|
Darth Walrus posted:I reckon that the guard captain with the blackened face is the real power behind the throne, and Charioce is just in too deep and is way too hooked on the promise Singeface has offered him to back out despite the fact that the people he's thrown his lot in with are clearly awful. Unless I'm mistaken, most of his serious dick moves have been when Singeface was nearby, haven't they? It would certainly explain the vast disconnect between Charioce and Chris, if he's only operating as a tyrant because someone else has him by the balls. That's an interesting theory, but it seems odd that Charioce would bother giving him orders to keep up appearances even when they were alone together.
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2017 01:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 01:46 |
|
|
that guy might have given charioce the idea and manipulated him to reaching this point (idk that I buy that tho), but even if he did I don't think he's the secret power behind anything. he'll probably go after nina now instead of doing something to charioce
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2017 01:17
|
|
|
There Bias Two posted:That's an interesting theory, but it seems odd that Charioce would bother giving him orders to keep up appearances even when they were alone together. I don't think it's just keeping up appearances - he is the king, and Singeface is a senior officer, just one with major leverage. That whole thing about the red dragon also felt like a test - if he'd said anything other than to kill Nina on sight, he would have landed himself in some seriously deep trouble. In fact, I wonder if him 'showing Nina his plans' will involve betraying Singeface and teaming up with the (very surprised) heroes - that would explain that menacing smirk when he leaves the cave, as he psyches himself up to deliver some long-delayed justice. Of course, he could just be betraying Nina, with that necklace serving as a tracking device, but seducing the heroine with an apparently heartfelt love confession and then arranging her death with a smirk on your face seems like 'total irredeemable evil' territory, and way too much of the show has been signalling that we're supposed to be rooting for Nina to redeem him. They'd have to get themselves a whole new ED, for a start.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2017 01:25
|
|
|
Charioce is the son of a concubine right? Do we know anything about how he rose to power? Surely there must have been other people in line for the throne? What if the Onyx Knights were the one who recovered the power they keep using to kill the gods, and offered to support Charioce as king against his rivals in exchange for being the ones actually in charge?
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2017 02:35
|
|
|
NotALizardman posted:Charioce is the son of a concubine right? Do we know anything about how he rose to power? I think everyone else died via bahamut?
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2017 03:50
|
|
|
I think it's just that the black knights are fine with him being in charge as long as his philosophy aligns with theirs, and very willing to overthrow him if it doesn't.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2017 04:11
|
|
|
There Bias Two posted:I suspect he might be trying to break into the afterlife somehow and recover his mother. I don't know, my impression is that all of this is so that he can slay Bahamut. Invading the gods' and demons territories for relics to assemble that new weapon, enslaving demons for more resources (and to keep humanity's enemy at bay), and the recent comments about the seal all suggest that to me. It's clear that what he's doing is for the sake of his race and not himself; he's already made clear that he's willing to die for it (like when commenting on the risk of using the weapon again). Sindai posted:I think it's just that the black knights are fine with him being in charge as long as his philosophy aligns with theirs, and very willing to overthrow him if it doesn't. Also, I think this is what's going on too.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2017 10:25
|
|
|
I caught up the last few weeks' episodes and I gotta say this show is pretty good.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2017 18:05
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:I don't think it's just keeping up appearances - he is the king, and Singeface is a senior officer, just one with major leverage. That whole thing about the red dragon also felt like a test - if he'd said anything other than to kill Nina on sight, he would have landed himself in some seriously deep trouble. Am I not supposed to consider a sustained campaign of oppression and planned genocide as "total irredeemable evil"? I don't understand this entire thing, fundamentally, of casting a tragic, brooding pretty boy out of Fantasy Hitler. "I only regret slaughtering innocents by the millions because of you!" is romantic now I guess.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 05:44
|
|
|
Caphi posted:Am I not supposed to consider a sustained campaign of oppression and planned genocide as "total irredeemable evil"? I think it's more that if this wasn't his idea in he first place, and if the reward he's been promised is sweet enough, he may have been tempted in until the sunk-cost fallacy made it impossible for him to pull out. Nina is offering him an escape route that lets him not do things he secretly regrets.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 10:11
|
|
|
Charioce is super evil and he's just trickin'. That's my take and I loathe his character if that's not the case.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 10:53
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:I think it's more that if this wasn't his idea in he first place, and if the reward he's been promised is sweet enough, he may have been tempted in until the sunk-cost fallacy made it impossible for him to pull out. Nina is offering him an escape route that lets him not do things he secretly regrets. It doesn't work that way. Genocide and mass enslavement isn't something you can dip your toe into and slowly wade in.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 12:27
|
|
|
There Bias Two posted:It doesn't work that way. Genocide and mass enslavement isn't something you can dip your toe into and slowly wade in. The general vibe seems to be that he was trying to save the world, but the guys who offered him the ability to save the world seem to have turned out to be a bunch of total psychopaths, and he's having to keep them happy and sate their hideous appetites for cruelty in order to get his hands on their sweet, sweet world-saving tech, and he's justifying it to himself because (a) they'd murder him if he didn't, and (b) when you're trying to keep the whole planet alive, the upper limit on acceptable casualties is very high. Now Nina and the gang are presenting him with a less monstrous alternative, and he's readjusting poorly, because how can he even begin to justify genocide to himself if it wasn't for a good cause?
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 12:58
|
|
|
i believe that every member of Nina's Lovely Harem will prove to be true and kind in the end
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 13:41
|
|
|
I finished the first season of this. Still not sure where the card game part entered into it, but it was way better than I expected. This new one still holding up?
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 16:09
|
|
|
Rangpur posted:I finished the first season of this. Still not sure where the card game part entered into it, but it was way better than I expected. It's just as good if not better. The card game has nothing to do with the show really. They just took the setting and ran off in a better direction with it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 16:22
|
|
|
Nina posted:Charioce is super evil and he's just trickin'. That's my take and I loathe his character if that's not the case. he's probably legit with nina tbh and, while I doubt they're gonna say everything he's done is good or the right choice, there's almost definitely gonna be something that justifies that robot hand thing he built. the handroid will fail tho and nina will turn into good bahamut and blow it up instead he'll probably have some kind of out for the genocide/slavery thing so he can avoid total responsibility and have his redemption arc
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 21:09
|
|
|
i figure that the reason for all of this was to get revenge on bahamut. they are gonna break the seal and try to kill it with the hand cannon. as for charioce's excuse, someone probably lied and told him the seal was gonna break soon anyway.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 21:47
|
|
|
punching the dragon seems like a good bet for what the power glove is for. it'd let what's her name from the first season come back too
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 21:52
|
|
|
Considering how this season handled the 'redemption arc' of some pretty evil things in the first season any Charioce arc is either going to be good with some pretty rough spots (Azazel) or  (Jeanne)
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 22:12
|
|
|
Oh, sorry, he was tricked into torturing an entire race of children for a long period of time, self-admittedly without remorse. That makes it all better. Poor baby. What will Azazel think about all this, anyway? "Look, buddy, I know he slaughtered all your friends and enslaved your entire race, but he likes me and he's a great kisser!"
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2017 02:53
|
|
|
azazel is seriously not any better really whether anyone deserves to be redeemed is kinda beside the point. I think that's what'll happen either way with charioce
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2017 03:04
|
|
|
I'm not saying it won't be hypocritical of Azazel but it'd be even worse if he was like "fine I can see he truly loves you so I guess I'll let him off the hook (for child slavery)."
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2017 03:08
|
|
|
he's all geared up for a tragic end. it's not too late to get upset about it if charioce actually gets redeemed somehow.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2017 03:20
|
|
|
Maybe he's just really into dragons.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2017 13:21
|
|
|
I'm not sure if it's ever going to fully redeem him. The best treatment he'll probably get is dying as a consequence of what he's been doing. Virgin Soul hasn't exactly shied away from punishing Azazel for being a terrible person, despite the good cause. We've had lots of scenes about the duality of Charioce and I doubt the show is going to forget that just because we had some development in his relationship with Nina. I mean, he did order her death shortly before spending a romantic evening flying on her back. There's no way that's not coming back.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2017 02:59
|
|
|
The flow of that scene made it seem like he wanted to be rid of her without seeing her because of the torment she was causing in his soul, and now that's changed, so it's all part of the "I was a monster and you're fixing me" narrative.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2017 03:55
|
|
|
Frankly, the show's been waving the death flag so hard for Charioce that I'm thinking he's not going to die and if he is being manipulated by Singeface and co., then I think the odds of him surviving probably triple. Plus, if Charioce does die, his death would probably leave humanity in a really lovely position. There's no clear successor to the throne, whoever would want the throne and be able to beat off all the claimants to the throne would probably be just as bad/worse towards the demons as Charioce is and it's not like any of our heroes are in a place to take over for him. Kaisar, while a great person, is way too soft-hearted to rule and Jeanne doesn't seem interested, plus I doubt she has the aptitude to anyway. Her blind obedience to the gods that continually screw her over (which she slowly seems to be letting go of, but we'll see) is another huge problem. And if Charioce dies and the green magic with him, the demons will likely rise up, kill as many humans as they can get their hands on and then resume torturing/killing humans just like they'd been doing for the past few centuries. So, great, the demons aren't been tortured anymore, but now they'll just go back to torturing/killing humans and would likely become even more savage in retaliation for what humanity has done, which...great? Yay, humanity's going to go back to being at the mercy of a powerful and sadistic gang of immortals again? You really think that Azazel wouldn't immediately run off to start torturing and killing humans and having a grand old time of it again (which, gee, ask Kaisar and Favaro how that worked out for their families) if there was nothing to hold him back? On the gods' side, Gabriel, if she's still around, would probably roll right in and start killing humans as "punishment" for the king's actions, then (assuming any humans are still alive at this point) resume the status quo of "humans worship gods out of fear of demons killing them, gods occasionally throw humans a bone to keep them subservient, while actually doing mostly nothing (like the way they completely failed to give a poo poo about Jeanne when she was about to be burnt at the stake in Genesis) no one learns anything." Guess what, you've returned right to the conditions that led to humans killing/enslaving/torturing demons in the first place once they got the power to do so, leading to another cycle of violence, solving absolutely nothing. Tbh, I'm tired of the "redemption equals death" trope anyway--it's hackneyed as gently caress, and I don't want Charioce to escape so easily. I want him to live and have to deal with the consequences of what he's done. In fact, I'm wondering if part of Charioce's plan is "redemption via death", since he's repeatedly made it clear he's willing to die for whatever his goal is and he does seem troubled on some level about what he's doing. Episode 17 made it clear he has no personal animosity towards the demons (the gods, otoh, he definitely has some hatred for) and they're more or less collateral damage in whatever he's planning. If Charioce is planning to redeem himself through death, then I think it's all the better if he gets that plan yanked away from him. I think he's a fascinating character, but he really should have to face the full ramifications of the policies he's set up. As far as Nina goes, it seemed pretty clear to me in the "kill the red dragon at sight" scene that Singeface was testing Charioce and Charioce was giving the "right" answer so Singeface wouldn't come down on him, not that he really wants Nina to be killed. The way his eye twitched when Singeface said they'd certainly kill Nina should have been proof enough that he doesn't want her to die. The director also confirmed at a recent event that Charioce's feelings for Nina are genuine and that it was "love at first sight" for him. What Charioce is going to do re: Nina is still up in the air, but according to people at that event, in ep 19 they dance again and he apparently rejects her or something at the end, and Nina gets very upset. At some point, Favaro gets super pissed and punches Charioce for hurting Nina, so look forward to that.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2017 05:43
|
|
|
Shingeki no Bahamut has always been a fun show but I'll be frankly surprised if they don't redeem him via death. It is disappointingly common. I want Charioce redeemed but to me that means he turns himself in and is imprisoned. Nina can find herself a boyfriend who isn't a terribly broken individual.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 02:15
|
|
|
nina already has a bunch of boyfriends and she isn't gonna give up any of them
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 05:04
|
|
|
We're going to get a ball! (It's back, folks.)
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2017 23:17
|
|
|
I've missed this show. The characters never fail to put a smile on my face.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2017 01:01
|
|
|
Nina's constant flipping is so good
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2017 02:43
|
|
|
I really like these latest set of eps, they're more introspective and help recontextualize the characters. And lol that the ED's costumes will be Canon.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2017 17:19
|
|
|
So we're setting up a dragon v dragon fight with the post credit sequence, then...
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2017 20:26
|
|
|
I wasn't expecting them to hire a demon to handle the dragon.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 14:20
|
|
|
There Bias Two posted:I wasn't expecting them to hire a demon to handle the dragon. check the things on his cheeks
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 17:22
|
|
|
Well, that played out pretty much as expected. I will never get sick of the gags they do with Rocky.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2017 03:31
|
|
|
wow that stinger
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2017 04:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 01:46 |
|
|
I was not expecting that.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2017 16:16
|
|