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https://twitter.com/MiamiHerald/status/909157100709990400 Wunderground has it hitting PR as a Cat 3, apparently. Hopefully the models don't keep up.
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Sep 16, 2017 22:44
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Prester Jane posted:Hi. Just wondering if you were going to respond to anything I posted on this subject as an actual human being with a mental illness that has gone through exactly the scenario you are commenting on here. For the record I think "housing first" with heavy follow-up and supervised housing for those unable to handle living on their own is a great way to go about things. Lemming posted:You're framing your argument as if these things are free you loving vermin. Go crawl back into your filthy hole. Lemming posted:The problem is the people who repeatedly post in bad faith forever. There's no point in having a discussion if that's what's going on, and it derails other potential good conversation. Dead Reckoning fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Sep 16, 2017 |
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Sep 16, 2017 22:54
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Dead Reckoning posted:. Also whether it would be worthwhile to spend the money on that goal vs e.g. reducing greenhouse gas emissions so that we all don't die, but that's a broader question. An amoral sociopath posted:Given the expense and staffing required for Deteriorata's proposal, space would necessarily be limited, and given that it has no way to deal with the aforementioned problems, I would be skeptical that it could make a significant dent in the homeless/transient population of a major metro area. I literally came through a facility that does very much what Detioriata has laid out and it has had a massive impact on the numbers of homeless people wandering the streets of San Antonio. Finally you are clearly lying about working at a homeless shelter and are just making up stdh.txt horror stories in order to somehow lend credence to your amoral sociopathy with regards to people you regard as sub-human (the homeless). An amoral sociopath posted:Has it ever occurred to you that I'm not your enemy? I've spent my entire adult life in public services, and it's all I ever want to do. I want to help people and keep them safe. Strait up bullshit. You don't know the first goddamn thing about working with the actual homeless/mentally ill and the simplistic ideas you have and complete ignorance about current programs that are successfully being implemented to combat homelessness give you away. Prester Jane fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Sep 16, 2017 |
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Sep 16, 2017 23:02
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Party Plane Jones posted:https://twitter.com/MiamiHerald/status/909157100709990400 This is hurricane 5 now?
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Sep 16, 2017 23:09
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Dead Reckoning posted:Problem is, a lot of people think anyone who disagrees with them is posting in bad faith, because the idea that people might honestly have differing opinions and experiences never seems to cross their mind. Haha, sorry, no. You're just like the guy who shows up to the fascist protesting their free speech, waving Pepe around and then trying to deadpan "it's just a frog man".
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Sep 16, 2017 23:09
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Crabtree posted:This is hurricane 5 now? Franklin, Gert, Harvey, Irma, Jose, Katia so far
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Sep 16, 2017 23:14
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Dead Reckoning posted:Given the expense and staffing required for Deteriorata's proposal, space would necessarily be limited, and given that it has no way to deal with the aforementioned problems, I would be skeptical that it could make a significant dent in the homeless/transient population of a major metro area. San Antonio's homeless solution used as national model: San Antonio's local NBC affiliate posted:
Hey check it out Mr Expert- you don't know poo poo about what is actually happening at the national level w/r/t homeless treatment or research into what actually combats homelessness. Its almost like you are not arguing in good faith or something and are just making up whatever facts feel right to you.
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Sep 16, 2017 23:16
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Franklin, Gert, Harvey, Irma, Jose, Katia so far Where did Franklin and Gert hit?
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Sep 16, 2017 23:20
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How many juggalos even are there? Is being a Juggalo always about ICP or is it possible to be part of that community but not like the music? I'm just shocked that ICP would be popular enough for this to be a thing. The gang label is complete bullshit though so good on them for taking a stand, and the coverage so far has given positive vibes for them.
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Sep 16, 2017 23:21
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Crabtree posted:Where did Franklin and Gert hit? Franklin hit the Yucatan of Mexico, Gert hit fish.
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Sep 16, 2017 23:22
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Dead Reckoning posted:They aren't free, but they are the mechanisms we have chosen to deal with people who are routinely assaultive, larcenous, non-compliant, or unable to care for themselves through either mental or chemical incapacity. A group living situation as described has no way to deal with those people while maintaining its responsibility to provide a clean, safe and stable environment that fosters independence, and would end up shuttling them back to the current system. Deteriorata's proposal is expensive. Expense means limited space. Limited space means pressure to bounce out more difficult patients in order to make space for those likely to complete the program in two years. Oh word and you calculated how expensive the proposal is vs the current system, and that's why you're arguing against it? You have numbers and data to back up your argument? Oh, no, you obviously don't, because you're scum and you're just pulling poo poo out of your rear end and expecting us to take you seriously. gently caress you.
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Sep 16, 2017 23:23
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Prester Jane posted:So you are actually an amoral sociopath who will invoke a Malthusian big picture argument in order to justify refusing aid to the poor. "But guys what if helping the poor takes too many resources away from the rest of us and the human race all dies off" is some Gilded-age bullshit. Prester Jane posted:I literally came through a facility that does very much what Detioriata has laid out and it has had a massive impact on the numbers of homeless people wandering the streets of San Antonio. I never said I work in a homeless shelter. I work in EMS and come into contact with homeless and transient patients on a regular basis. Lemming posted:Oh word and you calculated how expensive the proposal is vs the current system, and that's why you're arguing against it? You have numbers and data to back up your argument? Dead Reckoning fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Sep 16, 2017 |
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Sep 16, 2017 23:26
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Dead Reckoning posted:How is that robber baron logic? You are worried that feeding the poor will somehow kill off the race because there are already too many poor and the money would be better spent on preserving the non-poor against the impacts of resource crises that having too many poor is about to cause. Yeah, refusing to feed a homeless American child today because of the problems climate change will be causing decades down the road is a perfectly normal argument that any empathetic human being would make. An amoral sociopath posted:Which is why I asked about effectiveness and metrics. Wrong. You asserted in complete ignorance that metrics and studies would bear your position out. Except that they don't and you refuse to address the posters who have linked you counter evidence. The actual studies and metrics reveal you to be completely wrong, you are arguing agaisnt helping poor people because of your personal paranoia that there are too many of them and they are somehow a threat to society. You need a new line of work because your present one is really loving with your head and making you believe some monstrous poo poo. In conclusion, go gently caress yourself you amoral sociopath.
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Sep 16, 2017 23:33
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Dead Reckoning posted:I never said I work in a homeless shelter. I work in EMS and come into contact with homeless and transient patients on a regular basis. There just might be some selection or other bias here. Doesn't explain your eagerness to smear right wing think tank feces on the walls though.
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Sep 16, 2017 23:34
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Dead Reckoning posted:I never said I work in a homeless shelter. I work in EMS and come into contact with homeless and transient patients on a regular basis. I linked to a report about Haven for Hope, a facility which is basically the Platonic ideal of what Detoriata is arguing for with a well-studied track record of success. It is in fact serving as a pilot program for multiple clones that are currently being constructed in a variety of major cities around the country. You would know this if you have bothered to click on the links provided instead of trying to argue that your confident ignorance should somehow be treated with respect. (Hint: it shouldn't and also gently caress you.) In conclusion shut the gently caress up about things which you know nothing about, you amoral sociopath. No one cares about why you know better than the experts and the people with direct living experience of the situation you are making ignorant assertions about.
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Sep 16, 2017 23:37
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Guess what, America has more than enough capacity to afford helping the homeless and our citizens and working towards combating climate change. But we won't and the least among us will continue to suffer.
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Sep 16, 2017 23:44
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I have some more information, in case anyone would like.  Here's an evidence roundup on Housing First programs: http://whatworksforhealth.wisc.edu/program.php?t1=109&t2=126&t3=89&id=349 This also contains implementation resources, for people looking to design their own programs (Deteriorata I'm looking at you).
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Sep 16, 2017 23:48
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WrenP-Complete posted:I have some more information, in case anyone would like. Hey, thank you. That will help quite a bit. Sorry about kicking off this whole derail, though.
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Sep 16, 2017 23:54
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Prester Jane posted:You are worried that feeding the poor will somehow kill off the race because there are already too many poor and the money would be better spent on preserving the non-poor against the impacts of resource crises that having too many poor is about to cause. WrenP-Complete posted:I have some more information, in case anyone would like.
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Sep 16, 2017 23:55
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Also I don't think EMS gives you any kind of insight into anything other than dealing with people in crisis who also happen to be homeless. Like you are totally full of poo poo regarding your experience because it's completely 100 percent bias to how you actually interact with the homeless. Your addressing a crisis not dealing with a homeless person.
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Sep 17, 2017 00:01
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Dead Reckoning posted:You know what? Screw you. If someone says, "hey you can feed this starving child right in front of you, or you can choose to prevent ten people on the other side of the planet from dying of preventable disease this year" it's not a failure of empathy if I pick the ten, it's a choice not to limit my empathy to what is right in front of me, not to limit my focus to immediate problems. I get that this issue is personal for you, but asking "would this be the best use of our limited resources?" isn't sociopathy, it's rationality. Lmfao yeah for every homeless person we don't help 10 people's lives get saved, that's exactly how it works you loving moron Edit: for every homeless person we leave on the street, ten cops get overtime for beating the poo poo out of them and locking them up, how dare you call me a sociopath for advocating for this Lemming fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Sep 17, 2017 |
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Sep 17, 2017 00:08
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Lemming posted:Lmfao yeah for every homeless person we don't help 10 people's lives get saved, that's exactly how it works you loving moron If he really is an EMT it makes sense from a privatized ambulance point of view. Having said that every EMT I've met willing to work for a private bus has been a well meaning libertarian
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Sep 17, 2017 00:11
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Dead Reckoning posted:How is that robber baron logic? I think climate change and environmental degradation is literally the most important issue we face as a country and a species, and if we don't get on top of it, millions of people and thousands of species are going to die. At best. Most of those people will be the poorest and most desperate ones. If IDGAF about the bottom 99%, I'd be saying we should pour money into SpaceX so Elon Musk can give us orbital Villa Straylight mansions to watch the carnage from. I forgot we can only solve one problem at once y'all e: Dead Reckoning posted:You know what? Screw you. If someone says, "hey you can feed this starving child right in front of you, or you can choose to prevent ten people on the other side of the planet from dying of preventable disease this year" it's not a failure of empathy if I pick the ten, it's a choice not to limit my empathy to what is right in front of me, not to limit my focus to immediate problems. I get that this issue is personal for you, but asking "would this be the best use of our limited resources?" isn't sociopathy, it's rationality. lmao yes policy is an either/or proposition we can only either feed starving children or do public health work on disease the only way you could say that you're arguing from a rational place is if you literally have no knowledge of the fact that governments can do more than one thing at once you do know that so you're really not arguing the smartest position with the given information so either you're a hopeless moron or a pathetic troll either way stone cold fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Sep 17, 2017 |
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Sep 17, 2017 00:18
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We could do something to actually help the homeless. On the other hand we could concoct weird trolley-problem hypotheticals to justify inaction and call it "rational".  USPOL is back baby.
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Sep 17, 2017 00:25
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Dead Reckoning posted:You know what? Screw you. If someone says, "hey you can feed this starving child right in front of you, or you can choose to prevent ten people on the other side of the planet from dying of preventable disease this year" it's not a failure of empathy if I pick the ten, it's a choice not to limit my empathy to what is right in front of me, not to limit my focus to immediate problems. I get that this issue is personal for you, but asking "would this be the best use of our limited resources?" isn't sociopathy, it's rationality. I love optimization as much as the next guy, but this isn't some complicated issue like health care with multiple providers, numerous services, unorthodox demand curves, etc. We can cure homelessness by building houses and giving them to people, none of that is particularly complicated. May be expensive, and may or may not cure other problems as a side effect, but even if you don't fix mental illness you've still cured homelessness for millions.
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Sep 17, 2017 00:28
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Mister Adequate posted:
I love the idea that Juggalos are roaming our nation's capital, aggressively hugging strangers and promoting a communal future.
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Sep 17, 2017 00:29
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Dead Reckoning posted:You know what? Screw you. This whole "getting morally outraged while being a sociopath" thing you have going is really something, I'll tell you what.
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Sep 17, 2017 00:30
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mdemone posted:I love the idea that Juggalos are roaming our nation's capital, aggressively hugging strangers and promoting a communal future. Yeah, my partner is out there and saw this cool sign!  Some more photos:  
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Sep 17, 2017 00:32
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Koalas March posted:Well I mean since the the new year I was drinking at least a pint almost every day. I got super drunk one night and had a meltdown about a person in my life, I broke a TV etc. It was very bad and I never want to do that again.   I mostly lurk but just wanted to say me too, exactly, to the pint-a-day/election bender/morning drinking/major personal crisis detail. I have six months next month and although the world's still a gigantic fuckoff mess I feel like it needs us to not be messes quite so much, so. Good for you, good for us. Carry on.
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Sep 17, 2017 00:41
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Party Plane Jones posted:https://twitter.com/MiamiHerald/status/909157100709990400 Holy poo poo  2017 sure is something else
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Sep 17, 2017 00:58
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Dead Reckoning posted:How is that robber baron logic? I think climate change and environmental degradation is literally the most important issue we face as a country and a species Didn't you vote against the Paris Agreement because of Her Emails?
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Sep 17, 2017 01:24
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Dead Reckoning posted:isn't sociopathy, it's rationality. Yes it is a failure of empathy. It's an abstraction used as an excuse allowing inaction.
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Sep 17, 2017 01:30
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Dead Reckoning posted:You know what? Screw you. If someone says, "hey you can feed this starving child right in front of you, or you can choose to prevent ten people on the other side of the planet from dying of preventable disease this year" it's not a failure of empathy if I pick the ten, it's a choice not to limit my empathy to what is right in front of me, not to limit my focus to immediate problems. I get that this issue is personal for you, but asking "would this be the best use of our limited resources?" isn't sociopathy, it's rationality. If there is a starving child in front of you and you can do literally anything to make that better and don't you are probably a monster, hope this helps.
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Sep 17, 2017 01:35
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Dead Reckoning posted:You know what? Screw you. If someone says, "hey you can feed this starving child right in front of you, or you can choose to prevent ten people on the other side of the planet from dying of preventable disease this year" it's not a failure of empathy if I pick the ten, it's a choice not to limit my empathy to what is right in front of me, not to limit my focus to immediate problems. I get that this issue is personal for you, but asking "would this be the best use of our limited resources?" isn't sociopathy, it's rationality. We have the resources to do both things. Actually we have the resources to do both of those things and a hell of a lot more. If you have to construct a bizarre hypothetical to justify arguing against utilizing a proven policy with proven good outcomes, you are way far afield from where you should be. You have made an error. You have either seriously messed up somewhere in your initial premises, or you just really desperately have some sort of need to go "well I wish we could help these people, but we can't so sucks to be them I guess." There is absolutely no reason why we as a society cannot choose to prioritize both domestic homelessness and foreign aid targeting any number of diseases. The issue is allocation of existing societal resources (which includes the totality of the economy, and not just federal/state/local budgets), not availability of resources. It is analogous to hunger - the issue is not really the amount of food produced globally, it is the allocation of that food, its waste and hoarding by people who already have what they need, corruption, and a lack of priorities. Similarly the money and resources to build cheap, minimal housing for the homeless exist - what is lacking is the political will to have governments use taxation to transfer that money for the purpose of aiding the homeless in this way. Martin Shkreli can go without his Wu-Tang album and a hundred people can be off the street. We have the ability to do this and do not. We can have the resources if we want to. They are in the economy. They exist. Asking "would this be the best use of our limited resources?" when the resources actually aren't that limited is not rationality, it's being obtuse. And constructing a scenario where the "rational" choice is to ignore the suffering that you can immediately solve in front of you, when the scenario is really a false choice anyway...I mean, you should take a step back and think about what that says about you.
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Sep 17, 2017 01:38
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spite house posted:
We're gonna make it, baby! Failure is not an option. I'm proud of you! If you ever need to chat, I'm here.
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Sep 17, 2017 02:09
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Fraction Jackson posted:We have the resources to do both things. Actually we have the resources to do both of those things and a hell of a lot more. Ding ding ding.
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Sep 17, 2017 02:10
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God drat.
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Sep 17, 2017 02:23
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Dead Reckoning posted:You know what? Screw you. If someone says, "hey you can feed this starving child right in front of you, or you can choose to prevent ten people on the other side of the planet from dying of preventable disease this year" it's not a failure of empathy if I pick the ten, it's a choice not to limit my empathy to what is right in front of me, not to limit my focus to immediate problems. I get that this issue is personal for you, but asking "would this be the best use of our limited resources?" isn't sociopathy, it's rationality. Dead Reckoning posted:This poo poo right here is why I can't take a lot of the more militant UHC advocates seriously. "Beep boop, just take. all the F-35 money and use it to buy healthcare. So simple." The F-35 program is our only option to recapitalize our fighblah blah blah
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Sep 17, 2017 02:48
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I know this is a little off topic and not related to homeless people, but I hear Levin types talk often about the national debt, and how going ever deeper into debt and never paying it back is a bad thing. I don't believe him, because there's no way it's that simple and I'm predisposed to not believe anything he says, But I can't put my finger on exactly why. Could someone help me out here? What prevents ever increasing debt from, for example, reaching a level of interest the US simply can't pay?
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Sep 17, 2017 02:49
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Lemming posted:Lmfao yeah for every homeless person we don't help 10 people's lives get saved, that's exactly how it works you loving moron stone cold posted:I forgot we can only solve one problem at once y'all Fraction Jackson posted:We have the resources to do both things. Actually we have the resources to do both of those things and a hell of a lot more.
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Sep 17, 2017 02:50
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