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learnincurve posted:So your livestock guarding dog will bark at a mountain lion? What happens next? Either the lion will get spooked and flee or attack your dog. In 3.5 acres where the gently caress is it going to go? Did anyone hear the dog and will they be able to come to it's rescue or are they at work or worse, sat in bed going "dog's are barking" and ignoring them? My guess is the mountain lion might run away for its life. I think a dog that can kill two wolves on it's own could easily give a mountain lion a run for it's money. https://youtu.be/eatQSKaUIQQ Chido fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Sep 1, 2017 |
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Sep 1, 2017 03:35
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I was scared when I saw this thread had 86 replies. Ive always been a little afraid of PI but for fucks sake. InstantJellyfish knows her poo poo. Go back to GB
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Sep 1, 2017 03:53
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We had our neighbors complain about a pump that was across the road from them in our creek, irrigating our fields. They were pissed off because it was keeping them up at night. poo poo happens, crops gotta grow, sheep gotta not get eaten. Edit: Re the dogs being in danger from predators- most predators are going after easy prey. If they get met at the fence by a snarling angry pyr they are PROBABLY going to go "gently caress it" and find a farm where the LGDs are put inside at night. They aren't stupid and a brief zap isn't going to keep them away from a delicious defenseless lamb. I'm in western ny where all we have are coyotes and anyone who keeps sheep has their dogs out 24/7. They are not pets, they are valuable members of the farm and they have a job. They usually prefer to be out with their flock/herd and their coats are perfect for this. By the time you hear the barking and tuck your dick into your pants your animal is already dead and the profits that went with it. Tasty_Crayon fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Sep 1, 2017 |
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Sep 1, 2017 04:19
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I've been farming and raising LGDs on and off since 2006. Even in my agriculturally zoned-but-relatively-suburban current setup; my neighbors understand that I have livestock and they make noise. It's a weird mix; suburban houses with a few farms on the street, but we all get along. Then someone bought the house next to us as started saying that feral hogs in the area were pigs that belonged to me, and I was not containing my pigs. You live in Georgia, feral hogs are ubiquitous. I know how many pigs I have. When that was cleared up, they started complaining about my LGDs barking and my roosters crowing. The local PD knows what's up and is chill about it, but these people literally moved next to a farm and are extremely outraged that there are animals on the farm. It isn't like they couldn't see them when they were buying their house.
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Sep 1, 2017 04:53
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Supercondescending posted:I've been farming and raising LGDs on and off since 2006. Even in my agriculturally zoned-but-relatively-suburban current setup; my neighbors understand that I have livestock and they make noise. It's a weird mix; suburban houses with a few farms on the street, but we all get along. "Oh honey, we would live next to a FARM! It's so picturesque! We can go over and buy milk and eggs from them and play with the animals!" *shows up unannounced, get barked at by a big fluffy dog they don't understand they can't pet. Watch a goat suck it's own dick while a pig screams wildly at the other pig trying to rape it. Go home traumatized, and at one am be woken up by the shrieks of what they assume are the LGDs but are actually a bunch of coyotes fighting over the corpse pf someone's indoor/outdoor cat* Tasty_Crayon fucked around with this message at 05:15 on Sep 1, 2017 |
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Sep 1, 2017 05:12
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I recall my neighbor in Chicago (in the city, not the burbs) had chickens and a rooster. I'm all for raising and growing your own food but holy gently caress was that rooster annoying as all hell. Literally everyday, within 30 minutes of sunrise all summer long. Even being a heavy sleeper with my window shut it would wake me up like no alarm ever could. I'm not sure what they did with them in the winter but I never heard them then .. maybe they kept them in the garage. When I was moving out my landlord was showing the place and the viewing couple heard the chickens and asked if they make much noise. "Only really around 5am".
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Sep 1, 2017 06:08
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I've been farming on huge farms since 1979, but in two countries that use livestock guarding dogs as alert dogs not attack dogs. Until yesterday I had assumed America would, like us, use guns to dispatch predators and be far more reliant on humans for guarding. I would call them livestock protection dogs if asked to describe your dogs by a non American. This Is fairly clear in my posting. With all due respect if you are deliberatly misreading my posts or don't understand that people in different countries use different farming methods, and that confusion can arise from a word meaning a different thing in different countries then you can go do one.
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Sep 1, 2017 09:23
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learnincurve posted:With all due respect if you are deliberatly misreading my posts or don't understand that people in different countries use different farming methods, and that confusion can arise from a word meaning a different thing in different countries then you can go do one. no one is "misunderstanding" you, they're laughing at you because you keep going on about poo poo that's irrelevant to farms in the U.S., hth
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Sep 1, 2017 11:53
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This is a international forum though, people are going to do things in different ways and think that their own way is the best. Using dogs like you all do is a really odd concept for some non-Americans to get their heads around. Literally no reason to use a dog trained to attack when the government compensates for livestock lost to predators. Saying that I don't agree with some of the UK or Australian laws with hunting and guarding dogs as they are simply too strict. Reminds me of that west wing quote "it's not that you don't like guns, it's that you don't like the people who like guns" you could replace guns with hunting and it would work as well. I'm not sure that 6 dog set up would even be legal in the U.K. because of the hunting laws. Then there is that whole mess when it comes to manslaughter or GBH if the dog attacks a human. Our laws are basically geared towards one person with a gun going out and simply finding and shooting predators, which actually kills far more of them than any other method.
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Sep 1, 2017 12:12
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jeez guys its almost like different countries and regions do things differently sometimes holy goddamn poo poo.
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Sep 1, 2017 12:29
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learnincurve posted:This is a international forum though, people are going to do things in different ways and think that their own way is the best. You know that most of these breeds were developed in places like the Caucasus mountains, the Alps, Tibet and other areas with large land predators and terrain that doesnt facilitate having a constant watch over livestock by a human? Or did you think Tibetan Mastiff or Pyrenees was a misnomer? There are literally videos on YouTube right now from the swiss government about not loving with big dogs guarding sheep while hiking. How's that for international? And you know that a guardian traditionally means to, well, guard poo poo right? Like defend it from something? Or are human guards supposed to bark until someone else comes to take care of the problem? People dont have an issue with you explaining how farming practices differ, they have a problem with you refusing to apologize for not understanding that, ironically, farming practices differ here and thibking that there's no way that someone could need multiple guardian dogs when there is a massive amount of mountain lions in the area!
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Sep 1, 2017 12:34
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the point of having LGDs is it's non-lethal to keystone predators that we want to avoid killing more of. no one is using a "trained attack dog", they're using LGDs the way they have been bred to be used for centuries: to drive off large predators. while this is an international forum, not everything is relevant to every discussion. you keep comparing taking potshots at foxes to people who have multiple visits from mountain lions a night. they have a section of pasture they call "the kill zone".
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Sep 1, 2017 12:46
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learnincurve posted:This is a international forum though, people are going to do things in different ways and think that their own way is the best. Our government does not compensate small losses of under $10k if I remember correctly. There's a fainting goat farm up the road from me that's 75 acres. They have 37 dogs now (they were looking for 3 more last I knew) because they lost $38,000.00 in stock in 2016 to wildlife (they were only running 12 dogs at the time and kept losing stock so they majorly upgraded). They never got a penny for their lost animals. They and the people who lost a donkey and six cows are the reason I run two LGDs on my little plot. Po's already chased off: a bear, several cats of questionable size right after a pair of kids was born, god only knows how many coyotes at this point, several feral dogs, owls, hawks, and a partridge in a pear tree. Without my dogs I would have 0 animals. You guys don't have the predators we do, or the same jampacked number of them. When I worked at the bazillion+ acre farm near my house as a kid for horseback riding lessons they had so many dogs I couldn't keep track of all of them because of the cattle and their other small livestock. You -always- found paw prints of crazy poo poo everywhere and even though you're 11 you -still- went out into the brushy parts of the pasture (or even anywhere near them) with a pistol because the dogs might not get there fast enough if the stock wasn't near the brush. drat good dogs though. If nothing was around they'd come play tug-a-stick and wiggle. I think they lost 1 lamb once because the dog got stuck in the fence (dog was fine, dog looked everywhere for that lamb though. good dog). Verman posted:I recall my neighbor in Chicago (in the city, not the burbs) had chickens and a rooster. I'm all for raising and growing your own food but holy gently caress was that rooster annoying as all hell. do loving earplugs not exist anymore/does nobody adjust to noises in their world anymore? We have three roosters on the property and I snore right through them, as does everybody around us. And Hellion, the head roo, is loud as poo poo. You can hear him halfway down the road. Literally nobody notices and hasn't for well over a year. And the people that did at first just bought some earplugs. Then we gave them a fuckload of eggs and they were like omg eggs  and everybody's chill now.
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Sep 1, 2017 13:24
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There are different methods of guarding  Our farm dogs would bark to alert us to intruders or predators and we go out with a gun. (non-agricultural) guard dogs in the UK must be licenced and have a handler with them at all times or be locked in a secure pen/inside. You shoot somone or your dog bites somone on UK farmland then under the law you are potentially proper hosed. Not dog destroyed hosed, prison for life hosed. Serious question, are you not allowed to go out and hunt mountain lions? Again maybe a cultural difference but when it comes to foxes our farmers are vengeance made flesh. Combine them with all those rich people who have had their fox hunting taken away they would all have a drat good go at making the lions extinct. Edit: this is why people hate the British isn't it, the mass slaughter of people and wild animals as a first response. learnincurve fucked around with this message at 13:34 on Sep 1, 2017 |
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Sep 1, 2017 13:28
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No generally coyotes and feral hogs are the only thing you can hunt year round. Even the megapest deer have a season.
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Sep 1, 2017 14:03
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The coyotes in my area are getting pretty ballsy. Two of them crossed my back yard a few weeks back in broad daylight. Myself and both of my dogs were out there at the time, in our fenced in area thankfully. My dogs were going apeshit and these coyotes didn't give two fucks that we were out there, less than 20 feet away. They stopped to stare my dogs down a little, glanced at me, then casually strolled off into the woods. The female looked like she was around 40 lbs, but the male was a big boy, maybe had some wolf in him? He was bigger than my larger dog, who is just under 60 lbs, and had some stripey markings and a mane. I'm glad we sprung for the taller fence! According to my neighbor, they've also given the stare-down to his two Rottweilers.
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Sep 1, 2017 14:20
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Learningcurve, since you obviously know better about protecting livestock than our local plebian goon farmers, could you come here and work in one of these farms please? I'm sure you will be able to handle frequent/daily bear, wolf, coyote, abd mountain lion visits as well as the fox visits in your country
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Sep 1, 2017 15:18
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Hunting mountain lions depends on the state you're in but largely it's not okay. We weren't even allowed to wreck the bear that Po tried to eat.
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Sep 1, 2017 15:20
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I live in the suburbs, and the coyotes here are awful. There is a bunch of them that live in a wooded area down the street from me, and you can hear them yipping at night. People in my neighborhood have lost smaller dogs, cats, and chickens. This is in one of the larger cities in America. You can go almost anywhere in the city and see them at night. When I was a kid, I lived on a farm of 12 acres. We lost countless pigs, sheep and chickens. My stepdad eventually gave up and got cows, because even with dogs, he was losing all of his livestock (they were not good livestock dogs). We can't just go hunting wolves, bears and mountain lions, because they are protected. They tried that once with wolves, and almost wiped them out. If we get rid of larger predators, the deer, rabbits, and other pest animals will wipe out your food crops instead.
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Sep 1, 2017 15:55
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learnincurve posted:There are different methods of guarding You keep saying that but then you go on being all judgey about the way people here use their farm dogs. In the most of the world, if you have an LGD you have a dog that is expected to protect livestock with minimal human intervention. You keep going "well it's different here and in Australia" but proceed to snoot at the concept of leaving the dogs to do their own thing. What you are describing is literally not a thing for like 90% of the world.
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Sep 1, 2017 16:32
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We need more dog pics.   This is my little Dog2. I've had her for almost a month now. I've been trying to decide what kind of mix to tell people she is when I'm asked. The shelter listed her as a whippet mix but now I'm thinking rat terrier mix might be a better description. Brindle isn't an acceptable color for rat terriers but they can carry the bobtail trait. We met another rat terrier mix (owner did a Wisdom Panel) at the dog park and they both had the same body shape. I can see why the shelter called her a whippet mix too though. She's pretty cat-like around the house. If she had been listed as a rat terrier mix, I might not have wanted to meet her. Only because my neighbor growing up had a terrible rat terrier. I hated that little dude. She's a sweetie. She hasn't quite mastered the dog park yet. She'll spend most of the time running between seeing what her big sister is up to and coming back to see what I'm doing. She's making me get more exercise at the dog park. Her sister will go haul rear end around with other dogs for hours and sometimes I'll just sit, watch them play and chat with other owners. Now if I stay in one place, the little one will just stand next to me and stare at me so I've taken to doing laps with her while her sister dorks around. They're so much fun. I'm thinking about taking them on a hike this weekend.
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Sep 1, 2017 16:34
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GoodBee posted:We need more dog pics. She is clearly a Flippley Eared Sweethund. I love her.
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Sep 1, 2017 16:42
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GoodBee posted:We need more dog pics. Awesome looking doggo. I watch tons of puppy and dog training footage on YT from the channels linked earlier in the thread. My puppy is doing great. There are a bunch of "recommended" videos on YT out there telling me - "Do not take your dog to the dog park! It's too dangerous for your dog! Anything could happen!" What's the consensus here on using dog parks? My dog is very social, gets a long great with other dogs, children, and adult males. I've been socializing her, without problems, since I adopted. Pretty much a sweetheart. Should I be worried about taking a peaceful, well-adjusted, social dog to the dog park to hang out? The theory behind all the "Dont do it!!" videos is mostly - any dog there could brutalize, maim, or even kill your dog." I guess I get that, and it's been enough to scare me away from taking her so far. I thought I would get a goon consensus first since I'm new to dog-owning. 
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Sep 1, 2017 17:59
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dog parks are fuckin dumb E: if everybody is a lab/golden it's usually fine and they just stupidly hurf at each other's dicks and buttholes.
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Sep 1, 2017 18:12
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Dennis McClaren posted:Awesome looking doggo. After a couple of bad experiences, here's my own rules for the dog park: -ideally only with dogs that I know -4 dogs max. (playing/engaging). Ideally no more than 3. -Never 'let them sort it out'. - Watch the dynamic when new dog enters. If a new dog joins, I usually recall my dog and watches how it interacts with the other dogs. My bad experiences were all from a 3rd/4th dog joining in and deciding to be a dick. - If there's a pushy/rough dog, I'll leave. (This also goes for when my dog decides to be a jerk). - If there's a dog I don't like the look off, I'll leave - If there's an owner I don't like the look off, I'll leave. I still consider dog parks to be a potential risk and you need to be on your guard at all times. By default, I don't trust other people (and their dogs) until proven otherwise.
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Sep 1, 2017 18:32
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Chido posted:Learningcurve, since you obviously know better about protecting livestock than our local plebian goon farmers, could you come here and work in one of these farms please? I'm sure you will be able to handle frequent/daily bear, wolf, coyote, abd mountain lion visits as well as the fox visits in your country We could do an exchange, you come out to the Australian farm and look after 3000 goats on land measured in miles, with snakes, spiders, a disease carrying giant rat problem, and years that will randomly decide if everything you own is destroyed by fire or flood. Farming is hard. We have four different kinds of farm (goat, pig, sheep, and flower/bull) in two countries and each one is it's own challenge, 2001 in the U.K. all our pigs were destroyed by the government because of a countrywide foot and mouth mass cull. Compensation nowhere near covered building the breeding stock back up or lost income. We do things differently, which is something I did not know before yesterday, I thought America would be the ones using guns but it turns out we use men with guns where as you would use dogs. You would stop any attacks before they happen, we would track and hunt down predators after the animal had been killed which is something our laws allow. The fact that your laws won't let you do this is why I wouldn't want to farm in America.
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Sep 1, 2017 19:07
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learnincurve posted:We could do an exchange, you come out to the Australian farm and look after 3000 goats on land measured in miles, with snakes, spiders, a disease carrying giant rat problem, and years that will randomly decide if everything you own is destroyed by fire or flood. we don't want you to
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Sep 1, 2017 19:17
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We only use guns in America to kill each other.
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Sep 1, 2017 19:21
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learnincurve posted:We could do an exchange, you come out to the Australian farm and look after 3000 goats on land measured in miles, with snakes, spiders, a disease carrying giant rat problem, and years that will randomly decide if everything you own is destroyed by fire or flood. http://www.mountainlion.org/portalprotectguardanimals.asp Hmmm, even the government suggests getting lgd becuse it helps reduce the loss of livestock, and predators are more weary of these dogs and sty way more often than if it were a man with a gun Spiders don't go attack sheep, nor snakes do. You know what is more effective with the predators you have, but that doesn't translate to a different country with different predators . Or are you gonna tell me you get rabid rats the size of black bears killing herds of sheep every night? Do you have 7-foot-long, 100-pound spiders hunting and killing your animals every day?You can't compare a funnel spider with a mountain lion, that only makes you look dumb and so uninformed. Now if you told me you had gangs of cassowaries running around massacring herds of hundreds of sheep, now that'd be more interesting! Also AHAHAHAHA I live in California, and this state is always burning, so please tell me more about how I know nothing about wildfires burning poo poo up  Also found in California" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latrodectus Black widow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latrodectus_geometricus brown widow, shitton of them in my house btw http://www.inaturalist.org/projects/scorpions-of-california loving scorpions (found one dead in a storage box in my closet), AND https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_bark_scorpion burn this one! Basically https://hubpages.com/animals/Top-10-Most-Dangerous-Animals-in-California I still want to know how funnel spiders compare to motherfucking coyotes and mountain lions. Chido fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Sep 2, 2017 |
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Sep 1, 2017 19:24
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ImplicitAssembler posted:I still consider dog parks to be a potential risk and you need to be on your guard at all times. By default, I don't trust other people (and their dogs) until proven otherwise. This is probably the best advice to go off of. Be cautious around other people and dogs. Most of the time I haven't had to worry too much at all and have had a blast watching my dog just hang out and have fun. Usually my dog likes to see what's going on and then go do her own thing somewhere else. It's also a great place to train your dog with lots of distractions around.
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Sep 1, 2017 19:47
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GoodBee posted:We need more dog pics. I'm going to be dumb and say frenchie/whippet. The ridiculous ears and bob tail butt is an excellent combo. Dennis McClaren posted:Awesome looking doggo. Ugh I'm going to steal your pup, she's so great. I personally wouldn't risk a dog park with a puppy. Too many people out there with "he's just really friendly!" dogs and I've heard too many stories of dogs ending up dead or traumatized. If I had a puppy I would stick with puppy play groups run by people who understand dog body language and will step in if necessary. If I had an adult dog who just loved interacting with strange dogs (most adult dogs don't) and was super dog savvy/good at communicating I'd consider a dog park that was more than just a tiny fenced in thunderdome but in 99% of cases they aren't good or necessary.
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Sep 1, 2017 19:50
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learnincurve posted:We could do an exchange, you come out to the Australian farm and look after 3000 goats on land measured in miles, with snakes, spiders, a disease carrying giant rat problem, and years that will randomly decide if everything you own is destroyed by fire or flood. If you now understand that we have to do things differently then stop telling us we aren't doing it right. 
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Sep 1, 2017 19:50
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My dog park is also an enormous field with a nice little lake. I'm sure those little fenced up dog parks are more of a small bubbling cauldron of potential aggression. Also bringing a puppy is less than ideal, I've been around a lot of older dogs that just hate young puppy dogs.
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Sep 1, 2017 19:53
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Some dog parks have a separate section for small dogs/puppies that are generally less crowded and calmer than the big dog section. I bring my dogs to a dog park once a week or so, but my dogs do what a previous poster's do: say hello and then do their own thing. Also, the people and dogs that I've met there have so far been savvy and friendly for the most part. The very few times there've been trouble makers their owners have stepped in and removed them immediately.
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Sep 1, 2017 20:39
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The dog park was part of my plan when adopting while living in an apartment. We've got a couple of various sizes nearby, one is huge and has a lake. My bigger dog likes swimming or just splashing around like a dork. I try to bring her a couple of times a week so she can play. I like watching her play with other dogs. Now she's got a little sister at home so they can puppy around together instead of trying to convince the cat to play and getting swatted in the face. I like seeing how she plays with different dogs. Any dog that will chase her is immediately her BFF. What's the consensus on doggy day care or boarding at places that also have a day care? I boarded Dog1 at my vet once and she looked so mad when I picked her up. They stay in little little kennels and have alone time in the yard. I brought her to a doggy day care once for a free interview day once when it was raining out. They had a camera so I could watch her. She seemed kind of bored and confused but not unhappy or uncomfortable so maybe she might like that better if I need to board her again.
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Sep 1, 2017 21:09
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Having worked at a dog daycare you couldn't pay me enough to take my dog to one, even if he was ok with other dogs. Most are managed poorly and have undertrained teens watching entirely too many dogs with nowhere for dogs to go if they need a break. I saw some awful, dangerous poo poo and my boss didn't care. Apparently there are some good ones out there but they are definitely in the minority. Personally, I'd rather my dog be bored and safe.
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Sep 1, 2017 21:14
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Being surrounded by that many new, unfamiliar dogs and people at once can be stressful for a dog, especially with different dogs coming every day. This can be excaerbated by the design and size of the space, how many dogs there are, how good and well-trained the staff is at dealing with the dogs, whether there are ways for the dog to get away from the solitude if they want a break, and so on. There's often not enough staff to supervise all the dogs properly, and many doggy daycares are just plain overcrowded. I'd be wary of sending a dog to a daycare too often; my experiences with them have been mixed at best.
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Sep 1, 2017 21:29
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Did yours have cameras? I don't know if it makes a difference. I think my dogs are perfectly fine sleeping the whole time I'm gone to work or wherever, so I'm not personally interested in the day care part but other people reading might be. I just needed to board my dog on fairly short notice so I brought her to my vet, just like we did with our cats when I was a kid. As an adult with cats, I just left them home alone while I was gone. Another boarding question: most facilities offer boarding two dogs together in a kennel for cheaper than boarding them separately. When is this recommended? What sort of behavior should I look for to determine if they need to be separate or if they would be happier together? I've only had my Dog2 for a month so I would definitely board them separately if I needed to board them now.
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Sep 1, 2017 21:35
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 Speaking of LGD, here is our retired rescue "Maremma" (hint: not actually a full Maremma). She is off active duty now and spends most of her time hiding out under the truck or in the empty bedroom. She was pretty neurotic when the farm got her several years ago, keeping her with the chickens didn't help too much and she is still a huge weirdo. She takes pets without trembling finally but she goes around with this dumb nervous grin constantly on her face. I think she's gotten comfortable enough with human interaction that I'm going to attempt clipping her dew claw nails next week. She was quasi-feral at first, cowering when petted and avoiding eye contact. None of the other dogs will go near her. When the farm first got her she had the habit of eating chicken legs off live chickens, giving her raw meat fixed that problem but oddly enough she wouldn't eat the fat from the meat, she just dug a nest and stashed it all in it and slept on top of a pile of rancid pork fat and wouldn't let the other dog near it. It probably would've been best not to separate her from her flock, but it was beyond our control. I'm wondering if anyone has any experience moving a LGD that's lived with a household for some time back into the field? We'll be getting our chickens back soon and I'm hoping she can start spending at least days with them. Also, any guess what kind of mix she is? We were told she is a Maremma but she looks nothing like our pure Maremma, although I'm guessing she might be half Maremma since she is double dewclawed. Sprue fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Sep 1, 2017 |
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Sep 1, 2017 21:43
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My dog loving loves day care, but he really likes other dogs.
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Sep 1, 2017 23:16
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