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Some Numbers posted:Yep. I dunno, she's decided that she wants to make absolutely sure they can never fall into human hands again after seeing how humans hosed up with them? Confiscating them basically. And yes, I realise that "let human hands get ahold of these sealed away artifacts so they can be never fall into human hands" sounds kinda dumb, but it wouldn't be the first time something dumb sounding was a plot point in fiction. Perhaps the logic goes "yes, removing these artifacts from the world requires that humans get ahold of them for a short while, but after the brief period of turmoil the artifact is removed and is never again a potential risk, whereas if it is left sealed it is possible some clever humans could find them and use them to cause havoc unimpeded. This way they are taken into my care." Or something like that anyway. Anyway that's all if the grandmaster is Aidios, which would seem cliched somehow, yet I feel we could trust Falcom to pull it off in a good way. I can have moments of... eccentricity and sometimes be quite curious about things. Please forgive me if I do something foolish or rude.
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Sep 13, 2017 19:37
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I don't think the Grandmaster has any compunction about being a bad person. He or she runs an organization that created both the Black Fang and the Angel of Slaughter. It seems the Grandmaster genuinely regretted the losses to their own organization. The Grandmaster and the other Anguis all act like they were sort of OK with Weissman, and definitely fond of Loewe.
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Sep 13, 2017 19:49
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Aidios being the Grandmaster requires the logical leap of "Aidios decided to gather the Sept-Terrions, but needs a huge shadowy organization instead of using her goddess powers because...???"
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Sep 13, 2017 19:55
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Stephen9001 posted:Let me guess, some of the speculation is that the grandmaster is Goddess Aidios herself. Unsure if that would be a good or bad twist if true. Nah, Aidios is clearly Dorothy. Anyway Campanella is quite a treat, and this door does some good in setting up some things for the series to explore later. Also has some more subtle things that you might miss on the first time you view it.
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Sep 13, 2017 20:01
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StrifeHira posted:Nah, Aidios is clearly Dorothy. E: brainfart I'm agreeing with you Omobono fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Sep 13, 2017 |
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Sep 13, 2017 20:12
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Some Numbers posted:Aidios being the Grandmaster requires the logical leap of "Aidios decided to gather the Sept-Terrions, but needs a huge shadowy organization instead of using her goddess powers because...???" I know, I was merely explaining what I think the thought process behind the possibility of such speculation might be. And let's be honest, Falcom would probably think of that question and have it answered if she was. I don't think Aidios is the Grandmaster, but I wouldn't be that surprised if she was, and I kinda hope she is, just to see how Falcom tries to pull it off. StrifeHira posted:Nah, Aidios is clearly Dorothy. But you see, Dorothy is the Grandmaster, and therefore since Aidios is Dorothy, Aidios is the grandmaster. Chekmate! I can have moments of... eccentricity and sometimes be quite curious about things. Please forgive me if I do something foolish or rude.
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Sep 13, 2017 20:14
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I'm on the "Queen Alicia is the Grandmaster" boat, the coup was staged by her just to give Weissman time to get the Aureole because as a Queen, she wouldn't have time to search for it nor being completely alone to do so. 
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Sep 13, 2017 20:32
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Stephen9001 posted:I dunno, she's decided that she wants to make absolutely sure they can never fall into human hands again after seeing how humans hosed up with them? Confiscating them basically. And yes, I realise that "let human hands get ahold of these sealed away artifacts so they can be never fall into human hands" sounds kinda dumb, but it wouldn't be the first time something dumb sounding was a plot point in fiction. Perhaps the logic goes "yes, removing these artifacts from the world requires that humans get ahold of them for a short while, but after the brief period of turmoil the artifact is removed and is never again a potential risk, whereas if it is left sealed it is possible some clever humans could find them and use them to cause havoc unimpeded. This way they are taken into my care." Or something like that anyway. It's probably a LITTLE bit more complicated than that. For one, the meta plan of which the Gospel Plan (unseal and then obtain the Aureole) and the Phantasmal Blaze Plan (whatever they aim to do in Crossbell and Erebonia) is called the Orpheus Final Plan. Orpheus being a rather obvious reference to the act of bringing a loved one back from the dead. (and then letting said loved one slip through one's fingers once the goal's in sight) Some Numbers posted:Aidios being the Grandmaster requires the logical leap of "Aidios decided to gather the Sept-Terrions, but needs a huge shadowy organization instead of using her goddess powers because...???" Because the Sept-Terrion of Space was essentially a wish-granting supercomputer while the fragments of what's probably the Sept-Terrion of Fire are (Cold Steel games spoilers) giant mechas. There are speculations that "Aidios" was not so much a literal godess who could snap her fingers to make stuff happen, but was actually a scientist who was able to create some REALLY out-there technology and as such isn't literally omnipotent, even if she seems to have some powers of foresight.
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Sep 13, 2017 20:38
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There are 7 Sept-Terrions and they are likely spread across the continent with each one in a single country. How many countries are we aware of so far?
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Sep 13, 2017 21:27
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I've always hoped the notion that the Grandmaster is Aidios was wrong for a simpler reason: much as 3rd adds some dark shades to the Septian Church, the fact that they made a big international religion in a jRPG a reliable source of support and allies to the side of good is amazing to me. Tossing that aside for a plot twist would be such a drat waste.
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Sep 13, 2017 21:40
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CmdrKing posted:I've always hoped the notion that the Grandmaster is Aidios was wrong for a simpler reason: much as 3rd adds some dark shades to the Septian Church, the fact that they made a big international religion in a jRPG a reliable source of support and allies to the side of good is amazing to me. Tossing that aside for a plot twist would be such a drat waste. Just because the Septian Church worships Aidios doesn't mean that it's under they're control if that turns out to be that case. It could also be the grandmaster is a descendant of Aidios and inherited their design notes/power and is using them toward their own ends.
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Sep 13, 2017 21:51
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Mraagvpeine posted:There are 7 Sept-Terrions and they are likely spread across the continent with each one in a single country. How many countries are we aware of so far? Liberl, Erebonia, Calvard, North Ambria, Ored, Leman, Crossbell and Remiferia as far as I recall. There's probably places like Nord (the highlands north of Erebonia) too that aren't really considered states, yet have their own unique culture. And then there's apparantly countries farther east too. Those immigrants moving to Calvard from the east have to come from SOMEWHERE. That said, nobody ever said there's one Sept-Terrion in each single country, especially since a country like Erebonia used to be a patchwork of smaller countries that eventually united in a single empire that then also got itself a chancellor who started stitching on border states left and right. CmdrKing posted:I've always hoped the notion that the Grandmaster is Aidios was wrong for a simpler reason: much as 3rd adds some dark shades to the Septian Church, the fact that they made a big international religion in a jRPG a reliable source of support and allies to the side of good is amazing to me. Tossing that aside for a plot twist would be such a drat waste. Who said it'd be tossed aside? If the Grandmaster turns out to be Aidios, it'd be kinda interesting seeing that the organisation under her command is the Society and not the Church. Erpy fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Sep 13, 2017 |
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Sep 13, 2017 22:16
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Erpy posted:Liberl, Erebonia, Calvard, North Ambria, Ored, Leman, Crossbell and Remiferia as far as I recall. There's probably places like Nord (the highlands north of Erebonia) too that aren't really considered states, yet have their own unique culture. And then there's apparantly countries farther east too. Those immigrants moving to Calvard from the east have to come from SOMEWHERE. That said, nobody ever said there's one Sept-Terrion in each single country, especially since a country like Erebonia used to be a patchwork of smaller countries that eventually united in a single empire that then also got itself a chancellor who started stitching on border states left and right. I guess I was assuming that each arc in the Trails series would focus on one country and the society's attempt to claim the Sept-Terrion in that arc. And if any place is going to have multiple Sept-Terrions, my bet would be the country where the main church of Aidios is located (Was that Remiferia? I don't remember).
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Sep 13, 2017 23:05
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Erpy posted:Who said it'd be tossed aside? If the Grandmaster turns out to be Aidios, it'd be kinda interesting seeing that the organisation under her command is the Society and not the Church. I would personally find it fascinating if the church ended up becoming disillusioned with their own god upon seeing that the god is not the benevolent being they thought it was, but stick to their principles of helping the needy and what not. Basically: "okay, it turns out the god we worshiped is kind of a dick/bitch/insert derogatory word of choice here, but that doesn't mean we should stop doing good works. Taking in orphans and supporting those in need are still good things we can continue to dedicate our lives too, we'll just have to do it without offering thanks to the goddess". I can have moments of... eccentricity and sometimes be quite curious about things. Please forgive me if I do something foolish or rude.
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Sep 13, 2017 23:55
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I'm not sure we want to turn Trails into yet another cliched JRPG.
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Sep 14, 2017 00:09
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Oh my. Reading this door with foreknowledge of the Crossbell and Erebonia games is even more exciting than for the rest of you. Tee hee.
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Sep 14, 2017 00:47
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Mraagvpeine posted:I guess I was assuming that each arc in the Trails series would focus on one country and the society's attempt to claim the Sept-Terrion in that arc. And if any place is going to have multiple Sept-Terrions, my bet would be the country where the main church of Aidios is located (Was that Remiferia? I don't remember). I think it's Artoria or something like that, though Remiferia is where the Gacha game takes place.
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Sep 14, 2017 01:15
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Mraagvpeine posted:I guess I was assuming that each arc in the Trails series would focus on one country and the society's attempt to claim the Sept-Terrion in that arc. And if any place is going to have multiple Sept-Terrions, my bet would be the country where the main church of Aidios is located (Was that Remiferia? I don't remember). Alard posted:I think it's Artoria or something like that, though Remiferia is where the Gacha game takes place. Arteria. So, pretty much.
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Sep 14, 2017 01:31
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...well, at least it makes it sense why the Aureole was recording Campanella, if Campanella had the Aureole.
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Sep 14, 2017 02:46
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Junpei posted:Oh my. Reading this door with foreknowledge of the Crossbell and Erebonia games is even more exciting than for the rest of you. Tee hee. Even just the Erebonia context really made this door more exciting. I can't wait to eventually play Zero and Azure and then revisit the door.
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Sep 14, 2017 03:22
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This got me thinking about how strong the Society is, compared to the church. The Gralsritter certainly seem to be on the same level as the enforcers, if Rufina really was as strong as Loewe. And having up to 20 Dominion sure seems like it could handle any Anguis. And then I laughed at the idea of power levels in a series were every character is humble enough to explain why they actually lost that fight.
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Sep 14, 2017 23:25
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Billzasilver posted:This got me thinking about how strong the Society is, compared to the church. The Gralsritter certainly seem to be on the same level as the enforcers, if Rufina really was as strong as Loewe. And having up to 20 Dominion sure seems like it could handle any Anguis. I think there are a good deal less than 20 Dominions.
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Sep 14, 2017 23:26
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BearDrivingTruck posted:I think there are a good deal less than 20 Dominions. More than 10 though. What with Kevin being the 12th and all. I can have moments of... eccentricity and sometimes be quite curious about things. Please forgive me if I do something foolish or rude.
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Sep 15, 2017 00:01
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BearDrivingTruck posted:I think there are a good deal less than 20 Dominions. Ries mentioned at the start of Chapter 5 that there are never more than twelve. Plus nobody's never specified how long it can take to find a new Stigma bearer after one of them catches the wrong end of a bullet/sword/dragon/atomic fireball/pistol that's also a boomerang/chainsaw halberd that's also a motorbike/etc.  We'll soon face a momentous choice; indeed, the final choice.   Choose four parties for the endgame: four characters to face the Golden Giant, four to battle the Black Guardian, four to brave the Crimson Lizard, and two to stand with Kevin and Ries against the World's Will. Whatever those are supposed to be. Hwurmp fucked around with this message at 11:48 on Sep 15, 2017 |
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Sep 15, 2017 00:02
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Erpy posted:
I think that reveal has a number of implications. Not necessarily true, but highly likely: 1. Aidios is, if not strictly mortal, certainly human and physical. Meaningless in itself, but also implies 2. The founders of the Church presumably would be aware of this fact, meaning they've been involved in coverup lasting 1200 years. That's considerably more corrupt and nasty than having a division dealing with unfortunate business like the Graalsritter. Additionally... I know the Kiseki universe is more idealistic than ours, but I can't imagine there wouldn't be a large number of believers that would follow the will of the Goddess, once she revealed herself, regardless of how outwardly immoral those words were. She moves in mysterious ways, etc. BearDrivingTruck posted:I think there are a good deal less than 20 Dominions. THe number I'm finding is 12. I have no idea where that came from though. And as noted 3rd itself, that's merely how many Dominion positions there are; each one is associated with a particular relic, so if there's no one with a suitable Stigma for a given relic, then that position lies empty. So we have no idea how many Dominions are actually around and active at this time, although up until the present in CS2 there's 5 known Dominions: Carnelia, Partitioner, Heretic Hunter, Roaring Lion, and Blue Testament. By comparison there are potentially 22 Enforcers, though we know for a fact that one's dead, another is missing, and at least one has outright turned against them. Plus whatever happens with Renne. Although in general I'm not entirely sure about Ouroboros and how Falcom handles them. As the thread as noted with the Grandmaster here, the game's language seems way, way too willing to overlook just how nasty the consequences of their actions have been, and really seems to want to set them up as some sort of well-meaning extremists or necessary evil. I mean, of the known Enforcers, only two seem to be downright evil (one from Zero and one from CSII), and while Blueblanc and Walter have remained in a weird kinda evil but moreso Chaotic Neutral zone, most of the rest are clearly just messed up people who're just a little bit too willing to murder for the greater good.
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Sep 15, 2017 00:04
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Poor Gilbert, he tried so hard to pull some last minute character development... only for it to prove futile, for he is doomed to be a butt monkey. And for once, that's to the detriment rather than benefit of our party.
I can have moments of... eccentricity and sometimes be quite curious about things. Please forgive me if I do something foolish or rude.
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Sep 15, 2017 00:12
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8 is almost 10, which is a "good deal" relative to 20. I'm still right, maybe!
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Sep 15, 2017 00:30
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I built my final parties so that each of the four parties had one of the Ultimate Weapons, and that each of them were in suitable pairs. I also made the assumption that I would get to pick a final party for the final battle. That was wrong! I sent Estelle, Joshua, Schera, and Renne (Team Bright Family) after the Golden Giant. I sent Agate, Tita, Kloe and Julia (Team South-West Liberl after the Crimson Lizard, I sent Olivier, Mueller, Anelace and Richard (Team Eight Leaves, Two Erebonians) after the Black Guardian, leaving... Josette and Zin (Team Earth Lock) with Kevin and Reis.  (No see, I had to switch Richard/Anelace for Zin and Josette because Richard had the fourth ultimate weapon, and I clearly stated "one per team".  Too bad, because that would have given me: Team Three Erebonians, One Republican (for Aidios's sake do NOT google that) and Team Eight Leaves, Two Gralsritter.)EDIT: I'm just saying what I sent, it doesn't necessarily count as a vote. I mean, I've seen that version already. Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Sep 15, 2017 |
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Sep 15, 2017 00:38
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Themed teams are fun, let's go with that. Echoing Stabbey's Team Bright Family to face the Golden Giant. Seems pretty clear cut. For the Crimson Lizard, let's do Team Rad Royalty's Royal Rumble starring Kloe, Julia, Olivier, and Mueller The Black Guardian should be Team Hit Things With Really Big Sticks (and One Fist) starring Anelace, Richard, Agate, and Zin. So that leaves Tita and Josette to be with Kevin and Ries. Naturally, this team shall thus be called Team Three Weapons of Mass Destruction And A Little Lady
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Sep 15, 2017 00:45
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Sorry if I'm misremembering, but I thought there were 20 Stigma, and each Dominion position was reserved for a different Stigma. It's why Rufina is so strong but can't get Dominion rank, because she lacks any Stigma. Of course there's no guarantee that the church gets to find or recruit all of the Stigma, so they must have considerably less than the maximum number. But at the least we know Weissman never found one that he could study, so he never had one as an ally. As for teams, it's very hard to decide unless we can decide who goes with Kevin and Ries first, since that's obviously the most important. Would there be any clear benefits between Renne and Richard, Estelle and Joshua, or Estelle and Renne?
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Sep 15, 2017 00:54
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May as well choose the teams I went with: Team Olivier's Haram (Olivier, Mueller, Schera, Zin) for the Golden Giant Team Kloe's Kourt (Kloe, Juila, Richard, Josette) for the Crimson Lizard Team Agate's Worst Nightmare (Agate, Tita, Renne, Anelace) for the Black Guardian And Team Protagonist (Estelle, Josua, Kevin, Ries) to finish things off.
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Sep 15, 2017 00:56
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I made Estelle and Joshua go with Kevin and Ries because come on it's only fair that the protagonists be together during the final battle of the sky series.
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Sep 15, 2017 00:59
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I had strongly considered voting for our new people, R&R, to join the main group, but screw it. I think this is the best way to have the final teams match the final fights. Team Protagonists - Kevin, Ries, Estelle, and Joshua for the Worlds Will Team Renne and Friends - Renne, Tita, Anelace, and Josette for the Golden Giant Team Royals - Kloe, Julia, Olivier, and Muller for the Black Guardian Team Cassius' Work Buddies - Agate, Schera, Zin, and Richard for Crimson Lizard
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Sep 15, 2017 01:09
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Stephen9001 posted:More than 10 though. What with Kevin being the 12th and all. Isn't he the 5th Dominion?
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Sep 15, 2017 01:30
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Billzasilver posted:Team Protagonists - Kevin, Ries, Estelle, and Joshua for the Worlds Will Echoing this.
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Sep 15, 2017 03:09
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Billzasilver posted:I had strongly considered voting for our new people, R&R, to join the main group, but screw it. I think this is the best way to have the final teams match the final fights.
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Sep 15, 2017 03:10
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Billzasilver posted:This got me thinking about how strong the Society is, compared to the church. The Gralsritter certainly seem to be on the same level as the enforcers, if Rufina really was as strong as Loewe. And having up to 20 Dominion sure seems like it could handle any Anguis. Who needs power levels when you have 100 church members armed with salt bows
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Sep 15, 2017 04:00
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Billzasilver posted:I had strongly considered voting for our new people, R&R, to join the main group, but screw it. I think this is the best way to have the final teams match the final fights.
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Sep 15, 2017 04:18
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I can't imagine not taking R&R to the final fight, so despite the fact that I'm not going to win, I'm going to propose my teams anyway! The Best Team (tm): Richard, Renne, Kevin and Ries for the Worlds Will Team Olivier's Harem: Olivert, Mueller, Schera and Joshua for the Golden Giant Team Girl Power: Estelle, Tita, Anelace and Kloe for the Crimson Lizard Team Whatever: Julia, Josette, Zin and Agate for the Black Guardian.
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Sep 15, 2017 04:42
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During my second playthrough, when I knew what to expect, I put Renne in the team to fight the Golden Giant (I believe she actually has some lines unique to that boss) with Tita fighting alongside her because it was nice story-wise. Richard had a chance to take down the Black Guardian because he deserved a chance to take something like that down and Agate fight the Crimson Lizard. I put Estelle and Joshua on the main path since it felt good to have the final battle be fought by the four protagonists.
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Sep 15, 2017 06:16
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