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il serpente cosmico posted:Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't exchanges the only practical way to store and buy bitcoins? Yes, you are very much entirely wrong about how this technology works. In fact what you are suggesting is the least safe way to store your crypto-trinkets.
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Sep 21, 2017 21:31
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kw0134 posted:Surely the leading crypto currency exchange has made such a contingency to make its creditors whole! At least one wallet service has FDIC coverage for USD balances, and separate insurance for coins. I was surprised. https://support.coinbase.com/customer/portal/articles/1662379-how-is-coinbase-insured- I think Coinbase is in fact the leading exchange at this point.
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Sep 21, 2017 21:35
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Subjunctive posted:At least one wallet service has FDIC coverage for USD balances, and separate insurance for coins. I was surprised. Yeah, this surprised the hell out of me too.
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Sep 21, 2017 21:53
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Nail Rat posted:Jesus if the car was worth about 6k and your client is cashing out what was 6k worth of bitcoins in 2012... Makes the 50 bitcoins that I spent on chinese psychedelic research chemicals back in like 2008 seem like an even more questionable decision. Possibly even... Bad With Bitcoin.
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Sep 21, 2017 21:54
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Chadzok posted:Makes the 50 bitcoins that I spent on chinese psychedelic research chemicals back in like 2008 seem like an even more questionable decision. *record scratch Chadzok posted:"I bet you're wondering how I got to this point in the BWM thread. Well, friends.....it all starts in 2008." *Pet Shop Boy's Opportunities starts playing
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Sep 21, 2017 21:59
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Phanatic posted:Actual banks don't have anywhere near the capability to fund withdrawals. That is what fractional-reserve banking means. At the same time, banks have FDIC insurance to protect depositors. How common is it for bitcoin services to provide meaningful insurance? Motronic posted:Yes, you are very much entirely wrong about how this technology works. In fact what you are suggesting is the least safe way to store your crypto-trinkets. Where does your average buttcoin owner keep his/her make-believe money? How do they exchange it for real money? How much real money can you get from your buttcoin collection per day? il serpente cosmico fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Sep 21, 2017 |
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Sep 21, 2017 22:18
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FDIC insurance doesn't cover anything but people's chequing or cash savings accounts. Their equities in retirement funds aren't insured at all, even if held with a FDIC member institution. What Coinbase provides is pretty much equivalent if not better (coin holdings are insured as well), and there's no reason not to use them that I've heard.
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Sep 21, 2017 22:26
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Storing your bitcoins on an exchange instead of in a wallet file on your computer(which is also quesionably secure but for different and more controllable reasons since it's on your own computer) is the least safe way since exchanges inevitably end up folding, then taking everyone's stored funny money tokens with them. Or taking everyone's coins and then folding. The order doesn't matter much. That doesn't mean the average butter is smart enough to keep their coins out of the exchanges, but that's part of why exchanges going down destabilizes the value so much.
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Sep 21, 2017 22:27
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No, the safest place is with an insured wallet service.
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Sep 21, 2017 22:31
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Good lord, if you've all got hardons for buttcoin then there's a perfectly fine gibbis thread you can all circlejerk in. Touching buttcoin is inherently BWM and anyone saying "gee I wish I'd bought some/gee I guess I should buy some" automatically qualifies for being posted in this thread but from the looks of it that would spawn pages and pages of no-content, so can Leon Trotsky just find another rich vein to tap or someone post about beanie babies or something?
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Sep 21, 2017 22:32
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kw0134 posted:However, a bank is typically not in fact insolvent and there are rules for winding down a bank in a non catastrophic way that ensures depositors are made whole, below a certain amount per account. Bank runs don't really happen in life any more. This is false, any bank failure of any significant size would immediately make the FDIC insolvent and require an act of congress (lol) to make depositors whole. Bitcoin is still horseshit, but your deposit guarantee is near meaningless as well. Fortunately nobody knows that and there's not really a better option for safe liquid cash so... 
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Sep 21, 2017 22:33
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKOasFe_E6w
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Sep 21, 2017 22:36
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Using my own story as a lived example, once I realised how much my ancient drug habit was worth (to a huge bunch of morons) I scoured all my old email addresses for any evidence that could connect the dots to leftover funds. Pretty sure it was in an account with MtGox, maybe some in Silk Road, which both either stole it all or were raided by the feds. I think there was some sort of lawsuit to recover funds from MtGox but I missed the boat on that one too. If I had stored it in an offline wallet or a piece of paper or some crap I'd probably be posting in /bitcoin instead of here. or crying in Solice Kirsk's office. Chadzok fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Sep 21, 2017 |
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Sep 21, 2017 22:37
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For some reason everyone does it for bitcoin but nobody looks at a Morningstar annual performance chart and says, "drat, wish I'd bought [any S&P 500 fund or stock] 9 years ago." Hell I could look at NVidia 1-2 years ago, which cratered hugely and then had like a 200% performance increase in one year, and say the same thing. Kicking yourself for not having perfect futurevision on extremely risky investments is a waste of time.
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Sep 21, 2017 22:44
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cumshitter posted:Kicking yourself for not having perfect futurevision on extremely risky investments is a waste of time. I read an article some time ago about what would happen if you had perfect fore(hind?) sight and could invest in the best performing stock daily. The result was absurd. It was also in stocks you would almost never buy. Suffice it to say, kicking yourself for not being able to predict the future is stupid.
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Sep 21, 2017 22:55
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I predict three more pages of bitcoin talk.
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Sep 21, 2017 23:10
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Subjunctive posted:FDIC insurance doesn't cover anything but people's chequing or cash savings accounts. Their equities in retirement funds aren't insured at all, even if held with a FDIC member institution. There is a similar insurance for securities called SIPC, which all brokers in the US are required to have. It covers investors if the brokerage is insolvent or the securities themselves are stolen or fraudulently traded (but not market losses). The Coinbase insurance is I Can't Believe It's Not SIPC. cumshitter posted:Kicking yourself for not having perfect futurevision on extremely risky investments is a waste of time. It's also a massive red flag for gambling addiction!
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Sep 21, 2017 23:13
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Space Gopher posted:There is a similar insurance for securities called SIPC, which all brokers in the US are required to have. It covers investors if the brokerage is insolvent or the securities themselves are stolen or fraudulently traded (but not market losses). The Coinbase insurance is I Can't Believe It's Not SIPC. Cool, thanks! I wonder what the limits are. Also: buy my Marty McFly Volatility Index ETF. Past results are in fact exactly predictive of future performance.
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Sep 21, 2017 23:36
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Pryor on Fire posted:This is false, any bank failure of any significant size would immediately make the FDIC insolvent and require an act of congress (lol) to make depositors whole. Contrast this to say, Bitfinex, which decided to give everyone who held an account a 30% haircut when their bitcoin wallet was breached ("breached"). They were also allegedly insured. Where was that insurance? gently caress you, that's why. The reason you don't hear about stuff like SIPC is because your losses in the the market are entirely your own; the value of a security goes down, companies go bankrupt., etc. You didn't lose your 401k because Bob from accounting let his password be Default123 and let all your index funds be irrecoverably transferred to an account in Djibouti. Such occurrences seem to happen with hilarious regularity in cryptocurrency land, and that doesn't even get into trading losses because it's volatile to the point of insanity.
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Sep 22, 2017 00:42
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kw0134 posted:Yes, and that's why all those banks that died during the Great Recession caused trillions in depositor losses and...no wait, that didn't happen, because the FDIC guarantees weren't tested since solvent banks brought the assets when regulators wiped out the equity holders and pushed the liabilities that were insured into functional institutions. Banking stability is more than the insurance fund, it's an interlocking series of organizations and regulations that can say "no, we're not going to let these guys implode." And, yeah, Lehman blowing up like the way it did was a massive mistake, one that wasn't repeated during the crisis, when failing institutions were matched to buyers or entirely taken over. Yeah, but wasn't the FDIC fund pretty much exhausted? Obviously the government can and did ensure it remained solvent and even doubled the insured totals to calm any jitters. But it wasn't quiet as simple as arranging sales of failed banks to healthy ones. Smaller banks didn't have enough assets to cover the losses. I think my state was ground zero for failed banks, so I know we were draining that FDIC account. People always talk about Lehman, but no one remembers Bear Stearns. I worked as a bank teller in an office building during the go-go 90's and holy poo poo the checks the Bear Stearns brokers brought down. During tax season they'd bring down their refund checks and that was how I learned that if the government owes you enough money, they pay you interest on top of your refund.
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Sep 22, 2017 01:20
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Krispy Kareem posted:Yeah, but wasn't the FDIC fund pretty much exhausted? Obviously the government can and did ensure it remained solvent and even doubled the insured totals to calm any jitters. But it wasn't quiet as simple as arranging sales of failed banks to healthy ones. Smaller banks didn't have enough assets to cover the losses. I think my state was ground zero for failed banks, so I know we were draining that FDIC account. All banks pay premiums into the FDIC fund and yes it was drawn down quite a lot. Maybe to around 20 - 25% of its peak. Still nothing compared to the guarantees offered to Fanny and Freddie, and it wasn't *that* close to running out.
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Sep 22, 2017 01:26
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Subjunctive posted:Cool, thanks! I wonder what the limits are. edit: Worded that poorly, upto $500k in securities and cash with a $250k limit on cash. Solice Kirsk fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Sep 22, 2017 |
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Sep 22, 2017 01:34
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totalnewbie posted:I read an article some time ago about what would happen if you had perfect fore(hind?) sight and could invest in the best performing stock daily. The result was absurd. It was also in stocks you would almost never buy. http://investorfieldguide.com/201484the-perfect-portfolio/ is the one I found while looking for this article you mentioned
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Sep 22, 2017 01:36
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totalnewbie posted:I read an article some time ago about what would happen if you had perfect fore(hind?) sight and could invest in the best performing stock daily. The result was absurd. It was also in stocks you would almost never buy. They had a documentary about it called Early Edition. Basically, the SEC assumes it's insider trading. You can't really take advantage of it.
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Sep 22, 2017 01:39
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:They had a documentary about it called Early Edition. Yeah but assuming you were actually just psychic, I would be interested to see how the SEC could prove that you had insider information on all the random companies you'd end up buying/selling EACH DAY. Completely irrelevant point, though. Found the article I was thinking of: https://qz.com/583202/you-could-have-turned-1000-into-trillions-by-perfectly-trading-the-sp-500-in-2015/
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Sep 22, 2017 02:26
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totalnewbie posted:Yeah but assuming you were actually just psychic, I would be interested to see how the SEC could prove that you had insider information on all the random companies you'd end up buying/selling EACH DAY. Completely irrelevant point, though. It's called probabilistic prosecution
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Sep 22, 2017 02:40
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Subjunctive posted:Cool, thanks! I wonder what the limits are. Time travel as discovered by investment firms when they try and earn a bunch of money fast.
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Sep 22, 2017 02:41
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Bhodi posted:this makes me wonder how often statistically overperformers are tracked. It would be simplistic in the extreme for an investment company to do a search and find the top dozen best "guessers". Once you filter out all the politicians who are legally allowed to insider trade, you might see some interesting things! This is still assuming past performance implies future ones without any solid backing to base that assumption on. Like you can easily find the person who's had the best luck with the lottery so far, but that's not indicative they'll continue that streak.
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Sep 22, 2017 02:46
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totalnewbie posted:Yeah but assuming you were actually just psychic, I would be interested to see how the SEC could prove that you had insider information on all the random companies you'd end up buying/selling EACH DAY. Completely irrelevant point, though. The Early Edition basically was the equivalent of psychic. They still arrested Chuck after just one trade.
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Sep 22, 2017 02:49
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il serpente cosmico posted:Where does your average buttcoin owner keep his/her make-believe money? How do they exchange it for real money? How much real money can you get from your buttcoin collection per day? I was not speaking to cashing it out.......you're on your own there and other posters have spoke about it. But the way it works is you can make a "wallet" to send pretend money to. If you do it the right way it's not currently subject to many of the concerns happening with keeping it in a wallet on an exchange. This is a fundamental part of the technology that actually works. Exchanges came way later in fact. Using it as real money......yeah, not so much. But I did make a point of understanding how it works several years ago when it became popular. And this: Subjunctive posted:What Coinbase provides is pretty much equivalent if not better (coin holdings are insured as well), and there's no reason not to use them that I've heard. This I did not know about, because I don't care about it anymore. It's interesting, but at the same time I'm very suspicious that it will pay out in a mass breach.
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Sep 22, 2017 03:17
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Barry posted:Anyone have a link to the Blockchain book? Sounds interesting. https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/book/ Slightly less power than North Korea. Somewhere between Turkmenistan and Zambia the last I heard.
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Sep 22, 2017 03:55
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buttcoin is boring, thread needs to stick to its roots https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/forum/discussion-forums/off-course/9875675-balancing-the-horse-budget throwingawaymy$$$ posted:Hi everyone, so I'm wrestling with some financial issues related to my horse, and would love some input from other (read: older and wiser) people who still understand my passion and goals for my hobby. She's struggling to pay for her horse's training, but she's about to start traveling for her job so the horse "needs" to be in full training then because she won't be able to ride him as often, but since the job will pay more it'll balance out! One more for good measure https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/forum/off-topic/off-topic-aa/9838031-help-with-drafting-a-budget-saving-money-long-term halt posted:I could use the COTH mind to help me form a viable, doable budget.. I make more than TWICE minimum wage and I still can't afford to put away a decent amount of money and it is making me so anxious. Horse dril later explains herself quote:As far as the grain goes, it sounds astounding but it's split between a few other horses as well. It is hay stretcher and a high quality ration balancer, and it's about $41~ every five to six days, some weeks it is less because we feed less ration balancer than hay. He gets about 2qts hay stretcher and 2qts ration balancer AM/PM. The hay is split as well, but I get round bales which significantly cuts my costs. My horse could not eat an entire round bale himself before it went bad anyway. I could not afford a horse if I had to board. I've already whittled my riding expenses down to the bare minimum to be able to afford the horse. I've gone back and forth with my SO about selling him but my partner always dissuades me and reminds me how important horses are in my life.. but they're so drat expensive. Ugh.
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Sep 22, 2017 04:06
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The horse is bad, but I'm a bit more concerned about rent/utilities eating up more than 50% of her take home. Either move somewhere a bit cheaper, or come up with set amounts to pay each month. blackmet fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Sep 22, 2017 |
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Sep 22, 2017 04:29
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Having three animals think of ants and die would be the biggest windfall for these people.
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Sep 22, 2017 04:41
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Panfilo posted:Having three animals think of ants and die would be the biggest windfall for these people. Four words: premium horse funeral service. Do it, capitalism. I dare you.
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Sep 22, 2017 04:52
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blackmet posted:The horse is bad, but I'm a bit more concerned about rent/utilities eating up more than 50% of her take home. Oh for sure, but I like the fact that she thinks owning a horse is non-negotiable because it's her ~therapy~. And that she didn't include inevitable horsey medical bills (horses seem to aim for getting injured in the most expensive way possible), annual vet/horse dentist visits, regular deworming, tack replacement, grooming supplies, etc etc etc. which add up really fast. Take the horse out of the equation and make boyfriend pay part of the rent and the budget problem is solved. Also lol that she thinks she was Good With Money because she had a few thousand dollars in her bank account.
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Sep 22, 2017 04:53
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Breetai posted:Four words: premium horse funeral service. Oh, horse burial expenses (and even the cost just to remove the body from the premises) are already "premium" as it is. Consider how big a hole you have to dig. The only cheap way to deal with a dead horse is to send it to a rendering plant (aka "glue factory").
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Sep 22, 2017 05:03
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That's why you invest in horse life insurance!
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Sep 22, 2017 05:37
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Panfilo posted:That's why you invest in horse life insurance! Wonder what kinds of riders they offer.
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Sep 22, 2017 06:04
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Youth Decay posted:She's struggling to pay for her horse's training, but she's about to start traveling for her job so the horse "needs" to be in full training then because she won't be able to ride him as often, but since the job will pay more it'll balance out! No defense of the human intended but don't horses need exercise every day? Youth Decay posted:Also lol that she thinks she was Good With Money because she had a few thousand dollars in her bank account. Depressingly that probably puts her well above average in savings nationally. Most of those people behind her aren't even BWM, it's just rough out there.
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Sep 22, 2017 06:28
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