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ZiegeDame posted:But on another note, from the depths of my free-association, imagine if Umineko was Romantic Comedy, rather than a mystery tragedy. Just picture, for a moment, the classic scene where Yasu has three different dates on the same night. I can get behind Yasu as Archie Andrews. It makes sense because Archie comics tend to crossover with Sabrina the Teenage Witch all the time.
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Sep 9, 2017 05:00
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"...Yes, now you can look back and have a drink, while seeing how much of your theory was right. I'm tired of playing the part of the bad guy... and of being a miko. You're done with me now. Bye, Lion. And bye to you too, observer witches." I believe this when All Witchs are dead. This is the one who with only one person, the one tied most close to their Origin who claimed to be a total monster.
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Sep 9, 2017 05:17
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:I mean, I think Yasu suffers from dysphoria. There's a lot of self-hatred and confusion among that kid's personality projections. They staged duels to the death between personalities. That's pretty dire. I think Yasu has physical dysphoria stemming from the fact that their body didn't develop the way they expected it to. But there's also circumstantial evidence that it's not like Yasu is developing in a masculine manner, either. I don't think they shave, for example. Depending on how extensive the damage to their gonads were, I think it's possible they never properly went through any puberty. It is not entirely unlike some intersex conditions, and I think that's pretty hard for Yasu, especially since it sounds like, um... nobody... told them what was going on with their own body for 17 or 18 years? Which is super hosed up!
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Sep 9, 2017 06:03
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Oh Petra, just wanted to give you a heads up that I sent you a friend request on Discord. /been going through and adding various umineko folks xxlicious fucked around with this message at 09:51 on Sep 9, 2017 |
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Sep 9, 2017 06:35
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Still busy, but that was a nice confirmation of everything we theorised.ZiegeDame posted:So Kanon's corpse didn't walk into the kitchen and then start stabbing people later. Beyond that I'm not sure what else this implies. 'Earth to earth' has in others implied suicide or a human culprit that was already shown, with the episode 4 'bomb' one being a possible one representing an activated tool. 'Illusions to illusions' is simply cutting away the Illusion of the Witch. When it has both, it seems to usually imply parts of each. In this case, 'illusions' represents their death by demon-Kanon. So 'earth' probably represents actual-Kanon later killing them. I'll also note we don't seem to have had the 'illusion' of episode 5 covered.
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Sep 9, 2017 10:03
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If anyone is, hypothetically, arguing from a position of having spoiler info only available from the EP8 manga, this would be a great time to not be doing that.
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Sep 9, 2017 13:53
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Cyouni posted:'Earth to earth' has in others implied suicide or a human culprit that was already shown, with the episode 4 'bomb' one being a possible one representing an activated tool. 'Illusions to illusions' is simply cutting away the Illusion of the Witch. When it has both, it seems to usually imply parts of each. In this case, 'illusions' represents their death by demon-Kanon. So 'earth' probably represents actual-Kanon later killing them. Presumably before actual-Kanon locked themself in Natsushi's room and installed a new porthole in their forehead. What I'm still unclear on is what actually happened in the kitchen/servant's room to make Gohda so freaked out, but not too freaked out to enter a locked room with Shannon later.
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Sep 9, 2017 16:00
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xxlicious posted:Oh Petra, just wanted to give you a heads up that I sent you a friend request on Discord. /been going through and adding various umineko folks Oh dang I saw this after I had rejected it bc I didn't know who you were. Try again!
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Sep 9, 2017 18:03
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Also FYI I've got some spoiler info but I deliberately try to not speculate based on that, which is why I keep myself to dissecting motives and characterization a lot of the time. I don't wanna ruin anyone's fun, so I hope I haven't slipped up!
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Sep 9, 2017 18:06
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thank you, Willard, a character literally created to solve the mystery for us dummies. He's great and Lion's great and I love those two.
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Sep 9, 2017 18:37
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PetraCore posted:Also FYI I've got some spoiler info but I deliberately try to not speculate based on that, which is why I keep myself to dissecting motives and characterization a lot of the time. I don't wanna ruin anyone's fun, so I hope I haven't slipped up! You probably shouldn't be posting plot speculation in this thread at all if you have spoiler info.
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Sep 9, 2017 22:47
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ProfessorProf posted:You probably shouldn't be posting plot speculation in this thread at all if you have spoiler info.
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Sep 9, 2017 23:18
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Tired Moritz posted:thank you, Willard, a character literally created to solve the mystery for us dummies.
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Sep 9, 2017 23:32
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PetraCore posted:Yeah, I'll stick to character studies. Honestly it's best to just wait; I've already read the game and have been holding off on saying much of anything, because even posts about stuff that remains unconfirmed are basically the same thing as spoiling the fact that the thing in question won't be confirmed in the future. It's difficult to do any sort of post as someone who knows spoilers without it carrying a bunch of implications with it (ZiegeDame made a good point regarding this earlier, I think on the last page). For example, if a person who knows spoilers argues about something, you can either assume 1. the thing they're arguing is true or 2. the game will never provide an explanation about the thing they're arguing. In either case you're providing information that shouldn't be provided.
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Sep 9, 2017 23:39
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I've been tempted to read spoilers a bunch of times. I just want to know what things I guessed right! And even with Prof's ridiculously generous update schedule, it takes a long time to find out. But then I'd miss out on talking to everyone else in the thread about it, which has honestly been a lot of fun too. It must have been awful for you people having to wait months between episodes.
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Sep 10, 2017 00:08
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Ytlaya posted:Honestly it's best to just wait; I've already read the game and have been holding off on saying much of anything, because even posts about stuff that remains unconfirmed are basically the same thing as spoiling the fact that the thing in question won't be confirmed in the future. It's difficult to do any sort of post as someone who knows spoilers without it carrying a bunch of implications with it (ZiegeDame made a good point regarding this earlier, I think on the last page). For example, if a person who knows spoilers argues about something, you can either assume 1. the thing they're arguing is true or 2. the game will never provide an explanation about the thing they're arguing. In either case you're providing information that shouldn't be provided. Hey thanks, you've put into words pretty well something I usually struggle to talk about.  In regards to witches talking about stuff that they are passionate about, I'd like to reach a point where everyone doesn't have to feel restrained anymore, because I'm a big time fan of analyses and effort posts. Eventually we'll get there, but for now I'll just chew on what info the lp has given. Speaking of which, so far people have been saying that Battler is dead? I don't think the game would just kill off the main character just like that, so think that maybe somehow they're still alive. (Cue all of witchchat ahahaha'ing) Also, many thanks to Prof for being super humanly (witchly? magically?) great with updates. I'm so excited that we're going to be moving towards the final episode. 
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Sep 10, 2017 00:14
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idonotlikepeas posted:It must have been awful for you people having to wait months between episodes. Most people definitely engaged in spoiler/summary reading of what was happening for that reason, at least at the time when the games were still being released.
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Sep 10, 2017 00:31
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Ytlaya posted:Honestly it's best to just wait; I've already read the game and have been holding off on saying much of anything, because even posts about stuff that remains unconfirmed are basically the same thing as spoiling the fact that the thing in question won't be confirmed in the future. It's difficult to do any sort of post as someone who knows spoilers without it carrying a bunch of implications with it (ZiegeDame made a good point regarding this earlier, I think on the last page). For example, if a person who knows spoilers argues about something, you can either assume 1. the thing they're arguing is true or 2. the game will never provide an explanation about the thing they're arguing. In either case you're providing information that shouldn't be provided.
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Sep 10, 2017 00:57
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oh noooo gotta unread the spoilers! if they are spoilers. I just don't even know. dangit petra
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Sep 10, 2017 01:35
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I have since lost the ability to know what the hell is going on, except that Will told us which twilights were real murders and which were just ruses. I'd go as far as to say that my eyes nearly glaze over when I try and think about the mysteries. You can go ahead and call me a quitter. You wouldn't be wrong.
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Sep 10, 2017 01:59
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bman in 2288 posted:I have since lost the ability to know what the hell is going on, except that Will told us which twilights were real murders and which were just ruses. I'd go as far as to say that my eyes nearly glaze over when I try and think about the mysteries. Nah it's good. I'm a big fan of this story but I've never bothered to delve deep into the mystery. There's just too much poo poo to keep up with. I don't even understand how goons in this thread do it when they're getting a drip feed over like a year. I forget everything that happens in any LP beyond the last update.
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Sep 10, 2017 02:08
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bman in 2288 posted:I have since lost the ability to know what the hell is going on, except that Will told us which twilights were real murders and which were just ruses. I'd go as far as to say that my eyes nearly glaze over when I try and think about the mysteries. Redmark posted:Nah it's good. I'm a big fan of this story but I've never bothered to delve deep into the mystery. There's just too much poo poo to keep up with. Thirding all of this. I never really reread updates either...
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Sep 10, 2017 02:20
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I think the first two episodes are definitely worth a reread once you know The Truth. They read as an entirely different story, and everything seems painfully obvious in retrospect.
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Sep 10, 2017 02:26
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witchcore ricepunk posted:oh noooo gotta unread the spoilers! if they are spoilers. I just don't even know. dangit petra
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Sep 10, 2017 02:27
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I think the first two episodes are definitely worth a reread once you know The Truth. They read as an entirely different story, and everything seems painfully obvious in retrospect. As someone who is currently doing a read-aloud playthrough with their partner (and mega-thanks to Prof, as I would never have looked into this VN series without this LP), I gotta confirm that this is true. (Although obviously, I only know most of the truth.) At the very least, reading the first couple episodes after having read 5 & 6 is really interesting -- it's one thing to go from a more 'straightforward' telling of events to a more metaphorical one, but going the other way around is a very different and interesting thing. It feels weird to see the steam in the bathroom (where Hideyoshi's body was) during Episode 1 barely get a mention after it was kinda harped on during Erika's closed room, for example. Reading it along with someone who doesn't know what's going on at all is also beautiful, as an aside, though I don't know how y'all in Witchchat even managed with the threads. My partner is coming up with some really insane theories, some of which are actually right, (he somehow called "kinzo is actually long dead" in the middle of Episode 1, just based on him acting completely differently to Natsuhi; I'm so proud of him,) and all I can do is smile mysteriously at them all! It's torture. Really, props to Witchchat for not breaking down long ago, I truly respect your strength. (I couldn't resist taking both Shannon and Kanon's roles for myself in our read-aloud, though, as meta-spoilers as that is. He's going to be so mad when he realizes that I was intentionally having their voices be similar all along...)
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Sep 10, 2017 02:41
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Token Fembot posted:Reading it along with someone who doesn't know what's going on at all is also beautiful, as an aside, though I don't know how y'all in Witchchat even managed with the threads. My partner is coming up with some really insane theories, some of which are actually right, (he somehow called "kinzo is actually long dead" in the middle of Episode 1, just based on him acting completely differently to Natsuhi; I'm so proud of him,) and all I can do is smile mysteriously at them all! It's torture. Really, props to Witchchat for not breaking down long ago, I truly respect your strength. It was by the very existence of witchchat that witchchat could remain sane. It turns out it's a lot easier to not blurt out spoilers when you can just pop open a discord window and scream about how correct/incorrect a reader is about things.
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Sep 10, 2017 02:57
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KataraniSword posted:It was by the very existence of witchchat that witchchat could remain sane. It turns out it's a lot easier to not blurt out spoilers when you can just pop open a discord window and scream about how correct/incorrect a reader is about things. I remember when Witchchat went absolutely insane when Witchcore brought up The Portopia Serial Murder Case. Don't know what we would have done without it.
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Sep 10, 2017 03:25
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I knew about 'Yasu did it' being a meme due to the Dangan Ronpa lp, but I didn't know if R07 knew that having the 'butler did it' was a cliche for Western audiences. Probably, now that I think about it since characters like Sherlock Holmes and Agatha Christie's Poirot are well known. Yasu in this game is a double cliche. Triple cliche if being the secret heir to the fortune counts. I'm sure that there's ground for a quadruple.
EagerSleeper fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Sep 10, 2017 |
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Sep 10, 2017 03:52
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Ryukishi definitely knows about the Western cliches, given how EP 7 began + the inclusion of Knox and SSVD. There are definitely a lot of classic cliches here (the secret love child who is actually the heir to the kingdom for one) but cliches are only bad when they don't have thought process behind them. Yasu's story defies its cliches by focusing in on their struggle.
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Sep 10, 2017 04:39
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EagerSleeper posted:I knew about 'Yasu did it' being a meme due to the Dangan Ronpa lp, but I didn't know if R07 knew that having the 'butler did it' was a cliche for Western audiences. Probably, now that I think about it since characters like Sherlock Holmes and Agatha Christie's Poirot are well known. Yasu in this game is a double cliche. Triple cliche if being the secret heir to the fortune counts. I'm sure that there's ground for a quadruple. Yasu can be described as a collection of tropes in general (childhood marriage promise woes being the most egregious) that I usually find incredible uninteresting or off-putting, but Ryukishi managed to make it so that, instead, Yasu is more or less my favorite fictional character of all time. Go figure.
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Sep 10, 2017 05:42
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Ryukishi07 in an interview posted:Many hints will appear in EP5 as well. When the pivotal answers come out in EP6 and EP7, I suggest that you replay starting from EP1 and enjoy how early on the foreshadowing begins. Like when you get a new key in an RPG, and return to the very first dungeon to get a treasure chest behind a door that you couldn’t open before(laughs). That’s an especially fun part of Umineko. Even now, there are many things you’ll understand if you go back to EP1. But there are still many treasure chests waiting in EP1 that can’t be opened yet. After playing EP5, EP6, and EP7, you might go back to EP1 and think “This is a huge clue” or “It’s almost obvious!” There's an absolute ton of foreshadowing and clever hints in the early episodes that I'm just dying to point out, but I don't really want to take away the fun of doing it by yourselves.
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Sep 10, 2017 05:45
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Raelle posted:Yasu can be described as a collection of tropes in general (childhood marriage promise woes being the most egregious) that I usually find incredible uninteresting or off-putting, but Ryukishi managed to make it so that, instead, Yasu is more or less my favorite fictional character of all time. Go figure. For me love triangles are fictional poison to me. And yet!
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Sep 10, 2017 05:52
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I looked at my notes, and decided that the things I have to say would better be served by waiting until after the Tea Party. So, back in we go.
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Sep 11, 2017 13:20
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 ...When I came to, all was silent. The lights were dim. And yet... the room felt large. Where on Earth... is this...? I was sitting in what seemed to be a very short sofa. It was very constricting, and there seemed to be several more of them off to each side of me... Once I noticed that, I realized that I was in a theater.  I don't know how long I've been here. And, more importantly, I don't know where this is. Beatrice's funeral ended, everyone went back to the mansion, and... And after that, my memory gets fuzzy, and I can't recall anything else. Then, I was surprised to notice the presence of another person. Apparently, I wasn't the only one sitting in the audience seating of this vast theater. The sound had come from a seat to the side of mine. When I looked, I saw a girl sitting several seats off to my left. It was a face I had never seen before. Who is she? She looked like a high-schooler or a college student, about the same age as I was.  She groaned. Apparently, she had just woken up... I didn't want to scare her, so I decided to introduce myself first...  "...Hello." Apparently, she was equally surprised to find someone other than herself here. She jumped when she heard my greeting.  "...Who the hell are you?" "I feel the same way. It seems that neither of us is here of our own accord." "...Is that... the One-Winged Crest...?" "Huh? Do you recognize this crest?"She looked suspiciously at the One-Winged Crest emblazoned on my collar. Her stare, which was unmoving but not openly hostile, wasn't exactly pleasant for me. "Allow me to introduce myself first. I am Ushiromiya Lion." "Ushiromiya, huh? What?" "Lion. Written as '理御', but pronounced 'Lee-on'. Pretty strange name, don't you think?" "...No stranger than mine. But I'll have to apologize. I don't know who you are." "That's hardly surprising, since I don't know you either." "That's not what I meant. Who are you? There's no one like you in the Ushiromiya family." "And why are you so sure? Do you have something to do with my family?" "I'm a member of the Ushiromiya family." "...But that's..."She showed me her left sleeve... and the crest of the One-Winged Eagle emblazoned upon it. "...I regret having to ask the same question, but who are you? I've never seen you in the Ushiromiya family." She spat out those words and seemed to be complaining about something.  "Ange. I'm Ushiromiya Ange. Rudolf and Kyrie's daughter." "What?! A, Ange-chan...?! But you're supposed to be six years old..." "...I was six during the year of the final family conference on Rokkenjima. Now I get it. So, you're a person from the year 1986. I'm 18 years old. And I'm from the year 1998." "I, in other words, you're the Ange-chan... of 12 years in the future...?" "I'm glad you believe it. But, unfortunately, I don't have a clue who you are. Who are you? Who are your parents?" "My father is Krauss. Natsuhi is my mother." "That would make you Jessica onee-chan." "Jessica is my little sister." "...What's going on? Wasn't Jessica onee-chan an only child...?"By this point, I was starting to figure out the situation this Ange had come from. She's probably from the world where I awakened as a witch... the world where Lion doesn't exist.  "...Are you... a witch...?" "Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm just an ordinary human. What I just told you is something I heard from the witch called Bernkastel-san." "...Bernkastel? That one with the long, blue hair and the gloomy face...?" "Y, yes. That probably describes her, I think..." "...In other words, I've been forced to play along with another witch's farce. Just where is this place?" "I only woke up a second ago myself. I wonder where this is." "It looks like a theater. Are we supposed to watch a play, or something?" "...I'm really not in the mood now. Let's look for an exit." "...You haven't noticed yet? Look." "Huh? Ah, these are..." I finally noticed. Both of my wrists and ankles had chains attached to them. As long as I sat here, I had enough slack that I could move about a little, but it looked like there wouldn't be nearly enough for me to get out of this place.  "...When did... Who would do something like this...?" "...Once a witch has made you her piece, you'll be their plaything forever. There's no way to escape."Ange crossed her legs, making the chains clank together. She realized that no amount of struggling could have broken those chains. Getting panicky wouldn't accomplish anything. She must have had nerves of steel. "What do you mean, a witch's piece?" "...It's like being their slave. I made a deal, once. I said I wanted to see my family, to bring them back from that day. In exchange for making that a possibility, that witch turned me into a witch's piece. At least the witch kept her promise. I was able to see Onii-chan again." "...You mean Battler-kun...?" "Well, I wasn't even able to tell him who I was. And, in exchange for that short bit of time, I'm now trapped inside the witches' toy box for all eternity. Looks like you are too. Did you make some sort of contract?" "N, nothing of the sort..." "Did you ever ask a witch to grant a wish for you?" "Never. She taught me what a miracle my existence is. That's all." "...Either way, neither of us is getting out of here. Okay, witches! What kind of show do you have for us this time?! Have we moved from reading aloud to theatergoing? Am I supposed to watch someone else read aloud this time, or what?! If that's it, then start it up. I'm bored enough as it is!"Ange yelled this to the pitch-black stage. Her voice reverberated throughout the theater, but no one gave an answer... ...No, someone did. And that was also in a voice that rang out across the theater. However, that voice sounded theatrical, as though someone was announcing the start of a play.  "...Whose voice was that...?" "That old hag. It was Aunt Eva's voice." "What does she mean by 'what happened on that day'?" "...She's talking about the 4th and 5th of October in the year 1986. The day of the final family conference on Rokkenjima." "In other words, today." As a prelude to the family conference, Beatrice's funeral was held... "That's a surprise. So, you've come here from October 4th, 1986? Tell me. What happened during those two days...?!"The answer she seeks is inside the cat box. All I can tell her about is my close call with a sad life. However, I doubt that explanation would satisfy her. Then, a pillar of bright light pierced the stage.  Of course, Ange didn't recognize her. She looked suspicious, apparently wondering who in the world this was. However, even I felt as though something was wrong. Didn't she settle all of her regrets in that funeral a short while ago, before being sent off into the next world...? She stood all alone in the narrow beam of light in the center of the stage, and the expression on her face was lifeless. The light began to grow brighter and brighter. It shone more and more fiercely on her, until it became blinding just to look at her. The world was enveloped by a light so bright that we couldn't open our eyes, enveloped by a sound like wind or television static... and our minds began to go blank...  BGM: Doorway of Summer  "It must be a pain to take care of all these. Pretty easy for us though, just looking at 'em." "*giggle*. I agree. We've got to thank the people who take care of them for us." "But it is a bit lacking in grace. I prefer the way it used to be, before Nii-san decided to pile so much on." "I did like the way the old ones looked." "Uu-! I love roses! I'd like them even more if they didn't have thorns! Uu-!"  "It has been a long time for you. Both you and this garden have changed so much." "Ah, let me introduce you! This is Kanon-kun, one of our servants! This is the first time you've met Battler, right?" "...Pleased to meet you." "You can just call me Battler! Nice to meet you!" "Shannon's here too, today. Remember when we used to play together?" "Ah... Shannon-chan! I'd totally forgotten... That really takes me back! How's she been doing?!" "She keeps getting more and more beautiful. You should say hi to her later on." "Shannon and George onii-chan are really good friends! Uu-!" "Maria, shhh! That's a secret!" "If you would, everyone, allow me to guide you to the guesthouse."After enjoying the lovely welcome provided by the roses, the relatives followed Gohda in the direction of the guesthouse...  BGM: Witch in Gold (cembalo) Rokkenjima. A world without Lion. The day of the Ushiromiya family's family conference. The mysterious letter that Maria read aloud after dinner, just as she had been told to. The writer of the letter claimed to be the Golden Witch Beatrice and challenged the family. Try and solve the riddle of the epitaph. Otherwise, I will take everything. It was Beatrice's announcement of the game's start, the same as the usual game's. Had an unknown person appeared, related to the problem of the inheritance's distribution? Where was the 20 billion yen worth of gold hidden? What was the purpose of this letter? For what goal had it been written? Who on Earth is this Beatrice? It was the usual dinner on October 4th, where several bits of suspicion and paranoia intertwined.   "...Shannon. Take the children to the guesthouse. We will move straight on to the family conference." "Y, yes. As you wish..." "Beatrice, the Golden Witch... What a fascinating letter you've sent us..." "She's telling us to solve the epitaph...? Ridiculous. That gold belongs to us. Why would we ever give it up to some outsider...?!" "...If we could just find that gold, we'd all be happy. No one'd have to lose anything." "Let's go, everyone. Looks like it'll be adult time from here on out..." "...Give me a break. Sounds complicated." "Come on, Maria... Let's go..." "Beato's ceremony has begun... Kihihihihihihi..." "Okay, everyone, I shall guide you to the guesthouse..." BGM: None "Probably a replay of one of the old games, or else an entirely new game. In all the games, October 4th happens in pretty much the same way." "...A new game? You mean, a tale that hasn't appeared in any of the Fragments so far?" "There's no way they'd go to the trouble of chaining us down if they just wanted to show us a game we already know. It's probably a new game. That means there should be a Game Master. Who is it? That witch? Bernkastel...?" "I... can't imagine so. Clair should have vanished already. There should be no need to spin up a new tale..." "Beato's game board was hijacked by those evil witches long ago. Even Beato is nothing more than a piece in their games." "...Just who is behind this... and what are they after? What do they want to show us...?"Before this tale began, Clair definitely appeared on the stage.  However, didn't she entrust everything to Will, who solved all of the riddles? There should be no need for her to make new riddles... ...In that case, is Bernkastel using this tale to test me...? Along with Will, I have at least touched the deepest depths of this tale... and understood the culprit's heart. So, even if an entirely new tale presents itself, I should be able to see through the riddles. Is that... what my role is...? Is my role to teach Ange about the truth of this tale...?  "I have several theories. Still, none of those can give a conclusive answer. The truth is always inside the cat box. I can't say anything for sure."In this world, Ange is absent on this day. So, it's only natural that she doesn't know what happened. However, at the very least, I do know who the culprit is... and what they were trying to do... "...Yes. I think I've finally understood my role in this." "What do you mean?" "Apparently, you're here as a theatergoer, and I'm here to explain things." "And what are you supposed to be explaining?" "I know... who's behind the crime that's about to occur." "What did you say...?" BGM: Golden Sneer  "I agree. If they'd already solved it, they could just take it. There'd be no need to challenge us to solve the riddle." "It's a prank by one of the servants. They're hoping to pick up the scraps from the celebration if the gold is found." "I cannot imagine that any of our servants would do such a thing..." "...Or, maybe one of us sent the letter, pretending to be a servant." "If that's it, you're the most suspicious one. You schooled Maria-chan on her part and made her read the letter, didn't you?" "I, I wouldn't do that...!" "Give that a rest, Eva. We can't jump to conclusions. Isn't this the time for us all to stick together?" "That's right. The aim of this strange letter is probably to disrupt our unity. The more we let it affect us, the more things go the way of this 'Beatrice' who sent it." "Kyrie-san's right. Wouldn't it be best to simply ignore a letter like that from the start?" "That is what I have been saying the whole time. This sort of prank is not worth considering!" "Yes, that's it exactly. If a couple improbable claims for damages get ya flustered, you'll never be able to sell anythin'!" "My husband's right. This is a child's prank, and taking it seriously is just a waste of time. If someone really wanted to shake up the inheritance issue, they'd come forward boldly instead of using something this roundabout." "You've got it right there. Someone probably wants to make us think there's another person trying to make demands about the inheritance, when their real goal is just to pick up the scraps." "...I wonder if they'll ask for some hush money in exchange for staying out of the inheritance issue." "If that's the case, they should have written it into the letter already." "And the letter is just a challenge, telling us to try solving the epitaph or else hand over everything." "The culprit is tryin' to make us solve the epitaph's riddle! Nothin' more, nothin' less." "So, it's simple. If we let this letter scare us, we lose." "Yes, I agree. After that big mysterious show, like something out of a mystery novel, we've all gotten a bit too interested in this. Hahahaha. It seems we're all taking this too seriously." "But who did it? Such an aggravating thing to do." "If it wasn't a servant, then one of us must have written it. I'm not naming names, of course." "St, stop it. I really know nothing about this...!" "Settle down. Anyway, what this letter says does make a bit of sense. All of us need money. And, if possible, we need it right away. No one here has any objections to that, right...?" "...Of course not. Who'd object to money or love?" "We don't know when Father's inheritance will come to us. However, the gold of the epitaph is different. If we find it, we could just split it then and there." "In a sense, it's even closer to us now than the inheritance is." "Assuming we can solve the epitaph..." "...Everyone here has tried solving it on their own, yes?"Kyrie asked the room at large, and everyone wordlessly nodded back.   "...True. We've all been greedy and tried to go it alone. However. We've already reached a decision about how we'll split the gold up if it's found. And about acknowledging Aniki as the successor." "Though you demanded quite a lot in exchange." "...I wonder if we can solve that epitaph... if we pool our efforts and work together..." "Two heads are better than one. And here, we have seven." "Today, we reached a general agreement about the inheritance problem. Why not take a shot at the epitaph for a bit of fun on the side?" "Nice idea. Let's give it a try and call it a break." "...Ridiculous. There is no..." "Take it easy. Just think of it as a game. Let's have Gohda-san bring us something cool to drink. We can take a break and all play with riddles as a big, happy bunch of siblings for once." "Hmmm. Well, the night is long. It would be, at least, more productive than pointless inquiries regarding Father's health." "I'll ring up Gohda-san. He can bring us something." "Let's have tea and sweets. Oh, and a map of Taiwan." BGM: Hope   "G, George-sama..." "I swear to love you all my life. Not just while we're young. I swear to love you and keep you happy until we get old and go to our graves." "...Are there any lies in your words?" "Nope, none. I'm confident in my resolve to love you and build a happy household together with you." "And what would this happy household be like?" "Well, it will be full of happiness. We'll have a house, with a car and a garden. And one dog. The garden will be a vegetable garden. The kids will run around, and we'll smile down on them from the balcony. That's what our typical future Sunday will look like." "That... would be wonderful..."  "Shhh! Why are you so drat loud?! Maria'll wake up...!" "I, I see. So that's it... Now that you mention it, they seemed to have a pretty good mood going on there. That's right, we're about the age where you fall in love." "We've changed a lot in the last six years. George nii-san used to be a bit unreliable, but he isn't anymore." "That's what I thought. George-aniki's got one of those 'air of dignity' things around him."...But still, Shannon-chan and George-aniki. That's a bit unexpected. They played together often enough six years ago, but I didn't think they were that close.  "...Well, six years is a long time." "These six years have been huge for all of us." "Yep. A lot has happened to me these six years, and to be honest, I've forgotten almost everything about Rokkenjima." "And I'd forgotten almost everything about you too." "Now that really hurts, ihihi~!"Talking together like this, it felt as though we'd been teleported six years into the past. Those six long years, so long that I forgot almost everything. And yet, it's coming back to me, bit by bit. Shannon-chan. Six years ago, you were part of our group, and we played together a lot, didn't we... Back then, I think I might've... liked Shannon-chan. That was the age when we were all overly self-conscious, in love with love. Bittersweet memories of jokes involving melodramatic, flippant words.  "...That takes me back. I think I remember saying all kinds of stuff that I'd be way too embarrassed to say now. Gyaaah, just remembering it is making my face go red!" "Hihihi. Shannon might be a scatterbrain, but her memory's incredible. Guess I'll just have to ask her all about your dark, embarrassing history." "Qu, quit it. That was six years ago, so give me a break...!"...I see. So, Shannon-chan is going out with George-aniki. What am I thinking? Could this be... jealousy? I didn't really think about it until now, but that thing Shannon-chan and I had back then... that was probably my first love. Well, it's not like I have any right to be jealous, after forgetting the whole thing until we met again.  BGM: Witch in Gold (cembalo) "Father still chews areca nuts from time to time in memory of Taiwan. Apparently, he got hooked on that instead of smoking when he was young." "...But there are probably several rivers there with sweetfish swimming in them." "There are several mountain streams which are famous sweetfish fishing spots. It seems sweetfish will live anywhere as long as the water's clean. We're completely stuck." "Could it be some nearby creek that Father used to play in as a kid? He said sweetfish, but maybe we're looking for somethin' more like carp." "...Or, it could be some sort of metaphor. The river isn't necessarily a river with water flowing through it." "What do you mean by that...?" "Well now... Who knows?" "Kyrie has a point there. Isn't it a bit too early to be sure that Taiwan is this homeland, or that this sweetfish river is a river with water flowing down it?" "If we look at it that way, we're just stuck again. The more you think about this riddle, the harder it seems." "...That's it. This is just a riddle. Kyrie-san is right. We need to be flexible in our thinking..." "If we're looking for a river near Taishou, that would have to be Danshui River..." "Are you even listening?! We just said that it might not be the kind of river with water flowing down it! Is there any proof that that river is a sweetfish river?!" "Y, you're right... I, I'm sorry..." "...Well, it probably did have sweetfish in it. After all, 'danshui' does mean freshwater. Makes sense that a freshwater fish like sweetfish would be swimming in it." "Sweetfish are freshwater fish. So, a sweetfish river would be a freshwater river. Is that how we get Danshui River? Hahahaha, quite the word game." "Now that's an interesting theory. Let's advance our reasoning a bit further. As you travel down the river, you will see a village. What's the name of the town at the mouth of Danshui River?" "...It says 'Danshui' here." "I went sightseeing in Danshui. It was a calm and gentle harbor town. Beautiful sunsets." "Did you find 'the shore the two will tell you of'?" "...Not really. It doesn't ring any bells." "I guess the beloved hometown wasn't in Taiwan. It might have been Odawara after all." "If we can't discount any possibilities, then we won't get anywhere. We can't even get past the first line of the epitaph." "Quiet, you're distracting me! ...It has to be Taiwan. Father wouldn't describe any other place as 'beloved'!" "...That is one thing we can agree upon. To this very day, Taiwan is the homeland of Father's heart." "It's probably best if we don't spend too much time on the first line. I'm going to take a look at the other lines. Just a quick peek, starting at the first twilight." "...Me too. I'll leave the sweetfish river to you, Aneki, and have a go at the second half." "On the first twilight, offer the six chosen by the key as sacrifices... How mysterious." BGM: Lie-alaiaa Eva suddenly muttered. All of the others spun around to look at her. Eva was flipping through the pages about Taiwan with incredible force, then found the page she was looking for and slammed the book open so hard that it almost tore. The whole time, they had opened to the page with place names. As far as the overall mass of information went, this seemed the most useful page to start from. However, the page Eva opened to was very limited in the scope of its information. It was... a map of railway lines.  "...As you travel down the river, there's a village... a village. !! There it is, the village!" "Wh, what are you talking about, Eva? Explain yourself." "Quiet!! There's a shore too, and a mouth...! I'm not sure what it means by 'the two', but there definitely is a village and a shore and a mouth...!! This is it... This is definitely the village where the key to the gold sleeps...!!" "C, calm down...! Explain it so we can understand too!" "...The Danshui Line? I see. So, the sweetfish river was actually a railroad called the Danshui Line?" "Well, I doubt there are any sweetfish swimming there..." "Sh, she's right...! There's a village, mouth, and shore...!!" "...As you travel down the river, you will see a village. True, that's the only station on the Danshui Line that has the character for village in its name." "I see, it's like a code pointing towards this station's name..." "This has to be it! There's no doubt...!! We just need to look a bit further, then we'll definitely find out what 'the two who speak' means...!! L, look!! This is it! This is it!" "The town near the station with the same name has a mouth in the second character. That makes a total of two mouths in Kirigan. Are those 'the two who speak'?" "I, incredible, Nee-san. This has to be it..." "Does this mean that the key is hidden somewhere in this town of Kirigan...?" "I wonder. The whole riddle so far has been a word game. If so, isn't it likely that the sleeping key is also a word game?" "I agree. On the first twilight, the key selects six sacrifices, right? So, it's hard to imagine that it's actually something key-shaped...!" "...Whoo. This is getting... drat interesting..." "Offer up the six chosen by the key. Let's think of a key that's somehow related to this! And let's break down this name, 'Kirigan'! I'm absolutely sure that this is a word game! It has to be...!! Think, everyone!!" BGM: None  "...It's about time for us to head back. I'm keeping Kanon-kun waiting." "You're right. And I've probably kept Jessica-chan and Battler-kun waiting." "It brings back good memories. Remember when the four of us used to play together? It was a lot of fun back then too." "To me, it's a lot more fun now. Because I get you all to myself." "*giggle*. Oh, George-sama."They laughed at George's melodramatic line. However, George's laugh seemed just slightly forced.  "...George-sama?" BGM: Voiceless  "A complex...?" "Like Uncle Rudolf, he's lively, interesting, and just full of energy. He's much more attractive than I am. I can tell how much he outshines me when we're together." "That's not true. You're very accomplished and attractive. You aren't worse than Battler-sama in any way." "...Really?" "Yes. Really." "The truth is... When I first heard that Battler-kun would be coming back this year, I felt bad about it." "Why...?" "Is that how it was...? Wasn't it just Battler-sama making fun of me one-sidedly..." "...Of course you looked good together. There's no doubt about it. I was sure that you two were going out." "That never happened. You're thinking too much..." "...I really am pathetic. I was afraid that I'd hand you this ring and you'd refuse." "Why is that? Why should I refuse your ring, George-san?" "Because... Battler-kun came back. I was afraid that you might still like Battler-kun... and that, now that he was here, you wouldn't have any use for me."  "...You're right. Sorry. What's got me so shaken, I wonder. I'm probably still jealous of him, now that he's gotten even cooler these past six years. How pathetic." "No, it's okay. Those feelings are a sign that your love for me is so strong, you don't want to give me up to anyone. If you're worried about my feelings switching to Battler-sama, just love me all the stronger so that such a thing would be ridiculous. Love me so much that I don't have time to think about other men." "I'm scared too. I'm sure you'll meet many women in the future who are much more attractive than I am. Or, I might not meet your expectations, and you might tire of me. It scares me to think that I might not be able to grasp hold of your feelings for the rest of my life." "There's no need for you to be scared of that. I swear to love you all my life." "But even though I swore the same thing, you're having trouble believing it just because Battler-sama came back."As Shannon giggled, George finally realized that his own lack of confidence had hurt her... "...I've fallen for a wonderful man named Ushiromiya George-san. And this is a man who has sworn to love me all his life, and who has given me a ring as a sign of this oath. With this ring here on my ring finger, I can give an honest confession." "Sure." "Yes, as you said, I did like Battler-sama six years ago. I think I probably liked him more than you then." "However, that was six years ago. Now, things are different. In these six years, I've sorted out my feelings for Battler-sama, and cut myself off from them along with the memories of the past. Now, I exist only to love you."Shannon spoke clearly and strongly... George gave a single, uncertain laugh. It was probably the same sort the George of six years ago had made.  
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Sep 11, 2017 13:23
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Is this the timeline where everyone finds the gold and less people get killed? Or maybe it's showing that in a world without Lion, no matter what, everyone dies?
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Sep 11, 2017 13:49
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"However, that was six years ago. Now, things are different. In these six years, I've sorted out my feelings for Battler-sama, and cut myself off from them along with the memories of the past. Now, I exist only to love you." alert alert please love yourself yasu
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Sep 11, 2017 14:23
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You could say that she's being a romantic about it... But she's being serious, isn't she?
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Sep 11, 2017 14:24
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Hm. So a while back, the thread was comparing Umineko to Utena. Can anyone who knows Japanese tell me whether this is a deliberate reference to the Shadow Girls on R07's part or whether the translation team is just independently referencing Utena's localization here? witchcore ricepunk posted:"However, that was six years ago. Now, things are different. In these six years, I've sorted out my feelings for Battler-sama, and cut myself off from them along with the memories of the past. Now, I exist only to love you." Well, I mean, as the tale has been presented to us, this is kind of literally true and arguably is why Shannon is furniture rather than human. She's only of multiple distinct parts of Yasu, each of which exists for a distinct purpose. Although it is upsetting that Shannon, who seems to be the closest to what Yasu considers a "core" persona, has had that "purpose" change so many times; at her inception, Shannon existed to be "the perfect servant" and, arguably, "the person Yasu wanted to be," and I suppose you could argue that the latter purpose has remained true, which does kind of suggest that "the person Yasu wants to be" is sadly narrow and dictated by external influences. That said, Shannon's "furniture" status seems to be relatively new. Maybe when Yasu met Kinzo, Beatrice became the "core," and Shannon simultaneously became "furniture." I'd noticed that early on in Yasu's story, Shannon called herself human, so the shift to furniture had to occur at some point, and that seems the obvious one. So maybe it's Beatrice's self-image, rather than Shannon's current narrow self-image, that should now be regarded as more representative of Yasu's own self-image as a whole, if that makes you feel any better, WCRP...?
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Sep 11, 2017 14:43
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Confused Llama posted:Hm. So a while back, the thread was comparing Umineko to Utena. Can anyone who knows Japanese tell me whether this is a deliberate reference to the Shadow Girls on R07's part or whether the translation team is just independently referencing Utena's localization here? Probably not. I don't remember Lion's exact phrasing offhand, but the "Do you know" in Utena was "gozonji kashira" and in this context it would be something more like "shitteru".
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Sep 11, 2017 14:47
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| # ? May 29, 2024 00:28 |
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Oh, god. No. No no no no no... I sense the other shoe dropping, and through the power of magic, it has turned into a meteor hurtling toward earth. How happy it starts, how dignified and refined, everyone working together instead of sniping at each other and separating to die... but if this were a happy story, who is the teller? And why are Lion and Ange brought together to hear it? And why the chains? The heart is a queer and contradictory thing isn't it? The logical voice within it knows that this is a story, digital ink on a screen that was written years before my eyes have read it, and it assures me in its infuriatingly calm and placid tone that I could not change the direction of this story or what happens in it even if I wished to-which I don't, really; it's a great story. And yet... there is the emotional voice, nearly seizing my monitor and shaking it, demanding that Ange run, break her chains, stare at Lion and hold their gaze, do anything at all besides watch this screen and what is about to happen- even as there is a cold dread beneath that energy that is almost certain that even if she tore off her ears and put out her eyes... she would still see.  There is cruelty coming. It has to come, because we were told that this was a story about love, and I believe it is... but it is also a story about cruelty- the cruelty that is shown to us and that we show to others in turn by the things we do and leave undone, without even meaning to... and how a lifetime of such cruelty can nestle in the heart, and bleed it dry of anything good or prosperous- how it can taint everything one might otherwise do. Pursue the golden witch as you may and think them the ultimate villain of this piece... but for all the monstrosity she shows, there is a blue-haired sadist waiting in the wings... and by god, I think I hear her music...
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Sep 11, 2017 14:53
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