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The answer to the question, did incel have *common formative experience*? is always no.
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Sep 21, 2017 20:17
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hyphz posted:True, but it's also notable that any guy asking for advice on how to be more attractive is always given advice that works towards the bodybuilder jock standard. The other types seem to be very weakly defined. "Get into shape" isn't the same thing as "gotta be Mr. Universe"
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Sep 21, 2017 20:20
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LanceHunter posted:Well, it looks like some shithead incel graduated to attempted rapist last week. Attacked a woman on the city's hike and bike trail. Fortunately, he got stopped when a passer-by confronted him (and the cops were able to find and arrest him). rape seems to unfortunately be the logical conclusion to their mental degradation. either that or suicide
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Sep 21, 2017 20:20
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Zzulu posted:rape seems to unfortunately be the logical conclusion to their mental degradation. either that or suicide I figure more the former than the latter. Narcissism really doesn't like to snuff itself out.
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Sep 21, 2017 20:22
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fruit on the bottom posted:"Get into shape" isn't the same thing as "gotta be Mr. Universe" No, but it's read as "fitter = more attractive" and extrapolated to "massive bodybuilder = pinnacle of fitness = pinnacle of attractiveness".
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Sep 21, 2017 20:26
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hyphz posted:No, but it's read as "fitter = more attractive" and extrapolated to "massive bodybuilder = pinnacle of fitness = pinnacle of attractiveness". Not really
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Sep 21, 2017 20:28
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hyphz posted:No, but it's read as "fitter = more attractive" and extrapolated to "massive bodybuilder = pinnacle of fitness = pinnacle of attractiveness". 
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Sep 21, 2017 20:30
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hyphz posted:True, but it's also notable that any guy asking for advice on how to be more attractive is always given advice that works towards the bodybuilder jock standard. The other types seem to be very weakly defined. There are other ways to be more attractive (the male makeup tips videos on youtube are revelatory, especially the ones that show how to have a "natural" look) that they could try, but something about the inherent misogyny of this group makes me doubt they'll go for it.
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Sep 21, 2017 20:30
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saying "get in some semblance of shape, like, can do an activity more physical than computer touching without passing out" is not saying every guy needs to be jacked, and it's not the fault of the advice giver that incels' black and white thinking turns it into "only ahnold gets laid, ever"
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Sep 21, 2017 20:37
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Improbable Lobster posted:Not really It may not be correct, but that is how that is understood when given as advice. And the "black and white thinking" is the result of the motivational deterministic representation of persuasion ("if you do X and Y then you will get a girlfriend" - not the true "you might") which is encouraged by the same thing.
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Sep 21, 2017 20:37
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hyphz posted:No, but it's read as "fitter = more attractive" and extrapolated to "massive bodybuilder = pinnacle of fitness = pinnacle of attractiveness". There's a term for this. I can't remember what it is, but I keep jumping between slippery slope and reductio ad absurdum I don't think either of those are what I'm looking for but you get the idea.
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Sep 21, 2017 20:38
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Where did this idea that the majority of women like Ahnold-type bodies come from? Look at all the "hottest" male celebrities - most of them have toned muscles, not bulging ones. My working theory is that lots of men think "what would I like if I were attracted to men?" when they're trying to figure out what women want.
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Sep 21, 2017 20:46
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Narcissism seems to be the defining trait of these people, despite having a very low self-image, if that makes any sense. Whenever one of them posts a story about walking past a woman it's always super egotistical "she wouldn't stop staring at ME because she knows I'm an incel, she adjusted her skirt because she things ugly men like ME are rapists, everyone is always thinking about ME and ways to hurt ME." It never occurs to them that these people are probably paying zero attention to another stranger. I can't stop reading this poo poo, it's a fascinating window into mental gymnastics. RobotDogPolice fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Sep 21, 2017 |
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Sep 21, 2017 20:57
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LanceHunter posted:There are other ways to be more attractive (the male makeup tips videos on youtube are revelatory, especially the ones that show how to have a "natural" look) that they could try, but something about the inherent misogyny of this group makes me doubt they'll go for it. True. But. Is this really what we want as a society? For men to be made to wear makeup rather than getting to a point where women no longer feel the need to wear it? fruit on the bottom posted:There's a term for this. I can't remember what it is, but I keep jumping between slippery slope and reductio ad absurdum "Our writing instruments contribute to our thinking". These guys having been using computers (binary) and avoiding other people to the extent that they expect other people to behave like computers. Also autism.
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Sep 21, 2017 20:57
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Pththya-lyi posted:Where did this idea that the majority of women like Ahnold-type bodies come from? Look at all the "hottest" male celebrities - most of them have toned muscles, not bulging ones. I imagine that is coupled with homophobia as well. There's the common association that fewer stereotypically masculine signifiers means more gay and they need to be the most not gay. Actually it's probably even simpler than that. More muscles = less like woman and woman = bad.
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Sep 21, 2017 20:59
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RobotDogPolice posted:Narcissism seems to be the defining trait of these people, despite having a very low self-image, if that makes any sense. Whenever one of them posts a story about walking past a woman it's always super egotistical "she wouldn't stop staring at ME because she knows I'm an incel, she adjusted her skirt because she things ugly men like ME are rapists, everyone is always thinking about ME and ways to hurt ME." Everyone is their own protagonist. These guys just take that to it's illogical extreme.
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Sep 21, 2017 21:00
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Benny Harvey posted:True. But. Is this really what we want as a society? For men to be made to wear makeup rather than getting to a point where women no longer feel the need to wear it? Pick posted:For a moment of non-irony or wildpostin, really society needs a strong pendulum swing back towards thinking normal people look good. I mean a lot of the stuff people fuss about really shouldn't matter, and we need to get to a place where we're cool with how people really are, and stop this "I do it for ME!" stuff. We should want to be able to go to work without makeup.
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Sep 21, 2017 21:01
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Benny Harvey posted:Everyone is their own protagonist. These guys just take that to it's illogical extreme. They are both protagonist and antagonist. Personally, I'm a background character in my life.
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Sep 21, 2017 21:02
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chumbler posted:I imagine that is coupled with homophobia as well. There's the common association that fewer stereotypically masculine signifiers means more gay and they need to be the most not gay. I think it might also have to do with being (relatively) straightforward. Building muscles is something you can see a path for. "Be interesting" slightly less so.
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Sep 21, 2017 21:04
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hyphz posted:It may not be correct, but that is how that is understood when given as advice. It's their fault for thinking like morons, as you do , as a stupid person (you are)
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Sep 21, 2017 21:11
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Pick posted:It's their fault for thinking like morons, as you do , as a stupid person (you are)  
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Sep 21, 2017 21:12
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Benny Harvey posted:True. But. Is this really what we want as a society? For men to be made to wear makeup rather than getting to a point where women no longer feel the need to wear it? I agree that nobody should be required to wear makeup for regular things like being out in public or going to work, but that doesn't mean that we have to consider men wearing makeup when they want to look their best to be some kind of step towards the same lovely cultural standard women are in currently. EDIT: Like, technically everyone could just paint their homes with a basic beige and have no architectural or colorful flourishes, but that would get terribly boring. LanceHunter fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Sep 21, 2017 |
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Sep 21, 2017 21:12
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LanceHunter posted:I agree that nobody should be required to wear makeup for regular things like being out in public or going to work, but that doesn't mean that we have to consider men wearing makeup when they want to look their best to be some kind of step towards the same lovely cultural standard women are in currently. i don't think anyone is suggesting that removing the social expectations/obligations relating to makeup = abolish all makeup forever
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Sep 21, 2017 21:22
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I'm a man and I refuse to leave my home without some hairwax on (or rather, avoid as much as possible)  This is in no way comparable of course to the requirements socially imposed on women but why would I present myself in a way I don't believe people want to see? Basically incels are idiots
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Sep 21, 2017 21:27
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china bot posted:i don't think anyone is suggesting that removing the social expectations/obligations relating to makeup = abolish all makeup forever The post I was replying to was the one suggesting that any man wearing makeup was the first step to us having the same social expectation. Oh, it was a Benny post. My fault for replying.
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Sep 21, 2017 21:31
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Pththya-lyi posted:Where did this idea that the majority of women like Ahnold-type bodies come from? Look at all the "hottest" male celebrities - most of them have toned muscles, not bulging ones. It has been pretty well established that women in general don't really go for the huge bodybuilder thing. A long time ago a female friend explained it to me thusly: Brad Pitt in Fight Club was just about as muscular as you would ever want to get if your goal is to attract women in general, and Brad Pitt in Troy was a little bit over that line. And when you get to Tom Hardy as he was in Bronson or as Bane, then you are really only going for a niche audience. Likewise, when some female friends were talking about a uni friend of theirs who was really into professional rugby players, the consensus seems to be that her taste was a bit "weird" for liking men that big. It's all a male power fantasy thing, after a certain point. Arnie and Stallone weren't big because of their sex appeals to the ladies. They were popular because their muscles conveyed in a rather primitive way raw power, which their largely male audience found appealing. Same thing with 300, I don't think I've met a single woman who thought the Spartans were hot. No, it's the male members of the audience who are suppose to identify with the Spartans, and find the murder of a diplomat oddly empowering. So in this sense I'm not really surprised that incels believe that women just love the bodybuilder type - they have felt powerless and weak all their pathetic lives, so the huge muscles appeal to them as signifiers of raw, physical power, and lacking empathy, they think that the women must like huge muscles because, hey, who doesn't like huge muscles?
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Sep 21, 2017 22:03
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Shanghaied posted:because hey, who doesn't like huge muscles? women, ironically
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Sep 21, 2017 22:09
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DragQueenofAngmar posted:women, ironically Again dude, lack of empathy and complete inability to see anything from anyone else's perspective. Same thing as: 1) I fantasize constantly about degrading and humiliating women sexually, therefore everyone else must also love degrading sex acts; 2) I'm obsessed with sex, therefore everyone else must also be thinking about sex constantly; and 3) I suffer from perpetual, intense self-hatred, therefore everyone else must also be thinking about what a pathetic waste of flesh I am, constantly.
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Sep 21, 2017 22:17
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Shanghaied posted:Again dude, lack of empathy and complete inability to see anything from anyone else's perspective. Same thing as: 1) I fantasize constantly about degrading and humiliating women sexually, therefore everyone else must also love degrading sex acts; 2) I'm obsessed with sex, therefore everyone else must also be thinking about sex constantly; and 3) I suffer from perpetual, intense self-hatred, therefore everyone else must also be thinking about what a pathetic waste of flesh I am, constantly.
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Sep 21, 2017 22:36
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hyphz posted:It may not be correct, but that is how that is understood when given as advice. Palpek fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Sep 21, 2017 |
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Sep 21, 2017 22:40
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I wish someone would classify "inability to understand nuance" as a mental illness and do some intense research on it and develop medicine and then just illegally air bomb the us with it, gently caress approval or laws just spray that poo poo it would solve a lot more than incels imo
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Sep 21, 2017 22:47
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Furia posted:This is in no way comparable of course to the requirements socially imposed on women but why would I present myself in a way I don't believe people want to see?
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Sep 21, 2017 22:50
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fruit on the bottom posted:Actually it is, see also: Healthy at Every Size. EDIT: I also think that focusing on being healthier over specifically losing weight is more effective, even if weight loss is a byproduct of being healthier. If you just focus on dropping the pounds it's tempting to get into fad diets or extreme lifestyle changes that aren't maintainable, whereas if you measure your progress in multiple ways with weight just being one of them you can see results even if you're not dropping the pounds as quickly as you'd like. It's healthier to be fat and physically active and eating right than it is to be fat and exercising as little as possible and only eating junk food. PetraCore fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Sep 21, 2017 |
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Sep 21, 2017 22:56
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On the other hand, suggesting that the extra 70 pounds you're carting around might be the primary cause of your high blood pressure is a very good bet.
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Sep 21, 2017 22:58
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DragQueenofAngmar posted:I wish someone would classify "inability to understand nuance" as a mental illness and do some intense research on it and develop medicine and then just illegally air bomb the us with it, gently caress approval or laws just spray that poo poo Isn't that a sign of an autism spectrum disorder? Not trying to joke here, but I recall they have difficulty with things like recognizing white lies or jokes based on things that aren't true, which sounds like inability to recognize nuance and subtlety. I realize now that I don't actually know much about autism for someone posting in an internet forum.
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Sep 21, 2017 23:19
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chumbler posted:I realize now that I don't actually know much about autism for someone posting in an internet forum.
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Sep 21, 2017 23:25
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chumbler posted:Isn't that a sign of an autism spectrum disorder? Not trying to joke here, but I recall they have difficulty with things like recognizing white lies or jokes based on things that aren't true, which sounds like inability to recognize nuance and subtlety. Its one of several diagnostic criteria for autism, yes. DSM posted:A. Persistent deficits in social communication and social interaction across multiple contexts, as manifested by the following, currently or by history (examples are illustrative, not exhaustive, see text): DragQueenofAngmar posted:I wish someone would classify "inability to understand nuance" as a mental illness You're in luck! The DSM also recently added Social (Pragmatic) Communication Disorder in their 5th edition. DSM posted:A. Persistent difficulties in the social use of verbal and nonverbal communication as manifested by all of the following:
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Sep 21, 2017 23:41
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This reminds me of something bodybuilder and synthol freak Gregg Valentino said in an interview; that when he went out, women would be disgusted at how he looked, but men would be falling over themselves asking him how he got so big.
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Sep 22, 2017 00:29
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hyphz posted:No, but it's read as "fitter = more attractive" and extrapolated to "massive bodybuilder = pinnacle of fitness = pinnacle of attractiveness". no one cares how fit you are. grow the gently caress up
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Sep 22, 2017 01:25
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Benny Harvey posted:True. But. Is this really what we want as a society? For men to be made to wear makeup rather than getting to a point where women no longer feel the need to wear it? match the expectations of your peers (their expectations are actually very low). don't rationalize don't theorize don't keep score just imitate others. in fact, don't just imitate them, identify yourself with them. give up your current identity and identify with them instead
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Sep 22, 2017 01:30
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