|
Although I do have one question (ending C/D spoilers) Did 9S know the entire time that 2B was eventually going to kill him, or is that a conclusion he reached at some point that I missed?
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2017 18:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 12, 2024 12:02 |
|
|
Well, I don't agree with your criticism of the gameplay, but I will admit that this game's route B didn't have quite the oomf that original nier's did.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2017 18:59
|
|
|
The big problem that I had going into the game is that it is a character action RPG made by Platinum Games, and compared to the rest of their games, the combat in this game is really shallow and repetitive. Plus the leveling system leads to wild imbalances where you either faceroll everything or get one-shotted. Going in blind, in route A there's not much to suggest that there's a deeper story or any kind of thematic arc being built there, it's just presented as an action RPG, and it's just not very good at that imo. Plus a lot of the side quests are fetch quests in areas you've already been to, so it just feels like filler. Then route B is, you know, 70% the same as A. Route C is a tremendously good third act but the buildup to it was severely lacking in my experience.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2017 19:05
|
|
|
RyokoTK posted:Although I do have one question (ending C/D spoilers)
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2017 19:14
|
|
|
There is the scene toward the end of route B where 9S is in the hacking confrontation with Adam, who says "You're thinking about how much you want to **** 2B," which I just assumed was censoring 'gently caress' because it's a video game, until I read someone suggest that it's actually censoring 'kill' or 'hate' (or being intentionally ambiguous). And I like the theory, except I'm trying to imagine at what point he reached that conclusion. But then in the tower in route C, he relishes in savagely murdering the 2B clones, although that might be because he's completely off the deep end by that point. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2017 19:17
|
|
|
It's definitely the point. The idea that they would censor the word "gently caress" doesn't pan out when you consider that there's plenty of uncensored cursing going on. I don't think gently caress itself is said in NieR: Automata to notice the lack of censoring elsewhere, but NieR: Gestslt has a character dropping F-bombs like it's a blitzkrieg, including the preview trailer that plays when you start the game. I hear they did something similar in the Japanese script that works with how certain kanji can represent different concepts based on context, but I don't know enough about the Japanese script or Japanese language to offer an opinion.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2017 19:28
|
|
|
I'm just not sure that point is supported by the events in the story at that moment. If that had happened in route C instead of B, I'd buy it more. eta: Also there's a fair amount of American media that will say poo poo and rear end in a top hat but will avoid or censor the word gently caress, so it's not a really unreasonable assumption that the English translation would do the same. RyokoTK fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Sep 13, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2017 19:30
|
|
|
I'm pretty sure 9s mostly wants to gently caress 2b more than he feels those other things. He seems to like her, a lot.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2017 20:16
|
|
|
The thing is, it's really sorta both. If you do Jackass's sidequests, she finds out that the combat adrenaline the androids were designed to feel is incredibly similar to lust and love. That other E-unit you meet during the Amnesia sidequest, she had also fallen in love with her mark. The bloodlust androids feel is really not separable from standard lust itself (if it's with someone they think is like, hot, i guess). That 9S vs 2Bs fights in the Tower was really just one large violent orgy. And hell, when the machines are having an orgy that turns to violence, that's when Adam is born.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2017 20:23
|
|
|
Considering Drakengard 3 came only a few years ago and had all kinds of cussing, and also had a bizarre censorship as a joke, I think Automata's censoring was supposed to have more meaning than just plain old censorship.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2017 20:26
|
|
|
Terper posted:The thing is, it's really sorta both. I think that better explains 2B's affection toward 9S than the other way around considering 2B is the one killing 9S over and over. My takeaway is that 9S's affection for 2B is more the family component considering she's basically his only friend and companion, which is actually why I kinda doubt he wants to gently caress her. RyokoTK fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Sep 13, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2017 20:27
|
|
|
RyokoTK posted:I think that better explains 2B's affection toward 9S than the other way around considering 2B is the one killing 9S over and over. My take was that it's both because he's basically a confused teen boy.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2017 20:36
|
|
|
Well, yes.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2017 20:39
|
|
|
9S is still in combat and getting all hot and bothered with android juices. It's not like the lust is aimed at the one they're fighting, it's just a general sensation they get from the pleasure-generating chemicals, and they have to aim it somewhere.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2017 20:46
|
|
|
They're also repressed artificial weirdos who are technically only a couple of years old. My take is that everything sexual in the game is supposed to feel strange and uncomfortable anyway
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2017 21:14
|
|
|
I kinda wish they would have either gone further with the sexuality aspect or left it out entirely. The machine orgy is a really evocative and weird moment with a lot of cool implications but other than the Jackass quests and the bit with Adam, sexuality among the androids never comes up. On screen the relationship between 2B and 9S is distinctly not sexual even though it is definitely 'confused teenager' in a lot of other ways. It's probably better tonally that their relationship is on that Romeo and Juliet tack but the literal bloodlust component of the androids is one of those bizarre science fiction concepts that I wish had been explored more thoroughly.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2017 21:32
|
|
|
RyokoTK posted:On screen the relationship between 2B and 9S is distinctly not sexual even though it is definitely 'confused teenager' in a lot of other ways. It's not sexual because 2B and 9S don't even really know what that is. They know the feeling because of the combat high lust thing, but they have no concept of sex. So for all intents and purposes, it is sexual. Look Sir Droids fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Sep 13, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2017 21:41
|
|
|
How much more crazy about 2B could 9S possibly be, wtf. One reason she's the hottest of babes is so that the player could see where he's coming from.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2017 21:44
|
|
|
I'm pretty sure the only reason 2B is the hottest babe is because  wanted an anime robot babe with a cute butt to star in his game. 9S's infatuation with 2B is so much more than sexual; it's a desire for family and belonging and purpose. But like I said, I kinda wish the game had explored that struggle a little further, because I think it's an interesting concept that deserves some attention. eta: "do androids dream of electric sex" RyokoTK fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Sep 13, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2017 21:54
|
|
|
RyokoTK posted:I'm pretty sure the only reason 2B is the hottest babe is because
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2017 22:10
|
|
|
Iirc someone asked him in an interview why 2b was designed that way and his answer was just "I like looking at hot women"
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2017 22:22
|
|
|
RyokoTK posted:The big problem that I had going into the game is that it is a character action RPG made by Platinum Games, and compared to the rest of their games, the combat in this game is really shallow and repetitive. Plus the leveling system leads to wild imbalances where you either faceroll everything or get one-shotted. Going in blind, in route A there's not much to suggest that there's a deeper story or any kind of thematic arc being built there, it's just presented as an action RPG, and it's just not very good at that imo. Plus a lot of the side quests are fetch quests in areas you've already been to, so it just feels like filler. I agree that the action RPG segments are the weakest parts of the game. I’ve seen a bunch of first playthroughs of the game on Twitch, and the majority of players end up skipping a lot of side-quests because they were bored. The world building at the edges of the game is almost too subtle during a blind playthrough, and the main missions for most of the game are also pretty light on story. The gameplay of Nier:Automata has been compared to Dark Souls, but I think N:A is more similar to how Dark Souls leans on the community. I remember playing Dark Souls shortly after it came out and quitting shortly after its prologue, but the buzz around the game eventually pushed me to try it again. Nier:A also depends on glowing reviews and positive word-of-mouth to push newcomers past the slower parts of the game. After all the late-game spoilery stuff is revealed, the deeper meaning behind most of the A/B-Route side-quests is revealed. Until then, it’s too easy for newcomers to get bored and either skip important world-building side-quests or quit the game.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2017 22:26
|
|
|
It's also an absolutely baffling design choice to not let you save, at all, until after you clear the prologue
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2017 22:30
|
|
|
No Wave posted:This describes every romantic feeling. I think. Well yeah, he's experiencing the emotional concept of romantic infatuation. The accusation by Adam that 9S is lustful of 2B is what is more vague.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2017 22:46
|
|
|
Know Such Peace posted:
I was thinking about Nier:A and Dark Souls recently in another way. I wish Nier:A had the Souls invasion system. Conceptually you invade as an E model to go after rogue units, just like the YorHa Betrayers sidequest. It would have served the story as well adding a game function.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2017 22:52
|
|
|
Ainsley McTree posted:It's also an absolutely baffling design choice to not let you save, at all, until after you clear the prologue I drat near refunded the game on the spot when it crashed at the end of the prologue. 45 minutes down the drain there.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2017 22:59
|
|
|
I genuinely have no idea how the prologue can take more than 20 minutes
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2017 23:01
|
|
|
I explored the area thoroughly, killed everything diligently and watched all the cutscenes? The second time around, yeah I turboed through it quickly, especially once you know that the game doesn't really require or reward thorough exploration.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2017 23:02
|
|
|
Saagonsa posted:I genuinely have no idea how the prologue can take more than 20 minutes Die to the final boss
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2017 23:06
|
|
|
If you die in the Tower, is that an automatic game over? There are no saves in there so I imagine dying to Koshi is a solid hour plus that you lose.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2017 23:10
|
|
|
Know Such Peace posted:The world building at the edges of the game is almost too subtle during a blind playthrough, and the main missions for most of the game are also pretty light on story. Definitely this was the case for me. Route A is really just a tour for world building, but it's so vague you don't even know what you're looking for. And for me, by the time I got to C and things were clicking in place, I had just plain forgotten a bunch of the NPC interactions (the Jackass quest being one of them). All those little moments are like 15+ hours ago and they're not referenced at all in the interim. That's part of why I played through a second time, and honestly it wasn't super worth it except to play through the ending again.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2017 23:21
|
|
|
Ainsley McTree posted:Iirc someone asked him in an interview why 2b was designed that way and his answer was just "I like looking at hot women" You should, I believe, take everything that Taro-san says in public interviews with a grain of salt. The man is infamously self-deprecating. RyokoTK posted:Well yeah, he's experiencing the emotional concept of romantic infatuation. It's not really vague in the context of the game and how it firmly establishes, in multiple places, a link between love/hate, sex/violence, and creation/destruction. 9S wants to gently caress her because he also wants to kill her.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2017 23:28
|
|
|
[quote="“Look Sir Droids”" post="“476371223”"] I was thinking about Nier:A and Dark Souls recently in another way. I wish Nier:A had the Souls invasion system. Conceptually you invade as an E model to go after rogue units, just like the YorHa Betrayers sidequest. It would have served the story as well adding a game function. [/quote] I agree. There just isn’t a lot of game left after the story is finished. I hope the next Yoko Taro game includes some form of pvp. I also hope the next game either drop the leveling system entirely, or make it more like DS with damage output being primarily weapon-dependent.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2017 23:30
|
|
|
Vermain posted:wants to gently caress her because he also wants to kill her. At that point in the game, why does he want to kill her? Is it because he also wants to gently caress her? That seems like an odd red herring considering he gets a reason to want to kill her later. e: "Red herring" may be a wrong word choice but the sexual implication seems poorly placed when there is a more clearly stated motive for his love/hate of 2B after he finds out that Yorha is a sham and 2B is compelled to murder him over and over RyokoTK fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Sep 13, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2017 23:33
|
|
|
RyokoTK posted:If you die in the Tower, is that an automatic game over? There are no saves in there so I imagine dying to Koshi is a solid hour plus that you lose. Nope, iirc the whole zone counts as a save area and it checkpoints you generously
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2017 23:50
|
|
|
lol what a fuckin novel idea
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2017 23:53
|
|
|
RyokoTK posted:"Red herring" may be a wrong word choice but the sexual implication seems poorly placed when there is a more clearly stated motive for his love/hate of 2B after he finds out that Yorha is a sham and 2B is compelled to murder him over and over The statement works vice-versa, as well. Imagine lusting after someone that you cannot ever have because of the circumstances of your lives. You begin to enter into a weird state where the object of desire is also an object of hatred: a constant, teasing reminder of your failure. More diegetically, it's implied that 9S manages to either repeatedly figure out why 2B is with him early on (as in The Memory Cage), or that the data relating to that somehow never gets fully wiped, but that he's too in love with her to ever say it to her face. Consider that, as an S-type, he has no reason to learn how to use weaponry if he actually buys the reasoning that 2B is there to protect him... so why has he programmed himself to be able to? RyokoTK posted:lol what a fuckin novel idea Well, think of it in terms of story: what is the Tower except a massive siphon of information that's being saved?
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2017 00:09
|
|
|
Vermain posted:
This was a potential rationale I reached as well, yeah, but it isn't ever stated on screen that I know of, so it either required a pretty big conjecture by the player, it's stated in game somewhere that I didn't see, or it's wrong. the A2 scene where this is actually stated is deliberately ambiguous so that's kinda why I was asking to begin with. I mean in ending E you can kind of reach any conclusion you want so it could very well be an unanswerable question. quote:Well, think of it in terms of story: what is the Tower except a massive siphon of information that's being saved? Putting a save point in the middle of the factory would have been a nice thought is all.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2017 00:19
|
|
|
RyokoTK posted:This was a potential rationale I reached as well, yeah, but it isn't ever stated on screen that I know of, so it either required a pretty big conjecture by the player, it's stated in game somewhere that I didn't see, or it's wrong. The actual position of the save point outside the factory is such a troll too. The whole time you were separated from it by a simple chain-link fence.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2017 01:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 12, 2024 12:02 |
|
|
I see no indication that 9S resents 2B at all. He just likes her a lot, as he should, cuz she's hot.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2017 01:18
|
|