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ZiegeDame posted:Is it bad to say that for all the outfits in this game, it's still Shannon's thigh window that weirds me out the most? At least the stakes and rabbits and the like have the excuse of being imaginary. Shannon's just how the servants are meant to dress...
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Sep 7, 2017 22:49
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ZiegeDame posted:Is it bad to say that for all the outfits in this game, it's still Shannon's thigh window that weirds me out the most? Nah, if only because I'm maybe even less sure of the real-life logistics for that skirt than I am for Gaap's dress. Maybe a hell of a lot of tulle and/or horsehair? Graylien posted:At least the stakes and rabbits and the like have the excuse of being imaginary. Shannon's just how the servants are meant to dress... I'm actually not super sure of that. I'm beginning to wonder how much of Shannon's, Kanon's and Beatrice's appearances are literally true and how much what we see is being augmented by the way Yasu visualizes them.
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Sep 7, 2017 22:53
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Confused Llama posted:Nah, if only because I'm maybe even less sure of the real-life logistics for that skirt than I am for Gaap's dress. Maybe a hell of a lot of tulle and/or horsehair? To me it's a hoop skirt or crinoline frame, then they put 3/4 of the knee-length portion of the dress over it, leaving the gap to show her tattoo, and put a shorter length of said skirt above it to keep her decent when she pulls her apron up. given the flexibility of said frames, it really wouldn't get in the way of work and still keep that bell-shape line. Robindaybird fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Sep 7, 2017 |
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Sep 7, 2017 23:02
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Robindaybird posted:To me it's a hoop skirt or crinoline frame, then they put 3/4 of the knee-length portion of the dress over it, leaving the gap to show her tattoo, and put a shorter length of said skirt above it to keep her decent when she pulls her apron up. Maaaaaybe, although I feel like you'd get one of the hoops cutting right through the gap in that case; the lowest one would be covered by the belt that goes across the gap, but I feel like the hoops are usually too close together for the rest of them to be fully covered by the shorter length of skirt. You could do a more widely spaced frame, but then I feel like the fabric would drape weirdly, especially with a skirt that short.
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Sep 7, 2017 23:14
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Confused Llama posted:Maaaaaybe, although I feel like you'd get one of the hoops cutting right through the gap in that case; the lowest one would be covered by the belt that goes across the gap, but I feel like the hoops are usually too close together for the rest of them to be fully covered by the shorter length of skirt. You could do a more widely spaced frame, but then I feel like the fabric would drape weirdly, especially with a skirt that short. saw a few crinoline skirt frames with a built-in gap that would fall about where her thigh gap is about that length.
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Sep 7, 2017 23:17
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The extreme underscoring of feminine traits by the Metaverse characters reflects the perception of them via Yasu's own situation and their own complexes. Also R07 loves them thighs.
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Sep 7, 2017 23:18
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ProfessorProf posted:Battler's awful titty grab scene in Episode 1 almost solved half of the mystery. This will never not be one of my favorite parts of Umineko.
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Sep 8, 2017 00:26
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tiistai posted:I hope you guys realize by now that in-universe Yasu is the character designer for all of them Let's be real, Yasu is very very bisexual and also very restricted in where she can normally express an appreciation for women.
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Sep 8, 2017 00:33
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PetraCore posted:Let's be real, Yasu is very very bisexual and also very restricted in where she can normally express an appreciation for women. Like okay, I know that part of the actual reason is that Ryukishi07 was teasing a friend of his who had promised to cosplay the female characters. Presumably it's the kind of joke that she in specific finds amusing, but it's not particularly amusing to me, who doesn't know her and thus lacks that context. Then you get stuff like Eva's mom jeans under her dress.
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Sep 8, 2017 00:36
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The best part about Umineko cosplay is Gaap, and that some people go whole hog on the dress gap, some people use fleshtone fabric on the dress itself, or wear spandex underneath it... but absolutely nobody wears the hot pink platform shoes, because you have to draw a line in the sand and those things are hideous crimes against fashion and nature.
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Sep 8, 2017 06:11
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PetraCore posted:Like okay, I know that part of the actual reason is that Ryukishi07 was teasing a friend of his who had promised to cosplay the female characters. Presumably it's the kind of joke that she in specific finds amusing, but it's not particularly amusing to me, who doesn't know her and thus lacks that context. You are living up to your avatar by replying to yourself. Oh yeah, I had forgotten that R07 was trolling a friend with the designs.
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Sep 8, 2017 06:47
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  "Oh, is that all? But aren't the next two years pretty fun...?" "We don't need them. After all we've heard in the past games about your inner conflict and how you suffered, you don't need to say any more." "...You mean... the conflict of the furniture with incomplete souls?" "There was a duel. The result had almost been decided. However, the year 1986... was incredibly merciless." "...I'll bet you cursed your fate." "Yes. If it had been one year sooner. Or else, one year later." "The duel would've been settled, though the way it got settled would've been different."Silently, Clair hung her head. If only I had been given time... Or else, if I hadn't been given time to worry...   "I decided... to abandon everything." "...Abandon..." "Like the ceremony in which I inherited everything from the previous Head, I decided to abandon myself to the fate known as a miracle."It may be more accurate to say that I abandoned myself to the choice of the roulette. I... we... could not even decide our own fate, so we let fate decide everything for us. Perhaps one of us will find what they seek. Or, perhaps all will be joined and released. Or, perhaps someone will put a stop to this folly.  "...No matter which fate the roulette chose, I planned to obey its ruling. I will not resist fate. After all, whenever I have tried in the past, fate has always been heartless to me..."Clair hung her head and let a single tear drop down...  BGM: The End of the World So, out of her limited fate, she tried to create the infinite. By entrusting her fate to God, she tried to create the infinite. However, this did not mean that she was resigned to her fate. She spun the roulette of fate with an unshakable and certain will. A certain fate, where absolutely no one could escape if the epitaph was not solved. And all of it sealed up on the island. Clair as well. October 4th and 5th, 1986, were sealed away by an absolute and certain will, and she abandoned herself to that short span of time and the many fates that could be chosen on that island.  "Yeah. There's no need to say any more." "...After watching how I have wandered through a dead-end of fate, Lion, do you see how great a dream you are to me?" "...I'm... a different possible 'you'." "The happiness you live in makes me jealous, but even more overwhelmed... with happiness. The future you represent is a possible one. Right now, that fact is my salvation." "...I..." "...Live with enough happiness for the both of us. I'm glad I got to meet you once... at the end. You have my thanks, Lady Bernkastel." "...I'm just carrying out your funeral. There's no need to thank me. Well, it's about time to end this. It's about time to send the dead to the land of the dead." "...Yes. This is my funeral, after all. It's time for me to go back to where I belong." "..." "Don't make that face. And please, rejoice that you are not me. After all, I rejoice in that fact as well." "...I'll live. I'll live life for the both of us..." "Thank you. Live in happiness. And someday, find yourself a wonderful person. I pray that you live as a human, without awakening as a witch. That you have a whole and single soul... and love one person with all your strength... I hope you live your life like that." "...Okay..." "Will-san. I thank you for being an observer. You aren't the one I truly wanted to understand me, but you have saved my heart." "I... understand you. I don't neglect the heart." "...Are you sure?" "Yes. For me, the important thing is whether the person understands me, not how well I know them."...The one I wanted to understand didn't. A person I don't know did understand. There's nothing sad about it. On the contrary, I'm grateful for this miracle. A person was able to understand, even though he has no relation to me. "You are a good observer... and the only one who has managed to understand me. That connection is strong enough." "...Understood."  Video: The Curtain FallsBGM: Goddess Gardena "..." "...Lion. Get back." "Huh? What's going to happen...?" "In the mystery genre, there can be no death unless the detective performs the last rites." "...Will just stopping your heart be enough...?" "When you mourn the dearly departed, do you put just their heart into the coffin?" "...Got it. That which was born from earth will return to earth. I'll return all of you to the earth." "Earth to earth. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Illusions to illusions. And dreams to dreams." "...Right." "...Then let us begin. This is my... burial." "Whenever you're ready." "Let us start. This is almost like the end of my last game."Light gathered at Will's back, and a sword materialized there. Slowly, he drew it out.  BGM: Golden Nocturne "...I'll cut the truth out from the fiction. Come."Following Will's lead, a similar sword appeared in Clair's hand. Its tip glinted silver, the opposite of Will's.   Will's pitch-black slash cut across Clair's body at an angle. The blade passed through her like she was water, but its tip sent golden flower petals scattering.   The razor-thin black blur sent golden flower petals scattering again...   "Illusions to illusions. Let the man of illusions go to where he belongs." "First game, fifth twilight. The last moments of the sacrificed boy with a stake in his chest." "Illusions to illusions. The witch and stake of illusions can pierce naught but illusions." "First game, sixth, seventh, and eighth twilights. Three corpses lying in the closed room of the singing girl." "Illusions to illusions. Illusions are the blind girl's song. Illusion of a closed room." "...Well done. Yes, it seems you really are splendid." "...That was a risky game from the very start. What if the guy really wanted to see that dead face and just stepped inside?" "That's what it means to abandon one's self to fate." "...And that's the roulette you were talking about." "Illusions to illusions. The gold truth locks the lock of illusions." "Second game, second twilight. The corpses of the two who are close are not close." "Illusions to illusions. Illusions who have fulfilled their role do not leave a corpse." "Second game, fourth, fifth, and sixth twilights. In Natsuhi's closed room, none are left alive." "Earth to earth. No one would dispute that a coffin is a closed room." "Second game, seventh and eighth twilights. The two sliced to death by the red-eyed phantom." Every time the blade passed through Clair's body, golden flower petals flew everywhere. The petals covering her heart were being torn away, bit by bit. The Illusion of the Witch was breaking down... and becoming flower petals. "Third game, first twilight. Six corpses connected by the linked closed rooms." "Illusions to illusions. In a closed room ring, the end and the beginning overlap." "Third game, second twilight. The corpses of mother and child lay together in the rose garden." "Earth to earth. No falsehoods in their final moments as told." "Third game, fourth, fifth, and sixth twilights. Three corpses lying in the mansion." "Earth to earth. No falsehoods in their final moments as told." "Third game, seventh and eighth twilights. The corpses of husband and wife lay exposed under the arbor." "Earth to earth. The obvious culprit wields a mutable blade." "Fourth game, first twilight. A massacring storm sweeps through the dining hall." "Illusions to illusions. Tales woven by the gold truth return to illusions." "Fourth game, second twilight. The two young ones face their trials and pass away together." "Illusions to illusions. Tales woven by the gold truth return to illusions." "Fourth game, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, and eighth twilights. None of the runaways are left alive." "Earth to earth. Illusions to illusions. Silent corpses, adorned by fiction." "Fourth game, ninth twilight. And none shall be left alive." "Earth to earth. Illusions to illusions. When fiction is shut up inside a cat box, it becomes truth." BGM: Goddess Gardena As proof, the chapel was now filled with golden flower petals, which danced around like gold snow.  "Who wouldn't want their last moments to be like that?"The gold snow was like confetti at the finale of a show. The curtains were finally falling on the stage that was her. "...Then, one final question." "...Sure."Clair slowly raised her hands. The sword she held became golden rose petals and melted away. She stood there, arms wide, waiting for the final strike...   The pitch-black blade that Will swung high... cut down Clair's form. At the same time, she was blown away by a gust of wind. Her human form crumbled in an instant, became a storm of golden flower petals, and was torn apart. After she was blown away, a golden heart remained in midair, but it too was swallowed by the torrent of wind and broke down into flower petals. The gold torrent of wind swirled around the chapel... Then, the swirl of petals scattered out of existence... and vanished... A few remaining petals danced around like snowflakes, and those final vestiges decorated the chapel beautifully.  There stood Clair, whose tale had ended. Then, slowly, softly, she faced the audience and bowed.  The long, long tale she had just finished telling was being given a massive applause. It went on and on. And on and on. The stage slowly sunk into the darkness of oblivion.  ...People are born with sin... and live life to obtain forgiveness from someone. Or perhaps they are born with riddles... and live life searching for someone to solve them. Here, all of her riddles had been solved, with no lingering regrets. People are riddles. They want someone else to solve their riddle. They live life wanting someone to solve the riddle that they are, the most difficult riddle in the world. They want someone to look at the riddle they are. And they want that person to solve it. For her, that wish has been granted... ...Her soul will wander no longer. Sleep in endless peace, in your cat box coffin...  BGM: Thanks For All People Everything had become dust, vanished as though there had been nothing there in the first place, and all was silent once more. Come to think of it, even the sound of rain is gone. The rain must have stopped at some point.   "...Meeting you was her salvation." "I... hope so." "She cursed herself and her inescapable, dead-end fate... and gave up. Meeting you, a happy miracle in her eyes, saved her in a way nothing else could. So don't make that face." "...Heh." "That was a pretty tasteful ending... for you." "...Auau only told me to carry out the funeral. Well, I just called a facilitator, you, and let you do everything." "Thank you, Will." "...Nn." "In Clair's place, I want to thank you. Thanks for cutting off all the lingering regrets... for a 'me' of a different fate." "...I thought I'd see a bit more head clutching and blind confusion from you." "I understand now. I realize how happy my life has been. If fate had toyed with me... and if I was living in another world, I might have gotten stuck in the same dead-end of fate. However, thanks to an extremely improbable bit of good luck, I live in this world. I now know how much that means... how much it's worth." "..." "...What's up? Why the significant look?" "I thought decent witches didn't exist, but I might have to change that theory." "Don't worry, no need to change it. I only joined that kid's game to kill some time. And, though I lost, I enjoyed playing. That kid died without folding up her game board. I just took charge of cleaning up... as thanks to her for letting me play and because it's the loser's duty." "...I was sure you'd be a lot crueler than this." "Crueler?" "I thought this'd be a cruel game that neglects the heart." "..." "This tale of intertwined loves ends thanks to an absolute and certain willpower. Out of respect for that certain willpower, the Witch of Certainty made that kid a witch for just two days." "...Even within this limited span of two days, I've been able to enjoy an endless kaleidoscope. I won't be bestowing my favor, so no miracle will occur. However, even that ending is something that child wished for." "...In the end, what was the truth behind the endless tales?" "Who knows? We can't say for sure... That's what makes it a cat box." "When you open the box, you get a tale where no trace of the mansion remains, and no one except Eva survives. Now that Eva has died without saying anything, all the truth is inside the cat box. Endless possibilities, all kept within a limited box." "...Now that I think about it, maybe the whole island where she lived and died was the Golden Land." "If you can call a cat box a Golden Land, that is. By the way, Battler has written up the most fun tale imaginable of the inside of the cat box." "That's right. It's the happiest possible tale for her, which he thought up himself." "It was a really fun, love-filled, happy tale. I also think... that tale was the most fitting one to put in her coffin." "No, that's wrong." "...Huh?" "...You heard Clair. You are her hope and her salvation. More than anything else, you living on in happiness will be her salvation." "...Right." "...Live happily. That's all you need to do to be that kid's miracle." "Yes. I'll live happily enough for the both of us." "...I'm surprised you found this kid. Didn't you have to search through about... 200,000 of them in that vast sea?" "Such trivialities are all I am capable of." "...Hmph." "And now, the funeral is over. As promised, I've released the barrier. Once you leave, time will start moving again like normal." "So, you're done with us now. If I don't get back quickly, Diana'll start scratching the curtains." "...We weren't together long, but thank you for your help." "So long. Be happy... for the sake of the hundreds of thousands of other 'you's."When he left the chapel, a beautiful after-rain sky stretched out above him. That sky, which was a mix of rain clouds, gaps of sunlight, and the tint of twilight, had a beauty to it that couldn't be described in words. Will slowly descended the stone stairs, stepping in the puddles. Then, he waved without looking back... and left the chapel behind. His form and footprints gradually faded away... until there was no trace left.  "I have you to thank as well. I believe I said some fairly inconsiderate things to you. You have my apologies. You taught me something very important." "..." "...What is it?" "No, it's nothing. It's been a century since anyone's thanked me, so I wasn't sure how to respond."Bernkastel shrugged, then floated up into the air. Then, she looked up at the beautiful seven colors of light shining in through the stained glass... and spoke as though someone was looking down on her from there.  "I'm mean, so I won't give any more hints than this. There are no witches who don't think. After all, witches who don't think either die or turn to seaweed." "...Yes, now you can look back and have a drink, while seeing how much of your theory was right. I'm tired of playing the part of the bad guy... and of being a miko. You're done with me now. Bye, Lion. And bye to you too, observer witches."Bernkastel burst and disappeared. A single golden flower petal glittered. Lion picked it up. It was the only trace of a miracle that remained in this chapel... At that time, cheery voices could suddenly be heard. It was the relatives. They came out of the waiting room, one by one.  "Mom. My apologies. I was just thinking about something." "Looks like the rain's finally stopped! Finally some good weather!" "Everyone, let us return to the mansion. I have been told that Beatrice's funeral is over." "Dad, where's the Head?" "He'll be here in a sec. Today was pretty crazy. Playing along with Dad's little funeral show was a real pain." "You shouldn't say that. It was a very important ceremony." "That's right. I think it was very important for Father." "I'm starving. Gohda-san, think you could cook something up for us?" "Yes ma'am! I'll prepare some tea at once." "...Where is Lion...?! Lend me a hand." "Our family head...! There you are."As Kinzo came out after the others, Lion ran up to him.  "Yes. And I'm sure that Beatrice's soul was saved." "...How could you know that?" "I was with Beatrice until a second ago. And I saw her leave on her journey with no regrets. That's how I know." "..." "...I guarantee it." "I see. If you say it, then it must be so."The relatives left the chapel one by one. Lion left too, giving Kinzo a shoulder to lean on.  
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Sep 8, 2017 13:26
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quote:The long, long tale she had just finished telling was being given a massive applause. It went on and on. And on and on. The stage slowly sunk into the darkness of oblivion. This is us, isn't it? Listening to her long, long story, long after she finished telling it. As long as there are people who read Umineko no Naku Koro ni, as long as there are people who understand her, the massive applause will never end. Rest in peace in your cat box, our most beloved witch.
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Sep 8, 2017 15:26
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ProfessorProf posted:
"Hello again! This is Ryukishi07, the author of Umineko. I'm not going to explain any more, so the cryptic things they said during that funeral scene will hopefully be enough for you to decide whether you solved the mysteries properly. Have a good day!" (I think we did.) ProfessorProf posted:The relatives left the chapel one by one. Lion left too, giving Kinzo a shoulder to lean on. Huh. A happy ending. (Sort of.) Any bets on whether we get an ahahaha.wav in the tea party or the ???? scene? Regardless, I guess we'll be starting the last episode pretty shortly. Given the finality of this ending in terms of the Beatrice Mysteries, I wonder what it will be like? Will we actually get the real version of events? The way the author keeps talking about how unimportant that is, I wonder. Or maybe it will be like what we just got from Will, where we're given a bunch of hints about what really happened and have to take the last few steps ourselves.
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Sep 8, 2017 15:54
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Sounded to me like we'll be getting that "the most fun tale imaginable of the inside of the cat box" that was put into Beatrice's coffin by Battler for episode 8 so there's both a good ending to the meta world and also to the 'real' one.
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Sep 8, 2017 16:12
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Zakrelo posted:Sounded to me like we'll be getting that "the most fun tale imaginable of the inside of the cat box" that was put into Beatrice's coffin by Battler for episode 8 so there's both a good ending to the meta world and also to the 'real' one. I've been expecting that to be the final episode for a while now. (That's essentially what the final episode of Higurashi was.) But... Certainly indicates there's nothing Yasu can do to stop the explosion that kills everyone, but no indication that whether they set it up or not. So Episode 4 was just 100% bullshit? Kinda feels like a copout for a mystery. Episode 3 Eva did it.  Episode 2: So does that mean Nanjo and Kumasawa were just faking their deaths? I can't really make sense of Ghoda's behavior in light of that. Also, headbutting a pointed paperweight is a pretty painful way to kill yourself, drat. Episode 1: Most of my reasoning was still spot on. I just failed to account for the fact that Yasu wanted to get caught in more than just the infamous titty-grabbing scene.
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Sep 8, 2017 16:31
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I think there's one pretty interesting thing that hasn't been addressed, at least. ...namely, I have a pet theory that Ange was poisoned by her parents to make her too sick to attend the conference. Rudolf and Kyrie are pretty unrelated to everything that went on with Yasu, so they probably had no idea how everything was going to go down. So why didn't they want Ange around this time in specific, when they brought her to other conferences when she was even younger and more vulnerable?
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Sep 8, 2017 16:31
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... No. I don't buy it again. Our Berne is acting way too nice here, and we already know that the end of these stories never comes until the credits roll... and then a last saucy twist. So I will not be lulled into your false sense of securities, no sir. Uh-uh. Even Battler learns after a while. This end is melancholic, and carries overtones of the sublime, but it's not nearly bloody enough to satisfy either witch. Of this I am convinced, and if any of you cacklers attempts to put me off guard, my conviction will only grow. And yet... it was a beautiful ending to Beato's story. So Lion, in the end, is the happiest version of Yasu there could be... and that Lion is here at all means that it is possible for even Yasu to be happy. I'm glad that they got to see each other, even in this weird dreamlike future (and twice glad that the ideal Beatrice is WCRP's av, now!  ). And even if it does mean I have to stomach the Coward getting a small measure of peace he doesn't at all deserve, well... it's a bitter pill but I can manage to choke it down.Re the mysteries: That's all we get, huh? A bunch of weird, cryptic bullshit that could mean any drat thing?  Gah, I know R07 said he wouldn't play around, but I guess I was hoping for at least a little bit of closure or vindication on the weird crap that went down on this island... All riiiight, after work I'll go through all my stuff and compare it with Will's weird heaven-speak ans see if I can't make sense of things.
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Sep 8, 2017 16:33
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You know, as much as I wish "our" Beatrice could get a happy ending of her own, rather than having to be satisfied with the knowledge that there's at least one Fragment in which Lion exists, I'm not sure that I would find any such happy ending that could be offered to be realistic enough to be satisfying. I guess I'll just have to wait and see where Episode 8 goes. And I still want to know what the hell is so important about Battler's parentage, goddammit.
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Sep 8, 2017 16:45
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Witchcore ricepunk's new avatar is lovely! WCRP, since you solved the epitaph, that must mean you're already a witch.  Looking at the new update, I'm still so impressed by how level-headed Lion is. Lion's profile wasn't kidding about the "this youth is more suitable to become the head than any other" thing.
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Sep 8, 2017 16:47
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Now it's all over but the bean counting. Episode four wasn't all bullshit, either. The information we were to glean from it just wasn't necessarily a straightforward accounting of the dead.
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Sep 8, 2017 16:55
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:Now it's all over but the bean counting. Episode four wasn't all bullshit, either. The information we were to glean from it just wasn't necessarily a straightforward accounting of the dead. I mean, there was lots of good, higher-level information contained within that bullshit. Like the room with the gold is connected to Kuwadorian, or the entire Balcony scene, or everything with Maria and Ange, but the actual murder-mystery aspects of the game were as real as Goat-kun. Most particularly it seems to indicate that the logistical question of how Shannon blew her face off and then hid the gun isn't really a question because none of the face exploding really happened? Or is there a different way to interpret those lines? e: I should add that I really hope Battler Most Fun World was referring to episode 6, where nobody died until Erika showed up, because there's still a lot of stuff I'd like to see get more attention. Kanon in particular seemed like an afterthought in Clair's story, which was a huge letdown because Kanon is my favorite. The very existence of Kanon implies issues regarding gender and sexuality that really, really shouldn't just be swept under the rug. The way R07 has handled everything else in this story leads me to believe they won't be, but there's only so much time. ZiegeDame fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Sep 8, 2017 |
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Sep 8, 2017 17:08
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They definitely don't spell things out for you here, but I think it's more a case of "if you have the right idea in mind, what Will says makes perfect sense."
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Sep 8, 2017 17:25
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Piece Battler saw Shannon's corpse in the EP4 tea party, so an explanation still does have to account for it.
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Sep 8, 2017 17:26
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DentD posted:It's amusing to think about Yasu being kind of a perv but that isn't really a good justification for R07 creating the gratuitous and "grody" costumes. If Umineko existed in a vacuum then maybe it would be okay. But as is the designs drag the entire work down. One thing to keep in mind is that while the designs in question were always pretty bad (like they still have bunny ears and no pants and stuff), the original game's sprite art wasn't really anything that could be referred to as "fanservice." The sprites used in this thread were created for a later adaptation of the game.
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Sep 8, 2017 17:48
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Episode 7 felt really, really short!! Maybe it's because of the lack of murder, but that really rocketed by, huh. I suppose episode 8 will have to be longer in comparison, to wrap up the 1986 happy version of the story as well as the Ange portion (and maybe even the Lion fragment?), and of course to get back to the character we care most about, Goat-kun.
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Sep 8, 2017 18:20
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PetraCore posted:I think there's one pretty interesting thing that hasn't been addressed, at least. I was having this theory earlier too. I thought it was suspicious how there's very little internal insight to Rudolf's thoughts, even though we had chapters devoted to the other Ushiromiya siblings. That's a metagaming reason, I know.  But in regards to in universe stuff, the timing was too conspicuous, especially that it happens to be the time that Battler decides to show up, not a day before nor after. In my theory, I had Battler be brought aboard the events of the family conference as a result of whatever his parents were up to.idonotlikepeas posted:"Hello again! This is Ryukishi07, the author of Umineko. I'm not going to explain any more, so the cryptic things they said during that funeral scene will hopefully be enough for you to decide whether you solved the mysteries properly. Have a good day!" Goddamnit.  I'm still not sure how to interpret the different games' relations to each other. Is it the same people involved with the murders, or is it that the guilty people change each time around, with exception to Yasu who is consistently a culprit?But yeah, this update was awesome. Minty Beatrice was finally put to rest while awesome music was playing in the background the whole time. Honestly, that's a pretty good way to go. Farewell, Clair. Farewell, Will. Farewell, Lion. I look forward to the next update that has Battler's tale in it, one that will surely still have him being obsessed with his relative's breasts while George somehow manages to be grosser than that comparatively.
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Sep 8, 2017 18:22
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EagerSleeper posted:Goddamnit. From Higurashi I would guess the latter, the main culprit that starts things off is always the same, but where the pieces fall and which pieces they are varies. It also makes it more of a mystery imo, so you can't just work out one and know it's the same people for the rest.
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Sep 8, 2017 18:32
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PetraCore posted:I think there's one pretty interesting thing that hasn't been addressed, at least. Because they're the real killers. That's been my theory for a bit now, mainly based on how Eva treats Ange. Someone brought up the idea that Ange might have been poisoned in the last thread, I think. I didn't believe it then, but under the current circumstances it seems very reasonable. ZiegeDame posted:So Episode 4 was just 100% bullshit? Kinda feels like a copout for a mystery. The original stories about who was killed were totally fabricated. We knew that because they were 100% magical. Later, bodies were arranged and "adorned by fiction". They were really corpses at that point. ZiegeDame posted:Episode 3 Eva did it. Except the first twilight. The ring overlaps because the same person is pretending to be dead in the end and beginning. ZiegeDame posted:Episode 2: So does that mean Nanjo and Kumasawa were just faking their deaths? I can't really make sense of Ghoda's behavior in light of that. Also, headbutting a pointed paperweight is a pretty painful way to kill yourself, drat. I think it's more that they weren't killed by no ghost. ZiegeDame posted:Episode 1: Most of my reasoning was still spot on. I just failed to account for the fact that Yasu wanted to get caught in more than just the infamous titty-grabbing scene. Yeah, I think we sewed that one up a while back. EagerSleeper posted:Goddamnit. It's generally Yasu, it seems like, acting with some accomplices. The accomplices change around. We've also got one where it's Eva and Yasu as separate culprits, and another where it's Erika.
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Sep 8, 2017 19:19
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ZiegeDame posted:So Episode 4 was just 100% bullshit? Kinda feels like a copout for a mystery. You're not expected to figure it out the fine details 100% (which is part of the point, I believe, to illustrate that how exactly everything happened isn't actually that important) but it is essentially all solvable and a fairly important one to understand too. Anyway, I think we should get somewhere if you guys started translating what Will's saying into plain English. tiistai fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Sep 8, 2017 |
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Sep 8, 2017 19:19
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ProfessorProf posted:BGM: Golden Nocturne Here's all the relevant parts for convience. Now to start analyzing it...
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Sep 8, 2017 19:43
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ProfessorProf posted:BGM: Golden Nocturne quote:Will's pitch-black slash cut across Clair's body at an angle. The blade passed through her like she was water, but its tip sent golden flower petals scattering. quote:The razor-thin black blur sent golden flower petals scattering again... quote:
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quote:Every time the blade passed through Clair's body, golden flower petals flew everywhere. The petals covering her heart were being torn away, bit by bit. The Illusion of the Witch was breaking down... and becoming flower petals. quote:
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Sep 8, 2017 20:22
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ZiegeDame posted:Kinzo was never in his study to begin with. His corpse was probably hidden in the furnace room the whole time. (That's gotta smell.) Oh, remember this TIP? quote:Let us return to the matter of the needle ice. It basically tells you all about the magical power of putting corpses in a freezer.
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Sep 8, 2017 20:30
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Bahahaquote:The main fuel of magical miracles can be supplemented with a fuel of madness called magical power. It also covers using a wheelbarrow to move that frozen corpse to the furnace.
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Sep 8, 2017 20:49
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ZiegeDame posted:Never was a closed room. I guess this is saying Maria locked it herself. That she saw nothing is a lie.. ZiegeDame posted:Rosa was bribed(gold truth) into pretending the door was locked when it wasn't. (Called it.) Edit: While looking for red truths relating to the chapel, I stumbled onto this great image.  Oh, Battler... Zakrelo fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Sep 8, 2017 |
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Sep 8, 2017 20:50
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Zakrelo posted:Even if Maria locks the door once the killing is done(and that's how the killer was able to get in), who shot the 3? The red truths "Maria, who was in the same room, did not kill them! And of course, their three deaths were homicides!" and "I guarantee the identities of all unidentified corpses. Therefore, there were no body double tricks!" seem to imply it couldn't have been a dead person faking it, and it wasn't say Genji shooting the other two and then himself. Battler's 3-way simultaneous murder theory almost checks out besides being insane and motiveless, but it would mean it's a "real" closed room which contradicts what Will said.  Yasu. Neither Shannon nor Kanon ever left an "unidentified corpse." Both were identified, not actually corpses, and in Shannon's case not actually there.quote:Kanon, Gohda, and Genji stumble onto the chapel first. Afterwards, they call Rosa over and show her the creepy symbols and she gets told it's locked. Then she runs and grabs the envelope with the key inside from Maria's bag. The key is then given to Genji, who uses it on the door and it noisily unlocks. None of this requires Rosa's cooperation as far as I can see, it would have to be the servants pretending the door is locked, although that would require Genji to do something weird to the door to have it make noisy unlocking sounds when it was unlocked already. I guess what Will is saying still makes sense if you interpret it as the servants being bribed instead. Rosa still has to be related to the crime somehow though, considering she was at the chapel the night before. No, Shannon discovers the chapel. Kanon says the door is locked. Rosa tries the door, confirming that it's locked. Rosa goes to get the key from Maria. Then this: quote:Rosa approached the creepy magic circle once again, and put the key in the keyhole. There was a strong resistance. After it resisted for a short while, it stopped resisting with a clunk. Then, squeaking with a noise that hurt one's ears, it slowly, slowly began to open...
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Sep 8, 2017 20:59
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ZiegeDame posted:Tittygrab. Specifically: what if George had pushed past Hideyoshi and just looked for Shannon's corpse himself? The whole plan would have fallen apart. ZiegeDame posted:Never was a closed room. I guess this is saying Maria locked it herself. That she saw nothing is a lie. She could have faced the wall the whole time. But she was used as part of the illusion either way. ZiegeDame posted:Yasu couldn't have stopped whatever killed Battler even if they wanted to. Most likely the explosion. Yasu would have been too dead to stop it at that point anyway. Zakrelo posted:Even if Maria locks the door once the killing is done(and that's how the killer was able to get in), who shot the 3? The red truths "Maria, who was in the same room, did not kill them! And of course, their three deaths were homicides!" and "I guarantee the identities of all unidentified corpses. Therefore, there were no body double tricks!" seem to imply it couldn't have been a dead person faking it, and it wasn't say Genji shooting the other two and then himself. Battler's 3-way simultaneous murder theory almost checks out besides being insane and motiveless, but it would mean it's a "real" closed room which contradicts what Will said. Sayo did it. There is no unidentified corpse; Shannon's corpse was identified. It was just identified by a liar, and wasn't actually there. It's all flummery.
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Sep 8, 2017 21:00
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Zakrelo posted:Even if Maria locks the door once the killing is done(and that's how the killer was able to get in), who shot the 3? The red truths "Maria, who was in the same room, did not kill them! And of course, their three deaths were homicides!" and "I guarantee the identities of all unidentified corpses. Therefore, there were no body double tricks!" seem to imply it couldn't have been a dead person faking it, and it wasn't say Genji shooting the other two and then himself. Battler's 3-way simultaneous murder theory almost checks out besides being insane and motiveless, but it would mean it's a "real" closed room which contradicts what Will said. ZiegeDame posted:Shannon's corpse was never there, it was an illusion. Hideyoshi lied, we've been over this one a ton. Shannon faked her own death, which more or less gave her free agency to do whatever she wanted in the background as "Beatrice". Maria, already well aware of Beatrice, went along with this. (Shannon was also an identified corpse. Her identity was not explicitly, by the nature of the red, guaranteed.) e:f;b
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Sep 8, 2017 21:00
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ZiegeDame posted:At least take the time to check the scene in question before you try to contradict someone about the specifics of a given scenario. I did check the scene, thats why I even said anything about it. It seems I started too far down on the page on LParchive, so I made a mistake. Sorry.
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Sep 8, 2017 21:03
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Zakrelo posted:Edit: While looking for red truths relating to the chapel, I stumbled onto this great image. Beatrice has one hell of a "can you believe this bullshit" expression if I ever saw one.
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Sep 8, 2017 21:05
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