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The easiest way to start a Doctor Who story about trans issues with your best foot forward would be to get a trans person to write the thing.
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Sep 11, 2017 13:57
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Fil5000 posted:If they try to do something on transgender issues, it'll end up being another Zygon story written by Harness and he'll just make everything worse. Jamie Mathieson's reddit AMA pretty strongly indicated that they aren't hiring writers the way they used to. I'm not sure if they're looking at a writer's room format as was rumored, but there's no guarantee virtually any writer is getting asked back.
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Sep 11, 2017 14:15
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FreezingInferno posted:The easiest way to start a Doctor Who story about trans issues with your best foot forward would be to get a trans person to write the thing. I'm trying, damnit! It's hard, but I think I've got something. The folly we've had so far in these ideas is trying to fit them into preconceived Who villains, that on the surface seem viable but can only really manifest it in a way that reflects negatively. What we need is effectively a whole new enemy to shine this onto, and I'm pretty sure I just came up with one. Psychic aliens, that latch onto specific people and become manifestations of their suppressed, unacknowledged thoughts and feelings (I'm basically cribbing the way the Persona games do Shadows, I admit). For a lot of people their reflections are dangerous, untrustworthy, and possibly resentful; the embodiment of the mental hoops that led someone to cheat on their wife, the total disregard for others that let a leader claw to the top, that sort of thing, and those are the chief antagonists of the story. On the flipside, though, we have a cool-headed, confident and understanding character turn up suddenly, who nobody recognizes but seems to be on the right side of it all. That gives plenty of parallels to the Doctor for the writers and actors to have fun with, but it's not the final point of the character. The big reveal, of course, is that they're the manifestation of the suppressed feelings of a fairly constant supporting character, unrecognizable because they're transgender and never accepted that fact about themselves, but helpful because they always wanted to. The generalized intended message, and toss a Doctor-speech or two in to drive it home, is that people hurt themselves when they refuse to admit their own faults, insecurities and emotions. Clear relevance to trans issues, and very blatantly on their side of that, but carries meaning to others as well. ...Yes, I do realize that a good amount of this idea is comparable to The Rebel Flesh/The Almost People. I don't think that's necessarily a problem, and I feel like it's doing something new anyway.
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Sep 11, 2017 14:30
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Won't the very first Thirteenth Doctor episode technically be about trans issues? (Personally, I'd like to see the new Doctor just get straight back into Doctoring without even bringing the subject up in a "well, it was bound to happen eventually, no biggie" way, just to wind up the "b-b-but the Doctor can't be a GIRL/it's political correctness gone mad!" brigade even further, but I can't see the writers passing up the potential for some wacky post-regen "comedy". I just hope they hit the rest of the episode out of the park to show that yes, the Doctor is now a woman, and she's still going to be the same hero who beats the bad guys and saves the world.)
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Sep 11, 2017 16:10
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Btw, Payndz, I have found that The Champions is a lot better than I was led to expect. In fact, I like it better than Department S and kind of wish Peter Wyngarde had been put in this one instead. 
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Sep 11, 2017 16:26
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Payndz posted:Won't the very first Thirteenth Doctor episode technically be about trans issues? I would not put money on odds that a regeneration episode turns out well. I mean some have, but hoo boy some haven't.
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Sep 11, 2017 16:49
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Chokes McGee posted:I would not put money on odds that a regeneration episode turns out well. Like, two have. Three if you can get past Robot's awful special effects
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Sep 11, 2017 17:24
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One benefit of, presumably, getting a new companion is that whoever it is will never have known the previous version of the Doctor, which will spare us from at least some of that "you're not the Real Doctor" stuff
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Sep 11, 2017 18:26
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It's a shame that neither the Sixth nor Seventh Doctors had regeneration episodes at all.
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Sep 11, 2017 18:28
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Burkion posted:Like, two have. Spearhead from Space The Eleventh Hour ?
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Sep 11, 2017 18:48
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Burkion posted:Like, two have. It's like a film project made by elementary school children who don't have access to expensive CGI technology It's Narm, which is kinda par for the course
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Sep 11, 2017 19:08
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Payndz posted:Won't the very first Thirteenth Doctor episode technically be about trans issues? I CANT BELIEVE I ALWAYS LEFT THE SEAT UP WHILE DRIVING THE TARDIS
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Sep 11, 2017 19:10
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CommonShore posted:Spearhead from Space Power of the Daleks is a great serial and is definitely one of my favorite Dalek serials. Spearhead from Space is decent. I think Robot is great, goofy special effects and all. The Christmas Invasion gets a lot of flak, but it's actually a great Christmas episode. The Eleventh Hour is incredibly good. So really, it's just Castrovalva, The Twin Dilemma, Time and the Rani, and Deep Breath, and the latter of those just has a really rough first half. I'd say post-regeneration episodes have a slightly better than half record, which is better than Doctor Who on average.
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Sep 11, 2017 19:18
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Bicyclops posted:Power of the Daleks is a great serial and is definitely one of my favorite Dalek serials. Spearhead from Space is decent. I think Robot is great, goofy special effects and all. The Christmas Invasion gets a lot of flak, but it's actually a great Christmas episode. The Eleventh Hour is incredibly good. Ah I forgot Power was a regeneration episode. I would have put it on the list without hesitation. I think of Christmas Invasion as mediocre (which means that I'm happy to watch it because it's better than many episodes of Doctor Who, which is a show I like).
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Sep 11, 2017 19:21
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castrovalva is baffling. why is it like that? everything about it is bad!
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Sep 11, 2017 19:23
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corn in the bible posted:castrovalva is baffling. why is it like that? everything about it is bad! Because Bidmead, basically.
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Sep 11, 2017 19:34
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Bicyclops posted:So really, it's just Castrovalva, STATIC, STATIC, and Deep Breath, and the latter of those just has a really rough first half. Sorry, I didn't quite catch some of that.
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Sep 11, 2017 19:44
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corn in the bible posted:castrovalva is baffling. why is it like that? everything about it is bad! Actually it is good
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Sep 11, 2017 19:51
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What's all this about Castrovalva not being goodCerv posted:Actually it is good Well that's what I thought!
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Sep 11, 2017 20:24
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Yes Castrovalva is good. Unlike The Web Planet. I re-watched it last night and Jesus that bleeping sound effect that gets used over and over and over again. I think I'm insane now.
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Sep 11, 2017 20:58
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Castrovalva has a really cool atmosphere- they do a great job of making it feel like a real place even when it turns out not to be. And there's the wonderful moment of a little girl helping the Doctor remember that 3 comes after 1 and 2.
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Sep 11, 2017 21:02
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marktheando posted:Yes Castrovalva is good. It's very imaginative and I like the bee characters and the way they move and talk, but in retrospect it was probably best not to film the entire thing with a camera lens smeared with vaseline and a repetitive beep noise.
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Sep 11, 2017 21:49
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Bicyclops posted:It's very imaginative and I like the bee characters and the way they move and talk, but in retrospect it was probably best not to film the entire thing with a camera lens smeared with vaseline and a repetitive beep noise. They're butterfly people, which is why they're relative to the caterpillar people 
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Sep 11, 2017 23:01
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Payndz posted:Won't the very first Thirteenth Doctor episode technically be about trans issues? I'm of two minds about this. On the one hand, yes, it would probably be a good idea from a writing and audience perspective to do that, but on the other hand, if the Doctor's now a woman because why not, then what's the point? Why even bother? Too, I think things Chibnall and Whittaker have said imply that the show will not ignore the change, and there's some deeper meaning to it. I think you're right that the first regeneration episode might be in territory close to trans issues. It might not be a HUGE deal that the Doctor changes gender in their latest regeneration, but the Doctor has lived so long male that it's sort of absurd to expect there won't be any period of adjustment. There's reason to believe that, although Time Lords are significantly less lovely about gender issues, "male" and "female" still mean something to them. It also shouldn't be ignored that while the Doctor will be physically female, and maybe mentally so (?), she will be newly so, and having lived as a man for so long, will be pretty unaware of some things, and won't truly understand some experiences until she's in that sort of situation. If the writers make the Doctor a mouthpiece it won't work, but if the Doctor's lack of personal knowledge is highlighted, it could be both funny and a good teaching moment. In line with that, gender is performative, and girls and boys learn, almost from birth, how to perform those roles. The Doctor is an alien, but among humans he has functioned, often, as a human man, albeit a strange one. He pulls rank, shouts people into doing what he wants, and stares people down. The Doctor in a woman's body remains the Doctor, but the reactions of people change. Anybody here seen the Tilda Swinton movie Orlando? That's about the only comparison point I have for this situation that makes sense.
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Sep 12, 2017 00:19
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Generally Time Lords are very fluid on gender, which should be very obvious for why. They have enough distinction between men and women to designate them as Lord and Lady, though Lord is fine for a catchall in my opinion. The Master is the only Time Lord with specific views on gender from Time Lords, that gets brought up with frequency. And as I've gone into it in the past, it's a very toxic, very sexist view. So they do have the ability to be lovely about gender identity if they want to, but the Master is literally a psychopath so you know.
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Sep 12, 2017 00:24
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I think the Master's hot takes and jokes about changing gender are enough on the subject, and we could do without zany situations and forced jokes about the swap in the regeneration episode, but,Chokes McGee posted:I would not put money on odds that a regeneration episode turns out well.
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Sep 12, 2017 00:37
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It will be revealed that Missy was actually the Fourteenth Doctor
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Sep 12, 2017 00:47
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Bicyclops posted:Power of the Daleks is a great serial and is definitely one of my favorite Dalek serials. Spearhead from Space is decent. I think Robot is great, goofy special effects and all. The Christmas Invasion gets a lot of flak, but it's actually a great Christmas episode. The Eleventh Hour is incredibly good.
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Sep 12, 2017 07:31
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Burkion posted:Generally Time Lords are very fluid on gender, which should be very obvious for why. They way they're used in the show is as a bunch of uncompromising, xenophobic classists obsessed with tradition, which is actually kind of great. It means that we can assign any backwards ideas on gender that happen to leak into the show from the time period it's written (e.g. how much of the leadership seems to be men, proportionally, and how some of the early Doctors definitely have some ideas about what men can do and what women can do) to their society, whereas when the Doctor (or any other renegade) gets it right, it's them rebelling against that society. One of the things I liked about rewatching Hartnell was watching him learn compassion over the first season. It sort of feels like Barbara, Ian, Susan and Vicki made him the person that he was. I like the idea that the Doctor comes from a society that has its own ideas and issues with gender, and in exploring space and time, he has learned and adjusted his worldview and behavior. I think it lets the show evolve to consider the Doctor (and the society from which he comes) flawed, but learning.
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Sep 12, 2017 15:40
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I'm probably not going to word this well, but I kind of feel like the worst (and also laziest) way to go with the regeneration would be to play it as "Male character wakes up in female body". You know the kind of thing, pantomimed exaggerated patting at crotch to confirm lack of testicles, a quick look down the front of the shirt to confirm breasts, makes a couple of "Well, at least now I might be willing to ask for directions! I'm going to need a bigger wardrobe!" jokes etc. It would be easy to play for cheap dated "comedy" and I would like to think they wont go anywhere near that direction. To me it shouldnt be "Male character wakes up in female body" any more than you could say "Matt Smith woke up in Peter Capaldis body". That isnt how we've seen The Doctors regenerations work, when he became Capaldi (or Smith, or Tennant) then Capaldi woke up in Capaldis body, just for the first time. I'm kind of hoping that they just dont make more of a mention of it than another item on a checklist "No attack eyebrows. Woman this time. Kidneys... Actually not too bad. Hair hasnt been this long in a while. Who do I have to kill to be ginger, just once?" then the Doctor gets on with her day. We've seen other time lords regenerate and change gender without it being a particularly big deal, it would seem weird to me if it is a big deal for the Doctor.
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Sep 12, 2017 17:11
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SiKboy posted:
That seems to be the prevailing perspective of the thread, that the closest they get to a joke about it should be something like "Oh, that's different... my eyebrows are normal!"
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Sep 12, 2017 18:20
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Yeah, they've already done the obvious jokes when the General regenerated, best to leave it alone.
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Sep 12, 2017 18:25
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SiKboy posted:Kidneys... Actually not too bad. The Moffat era seemed to mention kidneys a lot. It was weird.
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Sep 12, 2017 19:24
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Sonic heels to replace Sonic sunglasses
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Sep 12, 2017 19:28
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The_Doctor posted:The Moffat era seemed to mention kidneys a lot. It was weird. Yeah, honestly it was funny the first time, but then got a bit old and would need at least 2 more doctors to circle back round to funny again. I was just grasping for things to be on the checklist more than actually wanting the kidneys to get a shout out again.
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Sep 12, 2017 20:23
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I honestly hate that Twelve's first word was 'Kidneys!'
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Sep 12, 2017 20:49
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Found this interesting. Now as you may or may not know, the Terry Nation sci-fi series "Blake's 7" replaced a cop show set in present day (1970s): https://twitter.com/MakingBlakes7/status/907667629875265536 BBC gave a sci-fi show 50 pounds for sfx. 50!
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Sep 12, 2017 21:05
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Davros1 posted:BBC gave a sci-fi show 50 pounds for sfx. 50! Yeah they had to borrow sets and costumes from Dr Who and there's a surprising number of production staff and actors shared between the two shows. In some ways Blake's 7 has even more kitsch cred than classic Who.
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Sep 12, 2017 21:33
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SiKboy posted:"Matt Smith woke up in Peter Capaldis body". I dunno, I think that's pretty much exactly what it is.
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Sep 12, 2017 22:04
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Mymla posted:I dunno, I think that's pretty much exactly what it is. Its not, its "I'll always remember when The Doctor was me". Its shown as, in a real sense, the death of the previous doctor ("I don't want to go"), not just a new face and wardrobe. Capaldi knew for a fact that HE was the doctor, he was just a) unsure exactly what type of doctor he was going to be and b) insecure about Clara preferring the previous version. I'd accept that in some cases the personalities of the old and new doctors are slightly blended for a short time, in universe because the doctor almost always has a traumatic regeneration, out of universe because it takes them a while to find the new "voice" for the character, but it is an immediate change. Eccleston, Tennant, Smith and Capaldi were all the doctor, but they were all different doctors in pretty much every way. Same memories, different personalities, viewpoints, likes and dislikes as well as the obvious physical differences. This isnt so much different actors playing the same character as it is different actors playing different characters who happen to share the same life and experiences. As an aside, I dont know why I'm referring to them by actor rather than number, but I am and I'm not going back and changing it.
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Sep 12, 2017 22:36
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