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Backpacking with a dog can throw all sorts of complications in the mix. I know the Labrador I had would most likely manage to puncture my inflatable mat, the tent floor, or my down bag if I let him in the tent. I have only done a couple overnighters with a dog, but it wasn't too cold for him just to sleep below my hammock... I'd probably go for a ridgerest/or z-rest mat strapped to the outside of my pack. They suck for side sleeping, but are cheap and are fine at keeping your backside warm. Also regarding dog stuff: They aren't so great at letting you know how tired there are. When hiking longer distance they might just push themselves to the point that they plop down and refuse to go any further. CopperHound fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Aug 28, 2017 |
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Aug 28, 2017 16:23
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CopperHound posted:Several months later I decided to do something about not having a pot stand for my alcohol stove: This is awesome! That turned out great--thanks for sharing the link! I added it to the OP  blue squares posted:Still? Shachi posted:I'm just getting started and trying to build gear on a budget. I live in the south east (carolinas) and have good proximity to a lot of good places to backpack and being newly divorced...have a lot of time on my hands I'd like to steer into something productive that isn't chasing skirt or hanging out in bars or staying home with the vidja games. Congrats! You bought the right stuff--it's better to just get something OK to get started, and then you can upgrade your gear to something lighter over time as you figure out what you want and need. Don't go too crazy spending upfront. That being said, since you're in a tent, an inflatable pad is ABSOLUTELY worth its weight in gold for comfort. I like my REI flash pad, and the inflator makes a good pillow as well. If you have an REI nearby, try out several inflatable pads with some r-value since half the point of a pad is to protect you from the ground sucking out all your heat through convection, even with a sleeping bag. Light, inflatable pads have gotten really good in the last several years, absolutely worth it for a good nights sleep. If you're in the winter, you can double up pads with a cheap blue closed cell foam pad for extra r-value, but otherwise I'd get an inflatable with something like 3.5-4 to get you through 3 seasons comfortably.
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Aug 28, 2017 17:29
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Leperflesh posted:Trip report: A small foam pad works great to make comfy chairs out of rocks and logs. A hammock makes the best camp chair though, and doesn't weigh anything extra if you're using it for your sleeping arrangements Tents these days are awesome for how lightweight they've become. If you want to do ultralight, I use something like this for my hammock (or bivy if I'm on the ground), it's just a Hex Tarp you can string between two trees and a small ground pad to insulate me from the ground on trips I don't bring my hammock because of the group I go with. One of these might work for you: https://sectionhiker.com/twelve-ultralight-tents-and-shelters-part-1/. The REI quarter dome, MSR hubba Hubba, or Copper Spur tents might also interest you. The e-vent bivy only weighs something like a pound if you want to go ultralight. Those kelty external frame packs actually don't weigh hardly any more than most internal packs, plus they haul gear more comfortably, especially if you have a lot of it. If you want any weight savings, and if you're looking for a new pack, skip the Ospreys and other internal frames and buy a Zpacks Arc Haul pack. It's essentially the same price (~300$), but it has much bigger and more useful hip belt pockets, just as much storage and durability with the dyneema fabric, is waterproof, and most importantly, it weighs three pounds less. This is with the caveat that it works best if your pack is under thirty pounds, and weighs no more than 40. But considering you save three pounds for the same drat price point as an Osprey pack, why the hell not? Mine is comfier than my old Osprey Volt 70, only reason I'd use that one again is for winter backpacking where I want to bring a ton of crap. Ditch the paracord--it's crap cord. Some extra cord is handy to have, but there's better stuff out there like Amsteel. Also go through your medkit and get rid of anything you don't know how to use or wouldn't immediately go for in an emergency, and remember any real emergency involves someone else hiking out for help and evacuation. Ounces add up to pounds fast. Ditch the shovel (unless you're building foxholes and trenches). Buy a plastic spade or the Deuce of Spades Only weighs .6 ounces and digs great holes. Everyone always brings way too much food. Just figure out what meals you're going to eat, buy dehydrated meals from Packit Gourmet, and pack a few snacks for in between. People can live weeks without eating, water is substantially more important-you can only live days without it. If you're in popular areas and parks, and let people know where you're going and when you're getting back, you won't get lost for days so long as you pay attention and don't do stupid stuff in unknown areas where nobody knows you're there. Even if you do get lost, so long as someone reports you being missing to a ranger or you register at the trailhead/ranger station, they'll organize search parties and more than likely find you if you don't get back on time. Plus if you keep walking in one direction you'll find a road or something eventually to get you back to civilization. I'm not a big fan of water bladders--they taste awful and leach petroleum byproduct vapor into the water if they get hot, are prone to freezing and puncturing/leaking, and are drat near impossible to adequately clean. Gatorade bottles or wide mouth nalgene are absolutely the way to go. More awkward to carry, but far more reliable and taste a lot better. A buddy of mine used one on a winter backpacking trip, and the hose froze and punctured, leaking all over his sleeping bag. He then tried to dry it by the fire and accidentally ignited the edge of his bag. Some people like them because they're easier to access, especially while biking and stuff, so it's up to you... My experience is that they taste like poo poo over the course of a trip, and disaster prone. A puffy jacket makes a great pillow, and a good midweight puffy is always something I carry except for maybe the hottest month of the year. But even then it's probably because I'm kayak camping instead of backpacking. Camp shoes are an absolute essential in my book, you gotta let your feet air out and dry at the end of the day, plus nobody wants to lace up their shoes or boots to go pee in the middle of the night. I use Xero sandals that I really like, and I see tons of people with Crocs for camp shoes. A dollar pair of flip flops also works great, I just like the Xeros because I can hike in them and I've had a boot sole blow out in the middle of the trip before, and was able to hike out with the chacos I had brought as camp shoes. Congrats for getting started backpacking! You're going through the same growing pains as anybody else--just keep asking questions and always keep re-evaluating your gear to see what you can improve over time or ditch altogether. A lighter pack makes everything much more enjoyable all around.
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Aug 28, 2017 17:46
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Shachi posted:I'm just getting started and trying to build gear on a budget. I live in the south east (carolinas) and have good proximity to a lot of good places to backpack and being newly divorced...have a lot of time on my hands I'd like to steer into something productive that isn't chasing skirt or hanging out in bars or staying home with the vidja games. Awesome. (I guess not the divorce part ... but maybe it is depending on your outlook) I think going with a tent is the best starter option. It provides the most flexibility and is a good basecamp for getting outdoors until you're seasoned enough to know what you like and if you want something else. Hammocking is a little more niche and I would only recommend to people who have tented a lot in the past and are looking for something different. A 4lb backpacking tent is great for a starter. Its not feather-light but its light enough not to need upgrading right away. It should do fine for many years to come. The 44L backpack might be on the small side. It will work for a quick overnight or two but its going to be small for anything longer than that unless you go ultralight and shave ounces everywhere. The good thing is it will force you to only bring necessary items. If you plan to overnight with your dog, they can always carry their own food usually though dog packs aren't very cheap. You can make the most room of your pack by keeping the tent on the outside and stuffing everything else inside your pack. For the sleeping bag, I really recommend the Kelty Cosmic you're looking at. Its hard to beat for the price. As far as sleeping pads go, determine how you sleep and cater to that. I'm a side sleeper so it took me a while to find the right pad. I tried forcing myself to sleep on my back but I never stay that way. I went with a folding foam pad at first but it killed me. I didn't get a good nights sleep on a foam pad and I just can't sleep on my back. Self inflating pads were still too thin and I always ended up feeling the ground through the pad and waking up throughout the night. I use a Big Agnes insulated Q core pad now and its heavenly, its also lighter and smaller than my thermarest self inflating pad. Personally I think that if you're going to go insulated and you're picky about comfort, just go full inflated. Self inflating pads just seem like a weird middle ground of sacrificing comfort but increasing weight and bulk. I would either go folding foam pad (super light) or full inflatable (super comfortable). I would also recommend starting out with an insulated pad from the beginning. You don't notice extra heat in warm weather but you notice the warmth when its cold. Good luck, try to avoid the gadget/knife black hole. Lots of people sperg out buying giant gently caress-off survival knives only to wind up carrying a tiny pocket knife when they realize their visions of knife fighting a grizzly bear are a lot less common than the battle of opening the plastic around the cheddar cheese. Also, there are a lot of "neat" gadgets. You don't need most of them and they all weigh something. One of my good friends is this guy. He always finds something he thinks is cool and then his pack weighs 50lbs. Start bringing a tiny notepad with you and keep track of things you bring and didn't use or things you felt you really needed but didn't have.
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Aug 28, 2017 18:12
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First off thanks very much for this comprehensive reply! I really appreciate it.OSU_Matthew posted:A small foam pad works great to make comfy chairs out of rocks and logs. A hammock makes the best camp chair though, and doesn't weigh anything extra if you're using it for your sleeping arrangements I've put a fair amount of thought into the hammock thing. Based on following links and reading up and stuff, I've concluded that once you factor in a rain fly, good tree attachment, your underlayer and overlayer, etc. you are maybe saving a pound or two vs. a two-person tent; and I'd prefer the tent that lets me sleep next to my wife, definitively keep bugs out, and camp where there aren't two trees at a convenient distance from one another. That said, there are some super lightweight hammocks, and using one as an in-camp relaxing spot slash off-the-ground chair might be fun. Especially for car camping where the weight isn't important. quote:One of these might work for you: https://sectionhiker.com/twelve-ultralight-tents-and-shelters-part-1/. quote:Those kelty external frame packs actually don't weigh hardly any more than most internal packs, plus they haul gear more comfortably, especially if you have a lot of it. If you want any weight savings, and if you're looking for a new pack, skip the Ospreys and other internal frames and buy a Zpacks Arc Haul pack. Someone linked the zpacks a page or two ago and I already took a look. If I decide to replace my pack, it's at the top of the list. The main reason I'd do it is for a smaller pack - my Kelty is as you said probably fine especially for larger/longer trips, but it's severe overkill for a two-day trip. I had ~35lbs of gear including my sleeping bag and tent in mine, and still had probably a third to a half of its max capacity left to go. quote:Ditch the paracord--it's crap cord. Some extra cord is handy to have, but there's better stuff out there like Amsteel. I intentionally got 750lb as a better cord than the 500lb stuff that is standard. It's not climbing cord and I'd never rely on it for that; it's really just "camp cord" which I've always found a use for. It also has just a bit of stretch, and is just the right amount of "slippery" to make tying and untying knots nice, without being too slick to hold e.g. a sheepshank or whatever. That said, that amsteel stuff looks to be pretty lightweight. I can see it floats which I imagine is one benefit for your canoe camping. And 1400lbs test at 7/64ths and .3lbs for 100' is pretty drat nice. $30 for 100' is more than I need to spend right now on camp rope though. The paracord is fine. quote:Also go through your medkit and get rid of anything you don't know how to use or wouldn't immediately go for in an emergency, and remember any real emergency involves someone else hiking out for help and evacuation. Waaay ahead of you on this one. My medkit is probably only about 20% it's original contents at this point; most people who buy one never know what's in it, have no idea how to use half the stuff in it, and don't bother to replace the poo poo that expires. Mine has the original tweezers and scissors, and... that's about it. I've actually had to do some light first aid in the wilderness before. I find the most useful things to bring are painkillers, allergy meds, moleskin, and band aids (I get the waterproof type). I always bring some sterile gauze too, in case I need to do a compress on a severe cut or something, and I have that sticky fabric tape stuff. A small ace bandage and some sterile wipes round it out. Oh, I also pack rubbing alcohol, because... hey, it's actually really nice for rubbing on your feet after a hot hike! I've ditched the pocketbook, the snake bite vials for storing I don't know, pieces of snake? The expired pads of whatnot, the lovely cheap as gently caress horrible bandages, the ripped open sticky gauze pads in paper packs that never survive even a single hike intact because the paper rips just from being folded/compressed/crumpled a bit, etc. etc. quote:Ounces add up to pounds fast. Ditch the shovel (unless you're building foxholes and trenches). Buy a plastic spade or the Deuce of Spades Only weighs .6 ounces and digs great holes. I'm liking the "dig with a stake" idea. The cheap bastard in me cannot bring himself to pay $19.95 for a loving trowel I could make myself out of sheet aluminum in my garage in about half an hour. quote:Everyone always brings way too much food. Just figure out what meals you're going to eat, buy dehydrated meals from Packit Gourmet, and pack a few snacks for in between. Yeah. What we really need to do is just hike more, and that will give us more of a feel for how many calories we're really demanding on a backpacking trip of a given length. On top of that, though, is the enjoyment factor. My wife is not totally on board with rough living. She is not gonna go on a camping trip where we don't have hot chocolate, tea (with milk in it, which can't be powdered milk of course), delicious snacks, etc. etc. At least, not yet. If it were just me, I'd be OK with subsisting on tortillas, nuts, freeze dried fruit, and beef jerky for a few days. quote:I'm not a big fan of water bladders--they taste awful and leach petroleum byproduct vapor into the water if they get hot If you're talking about BPA, the camelback bladders are already BPA free, just like nalgene. If you're looking to avoid plastic entirely... well, gatorade and nalgene are plastic, you need an aluminum canteen. I have not noticed a bad taste from our camelbacks, and the way to clean them is with a diluted bleach wash. I'm with you on the durability thing though, that's my chieftest concern with these. When I was a boy scout we all carried aluminum canteens - you know, the ones with fabric on the outside, which you can get wet for a bit of evaporative cooling effect to keep the water from being unpleasantly warm to drink. https://www.amazon.com/Laken-Aluminum-Canteen-Bottle-Shoulder/dp/B00C5J51YY/ Probably not on an ultralight backpacker's list, but if you want to completely avoid plastic leaching, you may have to go glass or metal, because even BPA free plastics may be leaching stuff into the water. Or maybe not, that study was heavily criticized. Either way, there's no indication a camelback is worse than a nalgene bottle for leaching. But I'm not worried regardless. Guzzling some possible tiny amount of leaching petroleum products from a plastic container for two to four days is not going to give me enough of a dose to really matter. quote:A buddy of mine used one on a winter backpacking trip, and the hose froze and punctured Yup. A full nalgene or gatorade bottle that freezes is also going to rupture. Water expands when it freezes, and so you have to keep your drinking water in something that can expand, including any hoses/tubes/whatever... or keep it from freezing, or leave it open. quote:A puffy jacket makes a great pillow, and a good midweight puffy is always something I carry except for maybe the hottest month of the year. But even then it's probably because I'm kayak camping instead of backpacking. Hmmmm. My wife loves her puffy vest. Maybe I'll look into that as a top layer option. quote:Camp shoes are an absolute essential in my book, you gotta let your feet air out and dry at the end of the day, plus nobody wants to lace up their shoes or boots to go pee in the middle of the night. I use Xero sandals that I really like, and I see tons of people with Crocs for camp shoes. A dollar pair of flip flops also works great, I just like the Xeros because I can hike in them and I've had a boot sole blow out in the middle of the trip before, and was able to hike out with the chacos I had brought as camp shoes. I've got dollar flip flops, they're super super light, but I've realized my camp shoes need to be close-toed. Stumbling around in the sticks and weeds at 2 AM to get to the latrine is not a great time to have your feet exposed. I'm looking at close-toed sandals right now. quote:Congrats for getting started backpacking! You're going through the same growing pains as anybody else--just keep asking questions and always keep re-evaluating your gear to see what you can improve over time or ditch altogether. A lighter pack makes everything much more enjoyable all around. Yeah, maybe I gave a false impression; I've been backpacking California since I was a cub scout. But I took like a 15 year break after I hurt my knee, and really hadn't done a ton of backpacking trips after my early 20s. It seems there's a lot of new equipment available now. Plus obsessing over kit is fun, right? Verman posted:Lots of people sperg out buying giant gently caress-off survival knives only to wind up carrying a tiny pocket knife when they realize their visions of knife fighting a grizzly bear are a lot less common than the battle of opening the plastic around the cheddar cheese. Thiiiis! I carry a small Gerber multitool, it has a saw blade and a good sharp knife, scissors, a bottle opener, a can opener, and... probably two more things I never use. It's perfect, I've never needed a larger knife. A big knife might be good if you're actually hunting deer or something, but otherwise, nah. My Bowie stays home, it's cool to hold and look at but I am not skinning bears. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Aug 28, 2017 |
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Aug 28, 2017 18:45
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Verman posted:Awesome. (I guess not the divorce part ... but maybe it is depending on your outlook) I got the 44 because the 50 seemed overkill and talking with some guys at work they too mentioned the whole packing too much just because they could. Yeah I found the tent on sale at Dicks this past week for 50% off and considered it a sign from the universe. It's a kelty temptest 2. Nothing to write home about but coming in at 4lbs for $60 its about as much as what a hammock/fly/bugnet/straps etc etc. system was going to weigh according to almost everyone I've talked to. The pad is the next place where I'm stuck. I'm trying to get max value on the things I buy ie. being able to use them all year long and so I got concerned when I started reading more about the R-value on gear that I see being highly recommended for beginners to start out with and then seeing that they offered little to no insulation. I think I'm entirely sold against the self inflatables...they don't pack up much smaller than a pad and offer almost no difference in comfort and weigh like 3x as much. So right now it's just a toss between a foam pad that is bulky yet cheap and gives good insul or bite the bullet and spend over $100 on an inflatable that I'm kind of nervous about waking up on the ground in the middle of the night with, as has been my previous experiences with cheap air mattress for car camping. Once I get the sleeping situation figured out I think I'm mostly good to go. I'm gonna try the alcohol stove route for simplicity sake and weight. Hot meals aren't real high on my list of priorities anyhow. As for gadgets and multi tools I'm already immune to their allure from being 10 years in LE. Newbies in any tactical field always go out and splurge on tacticLOL junk and it's hilarious to watch. I plan on bringing a basic knife and a spork and whatever else doesn't work from there then I hosed up something. I'm not really beyond digging a shitter with a stick or trek pole. Other than that it's a mater of sorting out water system. I was gonna try to fashion an in-line system with a platypus bag and an a sawyer mini. A couple of friends suggested forgoeing the hydro bags because they don't like carrying the weight. When I asked them what they carried they said they carried two 1 liter smart water bottles....to which I don't understand the difference between that and a 2L platypus bag. I might just go filter and bottle to start and get a bag later. I'm anxious to get out sometime in the next two weekends and see how I do. There's a decent state part within 30 mins that I mapped at least a 38 mile loop through but also offers a chance to bug out every few miles. I'm also going to wait on shoes. Gonna try my minimal trail runners I already have and see how that feels to start. I worry they wont be enough support but we'll see. I read a lot of conflicting arguments about ankle support and needing boots for heavy packs etc.
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Aug 28, 2017 19:16
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Re: inflatable pads, the REI Flash version isn't bad for weight/warmth/price compared to some of the more expensive ones like the Neo Air. If you're thinking about backpacking in the winter or deep into the shoulder seasons then maybe go with an insulated pad with an R-value of 5+ or something but I think for even fall backpacking a "regular" pad with a decent r-value (like the REI flash has one of 3.7, Neo Air XLite is 3.9) should be fine down to freezing or the 20's. Inflatable pads like that do run into the problem of spots that are compressed most often (hips and shoulders for side sleepers, for example) will be more likely to be cold spots since you're reducing the amount of insulating air between you and the cold ground. Also keep in mind if you can stand using a mummy cut sleeping pad or want a full size rectangle one. edit: if it makes you feel any better, I hiked the JMT and several other trips with an older version of the REI flash with no puncture problems (the one way valve for inflating broke however so I got a refund on it...I could still inflate it, it was just more of a pain to do so), and my dad has put in like 700 miles or so perhaps on an Exped without issue. They're pretty good these days and often come with a repair kit. quote:I'm also going to wait on shoes. Gonna try my minimal trail runners I already have and see how that feels to start. I worry they wont be enough support but we'll see. I read a lot of conflicting arguments about ankle support and needing boots for heavy packs etc. My experience is that pretty minimal trail runners can be just fine with pack weights 35 lbs and under, providing you're in decent shape yourself and don't have foot problems. I don't know if I'd consider my ankles good or bad but I've sprained them pretty bad a bunch of times playing frisbee and ultimately didn't have much trouble backpacking in trail runners. There's some school of thought that you're more likely to roll your ankles in boots because you're higher from the ground with the thicker soles, etc, but that could just be people trying to justify their opinions. Levitate fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Aug 28, 2017 |
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Aug 28, 2017 19:18
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Levitate posted:Re: inflatable pads, the REI Flash version isn't bad for weight/warmth/price compared to some of the more expensive ones like the Neo Air. Leperflesh posted:I find the most useful things to bring are painkillers, allergy meds, moleskin, and band aids (I get the waterproof type).
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Aug 28, 2017 20:00
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Shachi posted:I see the Kelty Cosmic Down 20 recommended a lot online so I think I might go that direction but as for a sleeping pad I'm lost. As soon as I settled on something I learned more about R value on pads. I guess my question is: Is R value on your pad extremely important or is this something that can be supplemented with something like a foil E-blanket underneath? I was looking into a Nemo Astro I've seen them online as low as 40 and 50 bux The Cosmic Down is a solid choice. Re: R-value: for three season camping, R 1-3 is recommended. For winter camping, you'll want 4+. One thing to keep in mind is that R-value is additive. I have a Big Agnes Air Core (3"+ thick/inflatable) with a 1.0 R-value. I use this + my Cosmic Down almost all year. If I do any winter camping, or if the temps are dropping into the 40s, I'll bring along my Therm-A-Rest RidgeRest SOLite Sleeping Pad (2.8 R-value) and put that underneath my inflatable, effectively having 3.8 R-value insulation underneath me.
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Aug 28, 2017 20:02
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CopperHound posted:Don't forget a few loperamide pills. You most likely won't need it, but it can make a very unpleasant experience bearable. Immodium makes me vomit uncontrollably. I have IBS and take medication for it (hyoscamine) and that works well for me, but on the rare occasion when it doesn't, I haven't got a backup figured out yet. Been meaning to ask my doctor. Most people should definitely bring Immodium/loperamide, but I would highly recommend trying it out and seeing if you have a negative reaction before you're taking it out on a trail where you're already weak and vulnerable from diarrhea.
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Aug 28, 2017 20:32
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Two 1L smart bottles come in lighter than a 2L platy. They are also much cheaper to buy and if my water container breaks I have a backup. Also regarding under quilts if you do a diy quilt toss in a dart on the head a foot. Does wonders for making a small shelf that you feet can hook into. Helps keep them in place very nicely. Worth the small hassle when I built mine. MoldyFrog fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Aug 28, 2017 |
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Aug 28, 2017 21:33
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Leave your drat dog at home.
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Aug 28, 2017 21:36
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Shachi posted:The pad is the next place where I'm stuck. I'm trying to get max value on the things I buy ie. being able to use them all year long and so I got concerned when I started reading more about the R-value on gear that I see being highly recommended for beginners to start out with and then seeing that they offered little to no insulation. I think I'm entirely sold against the self inflatables...they don't pack up much smaller than a pad and offer almost no difference in comfort and weigh like 3x as much. So right now it's just a toss between a foam pad that is bulky yet cheap and gives good insul or bite the bullet and spend over $100 on an inflatable that I'm kind of nervous about waking up on the ground in the middle of the night with, as has been my previous experiences with cheap air mattress for car camping. For what its worth, I've had both my thermarest self inflating for 7 years and my Big Agnes inflatable for 5+ years with zero leak issues and I've camped on all kinds of terrain from ice and snow to sticks, rocks and dirt. The difference between a $7 plastic mattress from walmart and a $100 pad from a reputable brand is pretty significant in terms of durability. Buy it from a place reputable dealer and you likely have a decent return/warranty policy. Shachi posted:Water system. I was gonna try to fashion an in-line system with a platypus bag and an a sawyer mini. A couple of friends suggested forgoeing the hydro bags because they don't like carrying the weight. When I asked them what they carried they said they carried two 1 liter smart water bottles....to which I don't understand the difference between that and a 2L platypus bag. I might just go filter and bottle to start and get a bag later. I'm anxious to get out sometime in the next two weekends and see how I do. There's a decent state part within 30 mins that I mapped at least a 38 mile loop through but also offers a chance to bug out every few miles. I'm a big fan of gravity/bladder systems. They are super easy and no moving parts means less to go wrong. Any brand will work for a filter, the sawyer might be the cheapest. I prefer Platypus brand reservoirs though. The material they use doesn't seem to taste like plastic or get as gross as some of the softer silicone type materials. Shachi posted:I'm also going to wait on shoes. Gonna try my minimal trail runners I already have and see how that feels to start. I worry they wont be enough support but we'll see. I read a lot of conflicting arguments about ankle support and needing boots for heavy packs etc. I know its all personal anecdote but I prefer trail runners for most backpacking needs. I'm not a big guy (5'10" 160lbs) and I wear TRs on backpacking trips with a 40lb pack regularly. They are infinitely more comfortable, breathable and much nicer to scramble in. My boots are mostly for mountaineering and cold/snow related stuff. For boots to give you ankle support, they would need to go well over your ankle bone for them to give you support. Most backpacking boots sit below the ankle bone or mid-height. Stronger ankles are a better alternative. I play hockey so my ankles are pretty strong and I don't tend to roll them often. A friend of mine would roll his ankle several times a day and has had nagging injuries on trips in the past. He's recently done PT where they focused on strengthening his muscles and he had zero issues on our last trip which involved a lot more injury prone terrain. I think a lot can be said about taking your time, slowing down, paying attention to foot placement, and just being careful. Its usually stupid poo poo that ends up causing an issue like the steep dusty path going up to the shitter.
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Aug 28, 2017 21:49
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Verman posted:I know its all personal anecdote but I prefer trail runners for most backpacking needs. I'm not a big guy (5'10" 160lbs) and I wear TRs on backpacking trips with a 40lb pack regularly. They are infinitely more comfortable, breathable and much nicer to scramble in. My boots are mostly for mountaineering and cold/snow related stuff. For boots to give you ankle support, they would need to go well over your ankle bone for them to give you support. Most backpacking boots sit below the ankle bone or mid-height. Stronger ankles are a better alternative. I play hockey so my ankles are pretty strong and I don't tend to roll them often. A friend of mine would roll his ankle several times a day and has had nagging injuries on trips in the past. He's recently done PT where they focused on strengthening his muscles and he had zero issues on our last trip which involved a lot more injury prone terrain. I think a lot can be said about taking your time, slowing down, paying attention to foot placement, and just being careful. Its usually stupid poo poo that ends up causing an issue like the steep dusty path going up to the shitter. You and I are the same size so that's good to hear. These are minimal shoes though that I got back when the fad was real big. I've put a decent amount of miles on them in the past doing O-course races and they've been great. The appeal to me is definitely that they give me a nice tactile feel of the ground and they dry out as fast as sandals. My only concern is hinking puts consierable more impact on the heel strike for which these shoes have no coushining for. It's just going to be a matter of trying it out but it beats the poo poo out of breaking in new boots much less buying them. I'm going to look more into this cumulative R value thing. A cheapish 1.5 R value inflatable for the comfort/small pack size/weight advantages coupled with a decent 20 degree mummy bag seems like it would be ok. Add in a cheap Z-line which I think they are rated at 3 something youd be sitting on a 4 or 5 R value platform no? The downside of course being having to haul a pad in addition to your inflatable.
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Aug 28, 2017 22:03
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I find that when I wear low-cut shoes, either trail runners or my water shoes, I end up knocking my ankle into things more often, or rather notice that my ankles knocking more often than I do when I'm wearing boots. I also do a pretty good bit of bushwhacking and boots with socks pulled up mid calf save me from a lot of thorns and other scrapes.
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Aug 28, 2017 22:27
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I'm 6' and 160lbs. Trailrunners are great. Been using them for about three years now without issue. Breathability is a big plus. Here in the PNW we get a lot of rain. My feet are going to get wet no matter what I do eventually. Having something that breathes is great. Wet trailrunners don't feel heavy. A pair of my old boots wet, now that you could feel the weight. I don't have much issue with heel strike. I do pop things out of socket somewhat easy. I don't go out anymore without hiking poles. The stability they bring means my knee stays where it's supposed to be and after a hard day it's just a bit tender vs swollen.
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Aug 28, 2017 23:39
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MoldyFrog posted:Two 1L smart bottles come in lighter than a 2L platy. They are also much cheaper to buy and if my water container breaks I have a backup. Where I go, the water is crystal clear fresh out of glaciers and just needs Aquatab treatment, but the water is also about 4C so it takes over an hour to treat it. Two bottles lets me ensure I have water at all times rather than having to go without. Treat one, drink the other.
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Aug 29, 2017 01:53
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Regarding ankle support, apart from all the anecdotal arguments you hear this way or that, this is (unsurprisingly) something that has recieved a fair amount of research attention in sports science and for the military. The bottom line is that any effects that are measured tend to be weak, and vary a lot from study to study. This is a pretty good sign that it doesn't really matter. I think ankle support shouldn't really be a factor in shoe selection. I prefer trail runners due to light weight, less moisture retention, and faster drying. I almost always use trail runners unless I have several good reasons to use boots. Reasons to use boots: -Can actually keep your feet and socks dry in dry snow -Warmer in snow -More authoritative plunge stepping in snow -Better crampon compatibility -Can get boots with substantially stiffer (albiet less grippy) sole material than runners. Good for snow slopes, and for some kinds of scrambling where edging is more important than traction or smearing. -Better ankle protection (but I find long pants + mini-gaiters provide good-enough protection in scree/talus and brush when wearing trail runners). So, as with Verman, mostly snow/mountain stuff. And even then, in shoulder seasons (or record snow years like this summer in CA) I will most likely use trail runners since the presence of significant amounts of ground water, wet snow, and stream crossings make boots a hassle. Regarding sleeping pads--if your pad is not warm enough, you can't really correct that deficiency with e.g. a warming sleeping bag, and foam pads have a limit to how warm they can practically be before getting huge. As you note, inflatable pads are pretty much categorically superior to self-inflating pads. I would just start with a decent foam pad with and r-value of 2-3, and consider upgrading if you find yourself being cold in whatever conditions you backpack in. For inflatables, I have been using a thermarest for awhile and it's great. But recently I got a 2-person pad from exped and holy poo poo is their valve & inflating system way more convenient than thermarest.
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Aug 29, 2017 05:51
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I'd rather just spend more on a good inflatable than a cheaper one and also a CCF pad just to get the r value up
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Aug 29, 2017 05:59
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From everything I've read regarding pads is they need to match up. Meaning most complaints with my x degree rated bag did not work at +20 it's rating is tied to the having a cheap low R value pad they are mating with their bag. The ground will steal all your body heat if you let it.
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Aug 29, 2017 18:22
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Just buy one good pad with an R-value around 4 and you won't need a second pad unless you're sleeping on top of ice and snow in real winter conditions. You can find an insulated pad rated for 15-20º for less than $100 and it should likely weigh around 1lb 5oz. Check out Moosejaw, Campmor (20% off code SUMMER), backcountry etc.
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Aug 29, 2017 18:48
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Leperflesh posted:
Sorry, should have clarified--it's not BPA I'm talking about, just the cheap lovely camelback my girlfriend brought for hiking around Moab last week. I had some gatorade bottles I filled up and threw in my daypack (which worked out great), but her water bladder (which I had rinsed with hot water before filling it and bringing it along) heated up and over the course of the day the water inside became drat near undrinkable from the lining leaching off into the water. The thing tasted like chemical runoff, and even subsequent fills didn't improve the flavor much. It's not any exposure to anything toxic I'm worried about, just the dogshit taste. The whole BPA concern in water bottles is kinda funny though, since the thermal paper used for receipts actually uses the active form of BPA, and frequently handling receipts will actually cause BPA to show up in your bloodstream whereas it's just really not so much an issue on water bottles. I'm sure higher quality bladders don't have this issue, and maybe it was a one-off thing, but it was a truly repugnant experience. Plus I've never had any issues with water bottles rupturing if they freeze, and they take a whole heck of a lot longer to freeze since they have a greater thermal mass that's concentrated in the bottle instead of a narrow exposed neck with weak connections. Winter backpacking is my absolute favorite time to go, and I've been out backpacking down to -7* F and never had any issues with leaky water bottles. Absolutely--Obsessing over kit is one of the best parts. It's incredibly satisfying to find something that just works great out in the backcountry, to just have that feeling that you can take care of yourself. I especially love finding edible plants and fruits, because you can just absolutely feast if you're in the right place and time of the year, like right now with PawPaws. Which speaking of the food, absolutely bring that hot chocolate or s'mores or some other treat with you--it hardly weighs anything and it's an awesome endcap to the day. I usually bring a couple packets of hot chocolate for a nice hot drink before bed in the wintertime I used to cook a lot more but I hate cleaning and sterilizing dishes while backpacking, so I've mostly just switched over to Packit Gourmet because it's a hell of a lot more convenient, and just tastes drat good, especially for freeze dried meals. Plus they have a bunch of meals that you don't even have to boil water for, like the Kickin Chicken Hot Wings Wrap, which just rehydrates with cold water and is loving awesome for a quick and easy lunch.  Puffy jackets are hands down the way to go--I just picked up a thermoball hooded jacket, and it's been surprisingly great on the few trips I've taken it on, including my recent one out to Colorado. It even stayed warm in a whole days worth of drenching cold rain, which is about all I could hope for. It's nowhere near as warm as my Wiggy's sweater, but it's a good mid layer or spring/fall jacket. Shachi posted:I'm going to look more into this cumulative R value thing. A cheapish 1.5 R value inflatable for the comfort/small pack size/weight advantages coupled with a decent 20 degree mummy bag seems like it would be ok. Add in a cheap Z-line which I think they are rated at 3 something youd be sitting on a 4 or 5 R value platform no? The downside of course being having to haul a pad in addition to your inflatable. Levitate posted:
Before I switched to hammocks, this is exactly what I did for winter camping. It absolutely sucked though, because the pads kept slip sliding off one another so inevitably a leg or something would wind up with crap insulation or roll off onto the ground, waking me up in the middle of the night to readjust everything. You could probably jerry rig something with velcro, but if I were you I'd rather just buy a good inflatable with R-Value ~3-4 and you'll be good for three seasons without having to gently caress around with multiple mismatched pads. Another thought, someone mentioned Big Agnes earlier, and they have a bag with a pad that slides into a bottom pocket, so you save weight not having worthless bottom insulation on the sleeping bag, and your pad stays under you. Seems like a really clever idea, if I were starting over on the ground, I'd probably go with that honestly. Sleeping outdoors is my favorite part of backpacking, so I'd rather spend a bit extra upfront and be comfortable rather than cold and miserable.
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Aug 30, 2017 17:11
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Winter Backpacking/camping sucks. Some of your bullshit is guaranteed is get wet, and if you aren't willing to sleep with it, it's going to freeze solid in the night, and then it's real loving lame. Especially frozen boots, holy poo poo they suck. The inside will warm up just enough to give you trench foot, but not enough to actually dry out, and the outside will remain frozen solid, keeping it stiff and inflexible and especially heavy. There are very careful ways to do it so you don't end up experiencing that, but in my time working in snow with steel toes on, and just backpacking in it, I almost always have my boots freeze solid at least once a winter. As for sleeping in the cold, invest in a good ground tarp to avoid getting wet (or worse, frozen sleeping bag). Additionally, don't forget that you can also cuddle with others for warmth if it gets bad enough. Any 'but that's gay  " stereotype goes out the window once you get cold enough. I'd gladly spoon with another man once it gets into the negatives. You can also avoid spooning with men by smartly setting up your camp sites - avoid obvious areas where the wind is funneling through, buy a good tent, have a good ground tarp, and stay in your tent for a little while before you actually crash. It does wonders to warm it up during cold nights. Or you can invest in serious negative degree bags or biv sacks, but I don't like that because it seems kind of silly to have a sleeping bag for winter and a sleeping bag for summer. Also, gross but recommended: The pee tub. There will almost assuredly be a time in the winter/late or mid fall where you will wake up in your astonishingly cozy mummy bag. It will be about 3 in the morning. You will have to piss like a race horse, but every other bone in your body is telling you that this sleeping bag is the best, warmest, most coziest thing ever. This is what the pee tub is for and ONLY for. Deposit urine, remove in morning, sanitize after every use.
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Aug 31, 2017 08:03
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A White Guy posted:it seems kind of silly to have a sleeping bag for winter and a sleeping bag for summer. I've been meaning to ask: is it possible to have a 3-season bag, and then use some kind of insert or lining you add to it to get to 4-season/sub-freezing temp capability? It seems like it'd be an obvious way to avoid doubling up on gear.
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Aug 31, 2017 22:29
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I think liners only add a couple of degrees, maybe up to 5. Maybe a bivvy inside of a tent could take it lower? Other option is warmer clothes inside your bag, like a down jacket, booties, etc. Really probably depends on how extreme the temp swings between winter and summer are where you're trying to do this
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Aug 31, 2017 22:56
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I've used my 3-season bag in winter several times, just wearing extra pants, my jacket, thicker socks, and a hat. It still sucks. Shiver all night, wake up freezing, have to jump around to get blood flowing.
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Sep 1, 2017 00:13
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Leperflesh posted:I've been meaning to ask: is it possible to have a 3-season bag, and then use some kind of insert or lining you add to it to get to 4-season/sub-freezing temp capability? It seems like it'd be an obvious way to avoid doubling up on gear. Liners don't do as much as you would think they would. Maybe an additional 5-10º tops and my guess would be the thicker the more effective they would be. The other thing is that it depends on what bag/pad you currently have. If you have a 30º bag and an uninsulated pad, a liner won't be enough. If you have a 15º bag, a r5 sleeping pad, and a footprint for your tent, a liner might be the difference between waking up cold and staying asleep warm in your nylon cocoon, but it still likely won't be enough for true winter camping on snow. It just depends on how low of temperatures you want to sleep in. In general, anything pushing your limits on your sleeping bag probably requires a better sleeping bag. Thats a tough and often cosltly pill to swallow as most 0º bags get really expensive especially if you want them to be remotely lightweight and compressible. Warm up before bed (a few jumping jacks or pushups will increase your heart rate) and warm you up, sleep in long underwear, wool socks and a hat. Toss a warm water bottle in your bag before you get in. Get into your tent for a while before crawling into your sleeping bag. Just warming the air in the tent can make a huge difference. Piss as much as physically possible before going to bed. Fluid/water in your bladder works against you which is often why you have to pee when you're cold. Your body is trying to rid itself of excess water. Eat something warm before bed. If your foot box is roomy, stuff some of tomorrows clothes down there to take up space. Your body is warming the air within your sleeping bag. The less air in there the less your body has to work to keep it warm. Don't layer things on top of your sleeping bag. The loft is how the insulation works and its not like blankets on your bed, more doesn't equal better. You can also always try lighting a candle in your tent. You can make a good soda can lantern to ensure that it doesn't light anything on fire. It will provide light and heat and can be just enough to take the chill out of the air. I would ensure a vent is open though to let the smoke out. Use a ground tarp to help prevent waking up with a wet floor. Use a foam pad beneath your air pad for further protection from the ground. A bivvy might work better to keep you warm than a tent. Its a smaller climate and easier for your body to keep warm. The lovely part about sleeping in winter conditions is the frost from your breathing. Your breath is wet and it collects as condensation on the walls of your tent. In the morning, it can look like it snowed inside your tent and you could end up with a wet sleeping bag if the temps are close enough to freezing.
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Sep 1, 2017 00:43
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Most of the liners will do next to nothing. Don't grab a silk liner and expect +10 degrees. There's just not enough fabric to trap or block heat loss. A small micro fleece blanket from Wal-Mart would probably help a bit. I would trust that to add a few degrees long before I believe silk will do anything for cold temps. You pay a weight penalty but it could help in a pinch. Cheaper than a winter bag for sure and they roll pretty small.
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Sep 1, 2017 05:09
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Liners won't do poo poo really, unless it's drafts and not insufficient insulation that is causing you problems. If you want to avoid doubling up on gear, my recommendations are: 1. Have a high r-value pad (at least 4, 5+ is better) 2. Use a lower temperature rating sleeping bag than you otherwise might for summer (i.e. 20F or 15F instead of 30F) 3. Use a quilt instead of a bag to extend the comfortable sleeping range of the above two into warmer temperatures...a mummy bag would be too hot in summer 4. Have a way to securely wrap the quilt around the pad, in a way that doesn't result in drafts though. This is important in winter. 5. Incorporate your insulated clothing into your sleep system to further extend the temperature rating. 6. Consider VBL clothing for very cold temps, especially if your insulation and quilt are down, especially for extended trips. With a 20F quilt, R=5.6 pad, and wearing long underwear, warm socks, light fleece jacket, primaloft pants, and belay jacket, down beanie, I am OK down to 0F, and comfortable at 10. The clothing isn't anything I wouldn't take anyway for winter, so they aren't just sleeping gear. If you already have like a 40F mummy bag and r=3 pad for summer and don't want to buy a new sleep system, then I dunno. You can extend the tempeature rating of your bag by wearing insulated clothing, but probably not down to very cold temps and in any case your pad will become a limiting factor (wearing down/primaloft insulated clothes won't help there as they will be compressed). Others and myself have mentioned it several times, but it bears repeating--your sleeping pad will become a limiting factor in cold weather camping since it is the only real thing insulating you from the cold ground and if the ground is conducting heat away from you too quickly it won't matter how insulated you are elsewhere. Unlike your sleeping bag, there are not clothing options or shelter options to appreciably extend the insulation offered by your pad.
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Sep 1, 2017 05:49
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Be careful if you bring a hot water bottle in your bag with you - I took a survival course a few years ago and the instructors warned of us a dude who died after the bottle leaked. We probably had a lot less room for error given the nature of the course, but that would be pretty deadly in most situations.
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Sep 4, 2017 16:36
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I'm having a tough time finding a good resource online for understanding how to pick a single method of cooking and the types of foods I should prepare and bring for wilderness backpacking. Maybe I need a good YouTube series on backcountry cooking? Anyone know one?
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Sep 5, 2017 03:12
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I don't have any series but generally unless you are doing a no-cook option you're gonna be heating water and adding it to some kind of freeze-dried, dehydrated or quick cooking item. Something simple and dense in calories. All three of the later can be accomplished however you want by either using an alcohol stove, jet-boil/rocket stove, esbit or just a twig fire. I prefer alcohol for overnight, esbit for day hikes and use a mico-rocket stove when regulations make me. After you pick how to heat it's really then down to do you eat from the pot and clean it or do you do freezer bag rehydrating/cooking. I've done FBC and prefer eating from a pot myself.
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Sep 5, 2017 20:02
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Take a look around this site a bit: http://www.backpackingchef.com/
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Sep 5, 2017 20:46
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I have a JetBoil and have used it several times to cook freeze-dried package meals. I like them but they are expensive
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Sep 5, 2017 20:57
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In terms of what to pack and eat anymore thanks to America's laziness there are tons of cheap "instant" meals open to you if don't mind putting it all together yourself. On the better side so to speak there's places like backpackingpantry and others that have put together quick to make solid meals. If you are a diy fan then aim for at least 100 calories an ounce. Then you can budget about 1.5lbs a day for food. That gives you enough to be at a small deficit. I shoot for 3000+ calories myself a day, about 2lbs, as to minimize weight loss on a longer trip. For good quick options you got any of the knoor brand side dishes. Things like flavored mashed potatoes, rice and broccoli, chicken and rice. There's instant macaroni, look for the stuff with the tiny noodles. They'll cook faster and more completely than regular sized mac noodles. Bear creek soups are pretty good and pack some good calories. If any local stores have a good bulk section you can get instant refried beans, quick cooking oatmeals, hummus powder you reconstitute and toss onto some wraps you can bring. Hard cheeses and most sausages will keep a few days. There's always the ever popular snicker bars and pop tarts for calorie boosts. Bring a few ounces of oil in a bottle. A lot of extra calories an ounce there and most foods will easily take the oil. For a wider variety of options you can get into dehydrated "survival" foods at Wal-Mart. Then you get into dehydrated eggs and fruits. Instant milk and such as well. Dehydrated cheese and freeze dried meats can be added to almost anything to bulk them up and add calories. The freezer bag cooking website has a bunch of recipes. There's really a lot you can do anymore. Personally I'm a fan of soups. Harder to scorch a soup and the extra water is generally always welcome. Makes clean up easier too. I generally try to build 600 calorie blocks. One each for breakfast, lunch and dinner and than two snack blocks. At the end of day you're going to build around rice, beans or a pasta. Grab some noodles and cheese sauce and you got mac and cheese. You can add chicken or bacon easily to change it up. Switch the noodles to a thin noodle and swap the sauce for a dehydrated white sauce and you have fettuccini. Meat additions are the same. Swap out the white sauce for powdered tomatoes and spices and you got spaghetti. Toss the noodles into a bunch of water and make chicken noodle soup. Only difference between home cooking amd outdoors is that outdoors you're going to end up most likely with one main dish. You're probably not going to make food A and then make a food B side dish. It will be a big helping of something and maybe some left over snack foods. MoldyFrog fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Sep 6, 2017 |
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Sep 6, 2017 01:51
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Thanks for the great post, Moldy Frog
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Sep 6, 2017 03:01
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^^thanks Moldy Frog! I'm putting that in the OP blue squares posted:I'm having a tough time finding a good resource online for understanding how to pick a single method of cooking and the types of foods I should prepare and bring for wilderness backpacking. Maybe I need a good YouTube series on backcountry cooking? Anyone know one? Moldy Frog and everyone else have a bunch of really great suggestions--especially the hard cheeses, crackers, and meats. Those absolutely hit the spot and are great to share. Tortillas are awesome because, hey, no dishes-you can eat the plate! And speaking of no dishes, there's a company in India that just blew up on Kickstarter that are making edible spoons, called something like Bakies. My buddy got a bunch on the Kickstarter, and I've tried them and they're actually really awesome! They actually work and don't taste half bad! Sadly they're so backlogged they're only serving the Indian market at the moment. I'm really lazy and I absolutely love Packit Gourmet for awesome dehydrated meals, because all I want to do anymore is boil water. Their recipes are phenomenal, the clean up and trash is easy and self contained because they double bag it, the price is cheaper than mountain house, portions are just right, and the cook in cozy is worth it's weight in gold. Plus! Their recipes require very little water to rehydrate, which is great if water is scarce at camp, and a bunch of them rehydrate with cold water! Zero cooking required for something like a delicious hot wings chicken wrap for lunch. I absolutely cannot recommend these guys highly enough-Packit Gourmet is just tits.
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Sep 6, 2017 03:18
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One of my biggest issues is leftovers. I try to only make enough food that I know I'll be able to eat it all. I don't want to pack out dead weight and I don't want to scatter food around. I would rather cook and have to cook again or snack lb something else to supplement than have a ton of leftover food.
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Sep 6, 2017 03:36
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Verman posted:One of my biggest issues is leftovers. I try to only make enough food that I know I'll be able to eat it all. I don't want to pack out dead weight and I don't want to scatter food around. I would rather cook and have to cook again or snack lb something else to supplement than have a ton of leftover food. I've always found that I've got such a big appetite when outdoors that this is rarely a problem with boil in the bag type solutions, and if one is not enough rather than making more at the same time it's normally possible to fit an extra meal in.
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Sep 6, 2017 19:41
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pointsofdata posted:I've always found that I've got such a big appetite when outdoors that this is rarely a problem with boil in the bag type solutions, and if one is not enough rather than making more at the same time it's normally possible to fit an extra meal in. Weirdly enough, I'm a lot less hungry when I backpack, I think because I'm not getting the constant reminders to eat and advertising for delicious looking meals thrown in my face. We actually had a bear rooting around camp last weekend in Dolly Sods, because someone spilled a few bites of their dinner on the ground and didn't bother to clean it up. My buddy awoke to snuffling and snorting right outside his tent, so he blasted an alarm on his phone, and sure enough, when everyone woke up, the ground was dug up right where we all ate and there were paw prints and berry-laden bear scat nearby.
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Sep 7, 2017 16:43
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