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joepinetree posted:The US- Mexico border is already one of the most militarized borders in the world. Since 2008 the majority of new immigrants who are undocumented are people overstaying visas. And the deal explicitly excludes a wall. So the "border security" here comes through additional ICE agents and more enforcement and deportations. So a DACA for more ICE agents deal is essentially "you can stay but we will get more people to harass your parents." pointlessly militarized mind you
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Sep 18, 2017 22:52
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Yinlock posted:[extremely centrist-who-campaigned-on-anti-corruption-voice] getting rid of corruption is pointless because corruption will just come back, alright meeting over we're done here The Centrist position is to make corruption legal.
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Sep 18, 2017 22:53
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Chris Murphy 
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Sep 18, 2017 22:54
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zegermans posted:that since 2010, the bad Dem line on healthcare has been that we can't talk about improving the ACA because admitting that the ACA is anything less than absolute perfection might give ammo to Republican ACA repeal efforts after 2016, they extended that line of attack. now it's important that one hundred percent of our attention goes to resisting Republican repeal efforts, so we can't talk about literally anything else healthcare-related because that would somehow mean diverting attention and effort from opposing ACA repeal over the past couple months, as the single-payer stuff has been ramping up, the bad Dems have been slowly expanding that argument. so now it's "single-payer advocates are aiding GOP efforts to destroy the ACA by diverting Dem attention away from defending Obamacare"
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Sep 18, 2017 23:05
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docbeard posted:
My god, we're trapped in an insane experiment created by pretentious, unevenly self educated plutocrats.
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Sep 18, 2017 23:10
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The Centrist position is to make corruption legal.  : "We have to work with what we got. Too many people are holding out for the perfect of the enemy of the good."
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Sep 18, 2017 23:12
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The Centrist position is to make corruption legal. I've seen this seriously advocated by someone in grad school. Libertarian leaning centrist.
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Sep 18, 2017 23:14
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is it just me or does claire really dislike bernie? https://twitter.com/natesilver538/status/909883193129619456
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Sep 18, 2017 23:17
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She does it's been clear every time they've discussed Bernie on their podcast.
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Sep 18, 2017 23:24
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Wraith of J.O.I. posted:is it just me or does claire really dislike bernie? lol  Yes, Bernie would have won, but it has nothing to do with his message. pricelessz
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Sep 18, 2017 23:24
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Over Easy posted:lol it's almost like nothing matters
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Sep 18, 2017 23:27
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https://twitter.com/etc_politics/status/909890341951741952 lol just run in 2020 you idiot
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Sep 18, 2017 23:30
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Over Easy posted:lol is "Clinton fatigue" a more Clinton-friendly way of saying "the Clintons are pretty nakedly corrupt and people don't like that"
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Sep 18, 2017 23:31
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I like to check in on Eric every now and then. https://twitter.com/ericgarland/status/909841806938042368
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Sep 18, 2017 23:34
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Over Easy posted:lol hillary's problem in an electoral sense we're 75% because she was is a corrupt weirdo. you can pretend that leftism is secretly super popular in this insanely right wing country but issues aren't at all why she lost in that a non weirdo with exactly the same policy as clinton would have steamrolled.
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Sep 18, 2017 23:38
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Frijolero posted:There's a whole lotta "Ugh, Dems don't actually mean it when they say M4A." Yeah. What we're seeing is the way changes happen in a democracy; by convincing self serving politicians that it's in their best interest to do what we want. It doesn't really matter if they mean it in their hearts as long as they believe it's their best shot at staying in power.
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Sep 18, 2017 23:39
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Hillary Rodham Clinton posted:When it comes to some of my most controversial actions—like my vote giving President Bush the authority to go to war in Iraq—I was far from alone. That doesn’t make it right, but it also doesn’t explain the venom targeted at me specifically. Why am I seen as such a divisive figure and, say, Joe Biden and John Kerry aren’t? They’ve run for President. They’ve served at high levels of government. They’ve cast votes of all kinds, including some they regret, just like me. What makes me such a lightning rod for fury? I’m really asking. I’m at a loss. I'm glad as Hell I didn't vote for Clinton.
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Sep 18, 2017 23:42
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Bip Roberts posted:hillary's problem in an electoral sense we're 75% because she was is a corrupt weirdo. you can pretend that leftism is secretly super popular in this insanely right wing country but issues aren't at all why she lost in that a non weirdo with exactly the same policy as clinton would have steamrolled. Bernie would have campaigned and won safe blue states like Wisconsin/Michigan
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Sep 18, 2017 23:43
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it's really too bad that Gary Johnson kept Trump from winning Minnesota because God drat Hillary was a bad candidate
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Sep 18, 2017 23:44
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Raskolnikov38 posted:https://twitter.com/etc_politics/status/909890341951741952 haha! Shouldn't she have worked that out before Obama made her concede to Trump? How long is "contesting the election" on the table anyway? That poo poo was almost a year ago. It's never going to be over!
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Sep 18, 2017 23:44
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etalian posted:Bernie would have campaigned and won safe blue states like Wisconsin/Michigan He would have won them by not being a giant dork and a cool, relatable dude.
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Sep 18, 2017 23:44
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loquacius posted:is "Clinton fatigue" a more Clinton-friendly way of saying "the Clintons are pretty nakedly corrupt and people don't like that" no it means im tired of her go away hillary  i have the dengue fever of wonk policies
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Sep 18, 2017 23:44
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I am going to guess that this came about because someone extrapolated her diehard fans' reactions to Clinton memes, like  onto less committed sectors of the population, the way you might infer the level of diehard Republican support that won't ever go away by looking at the approval rating for Dick Cheney and Donald Trump. Maybe there's no point in guessing and Tiler Kiwi posted:clinton has a garbage fursona
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Sep 18, 2017 23:44
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:I'm glad as Hell I didn't vote for Clinton. As everyone knows, John Kerry's vote to go to war did not affect his Presidential campaign or the perception that he stood for absolutely nothing, because he's not Hillary Clinton, the most persecuted second-class citizen ever born
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Sep 18, 2017 23:44
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Bip Roberts posted:hillary's problem in an electoral sense we're 75% because she was is a corrupt weirdo. you can pretend that leftism is secretly super popular in this insanely right wing country but issues aren't at all why she lost in that a non weirdo with exactly the same policy as clinton would have steamrolled. lol presidential elections in any country is retarded because it's so personal that it's basically 90% personal charisma would I have a beer with this guy/lady and 10% whether the guy/lady is actually going to implement policies to help the country
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Sep 18, 2017 23:44
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:I'm glad as Hell I didn't vote for Clinton.
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Sep 18, 2017 23:45
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John Kerry's Iraq War vote was a big issue in 2004 and probably cost him the election.
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Sep 18, 2017 23:45
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Joementum posted:John Kerry's Iraq War vote was a big issue in 2004 and probably cost him the election. But he's not a "lightning rod for fury", except if you ask me (I am furious at John Kerry)
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Sep 18, 2017 23:46
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both of Obama's Secretaries of State were people who voted for the Iraq War this isn't new news, but it bears repeating
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Sep 18, 2017 23:49
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loquacius posted:But he's not a "lightning rod for fury", except if you ask me The 2004 DNC was one of the most embarrassing things ever broadcast on television. 
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Sep 18, 2017 23:51
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:
First, regret is not something for which people take politicians at their word. People look at actions. Joe Biden showed some resemblance of redemption by arguing against the Afghanistan troop surge, and he wasn't the one that continuously argued for a no-fly zone in Syria while using circuitous language to downplay the possibility it wouldn't escalate even more, without a declaration of war, than the no-fly zone in Libya, even though he was beside Obama on all the other things. It's not hard to see how those factors would lead dovish anti-interventionists to hold one of those personalities, the one running for president, closer to the fire than the other. Secondly, as Joementum said, John Kerry's "for it before he was against it" mattered in the 2004 general election, at which time Iraq War support was at a dead-even 50/50 tipping point.
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Sep 18, 2017 23:55
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galenanorth posted:First, regret is not something for which people take politicians at their word. People look at actions. Joe Biden showed some resemblance of redemption by arguing against the Afghanistan troop surge, and he wasn't the one that continuously argued for a no-fly zone in Syria while using circuitous language to downplay the possibility it wouldn't escalate even more, without a declaration of war, than the no-fly zone in Libya, even though he was beside Obama on all the other things. It's not hard to see how those factors would lead dovish anti-interventionists to hold one of those personalities, the one running for president, closer to the fire than the other. Secondly, as Joementum said, John Kerry's "for it before he was against it" mattered in the 2004 general election, at which time Iraq War support was at a dead-even 50/50 tipping point. 
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Sep 18, 2017 23:58
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As I understand it, the State Department is woefully understaffed and the Secretary of State is basically an inanimate object.
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Sep 18, 2017 23:59
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docbeard posted:As I understand it, the State Department is woefully understaffed and the Secretary of State is basically an inanimate object. 
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Sep 19, 2017 00:01
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lmebo
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Sep 19, 2017 00:04
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joe bidens big idea was to ethnically partition Iraq by force so let's not act like he wasn't a monster on the issue
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Sep 19, 2017 00:21
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Joementum posted:joe bidens big idea was to ethnically partition Iraq by force so let's not act like he wasn't a monster on the issue Bernie never owned slaves or voted to invade Iraq
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Sep 19, 2017 00:21
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Joementum posted:joe bidens big idea was to ethnically partition Iraq by force so let's not act like he wasn't a monster on the issue splitting up iraq by ethnic lines de facto if not de jure isn't necessarily bad imo
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Sep 19, 2017 00:22
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using the US military to create ethno-nation states is bad and I'm not going to debate this point because you are wrong if you think otherwise
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Sep 19, 2017 00:25
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Typo posted:splitting up iraq by ethnic lines de facto if not de jure isn't necessarily bad imo ya lets make iraq the new israel tired: israel-palestine wired: iraq ethno-states both scenarios, the kurds are wiped out, big league
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Sep 19, 2017 00:27
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