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khwarezm posted:Ugh, I'm trying to counter this, so far I've mostly just pointed to my experience going to college in Europe and how it was much cheaper than what I would have had to deal with in America, but I really don't like leaving the intrinsic assumptions of his arguments about the integrity of capitalism unfettered by government intervention unchallenged, anybody have any thoughts and maybe data on the reasons for America's college costs and how the typical libertarian arguments around this are a crock of poo poo? It has to do with "government intervention" only in perhaps the very loosest sense. This short piece in the Washington Post goes over some of it: one of the large issues is that enrollment has boomed while per-capita government investment has failed to keep pace. Another big driver is the massive expansion of administrative jobs and salaries: administration is growing at about five times the rate of the faculty, and administrators generally cost more at every level than faculty do. An expansion of the pool of college graduates has meant that a degree no longer serves the class-signaling function that it once did, so prestigious jobs are no longer a guarantee: this makes a degree a minimum qualification for many jobs rather than a guarantor. This contributes to the commodification of degrees: college administrators are now behaving like corporations in a seller's market, because they know people will continue paying for degrees in spite of vastly inflated costs. The reasonable solution to this would actually be more government oversight of universities, because it's very difficult to argue that expanding administration while decreasing the salaries of the teaching faculty is anything but an attempt to extract money from students while giving them as little as possible. Source: study and teach at a large research university that's supposed to be one of the good ones but is still horrific.
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Aug 19, 2017 23:42
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The thread will probably turn on me for this, but I worked for a 3rd rate university last year as full-time non-tenure-track faculty and at the same time they hired me they hired a "Director of Diversity" or some such nonsense. I actually have skills that require thousands of hours of experience and have run my own university-level language program single-handedly, but he gets 4.5 times my salary.
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Aug 19, 2017 23:54
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I don't really see why this thread would dislike the idea that high level staff being paid stupid amounts while doing nothing of value is stupid.
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Aug 20, 2017 00:14
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I don't know why we'd assume a Director of Diversity was nonsense or doing nothing of value.
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Aug 20, 2017 00:16
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I mean I'm inherently suspicious of anybody that gets paid 4.5 times as much as someone else, I don't think people can work 4.5 times harder than other people per hour.
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Aug 20, 2017 00:20
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JustJeff88 posted:The thread will probably turn on me for this, but I worked for a 3rd rate university last year as full-time non-tenure-track faculty and at the same time they hired me they hired a "Director of Diversity" or some such nonsense. I actually have skills that require thousands of hours of experience and have run my own university-level language program single-handedly, but he gets 4.5 times my salary. And how, exactly, do you know they don't have even more difficult to master skills?
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Aug 20, 2017 00:24
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WrenP-Complete posted:I don't know why we'd assume a Director of Diversity was nonsense or doing nothing of value. I merely wanted to mention it as an anecdote showing the ridiculous salaries paid to administrators compared to teaching faculty; I would like to add that I have 8 years of experience as well, so I am no debutant. Having said that, I have no desire to discuss the issue further as at best it would derail the thread and at worst I would end up with an even more derogatory avatar. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 20, 2017 00:26
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OwlFancier posted:I mean I'm inherently suspicious of anybody that gets paid 4.5 times as much as someone else, I don't think people can work 4.5 times harder than other people per hour. I think that's a fair point in general. It feels suspect to me to particularly apply this to diversity related work.
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Aug 20, 2017 00:29
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But why are you assuming it's completely unjustified?
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Aug 20, 2017 00:30
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WrenP-Complete posted:I think that's a fair point in general. It feels suspect to me to particularly apply this to diversity related work. Well yes I was being sort of facetious by pretending that was what was meant 
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Aug 20, 2017 00:34
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A diversity director is likely going to both have to have particularly impressive skills and credentials relevant to the day-to-day of the job they are doing, have unusual political skill to handle the delicacies of the role's interaction with sensitive issues, and have to be compensated for having a target painted on their back for the legal and political firestorm that is diversity. Administration is, in my experience, far less of a source of unnecessary costs in higher education than organized sports.
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Aug 20, 2017 01:03
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Discendo Vox posted:A diversity director is likely going to both have to have particularly impressive skills and credentials relevant to the day-to-day of the job they are doing, have unusual political skill to handle the delicacies of the role's interaction with sensitive issues, and have to be compensated for having a target painted on their back for the legal and political firestorm that is diversity. When you add up the salaries, title 9 lawsuits against frats and jocks, and sorry-the-coach-molested-you-money, it's a big number
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Aug 20, 2017 05:53
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JustJeff88 posted:Having said that, I have no desire to discuss the issue further as at best it would derail the thread and at worst I would end up with an even more derogatory avatar. Don't do this poo poo. If you don't want to derail the thread, keep your mouth closed in the first place. If you want the last word, grow a pair and actually defend your argument so that you get the last word. This "my argument is blah blah blah blah. Now (that I've had the last word) let's end this derail" poo poo is loving weak. And if you're that sensitive about your avatar then pay to get a new one, ffs
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Aug 20, 2017 06:10
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Weatherman posted:This "my argument is blah blah blah blah. Now (that I've had the last word) let's end this derail" poo poo is loving weak. And if you're that sensitive about your avatar then pay to get a new one, ffs It's actually against the D&D rules quote:No Parting shots: Don't announce that you're leaving or done arguing because everyone else is wrong and dumb. Suck it up and leave with dignity or stick around and try to prove everyone else is dumb.
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Aug 20, 2017 06:15
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Saw an ad for this on Quora: https://www.libertarianism.org/media/liberty-chronicles/antinomians-adrift-legend-libertalia "Pirates were the true libertarians!"
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Aug 30, 2017 17:08
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Pirates: Well known for adhering to the NAP.
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Aug 30, 2017 17:11
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OwlFancier posted:Pirates: Well known for adhering to the NAP. It is really more of a guideline.
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Aug 31, 2017 09:58
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Caros posted:It is really more of a guideline.  On the other hand...I was trying to forget the fact that I saw that wretched new movie around seven times so far. 
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Aug 31, 2017 10:30
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In regional politics, here is an article on how libertarianism is gaining a modern foothold in Latin America. It talks about the Atlas Network, the aid these think tanks get from American donors, the rebranding of libertarianism to appeal to the non-upper crust, and other items. I remember a libertarian friend of mine thinking about doing some charity work in Latin America in the near future. It would not surprise me if it was with one of those groups.
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Aug 31, 2017 15:09
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Ugh, don't even remind me. Libertarian-funded "grassroots movements" played a part in making the BBB ("Bullets, Bulls and Bibles") political bloc in Brazil impeach the last president (There was a crisis going on, but others got away with worse without incident) and then basically stall an endless number of corruption probes, skyrocket the deficit so they have excuses to privatize everything, and are now plotting to change the political system to a parliamentarian one so the next president won't have the power to undo their poo poo.
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Sep 1, 2017 06:54
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Sephyr posted:Ugh, don't even remind me. Libertarian-funded "grassroots movements" played a part in making the BBB ("Bullets, Bulls and Bibles") political bloc in Brazil impeach the last president (There was a crisis going on, but others got away with worse without incident) and then basically stall an endless number of corruption probes, skyrocket the deficit so they have excuses to privatize everything, and are now plotting to change the political system to a parliamentarian one so the next president won't have the power to undo their poo poo. Lol possibily the only case I've heard of where a parliamentary system means less democracy
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Sep 1, 2017 06:58
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Lightning Lord posted:Lol possibily the only case I've heard of where a parliamentary system means less democracy Very much the case, in Brazil, where Congress is serially passing measures that 95% of the people oppose under the cover of a backstabbing vice-president. And if they switch systems, the same congress gets to pick the prime minister, and flip a royal bird to the people and the decorative president they voted for. Our former Congress Majority Leader was investigated for about a dozen corruption cases running into the hundreds of millions in illegal cash, and yet was mysteriously never indicted until after he sped the impeachment along. Under a parliamentarian system, he'd likely have been the Prime Minister himself, given the power of his chitty feudal bloc..
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Sep 1, 2017 07:04
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Was listening to public radio in the car this afternoon and they had some economist on arguing that, since the violence in modern vampire stories comes primarily from the monsters in question being unable to obtain what they need legitimately, the best way for people in those fictional worlds to reduce violence from vampires was to legalize sale of blood and let the market sort the rest out.
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Sep 9, 2017 22:08
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You'd think Peter Thiel would have better things to do than ring in to radio shows but apparently not.
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Sep 9, 2017 22:11
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OwlFancier posted:You'd think Peter Thiel would have better things to do than ring in to radio shows but apparently not. Dude's extremely pathetic and more desperate for attention than Trump. He's the spoiled brat that never learned the difference between positive and negative attention and just desperately wants his name and face known around the world, even if it's for being a piece of poo poo. He's a bit like Richard Branson but at least he tries to get attention for more positive stuff.
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Sep 9, 2017 23:39
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Baronjutter posted:Dude's extremely pathetic and more desperate for attention than Trump. He's the spoiled brat that never learned the difference between positive and negative attention and just desperately wants his name and face known around the world, even if it's for being a piece of poo poo. He's a bit like Richard Branson but at least he tries to get attention for more positive stuff. It wasn't actually Peter Thiel. 
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Sep 9, 2017 23:45
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Was listening to public radio in the car this afternoon and they had some economist on arguing that, since the violence in modern vampire stories comes primarily from the monsters in question being unable to obtain what they need legitimately, the best way for people in those fictional worlds to reduce violence from vampires was to legalize sale of blood and let the market sort the rest out. That's.. glossing over a lot of potential details. Par for the course, I suppose. There's also a movie based on that same concept, though I can't remember what it's called. Of course that raises the question: If being a vampire is fine and dandy and there's no violence because blood is readily available, how many might willingly become a vampire? Spoilers: loving everyone and humans are dying out and they're running out of sources of blood. Oops.
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Sep 10, 2017 15:45
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Buried alive posted:That's.. glossing over a lot of potential details. Par for the course, I suppose. I think you're thinking of Daybreakers?
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Sep 10, 2017 16:15
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Buried alive posted:That's.. glossing over a lot of potential details. Par for the course, I suppose.
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Sep 10, 2017 17:39
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I thought the thing with most vampire lore was that becoming a vampire turns most people into violent sociopaths and doesn't merely change your dietary preferences Leave it to a libertarian to just completely gloss over important details I guess
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Sep 10, 2017 23:00
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QuarkJets posted:I thought the thing with most vampire lore was that becoming a vampire turns most people into violent sociopaths and doesn't merely change your dietary preferences When you come from a sociopathic perspective, it all just seems baseline behavior I guess.
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Sep 10, 2017 23:41
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QuarkJets posted:I thought the thing with most vampire lore was that becoming a vampire turns most people into violent sociopaths and doesn't merely change your dietary preferences So becoming a vampire just changes a libertarian's dietary preferences then.
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Sep 10, 2017 23:45
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QuarkJets posted:I thought the thing with most vampire lore was that becoming a vampire turns most people into violent sociopaths and doesn't merely change your dietary preferences The sociopathic violence just comes from being old. You know how bitter older generations get about younger ones? Multiply that by centuries or more, and add in the fact that their own elders never die and never shut up about how wussified the English got ever since those damned Normans came in, and you'll start to get the picture.
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Sep 11, 2017 00:22
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Vampire libertarian chat reminds me of a part in David Graeber's The Utopia of Rules where he uses vampires and werewolves as an example of structural analysis. He points out that both transform people into monster through bites but they are are inversions of each other beyond that. Stock horror movie vampires are usually upper-class, tied to their land or crypt, and are defeated by wooden stakes which peasants can make easily. I can see parallels to libertarianism with its direct benefits to those already in power, property rights, and conflict with working-class concerns. Of course, it is very easy to make broad parallels to most political systems. But I find it amusing.
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Sep 11, 2017 00:28
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I would also throw in "secretly loving to inflict violence while constantly pretending to be the aggrieved party". As someone with modest, passing knowledge of Vampire, the Masquerade, it isn't just about drinking blood to not die. The point is that each vampire has a feral beast inside it that they desperately try to control to stay close to their humanity. Some succeed while others develop other moral paths that completely spit upon conventional human morality. Now that is very much like libertarianism: a morality based purely upon doing whatever one wants and ruthless self-interest, coated with a wafer-thin gloss of intellectualism and respectability, that hates the government because it sees it as the only force stopping it from being Leader of the Pack. Libertarians are all inherently power-hungry and despise the government because they are both jealous of its superior power and resentful of anyone who prevents their slightest whim.
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Sep 11, 2017 00:31
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JustJeff88 posted:I would also throw in "secretly loving to inflict violence while constantly pretending to be the aggrieved party". "I suppose, if you're one of those Brujah degenerates," I reply, Ventruishly.
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Sep 11, 2017 00:35
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Captain_Maclaine posted:"I suppose, if you're one of those Brujah degenerates," I reply, Ventruishly. Ugh, another Sabbat twitter bot? We must not let them turn the Camarilla against itself or we'll wind up with that orange Tzimisce as Prince!
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Sep 11, 2017 01:49
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something something anarchbros.
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Sep 11, 2017 02:34
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hahaha you all know about a White Wolf game. And I know enough to recognize that you know about it. OH NO
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Sep 11, 2017 02:48
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None of it matters since
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Sep 11, 2017 03:48
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