|
Season redeemed.
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 01:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 19:52 |
|
|
I just wanna say that it's really super neato that in Episode 17 we get a bunch of scenes recapped from S1 that we never otherwise would have seen in GREAT BIG GORGEOUS 4K HD. I mean just that shot of Pete fishing? That looks as pretty on a modern TV as if it were shot yesterday. (And even if it was, as I'm sure someone will tell me it was, surely some of the prior scenes of him leaving the cabin and walking past the big log on the beach were recycled footage from the old show.) But in 1991 it would have looked like moldy rear end on the bestest TV money could buy.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 01:00
|
|
|
Mover posted:What year is it? Know then that it is the year 10,191
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 01:03
|
|
|
Data Graham posted:I just wanna say that it's really super neato that in Episode 17 we get a bunch of scenes recapped from S1 that we never otherwise would have seen in GREAT BIG GORGEOUS 4K HD. I guess the footage from the pilot was cropped to fit 16x9? It's 4x3 on the Blu-Rays because that's how it was shot, I'm pretty sure. All the FWWM scenes were shot on film so those didn't have to be cropped.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 01:04
|
|
|
Pedro De Heredia posted:This is pretty interesting analysis, but I feel like this point is too damaging. Bob kills and rapes a ton of people after Laura. It's hard to say she defeated him in any meaningful way. That's the thing, it depends on how we look at the story of Twin Peaks. I look at it like I think Lynch does: this is the story of Laura Palmer. The Return expanded the mythos of the lodges, we saw Mr. C do some badass stuff, Ray goofed off and it was an incredible journey. I want to be clear, I loved the Return. It was an experience like no other. Saying that, all the stuff has distracted us from the story of Laura. When editing FWWM, Lynch dropped scenes that took the story away from Laura. Alot of these scenes were great, but the film had to be Laura's story. In the Return, we get all that extraneous information. We love these characters and care about them, but they're only part of the journey back to the story of Laura. Then suddenly in 17/18 focus pulls into Laura's story. So what does this have to do with the defeat of Bob? All the mythos is extraneous to Laura. This isn't a story about Mr. C invading the White Lodge, as many (including myself) thought. Nor is it about the mother. It is a very personal story, the story of the little girl who lived down the lane. Bob may survive, but Laura's death is her victory. She doesn't know the mythos like we do, but from her perspective this is a victory. Maybe defeating Bob is not the right way to phrase it, but it is certainly a personal win over Bob.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 01:06
|
|
|
Data Graham posted:I just wanna say that it's really super neato that in Episode 17 we get a bunch of scenes recapped from S1 that we never otherwise would have seen in GREAT BIG GORGEOUS 4K HD. If you're talking about this, I'm pretty sure it's a modern shot using a body double:  The other ones are just cropped footage from the recent Twin Peaks remaster, which does indeed look phenomenal.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 01:08
|
|
|
Art Alexakis posted:That's the thing, it depends on how we look at the story of Twin Peaks. I look at it like I think Lynch does: this is the story of Laura Palmer. I just think it's not going to be very easy to reconcile the original series, the movie, and the new series. I mean, they're pretty different. The imagery and "cosmology" (for lack of a better term) in the new series is pretty different than in the old series. quote:All the mythos is extraneous to Laura. This isn't a story about Mr. C invading the White Lodge, as many (including myself) thought. Nor is it about the mother. It is a very personal story, the story of the little girl who lived down the lane. The Return is an eighteen episode series where almost none of them are about Laura so if the story was supposed to be about Laura, someone either massively hosed up in the editing bay, or did the longest attempt at distraction ever.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 01:14
|
|
|
RIP Jack Nance. It was nice to see Pete if even for a few seconds
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 01:16
|
|
|
Data Graham posted:surely some of the prior scenes of him leaving the cabin and walking past the big log on the beach were recycled footage from the old show. Surely? You're about to learn some bad news about Mr. Eraserhead.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 01:16
|
|
|
Art Alexakis posted:That's the thing, it depends on how we look at the story of Twin Peaks. I look at it like I think Lynch does: this is the story of Laura Palmer. This makes a lot of sense in that Laura's central role in the plot/symbols of the show isn't meant to be interpretated as the Universe as Narrator declaring: behold your golden queen Twin Peaks! More that everyone has a bright golden glow inside them. The small golden seeds I think are a hint toward the nature of everyone's soul. I think the dreamer scenes and the image of Laura imposed over the opening before "Twin Peaks" comes onto the screen is a big clue. Moreso with 17's cooper-face-overlay.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 01:17
|
|
|
I think it comes back to episode 8 (Which I will probably now always think of as Episode Infinite). I think the analysis about Jeffries/Cooper attempting to heal the timeline is correct, and the issue at hand is partially that they are all unable to see the BIG PICTURE which has to do with the trinity tests. I actually think the huge blow-up of the nuclear explosion in Cole's office is a *bit* of a reference to it - it's a picture SO big that Cole's almost always way too close to it to truly understand. I also think the sad truth is that Laura was created by The Fireman in response to Jowday/Judy's creation of BOB specifically to quench his fire. I don't quite know what it means, but Laura is absolutely the sacrificial child being offered up to the flames. Cooper thinks that he must "find Laura" and I don't think Cooper is really doing anything but what he knows how to do by trying to "save" her. Saving women in trouble is what Cooper does. He's The Knight of Lancelot Court. It's all right there on the screen. I'm still very confused. Lots of good theories, though. Lot's to think about. I do want to add that I'm starting to think MIKE/The Arm are not nearly as benevolent as they appear to be. I was extremely unnerved by Mike leading Cooper through the same passageways that Evil Coop was led through by a Woodsman on his way to see Jeffries. I am uncomfortable with how and why the door underneath The Great Northern/The Ringing somehow leads to that place. I am still wondering about "the curtain call", which to me evoked images of the fabulous credits sequence of Inland Empire.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 01:22
|
|
|
kaworu posted:I think it comes back to episode 8 (Which I will probably now always think of as Episode Infinite). I think the analysis about Jeffries/Cooper attempting to heal the timeline is correct, and the issue at hand is partially that they are all unable to see the BIG PICTURE which has to do with the trinity tests. Laura is the water, she is the well 
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 01:25
|
|
|
"It's 1:30AM. I'm crying so hard I can hardly breathe. Now I know it isn't Bob. I know who it is." That's Laura's missing diary page from episode 7. So I guess that was her figuring out it was actually Leland in FWWM when he crawls on top of her in the bed?
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 01:26
|
|
|
Art Alexakis summed up perfectly my issues with the finale. The ending of FWWM is lovely and makes me weep; the thought that Cooper denied Laura her angel and her peace hurts my heart. I can live with the finale if I tell myself that Carrie Page is just one of many possible Lauras from different worlds/time lines.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 01:26
|
|
|
Pedro De Heredia posted:
That's why I called them a distraction. Then their are those few moments that she all of a sudden becomes important. The scene in the red room, the scene where Cole opens the door, the Log Lady saying "Laura is the one", Bobby seeing the picture of Laura, the golden orb, Leland saying "find laura" , and all the scenes with Sarah. I've seen plenty of discussion about how exactly Laura would fit into the plot. So while Laura wasn't necessarily present, she loomed over the entire show. She's also sort of a negative space in the show. We see those moments with Laura and then nothing. Her lack of presence is itself a tool to cause the audience to wonder what the hell's going. She's present, but not. Just like how she is dead and alive.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 01:27
|
|
|
Rageaholic Monkey posted:Oh yeah, thinking that a woman with no prior acting credits who had identical hair and wardrobe as a musician who had previously appeared on the show was the same person. What an impossible mistake to make! This is the worst thing in this thread. They look nothing alike. Please stop mentioning this or at some point it'll become a "twin peaks known fact" that sage bros repeat to each other offline. "oh hey I got a little easter egg for you: did you know that the owner of the house was the lead singer of the Chromatics? she's a fifty year old woman!"
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 01:28
|
|
|
Art Alexakis posted:That's the thing, it depends on how we look at the story of Twin Peaks. I look at it like I think Lynch does: this is the story of Laura Palmer. I wouldn't call it personal victory but an ethical victory, a self-sacrifice wilfully done because she understood her only alternative was to succumb to complete corruption. Laura and her sacrifice, showed that any way to victory over that primordial human evil require the assumption that IT is structural thing, that it doesn't go away just because you beat it with your magic glove. Cooper fails to grasp this, again. He wants a good ending for everyone, the Joneses', Diana, Twin Peaks, Laura, etc, Two birds with one stone, his fatal sin is greediness, wanting to shortcut through the pain.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 01:29
|
|
|
Well, guys, I'm gonna go soothe my brain with watching Star Trek reruns on Netflix; like a droning narrative tonic, the television equivalent of cherry pie and ice cream/comfort food for a sci fi dork.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 01:37
|
|
|
Hey so what was up with the Crime Lady who gets killed by Ike and Mr C calling Argentina? Was that Mr C making the bead that eventually turned into Diane's tulpa? But the timeline doesn't match up with that????
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 01:39
|
|
|
"Ah man, I'm not dead anymore! You've ruined my victory against the evil force that raped and murdered me! I wish I was still raped and dead! That would show him!" - A thing that would never be said by anyone at all ever
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 01:40
|
|
|
NObodyNOWHERE posted:"Ah man, I'm not dead anymore! You've ruined my victory against the evil force that raped and murdered me! I wish I was still raped and dead! That would show him!" - A thing that would never be said by anyone at all ever What the gently caress are you talking about dude?
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 01:43
|
|
|
NObodyNOWHERE posted:"Ah man, I'm not dead anymore! You've ruined my victory against the evil force that raped and murdered me! I wish I was still raped and dead! That would show him!" - A thing that would never be said by anyone at all ever That's ... not what he's saying? Also it's up in the air imho whether Coop really did save her, or he's just locked in some bizarro time fuckery like Jeffries. I didn't take that ending as 'Cooper went back in time and stopped Laura's death' at all. It all came across as Lodge fuckery to me.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 01:45
|
|
|
What are everyone's thoughts on Janey-E RE: her tulpa status? Tulpa Diane (Diane Evans) said Janey-E was her sister (Jane Evans), but how would that work? Not that it matters anymore because that timeline's been made irrelevant. I'm just wondering how Diane's tulpa had a sister who then married a tulpa (Dougie). Was Janey-E the only original person out of the 3 of them or was she a tulpa or what? I remember earlier in the season, we were all speculating that Janey-E was somebody's doppelganger, but that's before it was revealed that Janey-E was Diane's sister.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 01:48
|
|
|
Diane's tulpa had real Diane's memories. Janey-E is Diane's sister. That's all imo
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 01:49
|
|
|
esperterra posted:Diane's tulpa had real Diane's memories. Janey-E is Diane's sister. That's all imo I guess that would add up because tulpa Diane said they were estranged, so Janey-E wouldn't have noticed if a tulpa had replaced her sister.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 01:51
|
|
|
Rageaholic Monkey posted:What are everyone's thoughts on Janey-E RE: her tulpa status? Tulpa Diane (Diane Evans) said Janey-E was her sister (Jane Evans), but how would that work? I think people are reading too much into the tulpa/dopplegangers. Coop recovered through the love and humanity of those like Janey-E, Sonny Jim, Bushnell, and the Mitchums. I don't think any of them were tulpas
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 01:52
|
|
|
Art Alexakis posted:What the gently caress are you talking about dude? I don't know why you would assume that was directly in response to you. I was making a joke because the sentiment was expressed by a couple of people that Laura was robbed of her victory over the forces of evil when Cooper altered her death to save her. I thought that was funny because I find it a stretch to think Laura would take that attitude and, as the victim, her perspective on her resurrection seems to be more relevant than that of all of us rando dudes in a forum thread. Anyway, I'm just kidding around. I've made my perspective clear on this already, which is that the question is moot for me because I don't think Cooper did it in order to rescue her. I think he needed to do so for some undisclosed reason in order to find Judy.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 01:57
|
|
|
Haha, in ep 7, Janey-E tells the Fusco detectives "Dougie's been under a lot of stress lately, and if you want to know the truth, so have I." She doesn't say this to the Mitchums, but it's funny knowing it's a line repeated by them later in the season. "The gently caress is wrong with this neighborhood?" "People are under a lot of stress, Bradley."
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 02:03
|
|
|
NObodyNOWHERE posted:I don't know why you would assume that was directly in response to you. I was making a joke because the sentiment was expressed by a couple of people that Laura was robbed of her victory over the forces of evil when Cooper altered her death to save her. I thought that was funny because I find it a stretch to think Laura would take that attitude and, as the victim, her perspective on her resurrection seems to be more relevant than that of all of us rando dudes in a forum thread. That point is kinda of important because Laura's whole deal in her final night was that she already knew on some level that BOB wanted her. She knew he was going to possess her and wreck havoc over everyone she ever loved. That's why against Cooper's advice she does put the owl cave ring on at the final moment so that BOB couldn't possess her, knowing full well the alternative was. But yeah now you get all this time paradox stuff and it gets more complicated. Even then sure, it's better to be alive but apparently it didn't work so good anyways, yeah she's alive, but she's found in a house with a dead guy.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 02:03
|
|
|
Im pretty sure the only reason cooper would have to mess with Judy is to save Laura.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 02:05
|
|
|
laura didnt deserve to be saved
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 02:16
|
|
|
Fados posted:That point is kinda of important because Laura's whole deal in her final night was that she already knew on some level that BOB wanted her. She knew he was going to possess her and wreck havoc over everyone she ever loved. That's why against Cooper's advice she does put the owl cave ring on at the final moment so that BOB couldn't possess her, knowing full well the alternative was. Not being dead anymore doesn't cancel out what she accomplished. She still wasn't possessed and she's alive too. She can have both things. And, maybe it's just me, but 100 of 100 times I will take being alive in a house with a dead guy rather than raped and dead, even if that means I don't get to have the memory of my moral victory middle-finger over the guy that raped and killed me. terminal chillness posted:Im pretty sure the only reason cooper would have to mess with Judy is to save Laura. You think the only reason why Cooper might be interested in defeating an ancient malevolent spirit entity that has been the source of generations of horrific pain and suffering is to save one girl?
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 02:17
|
|
|
Did the Ghostwood development project ever come to fruition?
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 02:17
|
|
|
NObodyNOWHERE posted:"Ah man, I'm not dead anymore! You've ruined my victory against the evil force that raped and murdered me! I wish I was still raped and dead! That would show him!" - A thing that would never be said by anyone at all ever Did you fall asleep at the end of FWWM or something?
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 02:18
|
|
|
My biggest takeaway from this season is that I want to hang out with The Fireman at The Fire House. The place seems very chill.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 02:18
|
|
|
I woke up last night with sleep paralysis and saw Bob at the foot of bed. Its the third time I've ever had sleep paralysis, and I have very mixed feelings on ep18, but if it can do that to me, it much have been pretty good. As for all these theories floating around, it doesn't feel to me like they take into account something I thought was pretty obvious. The cooper in ep18 was somehow a mix of coop and doppleganger, there were for sure hints of Danzig in there. I saw a couple people mention this last night, then the idea kinda dropped off.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 02:19
|
|
|
Yeah, for me, I noticed that issue strongest when he was at the diner; he never said whether he wanted coffee. Coop always does and Boop turns coffee down. I wasn't sure how we were supposed to interpret New Cooper (Noop?) neither wanting nor not wanting coffee, other than that he's neither Coop or Boop in this loop. But does he want soup?
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 02:26
|
|
|
cis autodrag posted:Did you fall asleep at the end of FWWM or something? What if at the end of FWWM there was a third option available to Laura in which she could be alive and also not possessed? Do you think that maybe she would have considered door number three?
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 02:28
|
|
|
NObodyNOWHERE posted:You think the only reason why Cooper might be interested in defeating an ancient malevolent spirit entity that has been the source of generations of horrific pain and suffering is to save one girl? That's literally the plot of Twin Peaks.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 02:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 19:52 |
|
|
That's reductive in the extreme. Seems like the net benefit of beating the big bad extends beyond helping one girl and I'm pretty sure that an FBI agent tasked with protecting people would be aware of that.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 02:31
|
|