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If we are talking about creepy overlays, then here's the one I still find the most convincing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxoTfHWrNHE That one I think really has some meaning, because she truly is "drinking full and descending" in this scene. Curiously, this is the Sarah Palmer scene that comes between two very different encounters with older men: her encounter with Hawk at her threshold (which might be worth taking another look at simply because it's a scene set on the Palmer house threshold) and the encounter with the man at the bar. In the scene with Hawk, it seems like she's fighting some sort of internal battle. In the scene at the bar, it looks like something won that battle unequivocally, which must be what we're watching here.
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Sep 9, 2017 23:33
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Half-Life 3 confirmed.
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Sep 10, 2017 02:28
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okay yeah im starting to be convinced about this overlaying poo poo the knife sounds from the first killing overlayed with cooper's flight also sync up
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Sep 10, 2017 05:32
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https://www.facebook.com/Meltymanmedia/videos/1549391701846642/?hc_ref=ARTqnzRaBXGHC--xWPSwuIse90u2wPUZecQRCkKrXtbKBHZD6aR8D52TxmUsthTS9rQ First Sunday in a while without new Twin Peaks to look forward to  Oh well, I'm still having fun theorizing about whatever the hell happened last Sunday.
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Sep 10, 2017 09:07
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Perhaps someone more into movies with knowledge of directors, styles, etc can answer this for me. Why is it Lynch can have a movie end with many unanswered questions, ones which AFAIK deliberately have no definitive answer. Yet if any other film were to so the same, the writing/directing would be considered a failure?
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Sep 10, 2017 15:11
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The Merkinman posted:Perhaps someone more into movies with knowledge of directors, styles, etc can answer this for me. because lynch is a competent director who understands art and visual cinema and gives you enough context to work with to form your own conclusions and emotions, most others don't understand this and just straight up think not answering poo poo and providing no context or removing scenes or details to add "mystery" is same thing and they then go for the "much speculation by everyone" type of horseshit which means nothing and they have nothing to say, they just think "oh this will keep em talking" without realizing their poo poo has nothing going on.
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Sep 10, 2017 15:38
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The Merkinman posted:Perhaps someone more into movies with knowledge of directors, styles, etc can answer this for me. lol don't ever watch a Bunuel movie
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Sep 10, 2017 15:42
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The Merkinman posted:Perhaps someone more into movies with knowledge of directors, styles, etc can answer this for me. I honestly think most of his movies and works have definitive answers and stories, Lynch just personally doesn't want to talk about or explain them because he keeps saying "The film is the talking" and stuff like that. Mulholland Drive, Lost Highway, and Inland Empire are all very surreal and abstract movies but with close attention and maybe some rewatches and some time in your head, they coalesce into narratives that make sense, mostly. Inland Empire was a hard one for me and is probably the least sensible; it was written and filmed improvisationally anyway and is the most overtly dreamlike of his works, but the wiki and that halfborn page helped a lot.
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Sep 10, 2017 15:50
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The Merkinman posted:Perhaps someone more into movies with knowledge of directors, styles, etc can answer this for me. This is like.... so not true... Look at Christopher Nolan. Did Memento or (an obvious example) Inception have definitive answers at the end? What about Paul Thomas Anderson. Were there any "definitive answers" at the end of There Will Be Blood, or Magnolia - were were truly given any legitimate foreshadowing for the frog-fall, or reason why it occurred afterwards? Nothing beyond "these things do happen" as far as I can recall. Or one of my favorite directors, Jim Jarmusch - I'm fairly certain a number of his films deliberately ask almost no questions, and provide fewer answers. Down By Law is a wonderful, beautiful, enchanting film where questions and answers are entirely beside the point, unless they involve the mechanics of survival and living. David Lynch is also just much more of a... er, "conventional" modern artist in most of his life these days than the aforementioned directors. He's really uninterested in definitive answers and as far as I can tell finds them creatively stifling, which I can understand. I don't want to sound condescending saying all of this, although I probably will. But one of the things about working this way, and creating art on the scale of something like this, involves working spontaneously and almost discovering through the process of making the film what the general meaning might be. So perhaps I'm a bit more forgiving of dangling plot threads or characters, because sometimes you simply need to go where the story takes you, and you are not always in total control of that. I was thinking before, looking at how rough and weird and not quite right Bad Cooper's hair seems when he appears in front of the Sheriff's station, that perhaps Lynch chose to shoot the script in reverse-chronological order. And I actually think that's evidently what Lynch did, when you look closer. I mean, there's the somewhat rough makeup, and there's also that the very ending scene (Cooper/Richard and Laura/Carrie at the Palmer house) was one of the very first things filmed. I really don't think it's a stretch to say that he may have overall worked in a backwards direction while filming scenes. If he worked this way, then this is actually really fairly interesting. So many TV shows work on a schedule that ensures that the past of the show dictates the future, even within the season. It must! I'm starting to wonder if Lynch deliberately created this series with the future dictating the past. I''m... Not quite sure where I'm going with all this, but I feel like MIKE's oft-repeated question "is it fuuuture, or is it past?" ties into the whole thing. I find it interesting that Laura screaming and vanishing is often linked to Mike asking that question - which seems oddly significant. Incidentally, it's worth pointing out that "what year is it?" is essentially the exact same question as "is it fuuuture, or is it past?" Now, when MIKE asks that question in the Lodge, it seems intentionally rhetorical or sardonic; after all, he's asking that question in a place that does not appear to have an entirely normal relationship with time, at least vis-a-vis time as we experience and understand it. So it's a very intriguing question for Mike to ask, and it's notable also that Cooper *never* has an answer for him. It's almost like MIKE is trying to get Cooper thinking in order to have a proper answer to that season-ending question. kaworu fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Sep 10, 2017 |
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Sep 10, 2017 15:57
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The Merkinman posted:Perhaps someone more into movies with knowledge of directors, styles, etc can answer this for me. If a movie has a conventional structure or narrative it's going to be confusing to the viewer if it ends without a conventional conclusion that ties up most or all of the plot lines. Lynch's work tends to use convention in a kind of blurry way where things don't feel the same as they would in a comparable movie. The tendency for him to make his films have dream-like moments or sections (or all the way through) adds to the sense that things aren't what you thought they were. These subversions to convention allow his films to end in a way that feels abrupt or incomplete at first yet allow the viewer to make sense of it through reflection and recontextualization upon further viewings (though the latter isn't always needed). The intuitive nature of his filmmaking leads naturally to these things while still retaining a cohesive through-line. E: To add to this using kaworu's examples, more conventional films like Memento and Inception (which happen to be favorites of mine) manage to make an uncertain ending work by virtue of two things. The first is having pretty much everything in the films tied up by the final scene. The second is that both films deal with uncertainty and the nature of reality, and as such are more accessible to the viewer when delving into an less conventional ending. Memento involves the fluidity of memory and how that shapes your perception of self and the world around you, and Inception has characters literally entering people's dreams, blurring the lines between what's real and not (reflecting this directly with Cobb's wife, Mal losing her grip on reality). When a film is willing to challenge the audience with material like this in an intelligent way, it opens up possibilities to how the story can end. TheMaestroso fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Sep 10, 2017 |
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Sep 10, 2017 16:15
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I'm rewatching season 1 and there are some stuff there that I didn't remember and that resonates with season 3. Like Sarah palmer being known for having dreams and that cooper's first dream in the series is supposed to be set 25 years in the future.
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Sep 10, 2017 16:33
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CP6dr_bc2rI
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Sep 10, 2017 16:50
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The Merkinman posted:Perhaps someone more into movies with knowledge of directors, styles, etc can answer this for me. what the gently caress are you talking about, have you ever seen a movie that didn't star Vin Diesel
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Sep 10, 2017 19:18
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It's "What year is this", not "What year is it?" you guys.
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Sep 10, 2017 19:38
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Hakkesshu posted:what the gently caress are you talking about, have you ever seen a movie that didn't star Vin Diesel don't knock vin diesel. ride or die. 
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Sep 10, 2017 19:48
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Vin Diesel is cool and Lynch should direct him in something.
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Sep 10, 2017 19:56
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Vikar Jerome posted:don't knock vin diesel. ride or die. i didn't say he was bad but his movies typically don't have ambiguous endings
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Sep 10, 2017 20:20
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I'm at peace with most of the unresolved aspects of this wonderful S3 whether through my interpretation of what certain things mean or just knowing there will be no definitive answer - with the exception of two things: - Hawk's walk to Glastonbury Grove while talking with Margaret. They know something is happening, he sees the Red Room drapes, then the scene is over. What is the significance of this? - Briggs' body and how/why it ended up being placed in Ruth's bed (with her severed head) and why Dougie's wedding ring was placed in his stomach.
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Sep 10, 2017 20:27
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The Walrus posted:also, to all the 'there was no ending' people, the ending was episodes 15-17, 18 was an epilogue/coda. it just wasn't the ending you wanted. "It's not the ending you wanted" is another thing people need to stop saying. Many major storylines were just cut off in the middle. They had no ending. The Sarah and Audrey storylines are especially egregious; we have no idea what happened to them. Those entire storylines could have been cut and the narrative wouldn't have lost anything at all. I didn't "want" any particular ending. It was Lynch's story to tell and I was just along for the ride. I would have been happy with whatever ending he gave me. Any ending. But then he didn't give me one. You could argue the same thing for season two but the difference is he didn't know the show was going to be canceled. But in season three he knew he was going to have to wrap this poo poo up and he didn't. Now all of that criticism is invalid if those are merely cliffhangers leading in to a surprise season four, but that's extremely unlikely.
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Sep 10, 2017 20:42
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But there is an ending, though. Not to some side stories, but certainly to the main storyline with Coop etc.
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Sep 10, 2017 20:46
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...! posted:"It's not the ending you wanted" is another thing people need to stop saying. Many major storylines were just cut off in the middle. They had no ending. The Sarah and Audrey storylines are especially egregious; we have no idea what happened to them. Those entire storylines could have been cut and the narrative wouldn't have lost anything at all. you only place so much importance on those scenes because of your prior attachments to characters. they aren't meant to have arcs, they are there are vignettes for a different purpose. the show followed a really clear narrative structure for all of its ambiguity and general hosed up poo poo, so yeah from episode 15 on the show was wrapping up everything that had been established as an actual narrative arc. Things were coming together in anticipation of the big, stagelike climax in the police station, after which we got the epilogue. and the really magical thing about that epilogue is that it's the perfect ending. It's like the narrative next step to the sopranos finale - not only does it convey the same idea, that we don't know what comes next and neither do the characters (and of course a lot of the further subtext), the peaks finale wove the means to convey that idea through its whole season, this sense of mystery and wonder that the finale only amplified. the reason it's the perfect ending is cause we're going to be talking about it for a half century. we are going to be trying to figure out what comes next but we actually have all these clues to pore through, trying to understand the past to guess what might come next. or yeh maybe there'll be a next season but it's ok with me if there's not
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Sep 10, 2017 21:07
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I don't think that poster is actually going to respond to anyone, to be honest. They're just gonna come in every five or so pages and post the same old poo poo.
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Sep 10, 2017 21:15
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...! posted:"It's not the ending you wanted" is another thing people need to stop saying. Many major storylines were just cut off in the middle. They had no ending. The Sarah and Audrey storylines are especially egregious; we have no idea what happened to them. Those entire storylines could have been cut and the narrative wouldn't have lost anything at all. Both Sarah and Audrey's stories ended, just not in a way you found satisfying. Defying storytelling conventions doesn't make the story bad or wrong. It's just not the ending you wanted. I'm sure a lot of people agree with you, just as a lot of people in this thread liked the ending just fine. Art is subjective. You can either like it or dislike it. If you want to talk about why you disliked it, then fine, but if you want to pretend that you're the official arbiter of quality television and your opinion is Objectively Correct, go do it in another thread, please.
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Sep 10, 2017 21:17
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It's loving bullshit we never found out what kind of car that deputy got
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Sep 10, 2017 21:19
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I just want to know if armpit-rash girl ever got that cleared up.
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Sep 10, 2017 21:24
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On thing I genuinely love about the ending is that it retcons Laura's murder and puts her back at the center of the mystery, which Lynch must have been itching to do for decades. It's like an 18 hour long middle finger to the pricks at ABC who killed the original show.
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Sep 10, 2017 21:25
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I'm gonna need some close analysis to let me know what happened to COCAINE WIZARD
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Sep 10, 2017 21:34
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Perfect ending. Apart from johnny wanko pounding his balls over here. Was there some deep mythic reason for that? Because that whole scene (and character) was  Genuinely interested. Took what should have been the climactic ending of BOB and turned it into a farce. Not even a funny one, just cringe.
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Sep 10, 2017 21:47
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a cute sea otter posted:Perfect ending. Apart from johnny wanko pounding his balls over here. Was there some deep mythic reason for that? Because that whole scene (and character) was brechtian distancing
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Sep 10, 2017 21:55
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...! posted:The Sarah and Audrey storylines are especially egregious; we have no idea what happened to them. Audrey thought she had Door Anxiety but realised after a strange incident of nostalgia that she was actually living inside her own head and something terrible had happened to her. Sarah had a demon living inside of her and ultimately a framed picture of her daughter bore the brunt of that. These are endings. Okay they are not the kind of endings you'd get in something by, say, George Martin (not the Beatles one) or in something by Julia Donaldson, but they are endings nonetheless. I feel you though, I would have had Audrey's story end with her getting her coat and going to the Roadhouse and meeting Coop and then saying "let's fight evil" and then they fight the evil and everyone has a smiling party after they fight the evil (they win) but that's not what happened and I guess I'll just go back to looking at that 1990's promo photo of Cooper looking out of the window while Audrey looks at Cooper and they might have sex soon. As for Sarah I kind of wished Cooper would have gone through all of that stuff in Episode 18 even though it made no sense to me, or my therapist, but when he opens the door Sarah is there, rather than the lady from the Chromatics, and Cooper is like, "Sarah Palmer, or should I say Mother, I mean her mother (pointing at Laura) not mine that would be weird, I have been waiting long for this day". And Sarah is completely unfazed. That big hair of hers is bigger somehow and there electric poo poo dancing through it like intra-cloud lightning. "Dale Cooper," she says "I too knew this day would come. You have grown powerful in your green suit and all that weird poo poo you did with the world's most obvious stroke victim and the kettle thing". Beads of sweat are visible on Coop's forehead as we zoom in on his face. He composes himself and lets out a rallying cry. "FIRE WALK WITH ME!" he bellows in a cool way as he shoots fire from his hands and Sarah does backflips and goes through a window or something equally epic as the two of them engage in jaw dropping physical and energetic combat. One shot gets repeated like three times in quick succession just to show you how awesome what just happened was. But oh no, Sarah grabs hold of a bag of Pine Weasel's and throws them at Coop and he's down and maybe out. Laura just stands there with her hands over her mouth. "This is, excuse me," says Sarah in a voice like shredded treacle, "a drat Dead Coop" and she raises some sharp object like a knife or a chainsaw or something, but just then, JUST THEN, a 1960's Gretch guitar comes swinging out of the corner of the frame and connects with Sarah's head, which shatters totally and sends Pine Weasel's flying to all corners. Coop looks up, beaten but grateful. The camera pans back to reveal the Cockney Boy and his friend James, whose guitar is caked in the gore of victory. "Just you and I, Coop my old friend, just you and I" says James and cheering can be heard behind them. The camera pans back to show the entire crowd from the defeat of Evil Coop in the Sheriff's Station stood in the road. "But how did you all get here?" says Coop, acting confused. "Bought meself a blummin Tardis innit!" says the Cockney boy with the Green Glove as the camera pans to show a potentially huge legal problem for Rancho Rosa Productions in the background. "Well, as I always say," says Coop, beaming from ear to ear, sure of his final victory over I dunno what the gently caress, "everyday, once a day, buy . . . yourself . . . . a . . .Tardis?". The actor Kyle McLaughlin looks really unsure and kind of embarrassed delivering such an obviously bad line which might endanger the whole production due to lawsuits but everyone cheers anyway and the camera pans through the crowd, Lucy, Andy and all, before finally resting on a shot of Gordon Cole chewing a pair of panties.
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Sep 10, 2017 21:57
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I wanted to see Nadine and Jakoby's wedding.
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Sep 10, 2017 22:01
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lmao that spiralled quickly
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Sep 10, 2017 22:08
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Zmej posted:I'm gonna need some close analysis to let me know what happened to COCAINE WIZARD he's the tulpa of bobby briggs, after jack rabbit palace and the cooper situation, when andy goes off to wait for cooper to return on the lone road after 430 on october 10th. deputy bobby briggs receives a vision from major briggs, that shelly is under a tulpa spell and its up to bobby to help restore his family. however, shelly has known all along, she was a double agent, moonlighting from the double r and twin peaks fbi branch. cocaine wizard gets shot to poo poo by shelly for messing with her family. love IS enough. the briggs family celebrate with coffee and pie in the double r. 
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Sep 10, 2017 22:20
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a few DRUNK BONERS posted:brechtian distancing So, fancy theatre words for sucking balls. got it.
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Sep 10, 2017 23:46
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Thanks all for the answers to my questions about Lynch's directing style and examples of other directors (though seemingly only Christopher Nolan?). I don't recall any unanswered questions in Memento, though it has been some time since I last saw it. That seemed like a movie with a twist at the end like The 6th Sense or Jacob's Ladder. I've still never seen Inception. I don't have time to, what with all the Vin Diesel movies and Big Bang Theory episodes I guess.
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Sep 11, 2017 00:11
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Per the executive producer who worked close with Lynch:
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Sep 11, 2017 00:13
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I'm up to Episode 8 of my rewatch and I wonder, do you suppose Senorita Dido is the positive counterpart to Judy's negative? She's sitting when the alarm goes off and seems nonplussed by it, yet when the Fireman comes to check it out he gives her a look that on rewatching feels like asking permission or seeking acknowledgment he should proceed. The next few minutes focus solely on him as he goes to the screening room and emits golden Fallopian tubes from his face. When Dido enters the room a spotlight follows her for the rest of the sequence, something that didn't happen for the Fireman. She has a look of wonderment and near joy at what he's doing, takes Laura's orb and kisses it the way a mother kisses a child's forehead before their first day of school on their own, and releases her into the world. Did she impart resilience or patience to Laura? Was the kiss a sort of, "poo poo's gonna suck for you but know that you're loved?" I didn't recall it but as the camera zooms through the garmonbozia vomit stream it eventually settles on a golden orb similar to Laura's, the inside of which seems like a bloodstream, and then that fades into the mauve ocean and the fortress. Does that imply the fortress is a sanctuary from the pain and sorrow Judy and her ilk cause? If so what does that mean for Laura? Was she made to help keep Bob focused on her, like if she wasn't around he'd have killed dozens more?
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Sep 11, 2017 00:18
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The Merkinman posted:Thanks all for the answers to my questions about Lynch's directing style and examples of other directors (though seemingly only Christopher Nolan?). You're really not missing much.
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Sep 11, 2017 00:18
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When doing a recent rewatch, I think that the exact moment Cooper gets his mental trauma when leading the purple world is when he gets zapped by that first bit of electricity from the socket. As soon as that happens, he gets a total Dougie-like look of stupor on his face.
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Sep 11, 2017 00:31
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Inception is a schlocky Hollywood blockbuster in an art film's skin. Which, there's nothing wrong with that, but that's what it is. It looks pretty, though.
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Sep 11, 2017 00:45
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