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KakerMix posted:You and I both know that a permanent structure sitting with a bunch of other permanent structures are deed restricted for reasons that a mobile vehicle shouldn't be. Deed restrictions exist to protect other people's private property from you bleeding over value loss things into theirs. A mobile vehicle (that is increasingly looked at as a disposable item even) doesn't have the same cachet as a house or condo, adding in the whole idea of car ownership (since its inception) being about the freedom it grants. Leased vehicles are a different beast of course since those are more like long-term rentals, but we're already starting to see laws being put forth that make it so manufactures can't lock independent shops and private individuals out of repairing their vehicles due to arbitrary restrictions set forth by manufactures to pad their bottom line. it is a battle that manufactures will lose and will have to find some other way to restrict users via some other aspect they'll dream up. A more comparable situation would be GM denying warranty claims and restricting track use in the purchase agreement. Or Ferrari denying that EDM artist from painting nyancat all over his car.
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Sep 17, 2017 20:09
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KillHour posted:Genesis has two grilles. This for non sporty cars: Oh like Honda did a decade ago LX  EX  Si 
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Sep 17, 2017 20:12
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Cars were so happy.
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Sep 17, 2017 22:34
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I'm not quite sure what you m
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Sep 18, 2017 00:34
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OXBALLS DOT COM posted:I got dinged in the parking lot once and Teslas are insanely expensive to fix I remember reading an article which mentioned a Tesla driving through a flooded area after a hurricane, and only losing a headlight.... which cost $3500 to replace. And speaking of expensive cars with self-driving capability, the 2018 Cadillac CT6 (the first vehicle offering that Supercruise thing they've been working on ) is due out soon. For those of you who haven't read about it, Supercruise is the highway autopilot system which doesn't demand that the driver touch the steering wheel while it's active. Instead, it uses a camera on the steering column to verify that the driver's eyes are on the road. It'll be fun to see when happens when the idiot masses get their hands on that:  At least the system is geofenced to divided highways deemed suitable for it (which have been LIDAR-mapped by Cadillac, kind of like the maps used for Google's research), so you won't have to worry about a truck turning in front of you and knocking your block off. Cockmaster fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Sep 18, 2017 |
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Sep 18, 2017 01:52
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I took my 32-year-old car to the store today and a thought occurred to me. I have a real concern with how modern cars are going to hold up after thirty years. Will all of today's cars be undrivable because the software that they run on is no longer supported? Will they run and drive but the big infotainment touchscreen is black forever? Will things mostly work except the subscription services, like Dodge's Uconnect? Will "factory restorations" be a thing of the past because "factory original" will mean nothing works? Will people be able to sell replica software suites?
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Sep 18, 2017 02:59
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I can't wait for us to have to install old software as virtual machines on new hardware. Maybe whatever the next next gen raspberry pi is will be able to talk CANBUS
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Sep 18, 2017 03:04
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The thing that will make or break it is whether 3d printing steps up to replace all this plastic especially interiors. I mean that poo poo will rot on the shelf too so new old stock will not really be a thing like it was on the older cars. If some unique plastic peice stops being made you are hosed. I also dont think custom interiors will look as good, it not like you can just run am aluminum dash panel and have it look alright like you could on an old hotrod. I think that right there is going to send a lot of these to the crusher compared to older models.
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Sep 18, 2017 03:56
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We're already seeing the early examples of this. Carphones and OnStar that depended on analog cell networks are completely useless.
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Sep 18, 2017 04:38
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IOwnCalculus posted:We're already seeing the early examples of this. Carphones and OnStar that depended on analog cell networks are completely useless. Just installed an LTE data module in my Tesla to replace the 3G unit it came with 2 years ago. As long as we treat cars as modular appliances and not something to suck consumers dry with repair and part costs and then demand people buy new ones as the old ones no longer work.
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Sep 18, 2017 11:46
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The Sicilian posted:Just installed an LTE data module in my Tesla to replace the 3G unit it came with 2 years ago. The irony of contrasting that statement with replacing a cellular data module, when the exact opposite is true of cellular phones, is not lost.
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Sep 18, 2017 19:46
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CornHolio posted:I took my 32-year-old car to the store today and a thought occurred to me. I have a real concern with how modern cars are going to hold up after thirty years. Will all of today's cars be undrivable because the software that they run on is no longer supported? Will they run and drive but the big infotainment touchscreen is black forever? Will things mostly work except the subscription services, like Dodge's Uconnect? I'm half expecting at some point new cars will end up like the new light bulbs and refrigerators and that stupid over-developed capri sun squeezer thing that went out of business, where if it can't connect to the internet and check for updates the car won't turn on. And if the website goes down for any reason or the manufacturer discontinues support after X number of years the car is bricked.
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Sep 19, 2017 05:25
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As Nero Danced posted:I'm half expecting at some point new cars will end up like the new light bulbs and refrigerators and that stupid over-developed capri sun squeezer thing that went out of business, where if it can't connect to the internet and check for updates the car won't turn on. I dunno....MegaSquirt's taking care of the whole obsolete EFI thing, so I expect aftermarket companies to cobble something for today's PCMs. Unless the automakers manage to kick "Right to Repair" square in its legislative dick.
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Sep 19, 2017 07:26
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Domestic Amuse posted:I dunno....MegaSquirt's taking care of the whole obsolete EFI thing, so I expect aftermarket companies to cobble something for today's PCMs. Unless the automakers manage to kick "Right to Repair" square in its legislative dick. The worry isn't so much the mechanicals, it's more your power window computer and the door handle control module.
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Sep 19, 2017 07:40
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Powershift posted:The worry isn't so much the mechanicals, it's more your power window computer and the door handle control module. That seems easy. It's just servos to command.
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Sep 19, 2017 08:18
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Yeah unless manufacturers go out of their ways to obfuscate everything, the electronics aren't too bad really. You'd need different skills and tools like oscilloscopes and logic analyzers but this poo poo is definitely fixable and hackable.
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Sep 19, 2017 09:19
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The thing that causes vehicle replacement right now isn't ability to repair, it's cost to repair - don't see why that will be particularly different in the future. Just because you can doesn't mean it makes economic sense.
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Sep 19, 2017 09:39
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Yeah, a ~$1000 suspension or brake rebuild, head gasket failure plus dilapidated seats and hosed headlining writes off many cars as soon as they're only worth 2000 or less.
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Sep 19, 2017 11:31
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:The thing that causes vehicle replacement right now isn't ability to repair, it's cost to repair - don't see why that will be particularly different in the future. I figure we're talking about keeping a future classic running in top shape long after OEM support has stopped, rather than just keeping some zero worth old banger barely running.
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Sep 19, 2017 11:55
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What's fascinating to me is that, for example, a 2017 Fusion may eventually seem to us like an old banger. You know how old cars look old? I wonder how cars will look 10 or more years from now that will make us think the same way about today's vehicles.
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Sep 19, 2017 13:02
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Michael Scott posted:What's fascinating to me is that, for example, a 2017 Fusion may eventually seem to us like an old banger. You know how old cars look old? I wonder how cars will look 10 or more years from now that will make us think the same way about today's vehicles. Oh, it's weird as hell going to the junkyard and seeing cars that I bought new, and plenty of others that I test drove new. I'll look inside and think "man, this is still pretty nice!" and it sits there rotting in the junkyard.
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Sep 19, 2017 13:09
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CornHolio posted:Oh, it's weird as hell going to the junkyard and seeing cars that I bought new, and plenty of others that I test drove new. I'll look inside and think "man, this is still pretty nice!" and it sits there rotting in the junkyard. One of my first cars was a 1986 Camaro, V6 with a 5 speed that my great-uncle bought new in Florida. LOL like any of those are going to make it! 
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Sep 19, 2017 13:14
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I love how you can tell some cars being sold right now are going to age pretty badly. And that some cars you thought were amazing 15 years ago now look like poo poo.
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Sep 19, 2017 13:37
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Olympic Mathlete posted:I love how you can tell some cars being sold right now are going to age pretty badly. And that some cars you thought were amazing 15 years ago now look like poo poo. This is every Renault since the Renault 4 and every Citroen since the DS except maximum 5 years rather than 15.
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Sep 19, 2017 14:25
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Finger Prince posted:I figure we're talking about keeping a future classic running in top shape long after OEM support has stopped, rather than just keeping some zero worth old banger barely running. You're not going to be to do that unless the car because iconic enough for 3rd party support to make a business venture out of it. OEM support often ends by about 10 years, unless there was a huge market somewhere and there's parts stocked up for that market. Even then it can dry up and a 3rd party has to clone stuff because the OEM isn't going to start up on old stuff. In the future - we're in dodgey ground already, because if we all end up electric, say for example petrol costs obscene amounts, then any recent car becomes trash. If the economy in the future is better than predicted and petrol is affordable and common, and there's nostalgic gen x or millennials, then some may want an iconic recent car. But that's a huge if. I thinks most cars built in the last decade days are going to be junk unless it's already supercar special (like the last of the big euro petrol cars), or when considering the lower budget, then something iconic like the last caddy of that model, last landcruiser, holden, last ford falcon ute with turbo barra etc . Fo3 fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Sep 19, 2017 |
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Sep 19, 2017 14:43
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Domestic Amuse posted:I dunno....MegaSquirt's taking care of the whole obsolete EFI thing, so I expect aftermarket companies to cobble something for today's PCMs. Unless the automakers manage to kick "Right to Repair" square in its legislative dick. Two problems here. One is emissions. Making megasquirt run an engine is one thing, but it's technically in violation of emissions regulations. It might pass a sniffer if you only have to go through that test, but it wouldn't pass a computer diagnostic or a visual. mobby_6kl posted:Yeah unless manufacturers go out of their ways to obfuscate everything, the electronics aren't too bad really. You'd need different skills and tools like oscilloscopes and logic analyzers but this poo poo is definitely fixable and hackable. And here's the other. Manufacturers are pushing the bounds on repairability. Now everything is run by computers which need to be keyed to the same VIN, have the same versions of firmware for compatibility, and maybe even encryption in the future to reduce the likelihood or severity of black hat CAN hacking. Remember how much work LloydDobler went through making his Volvo's computers play nice with a transmission swap?
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Sep 19, 2017 14:46
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IOwnCalculus posted:Two problems here. One is emissions. Making megasquirt run an engine is one thing, but it's technically in violation of emissions regulations. It might pass a sniffer if you only have to go through that test, but it wouldn't pass a computer diagnostic or a visual. Several first-world countries already have legal structures in place that make it difficult or expensive to keep cars on the road for a long time. The big ones I'm thinking of are Japan, with their over-the-top inspection that forces you to keep your car in decent shape, andFrance with Paris outright banning the operation of old cars from their streets. I bet the local car industries love this.
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Sep 19, 2017 14:57
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Twerk from Home posted:Several first-world countries already have legal structures in place that make it difficult or expensive to keep cars on the road for a long time. The big ones I'm thinking of are Japan, with their over-the-top inspection that forces you to keep your car in decent shape, andFrance with Paris outright banning the operation of old cars from their streets. Not to mention the switch to electrics further causing now new cars to become obsolete.
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Sep 19, 2017 15:23
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Twerk from Home posted:Several first-world countries already have legal structures in place that make it difficult or expensive to keep cars on the road for a long time. The big ones I'm thinking of are Japan, with their over-the-top inspection that forces you to keep your car in decent shape. I'm not so sure about this one. Outside of Tokyo (which seemed to be 80% Toyota Crowns of various types) there were lots of older cars on the road in Japan when I went last year. They don't just toss 'em away after 10 years.
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Sep 19, 2017 16:21
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Human Grand Prix posted:I'm not so sure about this one. Outside of Tokyo (which seemed to be 80% Toyota Crowns of various types) there were lots of older cars on the road in Japan when I went last year. They don't just toss 'em away after 10 years. Your annectdote doesn't ring true with reality. They place extremely high registration on cars after a certain period of years.
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Sep 19, 2017 16:25
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If it was sustainability we were truly after, wouldn't we want to stop buying new and keep the stuff we have on the road going for as long as possible?
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Sep 19, 2017 16:28
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It must not be that high if there is a bunch of pre-2007 poo poo running around, especially in the countryside. Everybody on the internet told me the Japanese didn't keep cars for a period of longer than 8 years.
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Sep 19, 2017 16:29
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I read that Toyota is gonna use their Gazoo Racing brand to make some new trim levels on existing cars. Supposedly three levels, one that's just suspension and cosmetic poo poo you can tack onto stuff like minivans and Priuses, second tier has things like aero, then third tier will actually affect performance. They're talking about a supercharged Yaris with 210hp. Seems like a step in the right direction.
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Sep 19, 2017 16:45
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So you'll have to spend $xxxx before you get anything worthwhile on your Yaris. *edit: full spec GRMN 'race' Yaris is £26,295 or $35.5k *buys old GT86 and supercharger kit and pockets the £10-15k difference* Olympic Mathlete fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Sep 19, 2017 |
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Sep 19, 2017 17:01
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davebo posted:I read that Toyota is gonna use their Gazoo Racing brand to make some new trim levels on existing cars. Supposedly three levels, one that's just suspension and cosmetic poo poo you can tack onto stuff like minivans and Priuses, second tier has things like aero, then third tier will actually affect performance. They're talking about a supercharged Yaris with 210hp. Seems like a step in the right direction. They should call such trims "gonzo"'s. "oh, you have m-sport trim? I have loving gonzo trim"
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Sep 19, 2017 17:06
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Olympic Mathlete posted:So you'll have to spend $xxxx before you get anything worthwhile on your Yaris. Hey I never said a sporty Toyota would be a good value. The solution is clearly to buy a used Toyota and speed it up, but at least if they make these there'll be 200+hp used Yarises out there and Priuses with huge spoilers for people to buy in 5 years when they come out with some newer overpriced idea.
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Sep 19, 2017 17:10
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In the background: cool poo poo you can't have In the foreground: the poo poo you'll get for your $35k. 
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Sep 19, 2017 17:22
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Michael Scott posted:What's fascinating to me is that, for example, a 2017 Fusion may eventually seem to us like an old banger. You know how old cars look old? I wonder how cars will look 10 or more years from now that will make us think the same way about today's vehicles. I was just musing about this while driving my AW11 behind a ~ '55 chevy truck. The bulk of the stuff in that truck is metal, and kept clean and painted will last forever. Whereas most of the stuff in my MR2 is plastic (brittle and UV sensitive at that). It's already 31 years old, will it make it to 62 years old?
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Sep 19, 2017 17:31
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I guess materials is inherent in what I was talking about, but the most striking and interesting to me part is the actual styling.
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Sep 19, 2017 17:32
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The Sicilian posted:Your annectdote doesn't ring true with reality. They place extremely high registration on cars after a certain period of years. No they don't, it's that older cars have to meet the same inspection standards as brand new cars. There isn't any 'high registration after a period of years' that poo poo starts immediately and holds steady. You buy a brand new car you get three years before your second inspection (first inspection is right when your brand new car is purchased). After that, two years like clockwork you get inspections that are just as rigorous on a 1985 as a 2005. This is why there is this idea that Japan doesn't keep older cars, it isn't that they intentionally take them off the road after X number of years it's that it becomes harder to justify keeping an older car on the road quicker than most other places. If your 1985 HiAce has an oil leak it becomes pretty easy to go 'gently caress it' and put it up for auction and buy a newer car that doesn't have an oil leak. There is no classic plates deal in Japan that I know of. Go to Japan and you are going to see all sorts of old poo poo driving around in pretty nice shape because someone wants to keep it around. Somehow lots of 25+ year old stuff ends up on the auction block every week so someone is keeping these vehicles around. The 83 Hijet I bought would still be legal in Japan until April of next year because someone liked it enough to keep it around, in running and inspection-worthy shape all these years. Michael Scott posted:I guess materials is inherent in what I was talking about, but the most striking and interesting to me part is the actual styling. Hummer H2s are totally going to be a gaudy classic sort of thing like the 50s cars with the fins. It perfectly captures just what was going on in the 2000s culturally in the US. We'll see one in 20 years and go "Wow I haven't seen one of those..." and have this unironic sort of nostalgia as we explain to all the kids around why you are paying attention to this hideous plastic-chromed yellow thing. KakerMix fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Sep 19, 2017 |
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Sep 19, 2017 17:34
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