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More than anything else it's an indicator of how hosed up television and movies were/still are that someone like Whedon ends up being held up as a feminist simply because he made projects that focused on female main characters. Analyze his work past that and the feminist thing doesn't really hold water but just by giving a woman a lead role in an action series he was ahead of the rest of show business.
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Sep 14, 2017 17:51
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What if they rape her in the rear end does the poison still work?
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Sep 14, 2017 19:55
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banned from Starbucks posted:What if they rape her in the rear end does the poison still work? The hard hitting questions. There's a level on which Whedon's rep as a 'feminist' writer isn't really his fault. It's just that the bar is so loving low that even he manages to clear it, and the fact that he clears it better than anyone else of his standing and era is an indictment of everyone else.
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Sep 14, 2017 23:37
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The three female leads from Firefly: Acts 'like A Man' and is respected for it, but is basically cut off from femininity 99% of the time. Has no major plotlines. Abused child dependant on others to calm her during tantrums Prostitute (but classy!) I liked the show, but it's just not what people think it is. Take that great casting out of the show and think about how much of a loving mess it'd be.
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Sep 15, 2017 10:03
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Yeah, it absolutely would have fallen apart if it were around any longer. If anything, the movie works best as its own thing.
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Sep 15, 2017 10:10
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well why not posted:The three female leads from Firefly: Don't forget the twee mechanic. Who's character begins at 'knows engines' and ends at 'talks about sex, but in a cute way'
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Sep 15, 2017 10:12
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but it's cute because that's boy stuff! she's a tomboy! it's feminist because she has a boyfriend AND a job.
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Sep 15, 2017 10:13
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Donnerberg posted:Wasn't there a rape scene in Buffy too? I vaguely remember an interview with the frosted tips vampire where he said he was forced to do the scene despite vehemently protesting it. Ugh. There's good reason to pretend the show ended with season five. Then in the comic book follow up Joss had Xander hook up with Buffy's teenage sister, because, of course he did. I'll never understand the love for Firefly, the stories and characters squander any intrigue of the setting. Suppose it's a bit like those that defend Bethesda's Fallout games. 
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Sep 15, 2017 11:30
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Really, Serenity worked for me seeing it because of the actors. Fillion just nails it and as does everyone else. I like Firefly okay, but if I want to hang out in that universe, I usually go to Serenity. There's something about that film that works better than the show ever did.
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Sep 15, 2017 11:59
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well why not posted:The three female leads from Firefly:
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Sep 15, 2017 18:36
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well why not posted:The three female leads from Firefly:
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Sep 15, 2017 20:13
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What if my favorite character is Mal?
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Sep 15, 2017 23:15
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Xenomrph posted:What if my favorite character is Mal? There's nothing wrong with a little man-crush on Nathan Fillion. e: I really liked Jane; it's a pity that Adam Baldwin was evidently just playing himself.
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Sep 15, 2017 23:39
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Wash was my favorite.
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Sep 16, 2017 00:24
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It's definitely a case of character chemistry and charisma elevating mediocre writing. Tudyk and Baccarin are probably the most successful cast members, and I think it's well deserved.
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Sep 16, 2017 00:29
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wyoming posted:
Even more gross considering Xander is like his self insert character. edit: also RIP Harry Dean Stanton 
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Sep 16, 2017 06:05
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banned from Starbucks posted:edit: also RIP Harry Dean Stanton He will meet David in Valhalla.
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Sep 16, 2017 06:10
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Right.
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Sep 16, 2017 09:21
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CelticPredator posted:I usually go to Serenity. There's something about that film that works better than the show ever did. The loss of the show forced the plot to advance to what was essentially its endpoint, after developing a solid season to launch off of and not having any chance whatsoever to overstay its welcome or begin jogging in place the way, say, X-Files did.
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Sep 16, 2017 09:46
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dont even fink about it posted:The loss of the show forced the plot to advance to what was essentially its endpoint, after developing a solid season to launch off of and not having any chance whatsoever to overstay its welcome or begin jogging in place the way, say, X-Files did. Serenity is basically just Season Two as was planned but massively condensed. The series would've eventually had all out war with the Alliance. Etc. Also the Inara rape story is terrible but lots of terrible ideas are thrown around before a series takes shape. It probably never would of made it to air, in fact I'm fairly sure it evolved into the Reaver episode we did get. Some of the original Breaking Bad ideas where equally as awful for example.
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Sep 16, 2017 23:42
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I was outta this thread for a while and skipped about 50 pages. Was there any Harry Dean Stanton chat pre- page 300? I was joking with people about 'huh, two Alien actors dead in 2017, in the order they were offed in the movie. Tom Skerritt better watch his back.'
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Sep 17, 2017 00:14
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Veronica Cartwright and Sigourney Weaver are young enough (relative to the rest of the cast) to be the last two to go out, too.
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Sep 17, 2017 05:48
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Donnerberg posted:Wasn't there a rape scene in Buffy too? I vaguely remember an interview with the frosted tips vampire where he said he was forced to do the scene despite vehemently protesting it. Ugh. Late Buffy is really about tearing down the character in ways that isnt fun. The Body probably starts this, as good as that episode is, and it's just a series of things to clumsily show how so not a 'gift' the powers and lineage are. well why not posted:The three female leads from Firefly:
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Sep 19, 2017 06:27
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wyoming posted:Hahah, holy poo poo, gently caress Joss Whedon forever. The beauty part is, that quote doesn't name the female character, so you can safely assume it's all of them. It's not actually that bad, but Whedon and Firefly do have their flaws,
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Sep 19, 2017 07:45
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FilthyImp posted:Season, uh, 5 (the one where she gets yanked out of heaven) has the incredibly broken and toxic as gently caress 'relationship ' with Spike and Buffy as an amazingly bad D-Plot so it was probably one of those scenes where they're hatefucking. It reminds me of a criticism of Madoka a goon posted, that being that deconstructing a fantasy of female empowerment has the ugly side of basically making GBS threads all over a rare example of a fantasy which actually emphasizes women's agency. This is substantially more relevant when there isn't a whole genre with embedded regressive elements and interpretations to deconstruct, but rather your own freaking show which is lauded as the only one of its kind in its cultural context is the target instead.
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Sep 19, 2017 07:48
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mllaneza posted:The beauty part is, that quote doesn't name the female character, so you can safely assume it's all of them. It would basically have to be Inara. Sex drug that kills people who have sex with you is exactly the sort of place someone who would write that plot line would go with a geisha-esque character.
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Sep 19, 2017 07:53
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Yeah its obviously the prostitute chick. "Mal gets on his knee and treats her like a lady" is not gonna make sense wrt the other dudes wife, the chick who wants to gently caress the other guy, or the 14 yr old girl.
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Sep 19, 2017 08:12
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It's telegraphed from her first scene that the show was going to end up with her either dying, marrying Mal or most likely, both.
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Sep 19, 2017 19:34
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Didn't she have space cancer or something?
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Sep 20, 2017 00:18
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Snowman_McK posted:Didn't she have space cancer or something?
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Sep 20, 2017 00:21
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The prologue, the flute scene, and the 'who wrote Ozymandias' confrontation are my favorite moments of Alien Covenant. Michael Fassbender is an exceptionally good actor. It will be interesting to see how the sequel will play out if it gets made. Having the villain win at the end was a risky — and refreshing — direction to take; they could go in so many different directions with that cliffhanger.
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Sep 20, 2017 04:28
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Eh. "The monster wins in the end" is an old horror movie trope and not really all that refreshing.
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Sep 20, 2017 15:45
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Yeah but in the Alien series itself if there's a humanoid antagonist they get some pretty serious comeuppence.
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Sep 20, 2017 16:08
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biracial bear for uncut posted:Eh. "The monster wins in the end" is an old horror movie trope and not really all that refreshing. A reminder that even 'Alien' was originally going to end with the Alien biting Ripley's head off and then mimicking her voice to do the "signing off" transmission. Yesterday was my dad's birthday, I stopped my parents' house after and 'Aliens' happened to be on cable, so he and I sat and watched that. I can say with confidence that 'Aliens' is still a good movie.
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Sep 20, 2017 16:12
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They've been blasting Alien and Resurrection for the past couple weeks on Cinemax at the hotel I'm staying at and they totally hold up. Resurrection has its fun moments even if it's not objectively good.
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Sep 20, 2017 17:42
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20th Century Fox CEO Stacey Snider was recently asked about the future of the Alien films: http://variety.com/2017/film/features/stacey-snider-21st-century-fox-first-year-1202563799/ quote:"Alien: Covenant” stumbled at the box office. Is that franchise over? Ridley is still on it. 
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Sep 21, 2017 02:28
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Call the next movie David.
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Sep 21, 2017 02:41
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The problem in "finding the right story when it comes along" is that if you're gonna set up a multi-piece story, you'd better have the entire thing mapped out before you even start. Or else you end up with... what we got. And the last half of Battlestar Galactica. And I'll even put money on the next Star Wars movies.
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Sep 21, 2017 02:50
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The end is David taking his eggs into the Derelict ship and crashing in a suit of armor.
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Sep 21, 2017 02:51
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NarkyBark posted:The problem in "finding the right story when it comes along" is that if you're gonna set up a multi-piece story, you'd better have the entire thing mapped out before you even start. Or else you end up with... what we got. And the last half of Battlestar Galactica. And I'll even put money on the next Star Wars movies. I don't necessarily disagree, but I don't know how relevant that is here. Neither Prometheus or Covenant were multi-piece stories.
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Sep 21, 2017 02:52
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