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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:by disconnecting calls for single payer from any larger socialist program, you're going to wind up with a scenario where by the neoliberal center decides to embrace the European consensus of single-payer healthcare, leading to a situation where the movement peters out upon its "success" instead of continuing to push for a change to the economic system that has hollowed out the middle class over the past 50 years and you thought hillary clinton was the best person to accomplish this lol why should anyone listen to anything you have to say after such a tremendous self own
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Sep 19, 2017 23:53
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There thousands of "What ifs" you can come up with for things like single-payer, UBI, ect. At the end of the day the concern should be taking care of everyone or at the very least making the lifes better for the majority of people.
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Sep 19, 2017 23:54
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Serf posted:its also pretty easily countered by just... y'know... not letting them do that Yeah I'm not even a very good leftist and the first thing that occurred to me was 'limit rent to a percentage of the tenant's income and make discrimination against people on the basis of income illegal."
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Sep 19, 2017 23:56
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SKULL.GIF posted:I'm saying that the guy who claimed that people would stop trying to "live above the baseline" after a few generations because of the declining psychological effect is completely wrong yeah i find that much easier to swallow
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Sep 19, 2017 23:56
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fits my needs posted:https://mobile.twitter.com/thehill/status/910272319058300930 extremely Putinishly:] 
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Sep 19, 2017 23:57
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Venom Snake posted:There thousands of "What ifs" you can come up with for things like single-payer, UBI, ect. At the end of the day the concern should be taking care of everyone or at the very least making the lifes better for the majority of people. Seriously, start somewhere. Get yer heads out of the clouds with the what-ifisms. I'm glad there's a cranky maple grandpa who is yelling so loud that the clouds evaporate as he brings it back to earth about "We need to talk about the issues facing America today." The fact that he constantly, constantly, constantly says "Let's talk about the issues" because people really love their tangents, good lord.
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Sep 19, 2017 23:59
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Venom Snake posted:There thousands of "What ifs" you can come up with for things like single-payer, UBI, ect. At the end of the day the concern should be taking care of everyone or at the very least making the lifes better for the majority of people. like lastgirl said, most of the time when large sea changes in government have been successful its been through trial and error. one of the biggest problems the dems and the left have is that we think we can actually come up with a perfect plan ahead of time, figure out all the details, get everything sorted and then carefully step forward reevaluating at every step of the process and always have a strategy to just pull the whole thing and give up so nobody has to commit to far into anything, and because we were smart enough and had enough foresight and planned for long enough everything will just fall into place mechanistically. out in the huge country we live in there are so many scenarios, so many localities, so much infighting and white noise on a local level, so much you can't plan for those things. the larger federal organization should be dictating the terms for success (and not just providing block grants and going "now make healthcare good", but really dictating the ideals of the system and holding themselves accountable financially to those dictates) and the timelines that are needed and saying "now you, the organs of local democracy are responsible on how to provide this service YOU ABSOLUTELY MUST PROVIDE AT THIS LEVEL OF QUALITY to your people" the aca failed largely because it fell victim to the obama hillary wing of the party and their obsession with woking everything to death and assuming that with a sufficient level of wonkiness and expertise everything would just work. does this food court have a popeyes???????
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Sep 20, 2017 00:04
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babypolis posted:and you thought hillary clinton was the best person to accomplish this lol I didn't think accomplishing anything positive was at all possible in the 2016 election, actually
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Sep 20, 2017 00:07
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is it ironic that wonk refers to someone who gets bogged down in the details but wonky refers to something that just isn't quite right or is that just correct
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Sep 20, 2017 00:08
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I think it's interesting that DSA's numbers didn't swell until Trump won instead of when Bernie lost
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Sep 20, 2017 00:09
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:I think it's interesting that DSA's numbers didn't swell until Trump won instead of when Bernie lost It's almost as if Trump's belligerence as president over the last several months have pushed people further left as a result after Hillary's failure to secure the presidency  basically, shut the gently caress up
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Sep 20, 2017 00:12
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i think it's interesting that people still defend centrism itt. edit: wait, no i don't. that's the wrong word.
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Sep 20, 2017 00:12
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Jazerus posted:honestly i would feel far more demeaned doing pointless makework for my ubi than just, y'know, receiving it and channeling my productivity toward something better 
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Sep 20, 2017 00:14
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:I think it's interesting that DSA's numbers didn't swell until Trump won instead of when Bernie lost i still dont give a single poo poo about bernie sanders but holy moly imagine being mad at him
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Sep 20, 2017 00:16
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i mean, bernie is fine i guess
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Sep 20, 2017 00:17
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Al! posted:i mean, bernie is fine i guess bernie is a compromise candidate
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Sep 20, 2017 00:18
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a compromise candidate that would have won
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Sep 20, 2017 00:18
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Al! posted:i mean, bernie is fine i guess youre fine i guess!!!!!!! 
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Sep 20, 2017 00:19
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Al! posted:like lastgirl said, most of the time when large sea changes in government have been successful its been through trial and error. one of the biggest problems the dems and the left have is that we think we can actually come up with a perfect plan ahead of time, figure out all the details, get everything sorted and then carefully step forward reevaluating at every step of the process and always have a strategy to just pull the whole thing and give up so nobody has to commit to far into anything, and because we were smart enough and had enough foresight and planned for long enough everything will just fall into place mechanistically. couldn't have said it better tbh  and no there's only a Nandos m8
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Sep 20, 2017 00:19
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hillary clinton, agent of the kremlin!!!!
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Sep 20, 2017 00:20
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Al! posted:i still dont give a single poo poo about bernie sanders but holy moly imagine being mad at him I'm mad!!!! about everything
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Sep 20, 2017 00:20
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:I'm mad!!!! about everything if youre mad about your posting you can fix that u know
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Sep 20, 2017 00:21
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:I'm mad!!!! about everything obviously, go run along and tell your facebook leftist group about how mad you are at this one dearest.  im sure one of them will tell you to go away and go to this thread to be mad at, leaving you trapped hillarishly oscillating between the two foreverially.
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Sep 20, 2017 00:22
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Lastgirl posted:obviously, go run along and tell your facebook leftist group about how mad you are at this one dearest. oh man i made a post about it and i hit send but it sent me to preview accidenta,ly!!! and they diddnt even ask if i want fries with omg what is the world coming 2
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Sep 20, 2017 00:23
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im so mad about my posts that i went back and had to ninja edit to make my points more succinct!! e: I'm*
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Sep 20, 2017 00:24
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icq mad
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Sep 20, 2017 00:25
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Lastgirl posted:im so mad about my posts that i went back and had to ninja edit to make my points more succinct!! b u t a r e y o u t o o m a d f o r f r i e d t a t e r s
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Sep 20, 2017 00:27
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watching the got episode where ramsay berniesplains sansa
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Sep 20, 2017 00:28
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https://twitter.com/mmccxii/status/910261744521457665 what the gently caress is this
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Sep 20, 2017 00:32
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Spring Break My Heart posted:watching the got episode where ramsay berniesplains sansa https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzyA_vx_HuM
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Sep 20, 2017 00:32
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:https://twitter.com/mmccxii/status/910261744521457665 journalists still consider themselves the left for some reason
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Sep 20, 2017 00:37
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:https://twitter.com/mmccxii/status/910261744521457665 use drum's tweet, which got ratio'd https://twitter.com/kdrum/status/910266083550130176
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Sep 20, 2017 00:38
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Al! posted:journalists still consider themselves the left for some reason after people divvy up the money, journalists are left 
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Sep 20, 2017 00:38
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Al! posted:journalists still consider themselves the left for some reason the media is to the right of reagan
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Sep 20, 2017 00:39
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anime was right posted:the media is to the right of reagan rush limbog is a centrist
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Sep 20, 2017 00:40
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:I think it's interesting that DSA's numbers didn't swell until Trump won instead of when Bernie lost It was not clear to anyone exactly how useless third-wayism had become until it put Trump in the White House Including me, honestly; all I knew before was that I was mad
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Sep 20, 2017 00:43
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Taintrunner posted:privatized fire departments became a public service when capital realized that raging fires in urban areas got in the way of generating wealth for the capital holders did a bit of googling, and yeah, you nailed it the first publicly funded fire department in the US was founded at the urging of an industrialist whose factory had been destroyed in a fire naturally, that same industrialist also manufactured fire engines, which he sold to the city at full price. he also got to be chief of the fire department wouldn't be at all surprised if there were some bribes involved
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Sep 20, 2017 01:02
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Wraith of J.O.I. posted:use drum's tweet, which got ratio'd ah, I was looking for a @motherjones tweet. my bad
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Sep 20, 2017 01:02
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Wraith of J.O.I. posted:use drum's tweet, which got ratio'd imagine paying kevin drum for these lovely takes
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Sep 20, 2017 01:02
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im united in opposition to that fat person's bangs
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Sep 20, 2017 01:04
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