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Confused Llama posted:Hmph. I feel like I'm being rebutted. Still think it was wrong to ask this of Yasu. Plus, then he self-satisfiedly goes and dies before the full depths of his iniquity have even been revealed to his child/grandchild. A Coward to the end, as resurgam would say. A thing to consider: Does Yasu in any sense benefit from being told about the incest part? Does knowing the full death of Kinzo's crimes benefit this kid, as opposed to simply believing that they are the child of a mistress?
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Sep 6, 2017 21:20
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Rodyle posted:A thing to consider: That's a fair question. I was more thinking about it from the perspective that if Yasu doesn't even know everything that Kinzo is begging forgiveness for, then that forgiveness when given is plainly worthless, making it even more offensive to me that he would bother to demand it in the first place when he clearly isn't doing so in good faith, if you see what I mean. If he's deliberately withholding information that might make an offer of forgiveness less likely to be forthcoming, then it makes it painfully clear that he's looking for absolution just to make himself feel better rather than to actually make reparations for his sins. But as MonsterEnvy pointed out, Kinzo may not have been in sufficient possession of his faculties at the time to realize that Yasu didn't know the full story, so that's maybe not a fair accusation to make.
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Sep 6, 2017 21:43
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Sometimes being told 100% the truth isn't the best, to be honest. I think It's great that Sayo wasn't told.
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Sep 6, 2017 22:02
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Confused Llama posted:That's a fair question. I was more thinking about it from the perspective that if Yasu doesn't even know everything that Kinzo is begging forgiveness for, then that forgiveness when given is plainly worthless, making it even more offensive to me that he would bother to demand it in the first place when he clearly isn't doing so in good faith, if you see what I mean. If he's deliberately withholding information that might make an offer of forgiveness less likely to be forthcoming, then it makes it painfully clear that he's looking for absolution just to make himself feel better rather than to actually make reparations for his sins. But as MonsterEnvy pointed out, Kinzo may not have been in sufficient possession of his faculties at the time to realize that Yasu didn't know the full story, so that's maybe not a fair accusation to make.
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Sep 6, 2017 22:47
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Rodyle posted:It's not really Yasu to whom Kinzo was speaking or whom Kinzo sought the forgiveness of. Um... yes. I'm well aware of that. It is, in fact, the premise that I started from.
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Sep 6, 2017 23:14
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Ashes to ashes, (a) jerk to jerky. Ol' dead Pops Ushiromiya is just going to be hanging around the mansion for a whole year, somehow in good enough condition for his body to be found in the wreckage later. Maybe Genji or Kumasawa occasionally spritz some febreeze on him to keep things fresh.Graylien posted:So, was Yasu actually told that her mother was her sister? All they say is 'you are Kinzo and Beatrice's child' no mention of the fact that the Beatrice they're talking about is also Kinzo's child, or the imprisonment and rape she was put through. And that is hosed up. The second Beatrice doesn't even get the justice of an identity of her own. This is quite the thought to consider, but geez poor Beatrice II. No one knew about her life, nor really cared directly about her (Kinzo obviously doesn't count. He considered her a shell to OG Beatrice), except for Rosa. Yet even then it was only for a short time, led to her death, and Rosa regretting ever having met her. Dying without a trace upon the world just seems so bleak.  I'm ready to see how this story concludes. How things could ever recover from such a tragedy, or if they even can. Everyone on this island has been through hell. I just want to see them escape from it.
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Sep 7, 2017 00:31
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Tired Moritz posted:Yasu barely acts like she give a poo poo. She's taking this whole "actually the secret heir" really well. Yasu has been living in fantasies their whole life. This is just another one. Perhaps they might be a little surprised by things, but overall why would this be that much different than all the other stories? free Trapt CD posted:I forget: are we watching this with the 'theatre-going power'? Is this objectively true? I almost hope this is all an embellishment by Yasu, just so we can find out later that Kinzo met a more appropriate, possibly grisly end... I think what we're watching is emotionally true. We still see the delusional stuff like the witches and demons, but that's because it's Yasu's point of view and Yasu is hosed up. I'm sure from the perspective of the narrative, all the stuff we just saw with Kinzo is what actually happened. And it fits in too well with everything else to be totally off.
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Sep 7, 2017 00:35
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I can't help but feel the tiniest bit of pity for Kinzo. The dude built his hell with his own hands, all the power and money in the world but the one thing he wants is Biche back. His actions are unforgivable but at least it was out of madness and sorrow, not malice.
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Sep 7, 2017 00:42
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 07151129 !!!
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Sep 7, 2017 01:30
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witchcore ricepunk posted:
Nice catch!  So 11/29 is this day in particular, but what did the other numbers refer to? Wasn't it Battler's birthday?
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Sep 7, 2017 02:08
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It was.
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Sep 7, 2017 02:10
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EagerSleeper posted:Nice catch! I'm pretty sure it is. I recall Battler pointed it out in one of the episodes, 2 or 3 maybe?
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Sep 7, 2017 02:10
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When the numbers first came up in EP3 Battler pointed out that July 15th is his birthday yes.
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Sep 7, 2017 02:22
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I've been really busy the past few days (and will remain so for a week and some) so haven't had the time to comment, but apparently I was wrong on the date that it was. Probably could have figured it out had I had the chance, but... Suffice it to say that this is one of the things I considered possible in my guess, along with Yasu killing Kinzo in self defence. Glad that Kinzo wasn't such an extreme rear end in a top hat to make the latter happen. This is a very sedate end to chapter 7, so maybe it'll be a long tea party like episode 5.
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Sep 7, 2017 02:50
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PetraCore posted:So this is a deconstruction of the orphan's ordeal trope where a fairytale orphan goes through many trials only to discover that their true parent(s) was alive all along, is powerful and wealthy, and has been watching out for them, right? Because the kind of backstory needed to make that a thing is really hosed up and also wealth doesn't actually heal the damage caused by abuse. As Kinzo is a dead example of. YEP. That's exactly right. From a literary standpoint, it's one of the things I really adore about Umineko (and one I can't actually talk about without spoilering a whole lot of poo poo.) Most of the other things are stuff I can't talk about yet either, but I really believe Umineko is one of the great post-modernist works of the last decade.
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Sep 7, 2017 03:04
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I would've liked to see the globetrotting adventures of Little Orphan Yasu and Daddy Goldbucks.
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Sep 7, 2017 03:08
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Doc Hawkins posted:I would've liked to see the globetrotting adventures of Little Orphan Yasu and Daddy Goldbucks. In a much happier alternate world, sure, but imagining as is... 
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Sep 7, 2017 03:40
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bii posted:YEP. That's exactly right. From a literary standpoint, it's one of the things I really adore about Umineko (and one I can't actually talk about without spoilering a whole lot of poo poo.) Most of the other things are stuff I can't talk about yet either, but I really believe Umineko is one of the great post-modernist works of the last decade. Shame that the anime aesthetic and visual novel format will make a lot of people instantly dismiss it when they'd otherwise adore it. Kinda like people's kneejerk reactions to Homestuck when there's a lot of things Homestuck really unambigiously did well and in a novel, boundary-pushing format, imo.
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Sep 7, 2017 06:51
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EagerSleeper posted:In a much happier alternate world, sure, but imagining as is... Sometimes it's just better to let sleeping seacats lie...
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Sep 7, 2017 08:52
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EagerSleeper posted:Nice catch! So it's both of their birthdays. Without the context it's sweet, with though, not so much.
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Sep 7, 2017 09:55
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07151129 = Batorice 4evaPetraCore posted:Shame that the anime aesthetic and visual novel format will make a lot of people instantly dismiss it when they'd otherwise adore it. Kinda like people's kneejerk reactions to Homestuck when there's a lot of things Homestuck really unambigiously did well and in a novel, boundary-pushing format, imo. Honestly I think the sort of grody character designs for the femme characters would turn off a lot of my friends who would otherwise love this. I've been pretty ehhh about that this whole time too. witchcore ricepunk fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Sep 7, 2017 |
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Sep 7, 2017 14:59
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Yeah, those character designs... but if this were made into a straight up novel, I know I'd be recommending it to people. Well, maybe I shouldn't say that before the end... But nice catch, witchcore, I'd forgotten about the PIN entirely be this point. Tired Moritz posted:Sometimes being told 100% the truth isn't the best, to be honest. I think It's great that Sayo wasn't told. You're right...Yasu should never have found out, not only because she would be happier, but because the negative actions of a parent really shouldn't impact ther life of their children in any way- in an ideal world, the sins of the father would stay with the father. But this is no ideal world... and Yasu does eventually find out. And the sad part is, no one has to tell them at all; all the evidence to put things together is already there at their fingertips. All s/he has to do is ask questions: s/he might narrow things down by asking the kindly ferryman if he recalls taking anyone else besides the family and servants to the island. S/he might ask Kumasawa to tell her the romantic story of how Kinzo and Bice met to understand the age discrepancy and question it, and she might ask Nanjo if s/he had any siblings. What they tell them- and what they hesitate to tell them- reveals the terrible truth, even as they'd like it hidden. Genji worked so hard to create the perfect fairy tale to bring Yasu back into the family, but that narrative is not perfect; it has holes... and we already know that if there is a hole in a narrative, a mystery to be solved, Yasu will not leave it alone. And Yasu has a preternaturally good ability to make connections; thinking about things might be a battle for Battler, but for Yasu, it's more of an effort to stop. vvv "For Battler, thinking was a battle." That is a direct quote, the thread even called attention to it to snicker. And I'm not bringing it up to call Battler stupid (this time, anyway  ), so much as I'm drawing attention to Yasu's ability to follow patterns... which might be seen as "smart", but might also be seen as "paranoid" as well.
resurgam40 fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Sep 7, 2017 |
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Sep 7, 2017 17:01
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Battler was in deep denial, which is foolish in its own way but hardly means he's stupid.
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Sep 7, 2017 17:06
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witchcore ricepunk posted:07151129 = Batorice 4eva I love the story but when I first saw Gaap's outfit I wanted to quit reading, haha.
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Sep 7, 2017 17:39
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Mercury Hat posted:I love the story but when I first saw Gaap's outfit I wanted to quit reading, haha. Same but the bunny girls.
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Sep 7, 2017 17:41
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I hope you guys realize by now that in-universe Yasu is the character designer for all of them Yasu has a fetish for leotards
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Sep 7, 2017 17:43
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witchcore ricepunk posted:07151129 = Batorice 4eva What does Eva have to do with them? quote:Honestly I think the sort of grody character designs for the femme characters would turn off a lot of my friends who would otherwise love this. I've been pretty ehhh about that this whole time too. I think when Umineko first got popular enough for it to spawn memes on 4chan (wow, I'm really dating myself here. Please forgive me for being on 4chan), it was in that strange period of the Internet where Japanese media having young, underage characters wearing gross/pandering outfits was expected. At best, it was seen as a meme, as in "lol Japan," but most of the time it was something that you kinda had to grit your teeth and ignore because those sort of explicit designs were everywhere, leaving you with very little choices if you wanted to avoid it. The designs were grody, but people kept talking about how good the story was so I had hoped that Umineko would at least provide something different than the usual cookie cutter anime. I was very happy to see in Shiny's lp and this one that it did. By a lot. 
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Sep 7, 2017 18:27
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EagerSleeper posted:I think when Umineko first got popular enough for it to spawn memes on 4chan (wow, I'm really dating myself here. Please forgive me for being on 4chan), it was in that strange period of the Internet where Japanese media having young, underage characters wearing gross/pandering outfits was expected. At best, it was seen as a meme, as in "lol Japan," but most of the time it was something that you kinda had to grit your teeth and ignore because those sort of explicit designs were everywhere, leaving you with very little choices if you wanted to avoid it. I'm not sure that period ever really ended. Kill La Kill just came out in 2014, for instance. I guess there are more alternatives now? I've complained about the costumes a few times, too; I do think it's a price you have to pay to get into the story. Anyone who's already familiar with anime is likely to roll their eyes at them rather than stop reading entirely, but it is going to be a barrier to exposing people to the story who don't have that reaction.
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Sep 7, 2017 18:36
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EagerSleeper posted:I think when Umineko first got popular enough for it to spawn memes on 4chan (wow, I'm really dating myself here. Please forgive me for being on 4chan), it was in that strange period of the Internet where Japanese media having young, underage characters wearing gross/pandering outfits was expected. Pretty sure that "strange period" has been ongoing since way before the Internet Well that's an exaggeration but since 80's or 90's at least
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Sep 7, 2017 19:12
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tiistai posted:I hope you guys realize by now that in-universe Yasu is the character designer for all of them It's amusing to think about Yasu being kind of a perv but that isn't really a good justification for R07 creating the gratuitous and "grody" costumes. If Umineko existed in a vacuum then maybe it would be okay. But as is the designs drag the entire work down.
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Sep 7, 2017 20:08
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Reading manga and poo poo has made me more likely to drop something with those types of designs. I'm glad I stuck with this, but in general, my tolerance for gross pandering is low.
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Sep 7, 2017 20:20
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The pantless bunny girls are very important thematically MOM
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Sep 7, 2017 20:30
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Huh. The only outfit that seems particularly outré to me is Gaap's. The rest are just leotards with stuff on 'em, and I've worn plenty of those in my life (would have been more if I hadn't quit ballet in middle school). Edit: Not that I don't get why people might be uncomfortable with the outfits, they just don't particularly bother me. I'm way more disturbed by Battler's obsession with his cousin's boobs. Confused Llama fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Sep 7, 2017 |
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Sep 7, 2017 20:33
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The solution seems to be a pants DLC. But also wow, I both love and hate that Shannon's ridiculous boobs are legitimate clues.
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Sep 7, 2017 20:52
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Battler's awful titty grab scene in Episode 1 almost solved half of the mystery.
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Sep 7, 2017 21:27
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And they say he's incompetent.
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Sep 7, 2017 21:42
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DentD posted:It's amusing to think about Yasu being kind of a perv but that isn't really a good justification for R07 creating the gratuitous and "grody" costumes. If Umineko existed in a vacuum then maybe it would be okay. But as is the designs drag the entire work down. Oh, I didn't mean that as a justification, but I will admit that an outfit has to be quite a bit worse than a leotard for me to call it grody or repulsive; disgusting; nauseating.
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Sep 7, 2017 21:42
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Can I just say that I'm really happy that I got all of you to say "grody"? ahaha.wav
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Sep 7, 2017 22:09
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witchcore ricepunk posted:Can I just say that I'm really happy that I got all of you to say "grody"? ahaha.wav Grotacious. 
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Sep 7, 2017 22:19
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Is it bad to say that for all the outfits in this game, it's still Shannon's thigh window that weirds me out the most?
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Sep 7, 2017 22:31
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