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MrYenko posted:This is going to be etched on GMs gravestone. In GM's defense (wait why am I doing this), they only rolled the Bolt out nationwide within the last two months, and there's some indication they literally can't build more than 30,000 or so this year.
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Sep 8, 2017 19:00
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Agronox posted:In GM's defense (wait why am I doing this), they only rolled the Bolt out nationwide within the last two months, and there's some indication they literally can't build more than 30,000 or so this year. Funny you mention it but Car and Driver reports the Bolt is on pace to outsell every EV except the Model S. They sold 11,670 in its early-EV markets through the end of August (12,249 if you include December 2016 when it first went on sale). I don't think the 30,000 number is a hard limit but more the goal since that's when most of the EV credits to automakers kick in. Edit: Powershift posted:They probably aren't marketing it because there is no profit in it. They don't want to compete with their own profitable models. Anybody who wants an electric car will know about it, anybody who just wants a car might not, and that's the way the like it. There's two issues here in that GM has (and long had) a real problem sucessfully marketing their latest engineering (just look at the atrocious Volt ads from when it rolled out). The other issue is the profit/mass market appealing in an EV. But this is more of a chicken and egg problem. The real issue (aside from cost) in an EV is the infrastructure to support EVs. Until charging stations become as ubiquitous and prominent as gas stations (or some battery/charging tech that allows for fully charging EVs in as little as 10 minutes), EVs will remain a niche. However, by making an EV that has mass market appeal, they grow the niche which further grows demand for charging infrastructure which makes buying EVs more appealing which makes marketing them easier, etc etc etc. I feel like we've been having this same conversation since the Leaf, Model S, and Volts first rolled out. It's always been "that's a cool EV/car/piece of engineering but it can't compete with the ease of filling up a tank of gas at the corner BP." And while that's true, it's also true that my local Kohls has two EV chargers outside and there's a nascent but real EV charging network in development. The change we've all been looking for is happening now. It's slow and there still isn't a Johnny Electron's station on every corner but it's happening. Thwomp fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Sep 8, 2017 |
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Sep 8, 2017 19:07
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There's also the federal credit of $7,500 that phases out once you sell 200k cars and most of the makers including Tesla are over 100k and close to 150k.
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Sep 8, 2017 19:18
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the biggest problem with the bolt is that they stupidly used the best all electric name on a car that wasn't all electric that and it's being sold by GM dealers who don't give a gently caress about EVs
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Sep 8, 2017 20:08
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Powershift posted:Don't forget everything American from the 70s that gets 8mpg. Electric Jeep or rock crawler. Hear me out. When I was a kid I played with RC rock crawlers, what I learned was that I could drive a fast RC truck for 10 minutes on the battery, or I could drive a rock crawler for over 4 hours on the same battery. Super reduced gearing and extra low speeds is the reason. It just takes less energy. If you've ever been offroading for real, you know that most of the time the engine is just idling and you're rolling along in low range. Only once in awhile do you really need anywhere near the full power of the engine, even a Toyota 2.2L has more than enough grunt. The serious off road guys have a truck and trailer to bring the rig to the rocks anyway. You could have infinitely more modular torque from 0 RPM and a seamless transition from forward to reverse. Plus silent running lets you hear the tires better.
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Sep 8, 2017 20:35
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Range would be an issue, right? I feel like a Volt drivetrain hybrid rock crawler would be great. You get all the electrical benefits, but you can dump gas in it if you're in the bush somewhere, and you can drive out to where the good trails are without problems.
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Sep 8, 2017 21:16
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Range would be an issue, right? I feel like a Volt drivetrain hybrid rock crawler would be great. You get all the electrical benefits, but you can dump gas in it if you're in the bush somewhere, and you can drive out to where the good trails are without problems. It would be for a very custom rock buggy or offroad rig, the type that you tow on a trailer because they're not street legal or geared so low they can barely go 40mph. Vitamin J fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Sep 8, 2017 |
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Sep 8, 2017 21:21
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Ah, yeah that makes sense. I'd still be worried about running out of juice, though.
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Sep 8, 2017 21:23
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Thwomp posted:The change we've all been looking for is happening now. It's slow and there still isn't a Johnny Electron's station on every corner but it's happening. It really is, Royal Farms is a gas station chain that does food sort of like a Wawa or Sheetz. All of their new stations in this area have a DC fast charger attached (Chademo and CCS), it's a pretty smart way for them to attract drivers who will stop for 20-30 minutes and buy a sandwich or whatever while their car charges.
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Sep 8, 2017 21:51
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I feel like the weight of the batteries needed for a useful rock crawler would be prohibitive, but I have no idea really.
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Sep 8, 2017 22:41
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Throatwarbler posted:I feel like the weight of the batteries needed for a useful rock crawler would be prohibitive, but I have no idea really. If you're going to gear it for 5mph crawling, you don't really need much battery capacity. A good lightweight setup for some reason is the Kia Soul EV. Someone's doing a AC Cobra conversion using those batteries and a Tesla motor. https://electrek.co/2017/01/17/classic-427-shelby-cobra-tesla-electric-motor-kia-soul-ev-battery-pack/ ' The 30kwh version weighs in at 290 kg. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kia_Soul_EV
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Sep 8, 2017 23:24
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Rock crawlers aren't typically worried about light weight, either. Light weight parts are broken parts. Short of going nuts with a full tube frame buggy, nearly any mod I do to my Jeep to make it a more capable offroader will also make it heavier. There is nothing light about a GM 14-bolt axle with 40"+ tires on it.
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Sep 8, 2017 23:37
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I agree that a rock crawler would be a good fit for electric. If wheel motors ever get consumer level, you could do crazy suspensions. Figuring out a way to manipulate the position of the batteries/center of gravity would be helpful too. I wouldn't think you'd need much of a battery unless you intend to drive it there as you are only using enough power to keep a little torque applied or to move at low speeds.
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Sep 8, 2017 23:53
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Fully independent hub motors would be neat, but even mounting them directly to solid axles could be very interesting from a packaging perspective. If you could cram a motor either inline in the axle tube or directly on top of it driving the stub shaft, you get rid of a lot of dangly, expensive, and fragile bits like engine/transmission oil pans, transfer cases, and driveshafts. With four motors like that you wouldn't even need ring and pinion gears, differentials, or lockers.
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Sep 8, 2017 23:58
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IOwnCalculus posted:Fully independent hub motors would be neat, but even mounting them directly to solid axles could be very interesting from a packaging perspective. If you could cram a motor either inline in the axle tube or directly on top of it driving the stub shaft, you get rid of a lot of dangly, expensive, and fragile bits like engine/transmission oil pans, transfer cases, and driveshafts. With four motors like that you wouldn't even need ring and pinion gears, differentials, or lockers. On a related note, I won't be surprised if the next Tesla Roadster goes for a 4 motor design with torque vectoring.
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Sep 9, 2017 00:28
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Thwomp posted:
I feel like this is missing the main appeal of an EV for me personally - that being the fact I'd never have to visit a petrol station (or charger that isn't at home) with it for my normal commuting use. Being able to just plug the thing in to a wall socket in my garage is a huge plus in my books.
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Sep 9, 2017 00:51
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I for one welcome our electric overlords
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Sep 9, 2017 01:01
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Powershift posted:Don't forget everything American from the 70s that gets 8mpg. Aaaaand now I want a mid-70s Fleetwood 75 with like double the normal amount of battery and 100 miles range.
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Sep 9, 2017 01:58
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dissss posted:I feel like this is missing the main appeal of an EV for me personally - that being the fact I'd never have to visit a petrol station (or charger that isn't at home) with it for my normal commuting use. I know at least for my Volt Im at 2500 miles and I've only used the gas engine like 4 times, 2 of those were because I forgot to plug in. I've used maybe 2 gallons of gas and probably won't need to visit a gas station for thousands of more miles. I'm just shocked that the Volt is pretty much the only EV that has an unlimited range with its gas engine, it's such a seamless design and works so well. I would get upset at myself for letting the gas engine kick on, until I realize its pulling down ~45 mpg.
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Sep 9, 2017 02:12
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eyebeem posted:Better car != More desirable car Either way, I think when you're comparing a Lotus against a long-nosed Jaguar, more desirable is the same as better, because they're both kinda poo poo cars by any other metrics. They're not practical, they're not affordable, they're not competitive racecars, what do they have going for them if not desirability?
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Sep 9, 2017 02:26
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fuuuck yeah, they just put in two EVgo CHAdeMO/CCS + 2 level 2 chargers in at REI Denver downtown. I'm going to abuse the poo poo out of it during my NCTC period!
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Sep 9, 2017 02:30
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Phuzun posted:How cold is your winter there? In North Dakota, I lose around half my range to the heater and reduced battery capacity (before any highway speed losses). So 60kwh might be the very bottom of what you'd need for that commute if you only charge at home. Might be worth waiting until it's pretty cold to look at them, see if it will meet your needs. That's not a bad idea, as our winters do get pretty cold. Generally hover around -10 Celsius but some days can get down to -30 or so.
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Sep 9, 2017 18:23
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VERTiG0 posted:That's not a bad idea, as our winters do get pretty cold. Generally hover around -10 Celsius but some days can get down to -30 or so. Electrics are really good winter vehicles though, as always it's a question of range. Never been in an ICE vehicle that warms up as quick and you can drive immediately. Been driving in Blizzaks for 4 years, my miles per kwh is pretty bad. Gonna try XIce3 as the tread is done, read decent things about the LRR performance for being a good winter tire.
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Sep 9, 2017 18:41
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Jimong5 posted:I know at least for my Volt Im at 2500 miles and I've only used the gas engine like 4 times, 2 of those were because I forgot to plug in. I've used maybe 2 gallons of gas and probably won't need to visit a gas station for thousands of more miles. I'm just shocked that the Volt is pretty much the only EV that has an unlimited range with its gas engine, it's such a seamless design and works so well. I would get upset at myself for letting the gas engine kick on, until I realize its pulling down ~45 mpg. The best moment of Volt ownership is when you stop getting upset at yourself for using the range extender, and just realize that you dont use gasoline at all for like 90% of your driving.
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Sep 9, 2017 18:44
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Jimong5 posted:I know at least for my Volt Im at 2500 miles and I've only used the gas engine like 4 times, 2 of those were because I forgot to plug in. I've used maybe 2 gallons of gas and probably won't need to visit a gas station for thousands of more miles. I'm just shocked that the Volt is pretty much the only EV that has an unlimited range with its gas engine, it's such a seamless design and works so well. I would get upset at myself for letting the gas engine kick on, until I realize its pulling down ~45 mpg. Stuff like this shows why plugin hybrids are such a nice gateway drug to EVs. It's like you have a very short range EV which you nonetheless get by with fine, and every time you start the gas engine is a visit to a DC charger.
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Sep 9, 2017 19:01
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I've been trying to eek serious ev range out of the cmax on my commute lately. It's about 75 miles round trip, fairly flat and 80/20 highway/surface streets. No traffic which means a lot of battery crushing freeway miles. I'm pretty happy with this from 5.2kWh 
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Sep 10, 2017 16:50
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Man, dealers are blowing out C-Max Energis (Fusion Energi too) up here, adding on the rebate from the province can bring them down to $20-23k CAD for a brand new SE.
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Sep 10, 2017 17:36
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We like ours. Bought them both cheap off lease primarily because they came with carpool access stickers here in California. I paid $14k USD or so for my 2015 loaded SEL a year ago.
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Sep 10, 2017 18:06
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China's Fossil Fuel Deadline Shifts Focus to Electric Car Race https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-09-09/china-to-ban-sale-of-fossil-fuel-cars-in-electric-vehicle-push
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Sep 10, 2017 22:08
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https://twitter.com/pluginadventure/status/906805251365318656 A Nissan Leaf completed the Mongol Rally
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Sep 10, 2017 23:09
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Regular Car Reviews does the Chev Bolt https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-gDhq8VKsQ
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Sep 11, 2017 12:01
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The family of the guy killed in a Tesla when a semi pulled out in-front of him released a statement ahead of the NTSB ruling tomorrow. https://globenewswire.com/news-rele...shua-Brown.html
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Sep 11, 2017 18:22
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I wonder how much Tesla paid them to write that. Show us the birth certificate!!!
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Sep 11, 2017 18:38
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blugu64 posted:I wonder how much Tesla paid them to write that. Show us the birth certificate!!! Probably flew him out and paid for his hotel to try out the 3.
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Sep 11, 2017 18:51
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Subjunctive posted:Probably flew him out and paid for his hotel to try out the 3. Shouldn't they have disclosed that in their statement?
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Sep 11, 2017 19:31
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I bet the firm is secretly funded by Elon through a group of shell corporations so they don't have to disclose it.
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Sep 11, 2017 19:44
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eyebeem posted:Shouldn't they have disclosed that in their statement? It's scandalous.
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Sep 11, 2017 19:45
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Well other groups whose family members were killed by Tesla disclosed their paid accommodations, and furthermore
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Sep 11, 2017 19:46
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Big Electric 
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Sep 11, 2017 19:47
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drgitlin posted:Holy gently caress, do you want me to post a PDF of my expense report or something? We got the invite, just like electrek and everyone else. When they said "do you need us to arrange travel for you?" I said "why, no, thanks for the offer but we're paying for travel. I do need to know the hotel rate though, please." This is because on stuff like this the OEM block-books a bunch of rooms. It was $189/night for one night at the Marriott in the Ren Center, FWIW. We paid for my flight, but I did get a ride from the aiport. Stop the presses. I apologize for going about it in such an accusatory manner. Ars Technica posted:Commenter: Are junket disclosures not a thing anymore? drgitlin posted:This is because on stuff like this the OEM block-books a bunch of rooms. It was $189/night for one night at the Marriott in the Ren Center, I did get a ride from the aiport. Do you see the difference between these 2 statements? (especially the special rate for the rooms) I faced these same challenges when running my medical tech company, you have to disclose any expenses paid for in a press junket. I won't go into the food they provided, beating a dead horse and all. The Sicilian fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Sep 11, 2017 |
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Sep 11, 2017 20:34
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