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Dr. Fishopolis posted:I don't know if you should ever watch it. That's sort of like falling asleep right at the end of episode 17 and never watching 18. You have a very different experience of that movie than most people. Maybe I'll just have to perform a sex magick ritual with Laura Dern and wake up a different person so I can get a fresh take on it. btw Coop performing a sex ritual with Diane sounds like some loving 90s usenet fan fiction. BUT HERE WE ARE
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Sep 14, 2017 02:48
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here we are
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Sep 14, 2017 05:19
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where is this???
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Sep 14, 2017 05:34
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How's Annie?
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Sep 14, 2017 05:53
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So do white horses represent Judy looking at things? I saw a white horse in FWWM and it made me wonder if that's the horse that is the white of the eyes.
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Sep 14, 2017 08:38
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I have to say that I was always fascinated by the presence of the White Horse. I've always felt like it could symbolize... so many things. The horse first appeared before Maddy was murdered. Sarah Palmer, obviously drugged, is crawling down the stairs or in front of the stairs by the living room, and just before she zonks out she sees this spotlit hallucination of a massive white horse looming above her. The skipping of the record is the only sound, and Leland/Bob is already primping like a creep in the mirror nearby. The next time we see the White Horse is during FWWM and chronologically earlier. After drinking the drugged milk her husband gives her (I never noticed that Leland forcibly makes her drink all of it, talk about a lie agreed upon). So as she is falling asleep in bed (this is the night before Laura's murder) she once again beholds a Pale Horse, this time in her bedroom. It once again is lit by a spotlight, and vanishes just as she passes out. A couple other cool things I noticed while closely watching this FWWM scene: Leland gives Sarah the drug in a glass of milk, which is very white. I noticed while Sarah drank the milk that her bedside lamp is made of white porcelain and in the shape of an owl! So there is not only a big white horse, but a small white owl in that room. Now... I'm pretty sure most of us Twin Peak nuts are familiar with The Log Lady intros (brief Lynch-directed introductions he made when Bravo first ran TP in syndication with Margaret Lanterman using poetically opaque imagery), and one of the more compelling and straightforward she says before one episode is "... Woe to the ones who behold the Pale Horse." I'm willing to bet a lot of us are also somewhat familiar with The Book of Revelations, which is worth reading even if you're a godless heathen for the insanely creepy and bizarre imagery. The pertinent quote from Revelations: Revelations posted:And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. You can even see similar language echoed in what Margaret said. So, all that stuff both circumstantially and literally would make the interpretation of the Pale/White Horse as representing death - in Sarah Palmer's case, the sign of an impending death that will very soon occur. We only observe her witnessing the horse while she is under the influence of whatever drug Leland/Bob gives her when he does his dirty deeds. But I honestly think there's more to what the Pale/White Horse means than simply impending death or doom. I always had initially viewed the White Horse as metaphoric of Leland/BOB's presence and his repeated abuse of Laura. As Sarah is passing out from the drug (which on some level she is fully aware was given to her by Leland) she is almost... disoriented enough that she is no longer remembering to forget all the horrible poo poo that she represses. And it appears right in front of her and right above her, looming and snorting and stamping its foot, this gigantic horse in her home that she constantly pretends is not there. Kind of like "The Elephant in the Room" - but Lynch is deepening and extending the metaphor by making it "The big Pale Horse in the room", because it's not a normal everyday thing that Sarah is constantly pretending does not exist. I'm actually starting to wonder if the White Horse is meant to represent something deeper, but I'm fairly confident about my basic read on this. When I saw the White Horse in Carrie Page's house, I figured that it was a similar reminder that she is ignoring the big huge important thing directly in front of her (Judy in this case). It's a little like the unacknowledged rotting murdered corpse.
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Sep 14, 2017 12:15
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Some dude claims that during a q&a Lynch said the past season took 5 years to make and that it's too early to say anything about season 4. We won't see anything in the next 2-3 years. Also when asked about Audrey he said "What do you think happened to her? "
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Sep 14, 2017 13:12
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People saying the Roadhouse songs add nothing to the story are crazy. I've been listening to the album non stop and nearly all of the songs for me really contextualise and put the whole ending into perspective, (particularly Shadow, No Stars and Wild West). To me it seems like the ending is Cooper saving Laura, but at the expense of stepping out into the unknown (the Wild West) and being thrown into a world where he no longer understands the rules and is basically going to be helpless against the forces of evil/Judy etc. Which works really well as either an ending or to be continued.i
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Sep 14, 2017 13:19
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I still think the world he traveled to was some close analogue of our real world. Yes, Twin Peaks exists as a town in that world that Dale was exploring in Episode 18, but I just... feel like the intent was for the characters to burst out of that Glass Box. I really love The Glass Box as a metaphor for Twin Peaks and for television in general. I love that that it devolves into sex on that one occasion. Because we all know what it means when you ask someone over to "maybe hang out and watch some netflix together". That's like, one of the clearest and easiest and most comfortable euphemisms for intimacy/sex that we have today. But anyway, I can't get past how much Dale's overlaid image staring out at us in the climax of Episode 17 feels like... Well, like Dale Cooper is in the "glass box" of our television set and staring out at US - the audience - and Dale is verging on the realization of this. I really believe this moment is linked directly somehow with Cole/Lynch's dream featuring Monica Belluci. That sequence also features a number of shots where the character is staring at and speaking to the camera (very rare for Twin Peaks) and in that dream sequence we can see Cooper's body, but not his face. I think perhaps we may be looking at his face from that dream, looking out beyond and through the fourth wall at us, momentarily. And I do think there is validity to this, as the scene in the Sheriff's office fades and only Diane/Laura Dern and Cole/Lynch are remaining. I think the pairing of these three is significant in this moment not because of the on-screen relationships that the characters have, but for the fact that these 3 have been off-screen friends and collaborators for over 30 years now. I think the "curtain call" line and the nonsensical fact that Cooper's key to The Great Northern key opens this door suggests the pure theatricality of the moment. It's sort of like how when Coop went and "saved" Laura, he wasn't changing the actual world and altering the actual timeline, and I think he is aware of this. He is changing the story. Or I don't know, maybe I'm totally full of poo poo right now. Trying to look at this from differing perspectives and trying to be less literal, or more literal, not sure which.
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Sep 14, 2017 14:47
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This show was so good.
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Sep 14, 2017 16:52
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kaworu posted:I still think the world he traveled to was some close analogue of our real world. Yes, Twin Peaks exists as a town in that world that Dale was exploring in Episode 18, but I just... feel like the intent was for the characters to burst out of that Glass Box. I like thinking of the series finale in terms of it being the final iteration of a lot of the themes and language Lynch has used since at least Blue Velvet. There's a real sense of finality with that house going dark.
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Sep 14, 2017 16:57
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https://twitter.com/david_lynch/status/908382492280840192
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Sep 14, 2017 18:37
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Is that the first time they've referred to the series as Season 3?
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Sep 14, 2017 18:46
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I think so! Even on IMDb and Wikipedia it's considered its own thing WHY ISN'T WALLY ON THE COVER
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Sep 14, 2017 18:52
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This might come off a bit like a gimmick post and for that I apologise. So, I enjoyed the first two season of Twin Peaks, but they are the only things of Lynch I've ever seen. When I saw it the first time I was 16 or so and wasn't interested so much in the director, just the show itself. Re-watched them in prep for season 3; maybe didn't hold up so well compared to the rose-tinted version, but hey, still enjoyed them. From there, I started to watch season 3 on it's weekly release but for ~reasons~ I had to stop for a bit. I just decided today to pick up from where I left off and I'm now up to episode 9. And I'm not really enjoying it. Nowhere as much as the first two seasons at any rate. The core bits are fine, but I'm finding myself skipping and fast forwarding ahead to the point where a 60 minute episode is over in about 40. The worst offender so far was the nuclear episode where I spent more time trying to answer the question "Is this just the same shot over and over with different contrast?" then paying attention to the episode. So my question is, what am I missing? How do I get in the right head space to actually enjoy the show I want to enjoy, but have more or less failed to enjoy so far? As an aside, I did go back and find out where I was in the thread from when I stopped, and as I was catching up I saw a bunch of posters with the same problem I'm having... being less then polite about it. So, all the mocking has already happened several times over (I imagine) so some practical advice would be much appreciated!
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Sep 14, 2017 18:52
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OscarDiggs posted:The worst offender so far was the nuclear episode where I spent more time trying to answer the question "Is this just the same shot over and over with different contrast?" then paying attention to the episode. Sorry you didnt like the best episode
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Sep 14, 2017 18:58
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OscarDiggs posted:This might come off a bit like a gimmick post and for that I apologise. honestly man if you don't like it then you don't like and there probably isn't anything that's gonna change your mind. it's probably the type of show that's more appealing to people who are fans of lynch overall rather than people who are specifically fans of the original show.
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Sep 14, 2017 18:58
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What specifically are you having trouble with? I will say that I find it hard to imagine that this show is really for someone who couldn't appreciate the nuclear episode, but I don't wanna say that outright without more info.
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Sep 14, 2017 18:58
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OscarDiggs posted:And I'm not really enjoying it. Nowhere as much as the first two seasons at any rate. The core bits are fine, but I'm finding myself skipping and fast forwarding ahead to the point where a 60 minute episode is over in about 40. The worst offender so far was the nuclear episode where I spent more time trying to answer the question "Is this just the same shot over and over with different contrast?" then paying attention to the episode. If you didn't think episode 8 was good art, you should really just watch something else you enjoy. As much as we like to theorize and pick apart stuff and read into the plotlines of this show, it's never really been about any of that. Like everything else Lynch does, it's mostly an impressionist mood painting using film as a medium. There's the backbone of Mark Frost's conspiracy stuff in there, but since the end of Season 2, it's taken a distant back seat to Lynch being Lynch. There's absolutely nothing wrong with not liking this stuff, and if you genuinely don't, you shouldn't waste your time on it. You're not missing anything!
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Sep 14, 2017 19:00
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get really high and then watch episode 8 again is my best recommendation also, take the episodes as they come. don't wait for things to happen, let them wash over you. if you are waiting for the next 'big plot beat' to come this show is going to continually disappoint you. The Walrus fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Sep 14, 2017 |
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Sep 14, 2017 19:11
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Tim Burns Effect posted:Sorry you didnt like the best episode I'm sorry as well, hence coming here to ask how I can do better! Escobarbarian posted:What specifically are you having trouble with? I will say that I find it hard to imagine that this show is really for someone who couldn't appreciate the nuclear episode, but I don't wanna say that outright without more info. My main problem is, there are bits that I find interesting and thought provoking and so on and so on. But then... those bit's go on and on and on. To the point where what was interesting becomes boring. Like the nuclear scene, for the first 5 minutes, I was on the edge of my seat. The music, the visuals, it was fantastic! For about 5 minutes... and then after it kept on happening I settled back, bored and getting distracted by petty stuff. Then I started fast forwarding. Like... like I think it needs a good editor to maybe, cut it down to a third of the size? There's good bits, then there's fantastic bits... and after those bit's I can get up, make a drink and come back again safe in the knowledge that it's going to have kept on happening in all that time, so I won't have missed anything. romanowski posted:honestly man if you don't like it then you don't like and there probably isn't anything that's gonna change your mind. it's probably the type of show that's more appealing to people who are fans of lynch overall rather than people who are specifically fans of the original show. Is there a set route for that? I can put his name and get a list of works he's done on Wikipedia but is there a "Goon-approved" route into Lynch appreciation-dom? I don't want to give up on this. What I'm enjoying, I'm enjoying. But it's like I'm being drip fed. Dr. Fishopolis posted:There's absolutely nothing wrong with not liking this stuff, and if you genuinely don't, you shouldn't waste your time on it. You're not missing anything! Well... thanks. Like I said I don't want to just skip it. There is stuff there that I am enjoying. But if there's a bigger picture to it all that I'm just getting, which is keeping me from actually appreciating it for what it is, I want to know.
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Sep 14, 2017 19:12
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wa27 posted:Is that the first time they've referred to the series as Season 3? watch it be a new edit
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Sep 14, 2017 19:14
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Blue Velvet and Mulholland Dr. are probably the best Lynch gateways, outside of the original TP.
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Sep 14, 2017 19:14
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Your Parents posted:watch it be a new edit Lynch decides to condense the season in half by cutting out anything not related to Dougie Jones
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Sep 14, 2017 19:20
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OscarDiggs posted:My main problem is, there are bits that I find interesting and thought provoking and so on and so on. But then... those bit's go on and on and on. To the point where what was interesting becomes boring. Like the nuclear scene, for the first 5 minutes, I was on the edge of my seat. The music, the visuals, it was fantastic! For about 5 minutes... and then after it kept on happening I settled back, bored and getting distracted by petty stuff. Then I started fast forwarding. Like... like I think it needs a good editor to maybe, cut it down to a third of the size? There's good bits, then there's fantastic bits... and after those bit's I can get up, make a drink and come back again safe in the knowledge that it's going to have kept on happening in all that time, so I won't have missed anything. Have you tried Ritalin?
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Sep 14, 2017 19:21
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It's possible you'll like the show more in its second half, if there were bits and pieces you liked in the first half. I thought the show got much stronger following episode 8 and I wasn't the biggest fan of 8 itself.
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Sep 14, 2017 19:22
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Escobarbarian posted:Blue Velvet and Mulholland Dr. are probably the best Lynch gateways, outside of the original TP. This is the best advice, ramp up on what Lynch's non-TP work is and then come back. Those two, Lost Highway, then Eraserhead. Then give it another try. If that doesn't do it for you, you're an OG TP fan and that's what you like and the new season just won't really ever be what you want. More generally, never expect anything ever when attempting to enjoy an auteur filmmaker.
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Sep 14, 2017 19:26
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I don't really get exposed to pretentious art student films but i've seen parodies of them in media and in my mind David Lynch is the king of the pretentious art student filmmakers. I love to be confused and wonder what this is a metaphor for. Squirrel cheeked lady stomping on sperms singing about how everything is fine in heaven? That's a masturbation and suicide metaphor wrapped up in one. Thanks, blog post, for explaining that to me! And david lynch will do these dreamlike things and everyone just rolls with it. A thing from mulholland drive that really stuck with me was the cowboy telling the guy "now you do good, you'll see me one more time. You do bad, you'll see me.... two more times" and that's a weird loving threat to make. If I do bad maybe I see you one more time, the time you kill me. Maybe I don't see you at all, I just get shot in the back of the head. These are threats I understand. What's this two time poo poo? The first time will be at the grocery store. I'll be shaking my fist impotently at you the whole time. The SECOND time is going to be the torture session in private. You don't want to see me two times, buster. I think I just adore dream logic in media. Obsidian was one of my favorite games for walking through an emerging sentient AI's dreams and trying to find the logic in them.
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Sep 14, 2017 19:27
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holy poo poo guys i think we're getting a season 4 D: there's no way they would release it titled the third season if we weren't getting a forth. it would just be "the return" if it was a single thing, like fire walk with me.
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Sep 14, 2017 19:32
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I can't wait for season 4, in 7 years, with the entire original cast including David Lynch appearing only in posthumous cameos where they call Sonny Jim and crumble into dust on camera
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Sep 14, 2017 19:38
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acksplode posted:I can't wait for season 4, in 7 years, with the entire original cast including David Lynch appearing only in posthumous cameos where they call Sonny Jim and crumble into dust on camera this is exactly how its going to go down, but coop will still be his immortal self and everyone else will be teapots. or maybe in 2 years 53 days plus 10 days? season 3 took them 4 years to write tho and then almost 2 years to make either way.
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Sep 14, 2017 19:42
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A True Jar Jar Fan posted:It's possible you'll like the show more in its second half, if there were bits and pieces you liked in the first half. I thought the show got much stronger following episode 8 and I wasn't the biggest fan of 8 itself. So, power through? It's what I was going to do anyway of course, but if there was some very obvious big picture I was missing, I just needed it pointed out to me. Thanks. Thank you! I'll try and get on that. I'll think I'll keep at season 3 first though, and then come back again after. See if it "clicks" more later in the season, and when I've been properly educated. Why cookie Rocket posted:More generally, never expect anything ever when attempting to enjoy an auteur filmmaker. So pretty much stop thinking so much about it? So pretty much do the exact opposite of what I've been doing?
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Sep 14, 2017 19:43
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OscarDiggs posted:So pretty much stop thinking so much about it? So pretty much do the exact opposite of what I've been doing? Yes. It's not network tv, it's a canvas. The scenes are splashes of paint. Take it in as an experience, analysis can come afterwards - just know you will never have a full understanding.
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Sep 14, 2017 19:47
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OscarDiggs posted:So pretty much stop thinking so much about it? So pretty much do the exact opposite of what I've been doing? Lynch is all about abstraction. If he's eliciting an emotional response from you - impatience included, sometimes - then that's what he was going for! Just let things wash over you and consider how you felt afterwards. If bored - why? If angry - why? If etc. - why?
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Sep 14, 2017 19:49
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I wouldn't get too excited about the box set being called Season 3. According to Sabrina Sutherland, everyone on the cast and crew (and Lynch himself) referred to it as Season 3, and "The Return" was only something added by Showtime after the fact.
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Sep 14, 2017 19:55
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The Walrus posted:Yes. It's not network tv, it's a canvas. The scenes are splashes of paint. Take it in as an experience, analysis can come afterwards - just know you will never have a full understanding. oneforthevine posted:Lynch is all about abstraction. If he's eliciting an emotional response from you - impatience included, sometimes - then that's what he was going for! Just let things wash over you and consider how you felt afterwards. If bored - why? If angry - why? If etc. - why? I've run into this sort of thinking before, and it's always sort of grated me. If someone (anyone, any director or writer or whatever) has put all this effort into creating something, isn't it... ungrateful? To just sit back and not try to appreciate the deeper meaning behind it all? Like the best Chef in the world has spent the better part of a month crafting the perfect meal just for me, and the only response I can muster is "Thanks! Tasted great!" Maybe ungrateful isn't right. Lazy might be better? Then again, I know literally next to nothing about Lynch and art, and in fact I know next to nothing about many things. Part of coming here and asking was admitting to that. So I wouldn't put it past me if it turned out I didn't actually know how to appreciate art the right way. So, thanks to you both, and to everyone else. I'll definitely take all of this on board going forward.
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Sep 14, 2017 20:02
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Alternately, you could watch Inland Empire. After that, S3 will seem as tight and coherent as an episode of Law and Order.
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Sep 14, 2017 20:03
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OscarDiggs posted:I've run into this sort of thinking before, and it's always sort of grated me. I think the pages upon pages of people (including me) discussing and analyzing this show shows that it's not an either/or proposition. I'm not saying you should 'turn your brain off' like you're at the latest transformers movie. Just that you should appreciate the visceral experience that's been created for you before you start trying to discern any concrete meaning from it. This is especially true because the idea of a concrete meaning in this TV show is not something that exists, so by taking time out of the episode to try and analyze you're actually doing it a disservice. edit: also remember that this is 18 hours co-written by two people, with one of those people directing and editing and doing the music and sound for each and every episode. I'm not sure if you were aware of it, and for me it really helped with the idea of viewing it as not a collection of episodes, but an 18 hour work of art The Walrus fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Sep 14, 2017 |
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Sep 14, 2017 20:20
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OscarDiggs posted:So, power through? It's what I was going to do anyway of course, but if there was some very obvious big picture I was missing, I just needed it pointed out to me. Thanks. You mentioned rewatching the first two seasons, but did you see Fire Walk With Me, and The Missing Pieces? Those are probably much more important in bridging the gap.
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Sep 14, 2017 20:32
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Vikar Jerome posted:holy poo poo guys i think we're getting a season 4 D: "The return" was only ever a Showtime marketing thing, the show itself only called itself Twin Peaks. I don't think they broke the news of S4 to the DVD package people.
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Sep 14, 2017 20:41
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