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Metal Geir Skogul posted:I know the snes mini won't have the lag issues Boy are you in for some bad news, what little footage we have pretty much confirms the framerate is going to be really loving bad, and it seems unlikely that things have been significantly changed from the prototypes.
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Sep 5, 2017 16:03
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I mean, have you played Star Fox? cuz like, I don't know what kind of framerate improvement anyone was really expecting, but OG Star Fox has some weak framerate. I say that from a place of love.
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Sep 5, 2017 16:04
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Have you played star Fox 2? It's even worse than 1, if that was possible. Also I hadn't seen any footage. I thought that of course Nintendo would fix it with the literal infinite processing power available in their modern emu box but I guess I was wrong.
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Sep 5, 2017 16:07
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Metal Geir Skogul posted:Have you played star Fox 2? It's even worse than 1, if that was possible. I'm at work but if you dig up the Japanese model's breakdown where they show all the games, at the very end they show a few seconds of Star Fox 2, looks to be inside somewhere with the Arwing turning into a robot walker dealie, and the framerate is like 5fps-ish. I have a sneaking suspicion a lot of the reviews out there, especially with people playing it for the first time, are going to say something to the effect of "I can see why they decided not to release this" and cite the terrible performance.
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Sep 5, 2017 16:10
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Why settle for 5 seconds of Star Fox 2? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1NdLqbqn1E Also they probably never intended to "fix" the framerate, since that was the best the hardware could do. Wait for it to get dumped and use the SuperFX overclock feature in modern emulators if you want it to run at an acceptable for 2017 framerate. Karasu Tengu fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Sep 5, 2017 |
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Sep 5, 2017 16:15
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Elliotw2 posted:Why settle for 5 seconds of Star Fox 2? That video there is 100% better than the cartridges and current ROM, no joke. Like, double.
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Sep 5, 2017 16:19
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Elliotw2 posted:Why settle for 5 seconds of Star Fox 2? God drat this looks sick as hell. The framerate also doesn't really seem too bad. It actually seems better than the first game, which was still quite playable despite it.
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Sep 5, 2017 16:29
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Mak0rz posted:God drat this looks sick as hell. The framerate also doesn't really seem too bad. It actually seems better than the first game, which was still quite playable despite it. Ya, I was always "eh" on the first game, maybe its just because I haven't fired it up in awhile, but this one seems to have a lot more potential and the framerate isn't great but wasn't the slideshow I remember the first one being. Then again, maybe later levels get worse with more enemies and whatnot. Before, I couldn't care less about the Starfox games on this, but now I am a little excited for Starfox 2.
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Sep 5, 2017 16:41
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Metal Geir Skogul posted:Nintendo would fix it with the literal infinite processing power available in their modern emu box Lol what
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Sep 5, 2017 17:03
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Literal was the wrong word. I meant in comparison to the original hardware, a huge step up.
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Sep 5, 2017 17:05
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We're talking about Nintendo, though - the same company that took the emulation of Star Fox 64 on Wii U and explicitly added back in some slowdown from the original game, when it originally ran smoother than actual hardware. Something tells me they're sticklers for accuracy, and for better or worse, Star Fox running at 9-to-11 FPS is accurate.
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Sep 5, 2017 17:22
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Metal Geir Skogul posted:Literal was the wrong word. I meant in comparison to the original hardware, a huge step up. I don't think you get how emulation works, because all that extra processing power is what's making it accurate. If you want to get fancy with a stable higher framerate, you need at least a 3GHz+ multi-core processor to keep that accuracy. Shadow Hog posted:We're talking about Nintendo, though - the same company that took the emulation of Star Fox 64 on Wii U and explicitly added back in some slowdown from the original game, when it originally ran smoother than actual hardware. For better or worse, it's what most people will want to experience it as too. Not that adding a faster framerate as an option would be a bad thing, of course.
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Sep 5, 2017 17:24
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I guarantee that YouTube video is much faster than my cart here on actual hardware. I've played enough starfox 2 that I thought that video was sped up. So, is something wrong with the dumped ROM or cart setup, or did they do some magic to clean up/speed up the new release, or is it something else?
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Sep 5, 2017 17:30
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Your cart is based off a pre-release.
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Sep 5, 2017 17:33
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Metal Geir Skogul posted:I guarantee that YouTube video is much faster than my cart here on actual hardware. I've played enough starfox 2 that I thought that video was sped up. The version in the SNES Mini is a later build to the one most repro's use by several months. It's either actually finished, or was finished for the SNES Mini.
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Sep 5, 2017 17:34
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The ROM that's out there now isn't complete. It's close though. We'll header to wait and see what the final version has.
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Sep 5, 2017 17:34
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It's also possible they're setting the emulated SuperFX chip to a faster speed for StarFox 2.
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Sep 5, 2017 17:41
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maybe when the final is dumped, you can reflash your cart (or send it off). Also, given the lag for the NES mini (especially Punch Out) without a setting to offset the input timing to account for the lag, their attention to detail when it comes to accuracy isn't all that impeccable.
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Sep 5, 2017 17:42
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Remember the snes mini probably has enough horsepower to emulate SF2 faster than the original Snes and SuperFX chip could. This may not ever run as fast on original hardware even when the rom is dumped. Nothing says they can't cheat for a better experience.
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Sep 5, 2017 18:02
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Also, maybe your repro was made using an older, slower version of the SuperFX chip instead of one that Star Fox 2 would've actually used? Because I dunno, it's possible. You'd think the repro makers would know better, though - and IIRC, certain variants of the chip flat-out don't work.
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Sep 5, 2017 18:02
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Starfox 2 was supposed to use a newer SuperFX2 chip, so any rom dumped onto a cartridge using the original chip will run poorly compared to Nintendo's final release on the mini
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Sep 5, 2017 18:24
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Original SuperFX: Internally runs at 10.7 MHz, can't be upclocked without serious modification, mostly found in early StarFox runs. Only found in StarFox and possibly some Stunt Race FX cartridges. Super FX GSU: Internally still runs at 10.7 MHz, but can be upclocked to 21.4 MHz. Found in most "Super FX" games including later runs of StarFox. A modification to upclock the chip is fairly easy and if you take a donor chip in the form of this, the new cart should be able to run FX 2 games fine with the mod. Found in later StarFox cartridges, and Stunt Race FX, Vortex, Dirt Racer and Dirt Trax FX Super FX 2: Internally runs at 21.4 MHz. Essentially identical to the GSU variant except its set up in your cartridge to always be run at the full 21.4 MHz speed. Found in Doom, Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island, Winter Gold and supposedly Star Fox 2. It is known that Star Fox 2 was expected to run with at least the speed present in the "Super FX 2", but it's not known if Nintendo was planning to bump the speed of the FX 2 up even further for the actual release - it is capable of handling up to something like 32 MHz speeds as is although no released game did that.
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Sep 5, 2017 18:52
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I think it's been shown that the version of the SuperFX chip used doesn't impact the framerate of SF2, only overclocking using a new oscillator does. And 'framerate' isn't even quite the right term here. You don't get more frames of smoother animation, the whole game just runs faster. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgInD9vAZcM I really hope the ROM gets dumped out of the SNES Classic and can get compared to the leaked one, and flashed into EPROMS to test on real hardware.
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Sep 5, 2017 18:55
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Jim Silly-Balls posted:Remember the snes mini probably has enough horsepower to emulate SF2 faster than the original Snes and SuperFX chip could. This may not ever run as fast on original hardware even when the rom is dumped. please name a time Nintendo went for the better experience
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Sep 5, 2017 18:59
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This video released of the beginning parts of the Secret of Mana remake look WAY WAY better than the original trailer shown off a few weeks ago: http://gematsu.com/2017/09/10-minutes-secret-mana-remake-gameplay Also the on-screen map is just the SNES graphics 
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Sep 5, 2017 19:13
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Uncle at Nintendo posted:This video released of the beginning parts of the Secret of Mana remake look WAY WAY better than the original trailer shown off a few weeks ago: The Mantis Ant model looks really good. It does look nicer then the Adventure of Mana remake which I did enjoy and still need to finish on the Vita.
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Sep 5, 2017 19:20
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Uncle at Nintendo posted:This video released of the beginning parts of the Secret of Mana remake look WAY WAY better than the original trailer shown off a few weeks ago: the text box alone is reason enough to play this over the SNES version...
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Sep 5, 2017 20:06
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xamphear posted:I think it's been shown that the version of the SuperFX chip used doesn't impact the framerate of SF2, only overclocking using a new oscillator does. And 'framerate' isn't even quite the right term here. You don't get more frames of smoother animation, the whole game just runs faster. Ok, so your description doesn't hold up. First things first, Star Fox 1 attempted to target a 20 fps render (and usually failed by quite a ways) and Star Fox 2 appears to do that as well. The framerate is noticeably much more choppy and inconsistent when run at the default ~10 MHz clock rate of GSU-1 chips. But when run at the ~21 MHz default clock rate of the GSU-2 chips, which are the same chip but intended to be run at the higher speed by default, the game tends to get close to 20 FPS, usually bouncing between 14 and 15 because the speed isn't quite there. A theoretical increase in the speed would be likely to bring the game to 20 FPS nearly the whole time, which was considered perfectly acceptable at the time for 3D games. Star Fox 2 on the normal GSU-2/Super FX 2 chip is not "just running faster", it's clearly running close to the intended framerate but not quite, while forcing the low clock rate that GSU-1 games used by default is forcing the game to run abnormally slow as it attempts to still push out frames with much less processing capability. At no point in the video do they use actual overclocking , that would only come up if they were attempting to modify an original model Super FX chip from early runs of Star Fox 1, which requires you to get up to those tricks in order to break out of its enforced halved clock rate. The GSU-1 modification to the original Super FX makes the clock speed changeable by a new register embedded in the chip with the default mode being ~10 and the switched mode being ~21 of course. Most games that used a GSU-1 as shipped wouldn't take advantage of this, especially as most had been designed and balanced around running on the plain Super FX design where switching clock rates was impossible
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Sep 5, 2017 23:01
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Metal Geir Skogul posted:Literal was the wrong word. I meant in comparison to the original hardware, a huge step up. The expletive you were looking for is loving.
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Sep 5, 2017 23:04
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But i already used gently caress to yell at Nintendo, so I thought it would be literally repetitive. E: I meant loving repetitive
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Sep 5, 2017 23:42
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rdbbb posted:please name a time Nintendo went for the better experience When they decided to do something with those piles of unsold Radar Scope machines. 
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Sep 6, 2017 00:00
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Metal Geir Skogul posted:But i already used gently caress to yell at Nintendo, so I thought it would be literally repetitive. Remember when your mom or someone would tell you that friggin was a bad word and that you should just use the real word instead? That's how I view the misuse of literally. Just say the loving word. Anyway. I've been playing the Phoenix Wright trilogy on my 3DS. I've been having convulsions because the first four cases all take place in 2016 and the fifth in 2017. Lana Skye is my age and she's the chief prosecutor.
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Sep 6, 2017 00:07
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Speaking of, I'm not seeing any updates on that Genesis starfox port. It did appear to run at similar frame rate without any special helper chips though. BLAST PROCESSING!
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Sep 6, 2017 01:10
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falz posted:Speaking of, I'm not seeing any updates on that Genesis starfox port. It did appear to run at similar frame rate without any special helper chips though. BLAST PROCESSING! Similar frame rate, but was removing a lot of detail from the levels to try to keep within a tighter polygon and fake polygon budget to deal with the Genesis limits. Which to be honest, sometimes Nintendo and Argonaut should have done to help keep actual Star Fox's framerate smoother, but it's a bit late for that now...
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Sep 6, 2017 01:44
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falz posted:Speaking of, I'm not seeing any updates on that Genesis starfox port. It did appear to run at similar frame rate without any special helper chips though. BLAST PROCESSING! The guy who made it moved onto other things like the pseudo-mode-7 tech demos and the Wolfenstein port. He's working on converting Super Noah's Ark 3D to MD for Wisdom Tree at the moment, I think.
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Sep 6, 2017 02:26
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I finally said screw it and just beat Metroid Zero Mission instead of collecting the rest of the energy tanks and missile tanks. I was going through the options and saw that it included the original Metroid too. If I knew that in the past, I definitely forgot. Although it feels a lot more sluggish and the graphics/aspect was off, will stick with the NES.
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Sep 6, 2017 05:10
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FireMrshlBill posted:I finally said screw it and just beat Metroid Zero Mission instead of collecting the rest of the energy tanks and missile tanks. I was going through the options and saw that it included the original Metroid too. If I knew that in the past, I definitely forgot. Although it feels a lot more sluggish and the graphics/aspect was off, will stick with the NES. I was considering just wiping my zero mission save the other day because I have no goddamn idea what to do. That's the problem with those style games, if you leave them too long, most times need to play for long periods of time to get your mojo back on what you were doing.  E: Wow, bad phone posting.
Drowning Rabbit fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Sep 6, 2017 |
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Sep 6, 2017 19:16
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I am playing through that Metroid 2 fan remake and holy gently caress is it good! I wonder how it's gonna compare to the new one in a few weeks. The parrying is neat and is the only thing really missing from this. https://am2r-another-metroid-2-remake.en.uptodown.com/windows
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Sep 6, 2017 19:20
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AM2R is legitimately one of the best Metroid games ever made. I'd still say Super is better but that might just be nostalgia and it's more than a good fight between it and Zero Mission. It doesn't do anything particularly revolutionary or different other games in the franchise do, but it clearly knew exactly what elements do and do not work and is well designed around them. I am sure the 3DS game will be fine/great but Nintendo would be right to want to sweep AM2R under the rug as a point of comparison.
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Sep 6, 2017 19:23
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On the subject, there's also a color patch for the og Metroid II. Haven't tried it yet myself but planning to.
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Sep 6, 2017 20:13
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