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Judge Schnoopy posted:Your head is so far into your corner of IT and you're absolutely unwilling to think about anything else. Where it (THE CLOUD!!!) does apply to SMB is less and less need for VPN Tunnels, phone QoS, and Multi-site connectivity. I'm not talking about SMB taking their poo poo and moving it to AWS, but more the poo poo they use being cloud based. Why would a 100 person SMB want to run an email server when they have Google or Office 365 and can pay an MSP a small amount (compared to a FTE) to manage their email? No need to have a SQL server, RDS/Citrix/View, App servers, etc if the software you use to do your daily work is web based and hosted. No need for your accounting software to require a deployment of Sage/Whatever when someone will host it for you, or that software becomes hosted/web based itself. File server, replaced with Sharepoint/Sharefile/Box/Dropbox, whatever. If everything you run to do your business is hosted, why does every office need to be interconnected to every other office, or to a datacenter, when everything they run is accessible via an internet connection and a login? ... All that said, I still think it's stupid to say that THE CLOUD is going to kill off Network engineers. TheFace fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Sep 13, 2017 |
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Sep 13, 2017 17:41
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Punkbob, just curious how old are you roughly
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Sep 13, 2017 17:50
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TheFace posted:... All that said, I still think it's stupid to say that THE CLOUD is going to kill off Network engineers. I think it was overstated, but the idea that the middle tier of networking folks (and IT staff in general) is going to contract pretty severely over time is probably correct. You will have cable monkeys and network architects, but network operations folks aren't going to be nearly as necessary because things like SDN, SD-WAN, and XaaS are going to obviate the need to pay a lot of money to someone to babysit the routers and switches.
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Sep 13, 2017 17:53
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There were actually a lot of decent effort posts in the last two pages. Punkbob definitely got some strong opinions, but I don't disagree with anything he's said. I don't think that he's trolling at all and definitely shouldn't be getting one or two line dismissals in what is a decent conversation.
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Sep 13, 2017 17:54
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In terms of connecting the client devices to the Internet so they can then go out and use these new cloud services, where are we saying that is going to go? Is it going to be MSPs throwing Meraki hardware at sites and letting it set itself up as the security role moves to the end device, or are things going to be simplified almost to the level of a home router so it doesn't matter? Maybe people just get access to a wireless network with their managed office and don't give a poo poo any further than that? Does LTE reach the point where people don't bother trying to build LANs any more, since every device is now a mobile one? I don't really have a reasoned opinion on it at this point as I don't have enough perspective on things. I wouldn't be surprised if the responsibility for end device access fell to the same team that keep things like conference rooms working at the moment, in the same way that phones fell into the laps of the IT department.
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Sep 13, 2017 18:28
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Kashuno posted:Punkbob, just curious how old are you roughly Almost 30, have been in IT for 10 years last month, worked my way from below helpdesk to now being called a SRE with a detour into security, and worked for startups, 3 letter agencies and now a major companies Ecommerce platform.
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Sep 13, 2017 18:33
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big money big clit posted:I think it was overstated, but the idea that the middle tier of networking folks (and IT staff in general) is going to contract pretty severely over time is probably correct. You will have cable monkeys and network architects, but network operations folks aren't going to be nearly as necessary because things like SDN, SD-WAN, and XaaS are going to obviate the need to pay a lot of money to someone to babysit the routers and switches. I wonder how long until we start to see the contraction begin. As someone who's done traditional "Wintel" System Administration I haven't felt it (despite even working in Azure 24/7) and even the MSPs I've worked have hardware refresh upgrades scheduled months out.
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Sep 13, 2017 18:38
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Thanks Ants posted:In terms of connecting the client devices to the Internet so they can then go out and use these new cloud services, where are we saying that is going to go? Is it going to be MSPs throwing Meraki hardware at sites and letting it set itself up as the security role moves to the end device, or are things going to be simplified almost to the level of a home router so it doesn't matter? Maybe people just get access to a wireless network with their managed office and don't give a poo poo any further than that? Does LTE reach the point where people don't bother trying to build LANs any more, since every device is now a mobile one? Tab8715 posted:I wonder how long until we start to see the contraction begin. As someone who's done traditional "Wintel" System Administration I haven't felt it (despite even working in Azure 24/7) and even the MSPs I've worked have hardware refresh upgrades scheduled months out. Vulture Culture fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Sep 13, 2017 |
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Sep 13, 2017 19:14
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Dick Trauma posted:As long as there's a power button on something I will have a job in I.T.
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Sep 13, 2017 19:14
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anthonypants posted:It's because networking gear doesn't come with power buttons, that the networking field is dying out. 
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Sep 13, 2017 19:15
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I look over to the power button on the Juniper SRX range with fondness, safe in the knowledge that button is keeping me in a job
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Sep 13, 2017 19:39
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Can we all just agree that the real IT job that's going to go away is Storage Admin? Seriously how do Storage specific admins still have jobs??
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Sep 13, 2017 20:07
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TheFace posted:Can we all just agree that the real IT job that's going to go away is Storage Admin?
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Sep 13, 2017 20:10
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TheFace posted:Can we all just agree that the real IT job that's going to go away is Storage Admin? If you have a lot of on-site storage, you will absolutely have at least one storage admin. There's a lot of reasons to still have on-site storage too, if you are a large enterprise in certain sectors.
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Sep 13, 2017 20:18
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I wish I hadn't missed all that. I work for a large company in a conservative industry and it's hilarious to see the range of approaches our developers take. We have everything from "this worked fine on the hardware it was on in 2003, and we haven't changed our software since then, so we sit in a fetal position and continue to blame all our woes on the mean IT people who made us look at virtualization, SAN storage, and OSes that aren't Solaris 8" (these people can bite me, except that I have to show them professional courtesy) to "we have a working prototype of our application on AWS and it relies on AWS tooling to work, but someone says we have to compare costs to an on-prem solution, so please tell us what you would charge to duplicate all of AWS' functionality in our DC (we can't tell you what it would cost to do something we can't do, so tell your mgrs you are doing the cloud right and must be allowed to do your job). We have teams that release several times a week and teams that are stuck in quarterly waterfall releases but think they're agile because they talk about sprints. To get to the original question that sparked all this, I love RHEL support. We hardly ever need it but when we call and say "we have a major outage, we need a RHEL kernel engineer on this conference line in 15 minutes," we get one, and whoever shows up tries to be helpful and doesn't make excuses. Of course, they are substantially aided by the fact that RHEL has been very stable for us and rarely has anything to do with the outage.
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Sep 13, 2017 20:25
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CLAM DOWN posted:If you have a lot of on-site storage, you will absolutely have at least one storage admin. There's a lot of reasons to still have on-site storage too, if you are a large enterprise in certain sectors. I was mostly joking. And I forgot I was talking during the whole cloud conversation so people would assume I meant "put all storage in the cloud". I get the need, it always just seemed strange to me someone or a team of someones would specialize in storage... I know in larger companies things get siloed off a lot, but storage is painfully simple to me, especially as more vendors abstract the need to explicitly configure everything for a specific volume/LUN for performance/capacity/availability reasons. I can teach a network or whatever admin to zone in FC, and most places I've seen if they are using iSCSI or FCoE the network portion is handled by the network team anyway so really all they (Storage Admins) are doing is slicing up storage into volumes based on need and that's about it.
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Sep 13, 2017 20:41
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The dedicated storage admin is disappearing but will never completely vanish as long as conservative industries keep buying things like Hitachi and VMAX and NetApp. If you need a dedicated storage admin just to create volumes and LUNs and zone things you're probably doing things really inefficiently though.
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Sep 13, 2017 20:48
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Put all storage in the butt
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Sep 13, 2017 20:48
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Some sectors/enterprises still can't put everything in the cloud, and hundreds of PB means a lot of on-site storage and a need for an admin.
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Sep 13, 2017 20:51
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CLAM DOWN posted:Some sectors/enterprises still can't put everything in the cloud, and hundreds of PB means a lot of on-site storage and a need for an admin. Healthcare for instance. We have a lot, lot of storage onsite and at our hospitals.
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Sep 13, 2017 20:59
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CLAM DOWN posted:Some sectors/enterprises still can't put everything in the cloud, and hundreds of PB means a lot of on-site storage and a need for an admin. It's got nothing to do with the cloud, it's simply that array management, particularly from newer vendors like Pure or especially Tintri, is so dead simple that there's no need for someone to babysit them. You can get a PB of storage in 2U now. The amount of storage isn't the determining factor in how much management is required, it's down to number of managed controllers and number of managed logical containers (volumes/LUNs), and for most places the number of managed logical containers is very small because they're just building big datastores and dumping everything in them. If you've still got lots of physical servers that require array based storae then things are a little different, but even then I'd argue that if things are set up so that you're creating new luns or volumes on a daily basis then you're doing things the wrong way, or you're badly in need of automation and orchestration, or both. Someone still needs to manage storage, but more and more that's becoming the job a consolidated infrastructure team that does storage and compute and backup/DR. YOLOsubmarine fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Sep 13, 2017 |
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Sep 13, 2017 21:00
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big money big clit posted:It's got nothing to do with the cloud, it's simply that array management, particularly from newer vendors like Pure or especially Tintri, is so dead simple that there's no need for someone to babysit them. You can get a PB of storage in 2U now. The amount of storage isn't the determining factor in how much management is required, it's down to number of managed controllers and number of managed logical containers (volumes/LUNs), and for most places the number of managed logical containers is very small because they're just building big datastores and dumping everything in them. If you've still got physical presence then things are a little different, but even then I'd argue that if things are set up so that you're creating new luns or volumes on a daily basis then you're doing things the wrong way, or you're badly in need of automation and orchestration, or both. Someone still needs to manage storage, but more and more that's becoming the job a consolidated infrastructure team that does storage and compute and backup/DR. This says it much better than I did 
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Sep 13, 2017 21:03
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mattfl posted:Healthcare for instance. We have a lot, lot of storage onsite and at our hospitals. Since when can’t healthcare run in the cloud? Honestly I’d trust a hospital running stuff in AWS/GCP that was set up the right way morso then a legacy site. I’ve seen both and the regulations around the cloud as well as the granularity of permissions across the entire stack make it more easier to centrally manage security for both configuration and alerting in my opinion. If a hospital is forward thinking that it considers the cloud an option, I’d take that as a signal that they have thought long and hard about the security required and holistically applied that model everywhere. Now that’s most likely a pipe dream because health care IT is so bad, but if a place has considered the cloud and isn’t dismissing out of hand then maybe they aren’t. To run HIPAA in the cloud all internode communications are encrypted(natively in GCP, required by AWS’s BAA). All config management can be centrally tracked and checked against using things like CapitalOnes cloud custodian, and you can run resources that are impossible to get to without triggering alarms and alerting security so that managing things out of band requires approval. These sort of things go a long way towards maintaining a good security posture and preventing config drift.
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Sep 13, 2017 21:17
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big money big clit posted:It's got nothing to do with the cloud, it's simply that array management, particularly from newer vendors like Pure or especially Tintri, is so dead simple that there's no need for someone to babysit them. You can get a PB of storage in 2U now. The amount of storage isn't the determining factor in how much management is required, it's down to number of managed controllers and number of managed logical containers (volumes/LUNs), and for most places the number of managed logical containers is very small because they're just building big datastores and dumping everything in them. If you've still got lots of physical servers that require array based storae then things are a little different, but even then I'd argue that if things are set up so that you're creating new luns or volumes on a daily basis then you're doing things the wrong way, or you're badly in need of automation and orchestration, or both. Someone still needs to manage storage, but more and more that's becoming the job a consolidated infrastructure team that does storage and compute and backup/DR. That's fine, I'm not a storage admin and never would be so don't really care that much. Punkbob posted:Since when can’t healthcare run in the cloud? Because there is a large world outside america.
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Sep 13, 2017 21:20
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TheFace posted:Can we all just agree that the real IT job that's going to go away is Storage Admin? 
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Sep 13, 2017 21:24
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MC Fruit Stripe posted:We run PB of data, we have a dedicated storage team, they're brilliant, and they're not going anywhere. We also have PBs of data across multiple sites, and have a dedicated storage team... and while I could do their job, they couldn't really do mine.
TheFace fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Sep 13, 2017 |
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Sep 13, 2017 21:30
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TheFace posted:We also have PB of data across multiple sites, and have a dedicated storage team... and while I could do their job, they couldn't really do mine.
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Sep 13, 2017 21:38
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MC Fruit Stripe posted:We run PB of data, we have a dedicated storage team, they're brilliant, and they're not going anywhere. What do they do? What are their day to day responsibilities?
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Sep 13, 2017 21:44
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anthonypants posted:Then it's good that they keep you unoccupied so you can do other things. big money big clit posted:What do they do? What are their day to day responsibilities?
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Sep 13, 2017 21:45
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CLAM DOWN posted:That's fine, I'm not a storage admin and never would be so don't really care that much. Which is more encumbered by HIPAA like regulation that doesn’t allow you to use the AWS In Canada? Can you only buy software from Canadian companies? What about peering or transit? If your argument is that you can only use Canadian stuff I hope you audit the hell out of all the software you use. Wouldn’t want someone to slip in a backdoor. Edit: I don’t know why I bother, your superficial reason is going to be nonsensical because you are a smug pos who’s reasons are never gonna be more then what makes me right in this argument. If you’ve actually considered the cloud and eliminated it for cost reasons or whatever then fine. Or even if the aws region in CA is too new. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 13, 2017 21:47
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Punkbob posted:Which is more encumbered by HIPAA like regulation that doesn’t allow you to use the AWS In Canada? How do you think blackberry stays in business? Sole vendor to Canada
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Sep 13, 2017 21:49
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Punkbob posted:Which is more encumbered by HIPAA like regulation that doesn’t allow you to use the AWS In Canada? 
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Sep 13, 2017 21:49
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Punkbob posted:Which is more encumbered by HIPAA like regulation that doesn’t allow you to use the AWS In Canada? Actually straight up something my partner had to deal with the other day. At least for financial companies, Canadian law on the matter is that you straight up have to store all of your data in Canada. Not sure if it's only with Canadian firms, but it might well be. huuuuge pain in the rear end since not only does AWS become instantly unusable, but you can't even use gsuite, OneDrive or O365, not even loving dropbox for cloud based storage. Ironically at my job which is adjacent to pharmas we're A-OK and make use of AWS, gsuite and the like extensively.
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Sep 13, 2017 21:49
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Cat Army
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That makes it easy when it comes to decision making time.
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Sep 13, 2017 21:50
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Punkbob posted:Which is more encumbered by HIPAA like regulation that doesn’t allow you to use the AWS In Canada? Lmao looks like the people who said you're just a lovely troll or an Amazon shill were right, gently caress off.
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Sep 13, 2017 21:53
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Punkbob posted:Which is more encumbered by HIPAA like regulation that doesn’t allow you to use the AWS In Canada?
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Sep 13, 2017 21:56
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I will make a simple statement on this heated discussion Using cloud sometimes good, not using cloud sometimes good.
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Sep 13, 2017 21:59
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Is this actually DAF, but in the cloud?
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Sep 13, 2017 22:00
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Proteus Jones posted:Is this actually DAF, but in the cloud?
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Sep 13, 2017 22:01
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Kashuno posted:I will make a simple statement on this heated discussion Out of here with nuance
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Sep 13, 2017 22:03
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