master game). Kevin is really iffy after everything that happened last week but he's in a desperate enough situation that I could probably play devil's advocate and say he's at that point where winning HOH one week is less valuable than just rolling the dice and hoping you can trust someone. But Alex? Throwing the comp when you should know you and Jason are a huge target and all the chaos of last week, volunteering to go up as a pawn, and then not even being clued in by a fairly overt nomination speech? Alex is just dumb. And the realization of that is going to do hell on her ego and temper. That was definitely an episode for the books. The big rub here is that Josh and Christmas haven't really done anything that I'd call stupid (strategically, they've had a ton of dumb fights). They're going to have to manage the fallout of Jason's eviction but they seem like they've at least set up their path of defense and "look, its F7 and you're massive threats who are backstabbing people too" is pretty valid on its own. Them letting Paul cover his own rear end and hide behind them is problematic but they're not oblivious to it and I'm not sure what they could do to stop it. The best move would probably be to make sure Paul wins HOH next week and has to betray someone, but I'm not sure how you do that or guarantee that he doesn't just throw one of you up and says "I'm not voting." But Raven, Kevin, and Alex are just morons.
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Sep 4, 2017 05:32
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| # ? May 24, 2024 15:32 |
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Meanwhile up north, the network that airs Big Brother and produces BBCanada is having some fun with their twitter account. https://twitter.com/Global_TV/status/903271191531610112
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Sep 4, 2017 11:44
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