|
Why cookie Rocket posted:If Cooper has any agency in the ending, why is he so confused by everything that happens after they arrive in TP? Because the reality he's in is causing him to slowly lose himself whereas Diane lost herself in the motel scene. He manages to keep his poo poo together as long as he does, because he had the Fireman's information. He feels certain he's on the right track when they get to Twin Peaks, but when the unfamiliar woman answers the door his sense of reality is being torn away.
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2017 06:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 22:29 |
|
|
Why cookie Rocket posted:I don't disagree exactly but I still haven't seen a single "good guys win" interpretation that actually addresses "what year is this" at all. If Cooper has any agency in the ending, why is he so confused by everything that happens after they arrive in TP? The moment that actually sticks out to me more than anything is when Cooper puts through the call to the Sheriff's station. When Frank picks up he heartily declares,"Hello Harry!" and then you see his face fall when Frank explains he is Harry's brother. It's the first time that I recall since Cooper's awakening where he doesn't seem to be in complete possession of the facts/control of the situation. I think it might have been the first sign that things weren't going to go exactly as he thought they were. I mean the obvious explanation is that he's sad/surprised that rather than his good friend Harry it's a different Sheriff Truman, but given that he knew where everybody was gonna be/how they were going to be placed, even exactly when they would arrive etc, it's interesting that he didn't know Harry wouldn't be there.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2017 06:15
|
|
|
I've been listening to the original mix of Wild West since that episode aired and the Roadhouse mix is a super cool interesting alternate version. Also happy to have the Lynch remix of American Woman in my library.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2017 07:58
|
|
|
This guy thinks the dream is real life and that the world of Twin Peaks was a red herring to tell a fable. Twin Peaks was basically incidental the story itself. And that the answer to the question "Is it future or is it past? " is that it is the now. The whole story will always take place in the now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=?B3uN3uLVODc
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2017 09:16
|
|
|
I noticed they changed the main theme (not the title track) last time I watched s2 but I didn't notice that it happens immediately after ep 9 when s2 jumps the shark.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2017 10:28
|
|
|
A small detail I can't believe I didn't notice before: "Garmonbozia" is a corruption of "ambrosia".
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2017 12:51
|
|
|
Jimbot posted:Going by that reading of the ending, it seems like it was more of a gamble than a certainty to me. It paid off. You can be certain of a plan but not of its success. I agree that I don't think it was a mission success phrase for him but an actual question. Making him that certain would have diminished Judy but in the end, I buy into that he succeeded. I liked those theories more than the nihilistic ones. It seems fair to assume that Cooper was punching above his weight by trying to confront Judy. Despite that, he also had the support of just about everyone: Major Briggs, the Fireman, MIKE, Phillip Jeffries, Gordon and Diane. This leads me to believe that, while success wasn't certain, it wasn't some kind of hubristic "he just doesn't know when to stop" move on Coop's part, either. The final question is terrifying because Cooper usually doesn't lose his composure. It's ambiguous, though, neither entirely bad nor good. What we're seeing after the scream is either Judy being defeated, Judy winning or Judy simply revealing herself. The ending is a moment of utter uncertainty that never gets fully resolved. Jerusalem posted:The moment that actually sticks out to me more than anything is when Cooper puts through the call to the Sheriff's station. When Frank picks up he heartily declares,"Hello Harry!" and then you see his face fall when Frank explains he is Harry's brother. It's the first time that I recall since Cooper's awakening where he doesn't seem to be in complete possession of the facts/control of the situation. I think it might have been the first sign that things weren't going to go exactly as he thought they were. You don't actually see his face fall because it's only showing Frank. The next time you see Cooper, he's asking, as chipper as ever: "We're just entering Twin Peaks city limits. Is the coffee on?" Later, he even goes on to explain that Major Briggs told him he'd receive the key from sheriff Truman, and that he naturally assumed it would be Harry. RBX posted:This guy thinks the dream is real life and that the world of Twin Peaks was a red herring to tell a fable. Twin Peaks was basically incidental the story itself. And that the answer to the question "Is it future or is it past? " is that it is the now. The whole story will always take place in the now. I could see that being the moral, to some degree. Cooper was always about those little moments in which he just took time to enjoy life. That's also what differentiated him from the more cynical and bitter Albert whose "concerns were global". Cooper helps people, not all of humanity. In season three, Cooper barely deals with the moments anymore. He doesn't enjoy coffee, and doesn't take the time to properly meet Truman and the others before he leaves. His concerns aren't global, they're cosmic. Then again, I think people also have a point that he seems to lose himself once he enters the parallel dimension. Maybe he's exactly in such a rush because timing is of the essence, and losing track of time means that you're lost in the other dimension. Gyro Zeppeli posted:A small detail I can't believe I didn't notice before: "Garmonbozia" is a corruption of "ambrosia". So that's why that word sounded so familiar. 
And More fucked around with this message at 12:55 on Sep 9, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2017 12:52
|
|
|
I'm not sure how much to read into the Truman stuff, but there really was a lot of "I didn't know it would be this Sheriff Truman" this season. It was said/expressed by The Major's wife, Lucy, Cole, Bad Coop and Good Coop. Almost like an indicator of the timeline being screwy.RBX posted:This guy thinks the dream is real life and that the world of Twin Peaks was a red herring to tell a fable. Twin Peaks was basically incidental the story itself. And that the answer to the question "Is it future or is it past? " is that it is the now. The whole story will always take place in the now. Cromulent fucked around with this message at 13:04 on Sep 9, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2017 13:00
|
|
|
And More posted:You don't actually see his face fall because it's only showing Frank. The next time you see Cooper, he's asking, as chipper as ever: "We're just entering Twin Peaks city limits. Is the coffee on?" Later, he even goes on to explain that Major Briggs told him he'd receive the key from sheriff Truman, and that he naturally assumed it would be Harry. Huh, that's interesting. I guess I was projecting my own feelings onto that scene and remembered it differently. I did the same thing I watched the Sopranos finale and projected a lot of paranoia and tension onto Tony during the final scene which didn't seem to be present at all the second time I watched it. I just really wanted Cooper and Harry to hang out again, okay 
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2017 13:31
|
|
|
https://i.imgur.com/ozE1bg9.gifv
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2017 13:57
|
|
|
wow
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2017 14:06
|
|
|
TheMaestroso posted:Because the reality he's in is causing him to slowly lose himself whereas Diane lost herself in the motel scene. He manages to keep his poo poo together as long as he does, because he had the Fireman's information. He feels certain he's on the right track when they get to Twin Peaks, but when the unfamiliar woman answers the door his sense of reality is being torn away. Agreed, so the idea of "Cooper as mastermind closing a trap" in that world makes zero sense.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2017 14:23
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:Huh, that's interesting. I guess I was projecting my own feelings onto that scene and remembered it differently. I did the same thing I watched the Sopranos finale and projected a lot of paranoia and tension onto Tony during the final scene which didn't seem to be present at all the second time I watched it. tbf that scene IS full of paranoia and tension, it's just in the filmmaking rather than coming from Gandolfini's performance
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2017 14:26
|
|
|
And More posted:It seems fair to assume that Cooper was punching above his weight by trying to confront Judy. Despite that, he also had the support of just about everyone: Major Briggs, the Fireman, MIKE, Phillip Jeffries, Gordon and Diane. This leads me to believe that, while success wasn't certain, it wasn't some kind of hubristic "he just doesn't know when to stop" move on Coop's part, either. Yeah, that reading does explain why he's in such a rush after Mr. C and Bob are defeated and why he's kind of dour, but not outright cold, in Odessa. He's in a rush because the longer he stays in that alternate dimension the more of himself he'll lose, probably like Laura did. It's still my favorite read on the ending and makes me appreciate it a whole lot more. Also explains the super-imposed face of Cooper and his questions to Diane, which was something I couldn't parse at all.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2017 15:43
|
|
|
Why cookie Rocket posted:Agreed, so the idea of "Cooper as mastermind closing a trap" in that world makes zero sense. If you're referring to the article posted earlier, you're misinterpreting Cooper's place. While he's one of the main architects of the plan, he only knows what he needs to do. He's no mastermind. He has no control over how things will play out around him or what the trap dimension will be like. Part of the trap involves assuming new identities, which Diane does overnight and leaves. Cooper sustains himself longer out of necessity to achieve his goal, however that may play out.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2017 16:29
|
|
|
O_O
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2017 17:27
|
|
|
TheMaestroso posted:If you're referring to the article posted earlier, you're misinterpreting Cooper's place. While he's one of the main architects of the plan, he only knows what he needs to do. He's no mastermind. He has no control over how things will play out around him or what the trap dimension will be like. Part of the trap involves assuming new identities, which Diane does overnight and leaves. Cooper sustains himself longer out of necessity to achieve his goal, however that may play out. Mastermind, one of the architects, whatever. If the plan is actually working, he shouldn't be confused about something as simple as the year. I'm not saying he has no idea what he's doing, but the people trying to force a "good guys win" reading on a moment where Cooper stumbles around and Laura screams in terror are really grasping at straws.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2017 18:25
|
|
|
Why cookie Rocket posted:If the plan is actually working, he shouldn't be confused about something as simple as the year. That's just it - he's not sure the plan is working, because not only did Laura completely forget who she used to be, but there's no trace of the Palmers at the Palmer household. That inconsistency throws his confidence and sense of place out the window, and this causes him to question what, exactly, is going on. Also, not sure what you're getting out of dunking on people for liking a particular theory just because you see it as too happy, or whatever. It's actually tragic for multiple reasons despite the possibility that they may have succeeded in the end.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2017 18:41
|
|
|
TheMaestroso posted:That's just it - he's not sure the plan is working, because not only did Laura completely forget who she used to be, but there's no trace of the Palmers at the Palmer household. That inconsistency throws his confidence and sense of place out the window, and this causes him to question what, exactly, is going on. It's kind of interesting to see him go from extremely happy and optimistic at seeing Diane and that slowly washes away for the rest of 17 and in 18 to the point he is confused by it. It's like wandering a desert, despite knowing where the oasis is, then coming to a huge rock and being confused why the oasis isn't there, then your companion realizing it's behind that rock. I do hope they all see each other again someday.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2017 18:52
|
|
|
Vikar Jerome posted:[GIF] Oh dang
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2017 19:11
|
|
|
Cooper could have succeeded in that part of the plan was his inevitable disorientation and loss of his original self. It is actually a very profound representation of "success" in that sense. Cooper isn't a heroic godlike person. The message can simply be that in order to succeed you have to sacrifice yourself and become someone possibly unrecognizable. It makes a bit of sense considering Diane reminded Cooper of the ramifications of what he is about to do. He understands and goes through with the plan, which leads to the corrosion of his recognizable identity and confusion, which The Fireman knew would happen and did everything he could to keep Cooper's wits about him as long as was possible.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2017 19:27
|
|
|
There may just be more to that guy's 17/18 sync theory than overly wishful reaching
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2017 19:33
|
|
|
It seems like that thing where people overlay The Shining being played backwards over the film being played forwards. Like yeah some of "matches" look cool but how much of this footage ends up totally looking like nonsense?
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2017 19:40
|
|
|
Why cookie Rocket posted:I don't disagree exactly but I still haven't seen a single "good guys win" interpretation that actually addresses "what year is this" at all. If Cooper has any agency in the ending, why is he so confused by everything that happens after they arrive in TP? I don't know if ou guys do this. But you can somewhat control you dreams when you are sleeping. it's kinda dumb and doesn't do anything, but if you're in a nightmare or having a bad dream, you can ask yourself concrete questions such as what year is it, what did I have for supper, how did I get here. Usually, the part of your brain that engineers the dream doesn'T work out those kinds of things and when it can't come up with an answer you wake up or at the very least realise you're sleeping and it's not real. I get the feeling that cooper was sent in to wake Laura up. once he asks the question, she thinks about it, and wakes up, just like we would if we were to ask ourselves a question like that while we are dreaming.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2017 19:42
|
|
|
Raxivace posted:It seems like that thing where people overlay The Shining being played backwards over the film being played forwards. Like yeah some of "matches" look cool but how much of this footage ends up totally looking like nonsense? I think it lines up at important points, mainly towards the end but with others are a stretch. The guy does have a point - doing an ending that way is a very David Lynch thing.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2017 19:46
|
|
|
Raxivace posted:It seems like that thing where people overlay The Shining being played backwards over the film being played forwards. Like yeah some of "matches" look cool but how much of this footage ends up totally looking like nonsense? i dunno, might be something, might just be luck. either way, some cool as poo poo wallpaper pictures: http://imgur.com/a/BQoXl    
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2017 19:50
|
|
|
What am I supposed to be seeing?
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2017 20:02
|
|
|
Shibawanko posted:What am I supposed to be seeing? both episodes 17 and 18 played over each other right from the start and the bit in 17 where sarah smashes the photo and starts to flicker in and out and then goes completely black syncs up perfectly in an almost intentional way with when carrie starts and then fully remembers being laura thus canceling out this judy/judydimention/startingtheloopagain/laurabomb people have being doing these sync ups most of the season for some scenes, like the monster box/naido slashing and the dougie fork in socket/rubycrawlinginroadhouse/audrey's dance (that one is synced from the start of the music and audrey seems to shift realities when ruby screams and cooper sticks the fork in.) no one knows if this is intentional or just weird luck but i love it nonetheless. Vikar Jerome fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Sep 9, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2017 20:05
|
|
|
So what was the deal of the dumb echololalia prisoner with the bloody face? Does he just exist to mock everything by repeating it sarcastically?
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2017 20:23
|
|
|
Vikar Jerome posted:both episodes 17 and 18 played over each other right from the start and the bit in 17 where sarah smashes the photo and starts to flicker in and out and then goes completely black syncs up perfectly in an almost intentional way with when carrie starts and then fully remembers being laura thus canceling out this judy/judydimention/startingtheloopagain/laurabomb They synch up because they're the last shots of each episode. I thought what I was supposed to be seeing was that Laura seems to be following Sarah with her eyes.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2017 20:34
|
|
|
Vikar Jerome posted:i dunno, might be something, might just be luck. Reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beLIF2NhESs
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2017 20:41
|
|
|
Spermando posted:They synch up because they're the last shots of each episode. I thought what I was supposed to be seeing was that Laura seems to be following Sarah with her eyes. Nnnno they're not. The last bit of 17 was Laura disappearing from FWWM. Coop sticking the fork in the socket and Ruby crawling on the floor were the same ep too.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2017 20:42
|
|
|
have people found an explanation for audrey's last scene. is she in the lodge?
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2017 20:43
|
|
|
Vikar Jerome posted:no one knows if this is intentional or just weird luck but i love it nonetheless. The thing that really speaks against this is that there is no moment of absolute overlap. Like, if I wanted you to think that something could be overlayed in my hypothetical art house TV show, I'd put identical or almost identical scenes at the same part of the episode. It's like a counterpoint in music. You've got to have consonance sometimes to highlight the dissonance and vice versa. Krinkle posted:So what was the deal of the dumb echololalia prisoner with the bloody face? Does he just exist to mock everything by repeating it sarcastically? No clue, but the charred man in the cell from the second episode also repeated Matthew Lillard's "Oh my god." Maybe the guy was a charred man in the making. Some odd detail I also noticed: When Chantal and Mr. C have sex in episode two, it mirrors Cooper and Diane's sex scene for a moment. Chantal's standing in the doorway, and he asks her to come over, and then he reaches between her legs. (Can we please not overlay those scenes, thanks.) psychoJ posted:Nnnno they're not. The last bit of 17 was Laura disappearing from FWWM. Coop sticking the fork in the socket and Ruby crawling on the floor were the same ep too. You'd think both screams lining up would be the basic requirement for this theory to even exist. Not a single one of the constantly repeated phrases, sounds or screams lines up even slightly. And More fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Sep 9, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2017 20:48
|
|
|
Kurtofan posted:have people found an explanation for audrey's last scene. based on the twin timelines loop stuff, her main scenes are in the judy/carrie/richardlinda negative world and she skips between that world where she was never in the bomb blast to the world where she was in the coma/maybe dead world. when either the fork does something or when carrie screams and that world shuts down.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2017 20:55
|
|
|
Vikar Jerome posted:based on the twin timelines loop stuff, her main scenes are in the judy/carrie/richardlinda negative world and she skips between that world where she was never in the bomb blast to the world where she was in the coma/maybe dead world. when either the fork does something or when carrie screams and that world shuts down. i love this loving show
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2017 20:57
|
|
|
i watched the two episodes like the article said to and very little synchronises but those things always require you to reach to make any connection, if there's anything in the first 50 minutes its innocuous poo poo like doors opening and closing relatively close to the same time. but yea that last scene synchronises perfectly and was chilling to watch
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2017 20:59
|
|
|
It's always nice to see a Scream Queen defeat her enemy with her scream, too.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2017 21:03
|
|
|
Vikar Jerome posted:both episodes 17 and 18 played over each other right from the start and the bit in 17 where sarah smashes the photo and starts to flicker in and out and then goes completely black syncs up perfectly in an almost intentional way with when carrie starts and then fully remembers being laura thus canceling out this judy/judydimention/startingtheloopagain/laurabomb I'm staring at it and not seeing it. Was there a flicker in the final scene? I don't remember that.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2017 21:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 22:29 |
|
|
That is probably just a coincidence, but it is really interesting regardless. Then again, maybe not? I didn't buy most of that guy's theory, but the whole show doesn't have to sync up to make it interesting, just that last part. Shibawanko posted:I'm staring at it and not seeing it. Was there a flicker in the final scene? I don't remember that. There was definitely glitching and skipping in that last scene, and in other scenes throughout the series.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2017 21:36
|
|
