|
I was looking at those pictures thinking the Toymaker looked really, really familiar but couldn't put a name to him, so I googled him and it's Michael Gough. 
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 20:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 18:07 |
|
|
I can't believe how much hate the Toymaker has gotten in this thread! A weird relic? A silly Batman character? All of you are going to be sorry when your insults force you to wait in the jungle until your dice roll five or eight. (Besides the complaints about the racism, which I agree with. Remove the word "celestial" IMO and definitely the robes. Also, maybe don't include the recitation of racist nursery rhymes.)
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 21:25
|
|
|
Bicyclops posted:I can't believe how much hate the Toymaker has gotten in this thread! A weird relic? A silly Batman character? All of you are going to be sorry when your insults force you to wait in the jungle until your dice roll five or eight. Just keep all that bad stuff but put him in a revived Torchwood so it's mature, edgy, and adult. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 22:25
|
|
|
And get Nicolas Cage to play him. He was great as Fu Manchu in my favourite B-movie, Werewolf Women of the SS.
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 22:49
|
|
|
Stabbatical posted:Just keep all that bad stuff but put him in a revived Torchwood so it's mature, edgy, and adult. The Toymaker, but uh... with Sex Twister and Strip Monopoloy! And he's in love with Owen, and maybe Owen is in love with him, but Owen is so self-destructive and broody!
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 22:55
|
|
|
just make some other gamesmaster villain if you want a gamesmaster villain, it's clear that this story is not one anyone really wants to remember and just like the very loosest possibly concept of the villain. and even that, in and of itself, isn't that novel a concept.
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 23:04
|
|
|
Wasn't Julian Bleach's character on Sarah Jane Adventures a game master? (I genuinely can't remember.)
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 23:11
|
|
|
Wheat Loaf posted:I was looking at those pictures thinking the Toymaker looked really, really familiar but couldn't put a name to him, so I googled him and it's Michael Gough. At first I was thinking, "Wait, did Leonard Nimoy have a lost twin," and then then the nose and eye structure hit me. drat, he showed up everywhere.
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 23:16
|
|
|
Wheat Loaf posted:Wasn't Julian Bleach's character on Sarah Jane Adventures a game master? (I genuinely can't remember.) He was The Nightmare Man
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 23:21
|
|
|
Enough of trying to rehab the Toymaker. Give me David Mitchell as the Meddling Monk or go to hell.
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 23:26
|
|
|
Oh come on, there's way less you can do with the Meddling Monk than the Toymaker.
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 23:28
|
|
|
Timby posted:At first I was thinking, "Wait, did Leonard Nimoy have a lost twin," and then then the nose and eye structure hit me. drat, he showed up everywhere. I confuse him with Michael Gambon. Not because they look particularly similar, just because their both Michael G.
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 23:30
|
|
|
Bicyclops posted:Oh come on, there's way less you can do with the Meddling Monk than the Toymaker. Have the Monk overstep his boundaries and put the universe in chaos due to an innocent prank! There's a story right there.
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 23:33
|
|
|
all-Rush mixtape posted:Have the Monk overstep his boundaries and put the universe in chaos due to an innocent prank! There's a story right there. That's one of two things he does (the other is trying to break the Doctor's TARDIS, only to find out that the Doctor has broken his instead, thus concluding with an "I'll get youuuuuuuuuu!"). It's a good gimmick and I'd actually like to see it come back every once in awhile, but maybe like... once every two Doctors.
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 23:37
|
|
|
Bicyclops posted:That's one of two things he does (the other is trying to break the Doctor's TARDIS, only to find out that the Doctor has broken his instead, thus concluding with an "I'll get youuuuuuuuuu!"). You say that like he's made any appearances since 1966
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2017 00:07
|
|
|
How about once every two Two Doctors? What I guess I'm saying is the Meddling Monk should be in the Christmas special
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2017 00:37
|
|
|
Wheat Loaf posted:I confuse him with Michael Gambon. Not because they look particularly similar, just because their both Michael G. There's also a very prolific voice actor named Michael Gough.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2017 00:57
|
|
|
misadventurous posted:How about once every two Two Doctors? Oh you thought Bradley is playing the 1st Doctor?
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2017 00:58
|
|
|
cargohills posted:You say that like he's made any appearances since 1966 He's had twice as many appearances at the Toymaker, anyway! It's hard for me to picture the Monk going up against a non-Hartnell Doctor, because I basically just picture the Master, but I get there are differences. The Monk is more plainly motivated by simple greed and his plans have an actual point other than "world domination, sort of, but mostly just sticking it to the Doctor." The polite sparring and impression of begrudging respect between the Monk and Hartnell does feels a little Delgado/Pertwee, though.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2017 01:33
|
|
|
Is "celestial" a racism thing in England? Because I have gone 37 years without once hearing that be used as a slur or stereotype.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2017 01:35
|
|
|
bring back the next doctor
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2017 01:39
|
|
|
Chokes McGee posted:Is "celestial" a racism thing in England? Because I have gone 37 years without once hearing that be used as a slur or stereotype. It's dated now. It's meant to convey a sort of mysticism like "the Far East." It was definitely used in England.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2017 01:41
|
|
|
Bicyclops posted:He's had twice as many appearances at the Toymaker, anyway! The thing about the Monk is that he's a nuisance waiting to become a four alarm fire, and that's with the Time Lords still cleaning up mistakes and policing timelines. I think he needs (and knows he needs) someone to clean up after him, or else things will escalate so far out of control that he won't be able to hit the brakes in time. Also, he royally hosed over Eight, so I doubt the Doctor would have time for his bullshit in the present day. I can't imagine Thirteen's memories of the death of her grandson resulting in anything but kneeing him in the groin and tossing him into a volcano on first sight.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2017 01:48
|
|
|
Bicyclops posted:It's dated now. It's meant to convey a sort of mysticism like "the Far East." It was definitely used in England. Huh. I don't think it was ever used in the US. (Or if it was, it's so long forgotten that no one would bat an eyelash.)
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2017 01:49
|
|
|
Chokes McGee posted:Huh. I don't think it was ever used in the US. (Or if it was, it's so long forgotten that no one would bat an eyelash.) It was used here too, but yes, definitely not commonly in our lifetimes.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2017 01:58
|
|
|
How about bringing back the Master... of the Land of Fiction? Make him responsible for the mummy/monks in the Extremis trilogy and it might even be possible to partially redeem them as characters.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2017 05:01
|
|
|
Narsham posted:How about bringing back the Master... of the Land of Fiction? Make him responsible for the mummy/monks in the Extremis trilogy and it might even be possible to partially redeem them as characters. The Doctor thinks he's up against the Master of the Land of Fiction, but it's actually just a theme park, a la that episode where the Daleks chase him into a haunted house and he thinks its a conglomeration of human fears.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2017 05:05
|
|
|
Forget all these historic villains. Bring back the slitheen. For every. Single. Episode. Of the next season. Fart jokes. More fart jokes. Constant, dizzying endless fart jokes.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2017 07:50
|
|
|
Chokes McGee posted:Is "celestial" a racism thing in England? Because I have gone 37 years without once hearing that be used as a slur or stereotype. It puts the episode of Miraculous where the heroine's Chinese chef uncle makes his signature dish of "celestial soup" in a new light, though.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2017 07:56
|
|
|
Hahahaha! The Dalton Rassilon is so much better costumed and written than Moffats 'old man yells at cloud' version. It's amazing that Moffat managed to poo poo all over the 50th with the Zygon two parter and the wet fart of finding Gallifrey again.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2017 08:47
|
|
|
PriorMarcus posted:Hahahaha! The Dalton Rassilon is so much better costumed and written than Moffats 'old man yells at cloud' version. All he really did was stand on a platform waving a Nintendo Power Glove. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2017 09:06
|
|
|
Both Rassilons are appropriate to their role. Moffat's Rassilon got up that morning and chose to wear those heavy, uncomfortable shoulder pads, and they're weighing him down. He's literally weighed down by his mistakes.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2017 12:15
|
|
|
One memory I have of watching part two of "The End of Time" on New Year's Day 2010 remains "Why is Rassilon a villain now?" because I hadn't listened to most of the Big Finishes with him in them.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2017 12:24
|
|
|
Even as far back as The Five Doctors, the show was hinting heavily that Rassilon wasn't the benevolent founder of Time Lord society that the official records depicted.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2017 12:51
|
|
|
Yeah, he was a dick that killed you because you dared to come looking for his stuff.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2017 12:55
|
|
|
The_Doctor posted:Even as far back as The Five Doctors, the show was hinting heavily that Rassilon wasn't the benevolent founder of Time Lord society that the official records depicted. Sure, though for me that was always undercut by the First Doctor chuckling to himself about how Rassilon was wise enough to realise that immortality was a curse rather than a blessing.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2017 13:34
|
|
|
Hell, in the 4th Doctor stuff where he's referred to like a near-God, we see he was also making horrific weapons of mass destruction (even if the writer's imagination didn't quite live up to the idea). I always liked the idea that the Disintegrator Gun didn't just disintegrate you from space, but time as well, which was why it was so reviled by everybody despite seemingly just being a bog-standard gun. Then Big Finish came up with the Oubliette of Eternity idea which basically takes that concept but turns it into a device/facility as opposed to a gun. Though of course who knows if it even works, since nobody has ever used it....
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2017 13:41
|
|
|
Moffat's Rassilon was great, a tired old man with hints of power and brutality that slip out when he loses his composure. He put me in mind of a corrupt police chief. While I'm at it, Gallifrey was brought back pretty much perfectly.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2017 14:04
|
|
|
I really hope we get a handful of Gallifrey centric stories in 13's run. Do more of the "dealing with time lord bureaucracy" things, less of the "galaxy threatening crisis" things.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2017 14:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 18:07 |
|
|
I say this with all sincerity, and the complete understanding that any individual story might end up being great depending on context/writer.... but I hope we don't see Gallifrey or any other Time Lords beyond The Master for a long time to come. I always find they work much better as a concept/idea than when they actually appear, outside of a few outliers. That said, I still think their initial appearance in the show way back in The War Games is magnificent.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2017 14:32
|
|