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She's hot and she gets horned up by genocide so that seems like a double win in my book 
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Sep 14, 2017 01:24
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Whoever complained about no savepoint in the prologue, I wouldn't be surprised if Yoko Taro doesn't care if you play his game if you can't get over that frustration. I assume it was 100% intentional and some sort of test of your commitment.
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Sep 14, 2017 02:04
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It's also better to taste that frustration when you have very little progress to lose rather than forget to save for many hours and lose a ton of progress. Of course some people manage to do both...
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Sep 14, 2017 02:06
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Look Sir Droids posted:Whoever complained about no savepoint in the prologue, I wouldn't be surprised if Yoko Taro doesn't care if you play his game if you can't get over that frustration. I assume it was 100% intentional and some sort of test of your commitment. I haven't played any other Yoko Taro games but I know their reputation so it's entirely possible he doesn't actually know how to make a video game.
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Sep 14, 2017 02:08
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I enjoyed route A quite a bit but the game lost a lot of steam for me in route B and I only persisted because I saw on the internet over and over that it really picks up in route C. I probably would have stopped playing otherwise.
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Sep 14, 2017 02:15
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RyokoTK posted:I haven't played any other Yoko Taro games but I know their reputation so it's entirely possible he doesn't actually know how to make a video game. Yes, you've cracked the code. Despite being a twenty plus year industry veteran who was noted by Platinum staff as being the most hands on director they had, who is widely acknowledged for pushing the potential of games as a medium in ways no-one else has, Taro Yoko does not know how to make a video game. You can tell because he understands the conventions of the medium and is willing to subvert them to achieve specific narrative goals. (Of course, Taro might agree with you. He's self-deprecating that way.)
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Sep 14, 2017 02:38
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Take it easy bud, I was just being snarky. e: and referring to Drakengard, a series of notoriously terrible games. RyokoTK fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Sep 14, 2017 |
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Sep 14, 2017 02:40
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RyokoTK posted:Take it easy bud, I was just being snarky. That's the thing though, this game is really player-friendly compared to his other stuff. Except for the prologue thing, the literally first thing a new player experiences can't explain it
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Sep 14, 2017 03:42
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It's necessary for the diegesis of the game to work, considering how much they integrate save points into the overall story of the game. I'm genuinely a little baffled that people struggled so much with it: I've never played a twin stick shooter, have used an actual gamepad to play two other games before Automata, and I spent maybe 20 minutes getting through the entire prologue on Hard.
Vermain fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Sep 14, 2017 |
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Sep 14, 2017 03:46
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I think we're all aware narratively of why there can't be a save in the intro, dude. The design decision can be both internally consistent and also not fun from a player's perspective. e: and in my case, I didn't struggle with it, the game crashed.
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Sep 14, 2017 03:49
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RyokoTK posted:The design decision can be both internally consistent and also not fun from a player's perspective. Sure, but "repeatedly playing through a section to overcome the challenge" is a core aspect of these types of checkpoint games, and that's all that the prologue is. It's not especially lengthy, and the option to trivialize it by cranking it down to Easy is always there. Considering how necessary it is to establish the diegetic conceit of savepoints, I don't think a great price was paid at the player's expense, if at all.
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Sep 14, 2017 04:05
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Vermain posted:It's necessary for the diegesis of the game to work, considering how much they integrate save points into the overall story of the game. I'm genuinely a little baffled that people struggled so much with it: I've never played a twin stick shooter, have used an actual gamepad to play two other games before Automata, and I spent maybe 20 minutes getting through the entire prologue on Hard. we're all proud of you
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Sep 14, 2017 04:08
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Well the prologue is also long and kinda easy on any difficulty, so it's not like having to replay the entire thing because of a game crash after over half an hour was equivalent to overcoming a challenge...
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Sep 14, 2017 04:09
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Ainsley McTree posted:we're all proud of you Thank you! RyokoTK posted:Well the prologue is also long and kinda easy on any difficulty, so it's not like having to replay the entire thing because of a game crash after over half an hour was equivalent to overcoming a challenge... Crashing immediately post-prologue definitely sucks, yeah. I ate one when I first talked to the Commander, but I'd managed to sneak in a save right before. I think having an autosave once the last prologue cutscene starts playing would have been good, and still would have maintained the diegesis, but it seems SE was blindsided by the PC crashes given how they seemed so weirdly card and setting-specific. After that one crash, I never had another one, which makes it even odder.
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Sep 14, 2017 04:13
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RyokoTK posted:There is the scene toward the end of route B where 9S is in the hacking confrontation with Adam, who says "You're thinking about how much you want to **** 2B," which I just assumed was censoring 'gently caress' because it's a video game, until I read someone suggest that it's actually censoring 'kill' or 'hate' (or being intentionally ambiguous). And I like the theory, except I'm trying to imagine at what point he reached that conclusion. But then in the tower in route C, he relishes in savagely murdering the 2B clones, although that might be because he's completely off the deep end by that point. consider also that you've been playing route b which is kind of boring because you're largely either repeatedly doing the boring mini game or mashing just one button: in that case it could also be 'play' said directly to the player as she's at least got more buttons to mash. it's areally great bit!
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Sep 15, 2017 00:04
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Eh I mostly mashed the same one button with 2B but I like the take.
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Sep 15, 2017 00:20
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it really spoke to me because doing two button combos is at least more exciting than mashing light attack a million times while hoping to trigger the treason power thingy from the good spear and i distinctly was wishing i could just play as her again
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Sep 15, 2017 00:25
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I finally got around to starting this game and it is somehow even more weird than I hoped. I have been religious in my avoidance of spoilers so I have no idea what is going to happen but I am ABOARD for this crazy ride!
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Sep 15, 2017 09:35
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[quote="“King of the Cosmos”" post="“476420322”"] I finally got around to starting this game and it is somehow even more weird than I hoped. I have been religious in my avoidance of spoilers so I have no idea what is going to happen but I am ABOARD for this crazy ride! [/quote] *Do a decent amount of side-quests even if they seem boring. *Play online whenever possible. *If you want to hear other people’s opinions on the game as you play through it, check out DarkID’s ongoing LP of the game. The mods do a pretty good job at policing spoilers. Start at page 1 and slowly work your way forward in the thread to avoid skipping past your current spot in the game. Speaking of which, how far in are you?
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Sep 15, 2017 09:56
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Know Such Peace posted:*Do a decent amount of side-quests even if they seem boring. I have about two hours play time and I have just gotten through the desert section. I probably need to do some more side quests but I was super interested in what was going on in the desert. And although the payoff didn't make any sense to me yet it was still incredibly interesting.
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Sep 15, 2017 10:00
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Good to hear. You’re early into the game, so you should avoid this thread for awhile. The game has been out for over six months, so mid-game stuff tends to get posted here without spoiler tags.
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Sep 15, 2017 10:12
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Know Such Peace posted:Good to hear. You’re early into the game, so you should avoid this thread for awhile. The game has been out for over six months, so mid-game stuff tends to get posted here without spoiler tags. If I have avoided everything so far I guess I can wait longer to talk about it! It's just that interesting that I want to talk about it as soon as it happens. Ah well, maybe that is better suited to another platform. I'll be back though!
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Sep 15, 2017 10:58
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Don't do side quests until you unlock quick travel. That's my one piece of advice.
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Sep 15, 2017 11:56
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eh do side quests until you feel like you want to progress the story more or want fast travel. you move fast enough in this game that travellings not a big deal
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Sep 15, 2017 12:23
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The one thing I can say to a new player that isn't a spoiler at all, is that if you start to get bored, it does improve massively toward the end. The end is the payoff, so push through til then if you can. The middle part of the game (which you're a fair ways away from) was super tedious for me and I think a fair number of people have a similar experience. But I promise the third act of this game is worth it. e: Also don't feel obligated to do side quests if they are frustrating, boring, or at too high of a level. You can (and should!) come back later. You may be locked out of them at points but they will become available again. e2: King of the Cosmos posted:If I have avoided everything so far I guess I can wait longer to talk about it! It's just that interesting that I want to talk about it as soon as it happens. Ah well, maybe that is better suited to another platform. I'll be back though! There's a ton of stuff in this game that doesn't really get fully contextualized until you reach the very end of the game, so don't get too hung up on trying to figure stuff out until you have all the pieces. Just roll with what happens. RyokoTK fucked around with this message at 13:39 on Sep 15, 2017 |
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Sep 15, 2017 13:26
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Vermain posted:It's necessary for the diegesis of the game to work, considering how much they integrate save points into the overall story of the game. I'm genuinely a little baffled that people struggled so much with it: I've never played a twin stick shooter, have used an actual gamepad to play two other games before Automata, and I spent maybe 20 minutes getting through the entire prologue on Hard. I actually don't really believe that anyone would ever be able to beat the prologue on hard unless they've played a lot of video games. To express confusion at why people find a half hour sequence where you can get 1-shot in the last 10 minutes frustrating or difficult is pretty weird, to be honest. No Wave fucked around with this message at 13:53 on Sep 15, 2017 |
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Sep 15, 2017 13:44
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No Wave posted:This has been almost nobody's experience with the prologue on hard so good for you i guess but the vast majority of players switch to normal very quickly. this game is actually pretty easy even on hard. if you've played any of platinum's other very popular, much harder character action games then the easiest part of their easiest game shouldn't be too difficult
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Sep 15, 2017 13:53
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The prologue is by far the hardest part of the game. Every other fight is more or less a joke because you have busted chips and you actually have learned the mechanics of the game by that point and, oh yeah, you can reload. The design is bad because it makes you unable to safely make mistakes while learning the mechanics of the game without having to sit through five minutes of interactive cutscene to try again. I'm sure hard difficulty nier automata prologue is well designed if you've beaten infinite climax bayonetta, definitely describes your average player.
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Sep 15, 2017 13:59
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No Wave posted:I'm sure hard difficulty nier automata prologue is well designed if you've beaten infinite climax bayonetta, definitely describes your average player. Jokes on you, it's terribly designed!
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Sep 15, 2017 14:21
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No Wave posted:I'm sure hard difficulty nier automata prologue is well designed if you've beaten infinite climax bayonetta, definitely describes your average player. Well it's not, since if you die you lose a pretty significant amount of progress. Hard in this game is busted junk.
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Sep 15, 2017 14:29
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No Wave posted:I'm sure hard difficulty nier automata prologue is well designed if you've beaten infinite climax bayonetta, definitely describes your average player. I have beaten Non-Stop Infinite Climax and hate Automata's busted hard mode
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Sep 15, 2017 15:08
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I've finished automatas hard mode blind on first playthrough (except 2 bullet hell sections that didn't let me switch chip loadouts) and enjoyed it a lot more than my 3+ bayonetta playthroughs. It's no MGR tho. The one hit kill mode is just silly though.
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Sep 15, 2017 15:27
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I mean it's doable just not balanced or a fun challenge
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Sep 15, 2017 15:33
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The problem is that it's not "hard" in an interesting way. Bloodborne is a hard ARPG that's continuously interesting in its challenge. Combat in Automata is just mashing one of two buttons and stacking a bunch of self-heal chips on yourself, and hoping you don't get one-shotted, and the only difference on Hard is that you get one-shotted a lot more.
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Sep 15, 2017 15:54
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It's almost like my point was that fun is subjective and people's mileages vary, and also the bayonetta comparison describes two superficially similar parts in games of different scopes and genres. + after 800 hours in souls games automatas bosses ran the same gamut from total pushover to rewarding pattern-based challenge as those games did. After a bit of exploration and sidequests, I rarely got one-shotted in automata, rarely abused self heal chips, and victory depended mostly on pattern recognition and evasion reflexes. I had a ton of fun, my biggest complaint being that it's a bit easy to overlevel - i would've appreciated a difficulty above hard without "very hard"s instakill gimmick. Some arguments just remind me of the people that played bioshock only using the wrench and then complained about it being boring and tedious despite the game giving them plenty of other options. You can trivialize parts of Bayonetta by doing nothing but the broken killgore move and call it the dominant min-max strategy, but that'd be a terrible argument for how it's a boring, uninteresting game.
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Sep 15, 2017 17:45
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 Yeah YMMV I guess. That was my problem with the game, anyway. Although part of it is that I wanted to end the fights quickly because I didn't enjoy them very much, and anyway I don't think the fights are what make the game memorable.My favorite scene with 2B isn't the duel with Adam in the Copied City, and it's not when she fights the big robot in the ocean, it's when she's trying to cross the city ruins before she succumbs to the infection and dies. When all you're doing is slowly walking and it takes forever. That moment is brilliant. Route C changes the focus of the game from big action game setpieces to the tragedy around 9S, and many of those moments are either in cutscenes or text. It doesn't rely on the fighting for that stuff, and it is a lot stronger for it, and honestly that super protracted fight in the Tower against Koshi and Roshi was almost unbearable because it had nothing to do with anything. In Dark Souls/Bloodborne, overcoming adversity (as told by the difficult combat) very much is the point of the gameplay experience, and so those challenging bosses are very memorable. The elation when I finally took down Orphan of Kos was a loving unreal moment of gaming for me. Automata doesn't have those moments in gameplay, but it's also not the point of the gameplay, and so I had a hard time really getting into it. That's just my take though! If you enjoyed the fights then that's definitely a good thing and I'm not trying to be adversarial about it.  I think it's a good thing that there's enough meat on the bones to be critical of the game as a quality work of fiction and how it uses the medium of video games successfully and unsuccessfully to tell its story.
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Sep 15, 2017 18:05
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Also I wrenched my way through Bioshock because the shooting felt weak and unsatisfying and switching to Plasmids was kinda clunky and a lot of the Plasmids had really niche uses. It wasn't so much that wrench jockey was OP and I wanted to win, it's that the shooting wasn't getting the job done for me. Bioshock 2 had much better gunplay and Plasmids, and you could use a gun and Plasmids at the same time so niche gun/Plasmid combinations worked very nicely, and so I used a combination of melee, shooting and spells throughout. And the fights were more complex and against larger numbers of enemies.
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Sep 15, 2017 18:12
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idk I liked the combat until I kept getting 1 shot at the beginning of route C. I especially loved Simone.
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Sep 15, 2017 20:09
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The enemies in general just feel very weak, and easily fall to a combo no matter how you go about it. It made using all the tools you had ultimately feel pointless since they're probably just going to die in two seconds anyway.
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Sep 15, 2017 20:21
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Honestly I enjoy the trash mobs feeling kinda weak, the combat is so smooth that it's weirdly relaxing to blow through groups of enemies.
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Sep 16, 2017 01:02
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