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Vermain posted:I think Scarra put it best: he feels ridiculously clunky to play (mainly with how his W works), his Q and E are underwhelming, and he does next to no damage unless he's able to get his full combo off, which is hard to do. so basically he sux cos ur bad
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Sep 2, 2017 19:17
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Tired Moritz posted:why are you so surprised that people want their stuff back because if people genuinely cared about this issue they would be demanding refunds every time a champion rework came out. but nobody does that. riot set precedent years ago they will change certain aspects of the game(champions) while removing the old content, and give no refunds for this, and now that they are applying that principle to runes and poo poo... suddenly people care..?
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Sep 2, 2017 19:31
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are you sure? there's a decent amount of people that wants refunds or at least a goddamn traditional skin
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Sep 2, 2017 19:42
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The champions might be changed, but you still own the champion afterwards. Runes are going away. I think Luna made a good point. quote:Runes weren't an optional thing, they were required. It's insane to act like you didn't have to buy them. The amount of ip that champions cost and runes cost were directly competitive to ensure you had to prioritize one over the other. For years we've all been making GBS threads on how terrible runes are and that we had to put up with it. Is that it weird we want a little more in return now that it's going away AFTER we invested in that garbage? There's a great opportunity to welcome back old players back to the game, people from back when shards weren't even a thing. But you when say 20-25% that doesn't feel very encouraging to re-install and see how much fancy new funbucks you got (and what you can spent it on).
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Sep 2, 2017 19:47
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Mierenneuker posted:There's a great opportunity to welcome back old players back to the game, people from back when shards weren't even a thing. But you when say 20-25% that doesn't feel very encouraging to re-install and see how much fancy new funbucks you got (and what you can spent it on). This is actually something I didn't think about : I have 100k worth of ip in runes, I'm getting about 25k back. That is 3 champions on release, or 4 6300's. That is a drop in the hat when we're talking about ip to rp relative cost.
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Sep 2, 2017 19:55
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pog boyfriend posted:because if people genuinely cared about this issue they would be demanding refunds every time a champion rework came out. but nobody does that. riot set precedent years ago they will change certain aspects of the game(champions) while removing the old content, and give no refunds for this, and now that they are applying that principle to runes and poo poo... suddenly people care..? They gave full refunds when they removed Dodge Runes
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Sep 2, 2017 20:13
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Tired Moritz posted:are you sure? there's a decent amount of people that wants refunds or at least a goddamn traditional skin i mean there are but i have never seen ppl in the thread complain about it, which is why i am surprised that all of a sudden refunds are an issue. it is not like wanting refunds is unimaginable just that it seemed to have come out of nowhere
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Sep 2, 2017 20:16
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Luna Was Here posted:Except it's not entirely free. The phrase "time is money" isn't something that applies to corporate. Opportunity cost for the end user is just as real as(and arguably more important than) the company's. Every day I make conscious decisions that involve my company's opportunity costs being more valuable than some random users'
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Sep 2, 2017 20:16
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Methanar posted:Every day I make conscious decisions that involve my company's opportunity costs being more valuable than some random users' What's about every user, especially Long time high value users? Also many users likely bought IP boosts. I know I did.
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Sep 2, 2017 20:20
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I'm not even saying you're wrong for thinking that 25% is a low refund, but rather that if you expected anything more than absolutely dick, you were setting your expectations too high. You don't have to bend down and kiss Marc Merill's dick tip, but rather getting pissed about this when the precedent that has been set by Riot and basically every company ever with regards to sunk costs rewards is to just give you nothing or almost nothing at all is an overreaction and Riot is going to eat some of the costs themselves, which is a win for players by any metric. Riot didn't have to refund poo poo to anyone because you chose to spend it willingly. Would people be pissed if they refunded nothing? Certainly, but at the end of the day you played the game willingly and enjoyed your time doing it and it cost you no real world money to do so. Even if Riot didn't refund anything I'd bet the number of people who would quit would be miniscule, because runes just aren't THAT big of an issue for majority of players. Hell, most Bronze/silver/gold players can't even make a proper rune page after years and years of buying runes and still use just 2 rune pages anyways.
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Sep 2, 2017 21:19
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pog boyfriend posted:i mean there are but i have never seen ppl in the thread complain about it, which is why i am surprised that all of a sudden refunds are an issue. it is not like wanting refunds is unimaginable just that it seemed to have come out of nowhere well duh. 6300 ip =/= all their ip and ip spent on runes like come on, are you serious?
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Sep 2, 2017 21:26
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The argument that we shouldn't have expected anything is weak though because they issued full refund when they removed Dodge Runes.
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Sep 2, 2017 22:06
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Rygar201 posted:The argument that we shouldn't have expected anything is weak though because they issued full refund when they removed Dodge Runes. Like 6 years ago lol and they weren't replacing them with a free alternative
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Sep 2, 2017 22:10
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Removing dodge runes back before season 1, which were broken as hell, based on RNG and were bad for the health of the game as a whole has basically no comparison to removing an entire system of the game and replacing it with a better, more interesting and more optimized and free version of the same thing.
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Sep 2, 2017 22:11
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I think the thing that I don't like, for me specifically, is that the long-term players who chose to buy weird niche runes, aka engage with Riot's system, instead of sitting on their IP are getting way, way less refunded than if they had just acknowledged that those were runes they wouldn't use much/weren't optimal and just sat on their IP. Like, that isn't ~that~ many players, but it feels kind of bad to end up not being able to get the things that were meant to be rewards or w/e for the very long-term players, i.e., Urfwick, because you spent your IP on runes in a good faith 'maybe there actually is value in more of these than the purely optimal ones, let's see' kind of way rather than just ignoring the lovely parts of their system. As it is, unless I want to buy a million chromas, I'm at a point where I can't buy the things that I don't have, but already have the things that I can buy (i.e., all the champs, rune pages, whatever). That doesn't mean that the refund system as a whole is bad, or unfair, or whatever, it just means that the distribution they chose sucks more for some people than others, and there are always going to be alternative systems that would have changed how good/bad the distribution is for specific people, even if it isn't 'overall' more fair or what have you. That's not like, the end of the world, but it's definitely a legitimate criticism (however significant) that's kind of necessarily part of the system. Like, I'm going to keep playing, and I'm fine just never having to buy another champ with real money, but I'd imagine there are people in the same situation who aren't. Also, 'Riot didn't even have to refund anything, they're a corporation focused on the bottom line' is a pretty silly argument. It sees pretty obvious that the opportunity cost of not refunding people some amount (at least converting IP to blue essence) was greater the opportunity cost of having some amount of refund. They clearly think enough people would leave the game/not want to engage with the in-game currencies/whatever if they felt they were unfairly compensated. It's specifically in their financial interests to have a solution that seems fair enough to a large enough number of players, so criticisms re: the fairness of the systems by individual players are definitely relevant. Saying 'it's a business decision, you're lucky they gave you anything!' seems kind of obtuse. e: Although saying 'I'd be fine without getting a refund I bought these things and used them" is obv. totally legitimate, or 'at least some of what you're feeling is just loss aversion!'. Extending it to what makes sense for Riot doesn't seem like it quite works though~ foutre fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Sep 2, 2017 |
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Sep 2, 2017 22:15
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RIP ZEEZ
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Tired Moritz posted:well duh. 6300 ip =/= all their ip and ip spent on runes what i am saying is that riot has been replacing gameplay features with similar but different ones for years since the dodge rune refund and every one of these changes has not supplied a refund nor have people complained about it so it is weird that this is where people draw the line
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Sep 2, 2017 22:20
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considering that no one expected the ip system to literally destroyed, I think it makes sense that people would be pissed
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Sep 2, 2017 22:23
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for real though youll cowards need to stop getting mad at people for not being as mad about this
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Sep 2, 2017 22:23
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Gimme urfwick, riot NOW
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Sep 2, 2017 22:26
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pog boyfriend posted:for real though youll cowards need to stop getting mad at people for not being as mad about this Also true~ Some people are going to be mad, some aren't, but that doesn't mean everyone oughta be one way or the other. Luna Was Here posted:He doesn't really do much outside of cc. Like his cc is pretty dang good, but once he's used his cooldowns he's basically a Sunfire cape on legs. Maybe he could be a support but I don't think he has the initiation range or the ability to disengage to pull it off effectively. I'm sure faker will play him mid and make me eat my words though Agreed. I feel like he feels pretty decent to use as a kit, in part because the sound effects own, aside from his Q. It just sucks that that kit doesn't really do damage...
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Sep 2, 2017 22:27
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If Lowtax made avatars free to change I wouldn't expect him to refund a dime to anyone. Thanks for reading this bad post
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Sep 2, 2017 22:28
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bad comparison because you dont need avatars to be good at posting
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Sep 2, 2017 22:35
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kingcobweb posted:If Lowtax made avatars free to change I wouldn't expect him to refund a dime to anyone. Thanks for reading this bad post Avatars are explicitly a for profit option for SA. Runes were a requires gameplay item.
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Sep 2, 2017 22:41
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I dunno about you guys but I'm gonna have a lot of blue crystals so I don't give a flying poo poo. I wonder how much chromas will cost because there's a few I'd be fine with picking up And dodge runes were loving terrible there is NO way to positively sell that garbage
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Sep 2, 2017 22:42
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Tired Moritz posted:bad comparison because you dont need avatars to be good at posting uhm... well, alright then
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Sep 2, 2017 22:49
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The idea that "we should have expected nothing" in the modern era of companies catering to their playerbase is really really dumb and I don't know how it's possible to come to that idea. If your only way of coming to that conclusion is "well, mobile games do it" then I'm gonna blow your mind and say that 90% of the major mobile games out there are just skinner boxes with different coats of paint and shouldn't be compared to actual games with actual gameplay.
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Sep 2, 2017 22:59
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Luna Was Here posted:The idea that "we should have expected nothing" in the modern era of companies catering to their playerbase is really really dumb and I don't know how it's possible to come to that idea. If your only way of coming to that conclusion is "well, mobile games do it" then I'm gonna blow your mind and say that 90% of the major mobile games out there are just skinner boxes with different coats of paint and shouldn't be compared to actual games with actual gameplay. lol if you think league isn't a skinner box *presses the queue button again hoping to one day see a master tier animation*
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Sep 2, 2017 22:59
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 Why didn't anybody tell me that I should be cooking with wine. This is great. Coq au vin owns (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 2, 2017 23:01
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I'm mad this for-profit entertainment company isn't giving me my money-time back enough!!!
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Sep 2, 2017 23:20
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as a og urfwick owner i have to say tiime to feed riot is a cuck cs em all 1337 i am bronze man 420697773141 dead teemos
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Sep 2, 2017 23:29
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This for-profit entertainment company is taking away items i spent time-money on and not compensating me for the time-money I'm losing as a result, so apparently I'm an idiot and don't understand how businesses work!
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Sep 2, 2017 23:38
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Luna Was Here posted:This for-profit entertainment company is taking away items i spent time-money on and not compensating me for the time-money I'm losing as a result, so apparently I'm an idiot and don't understand how businesses work!  I'm sorry you've invested in a depreciating asset
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Sep 2, 2017 23:44
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Methanar posted:
For someone who hates league as much as you do, you're oddly invested in flacking for Riot
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Sep 2, 2017 23:48
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Rygar201 posted:For someone who hates league as much as you do, you're oddly invested in flacking for Riot I empathize with the quirky tech start up Riot Games.
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Sep 2, 2017 23:49
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Methanar posted:I empathize with the quirky tech start up Riot Games. I like Riot more than most companies, but it think the small refund misses the mark.
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Sep 2, 2017 23:50
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Methanar posted:
comparing car value depreciation to a pisspoor refund for a fake currency is some galaxy brain level stuff
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Sep 2, 2017 23:59
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Luna Was Here posted:comparing car value depreciation to a pisspoor refund for a fake currency is some galaxy brain level stuff Fake currencies depreciate about at the same rate as bananas
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Sep 3, 2017 00:05
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by the way, according to riot's EULA, you don't own your account or games, you just lease it from Riot. I mean, it doesn't matter anyways because you're getting a completely new rune system for free, but just in case you thought you owned your runes and skins and stuff, you actually don't in the end, the time and money you spent on these runes eventually led Riot games to develop this obviously better and more interesting and intuitive system that's coming in preseason, so you're really not losing anything, just your time-money is being diverted into that project. don't fret my friend Teikanmi fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Sep 3, 2017 |
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Sep 3, 2017 00:06
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lots of corporate dicksuckery going on here
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Sep 3, 2017 00:35
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Tired Moritz posted:lots of corporate dicksuckery going on here Actually we should behead the owners of riot, something I believe as a Communist.
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Sep 3, 2017 00:44
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