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I bet the number of cops who have done even 10% of the action movie poo poo on that list is far below the number of cops who've kicked a suspect in handcuffs simply because they were having a bad day and bragged about it later to loud laughter
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Sep 22, 2017 16:45
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Speaking of action rolls. Remember that video of a cop doing an action roll to arrest a teen girl?
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Sep 22, 2017 19:31
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PhazonLink posted:Speaking of action rolls. https://vine.co/v/eOqeXtL9Yxz
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Sep 22, 2017 19:33
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Not to mention that half the admirable stuff on that list isn't even something you need to be a cop to do. Oh good, you pulled someone from a car crash and desperately tried to help dying kids? Guess what, EMTs do that every day without expecting the world to jerk them off or get away with murdering people when they can't keep their poo poo together. Also they're paid much worse, and have comparably dangerous jobs. If you want to thank someone, thank an EMT or a social service worker, because they deal with all kinds of crazy poo poo without weapons, armor, or a bodycount.
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Sep 22, 2017 19:41
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Ashcans posted:Not to mention that half the admirable stuff on that list isn't even something you need to be a cop to do. Oh good, you pulled someone from a car crash and desperately tried to help dying kids? Guess what, EMTs do that every day without expecting the world to jerk them off or get away with murdering people when they can't keep their poo poo together. Also they're paid much worse, and have comparably dangerous jobs. If you want to thank someone, thank an EMT or a social service worker, because they deal with all kinds of crazy poo poo without weapons, armor, or a bodycount. I dated a mortician once, and I learned that social workers have a particularly high mortality rate.
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Sep 22, 2017 19:47
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Ashcans posted:Not to mention that half the admirable stuff on that list isn't even something you need to be a cop to do. Oh good, you pulled someone from a car crash and desperately tried to help dying kids? Guess what, EMTs do that every day without expecting the world to jerk them off or get away with murdering people when they can't keep their poo poo together. Also they're paid much worse, and have comparably dangerous jobs. If you want to thank someone, thank an EMT or a social service worker, because they deal with all kinds of crazy poo poo without weapons, armor, or a bodycount. Hey now, EMTs get body armor. They get bulletproof vests for when people take shots at them for trying to save people 
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Sep 22, 2017 20:19
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DreamShipWrecked posted:Hey now, EMTs get body armor.
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Sep 22, 2017 20:23
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DreamShipWrecked posted:Hey now, EMTs get body armor. This is going to be a another incident some day. A non white EMT trys to do their job and a cop kills them.
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Sep 22, 2017 20:26
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Ashcans posted:Not to mention that half the admirable stuff on that list isn't even something you need to be a cop to do. Oh good, you pulled someone from a car crash and desperately tried to help dying kids? Guess what, EMTs do that every day without expecting the world to jerk them off or get away with murdering people when they can't keep their poo poo together. Also they're paid much worse, and have comparably dangerous jobs. If you want to thank someone, thank an EMT or a social service worker, because they deal with all kinds of crazy poo poo without weapons, armor, or a bodycount. Occasionally I check the average salary of a paramedic in my area because I would really like to be one, and they're paid so poorly I'd have to take almost a 50% pay cut and a terrifying hit to my financial security just to do a job where I help people. So here I continue to sit on my rear end watching a screen as servers go Beep Boop. Their lack of compensation is loving criminal.
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Sep 22, 2017 20:49
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Shadin posted:Occasionally I check the average salary of a paramedic in my area because I would really like to be one, and they're paid so poorly I'd have to take almost a 50% pay cut and a terrifying hit to my financial security just to do a job where I help people. So here I continue to sit on my rear end watching a screen as servers go Beep Boop. Their lack of compensation is loving criminal. same, but teaching. imo people who clean toilets should get minimum $25 an hour. everyone needs a clean place to poo poo and cleaning toilets sucks
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Sep 22, 2017 20:53
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boner confessor posted:same, but teaching. imo people who clean toilets should get minimum $25 an hour. everyone needs a clean place to poo poo and cleaning toilets sucks Yep, my first love was teaching, but early on after high school I realized I was going to suffer through crushing student debt and barely make a living. I was in that weird scenario where both my parents were divorced and remarried, yet none were wealthy, but all combined they collectively made enough to exclude me from financial assistance. I only started checking paramedics later because I could at least pay for my own certification and training (which a lot of them are required to do on top of not making anything).
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Sep 22, 2017 20:58
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boner confessor posted:imo people who clean toilets should get minimum $25 an hour. everyone needs a clean place to poo poo and cleaning toilets sucks
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Sep 22, 2017 21:02
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"Everyone wants to build but no one wants to maintain" Sanitation workers, EMTs, firemen, etc do more good in a month than any $200k/year doctor does in a year.
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Sep 22, 2017 21:25
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Guavanaut posted:Garbage collectors save a ton of lives too, and should be better compensated. People love to joke about "lol sanitation workers they touch our poo poo" but forget what conditions we'd be living in if they didn't. Hah over here garbage men make $3500-4500 a month and have 26 hour work weeks. They are currently on strike because the city wants to lower their pay to $2800 or give them 40 hour weeks.
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Sep 22, 2017 22:17
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BarbarianElephant posted:If police were being mowed down in enough numbers to make an impact on life expectancy, the streets would look like a war zone. Blue collar men don't have great life expectancies, that's what's happening here. There also seems to be a culture of heavy drinking and overeating, probably to cope with stress. Counseling would help here. I think a significant chunk of the mortality rate also comes from regular old car accidents. Police officers tend to be on the road a whole lot, so a lot of them get killed that way. If you were to control for that in addition to the health risks you mentioned, and only looked at homicides, chances are the resulting impact would be fairly low.
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Sep 22, 2017 22:49
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Dejawesp posted:Hah over here garbage men make $3500-4500 a month and have 26 hour work weeks. They are currently on strike because the city wants to lower their pay to $2800 or give them 40 hour weeks. As they loving should. gently caress this feudalistic untouchable caste poo poo.
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Sep 23, 2017 00:36
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Perestroika posted:I think a significant chunk of the mortality rate also comes from regular old car accidents. Police officers tend to be on the road a whole lot, so a lot of them get killed that way. If you were to control for that in addition to the health risks you mentioned, and only looked at homicides, chances are the resulting impact would be fairly low. Yea, if you look at lists of officer deaths a lot of them are automotive; sometimes just accidents but also stuff like traffic details. And things like having a heart attack on shift is counted as an officer fatality. That's true for all jobs, but it's worth remembering that a certain number are just natural/health causes that hit during work.
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Sep 23, 2017 03:31
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As a delivery person I've been held at gun point twice. As a gas station clerk I've been assaulted over cigarettes. Can I have my higher compensation for dangerous work yet, please?
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Sep 23, 2017 03:39
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DreamShipWrecked posted:"Everyone wants to build but no one wants to maintain" Cooks too, don't forget about us. Especially any public facing ones (ie, fast food. Or cooking in front of folks.) People are assholes to foodservice workers. Plus it's a dangerous job, what with all the knives, fryers, hot grills/ranges. Mercedes Colomar fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Sep 23, 2017 |
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Sep 23, 2017 05:10
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If Garbage Men/Women or sanitation workers are paid well enough for their work, why aren't nurses or teachers? That's a genuine, if absurdly naive, question. Why aren't teachers paid more?
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Sep 23, 2017 07:26
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toanoradian posted:If Garbage Men/Women or sanitation workers are paid well enough for their work, why aren't nurses or teachers? That's a genuine, if absurdly naive, question. Why aren't teachers paid more? systemic underfunding of schools at the local level as well as a general cultural disregard for the value of teaching as a profession
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Sep 23, 2017 07:35
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toanoradian posted:If Garbage Men/Women or sanitation workers are paid well enough for their work, why aren't nurses or teachers? That's a genuine, if absurdly naive, question. Why aren't teachers paid more? It's traditionally a field dominated by women.
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Sep 23, 2017 07:35
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J.A.B.C. posted:It's an honored Right-Wing tradition since Reagan to talk about welfare queens buying lobster or getting fancy hotels, or drunks buying an orange with food stamps, getting change then buying vodka with the change. How do you not just run out of money before you hit the second bottle?(I know, food stamps don't work that way and that is the point). What they should have done(in that crazy made up story for mad right-wingers), is to buy a bunch of methylated spirits and popsicles. Eat all the popsicles at once so you don't upchuck the spirits you drink and voila, you have something actual crazy winos do. Or at least profess to.
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Sep 23, 2017 08:21
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toanoradian posted:If Garbage Men/Women or sanitation workers are paid well enough for their work, why aren't nurses or teachers? That's a genuine, if absurdly naive, question. Why aren't teachers paid more? Lobbying by private schools to keep public school workers underpaid and underequipped, to make said private schools look better.
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Sep 23, 2017 08:24
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Rigged Death Trap posted:As they loving should. Maybe rebranding would help? Have Garbage Men and Pick Up Artists swap names.
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Sep 23, 2017 09:11
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Dirk the Average posted:It's traditionally a field dominated by women. thiiiiiiiiiiis
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Sep 23, 2017 10:56
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That's certainly true, it's interesting to track which occupations are designated for men/women and how that effects their pay and prestige. For some jobs, employers also rely on people wanting to work in those roles. Many people become teachers because its a passion or a dream for them, and that means they are more willing to eat lovely pay because they are doing what they love. That's also why teachers often end up spending their own money to make up gaps and buy supplies, because they care a lot about their work. Many people who work in stuff like social work, education, and care roles do it because they think its important and they really want to work there; very few people have pursued a lifelong dream to be a garbage man, and so more of them are prepared to walk away when the wages are poo poo. Early childhood education is a field that is terrible this way. The support and care that kids get before first grade is actually really important for their development, and it's a critical time to identify stuff that needs special handling, like speech or motor functions, learning disabilities, etc. But early childhood education is frequently paid close to minimum wage with crappy or no benefits, and is often regarded as a sort of informal employment for people who young/old/lack serious education. If you were really serious about maximizing kid's chances, we would have public preschools with professional staff who get continuing education and are encouraged to remain in the field.
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Sep 23, 2017 15:15
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Ashcans posted:That's certainly true, it's interesting to track which occupations are designated for men/women and how that effects their pay and prestige. But we already told them about bootstraps, what else is there to teach?
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Sep 23, 2017 15:29
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Ashcans posted:That's also why teachers often end up spending their own money to make up gaps and buy supplies, because they care a lot about their work. Man, I've been reading some of the career focused threads (Working in Corporate, working in IT, etc.), and when people say stuff like "I had to pay for my own travel expenses to meet a client and there's no expectation of reimbursement," we're all like RED ALERT! YOUR BOSS IS A CROOK!. But somehow in education we tolerate it.
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Sep 23, 2017 16:17
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Ashcans posted:Early childhood education is a field that is terrible this way. The support and care that kids get before first grade is actually really important for their development, and it's a critical time to identify stuff that needs special handling, like speech or motor functions, learning disabilities, etc. But early childhood education is frequently paid close to minimum wage with crappy or no benefits, and is often regarded as a sort of informal employment for people who young/old/lack serious education. If you were really serious about maximizing kid's chances, we would have public preschools with professional staff who get continuing education and are encouraged to remain in the field.
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Sep 23, 2017 16:27
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Subjunctive posted:thiiiiiiiiiiis
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Sep 23, 2017 16:31
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Isn't it the case that there was some profession that was traditionally men, then women started getting into it and eventually it was dominated by women and the pay went way down? I seem to remember reading about that somewhere. Might have just gone down in response to 50% of the population suddenly being interested, not super informed economically. Seems like a viable explanation aside from sexism tho
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Sep 23, 2017 17:08
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Darth Windu posted:Isn't it the case that there was some profession that was traditionally men, then women started getting into it and eventually it was dominated by women and the pay went way down? I seem to remember reading about that somewhere. Might have just gone down in response to 50% of the population suddenly being interested, not super informed economically. Seems like a viable explanation aside from sexism tho Veterinarian is a big one. The flip side is more common, where a traditionally feminine industry is opened to men and wages begin to climb upward. Programming and Nursing are two immediate career fields that come to mind.
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Sep 23, 2017 17:10
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Darth Windu posted:Isn't it the case that there was some profession that was traditionally men, then women started getting into it and eventually it was dominated by women and the pay went way down? I seem to remember reading about that somewhere. Might have just gone down in response to 50% of the population suddenly being interested, not super informed economically. Seems like a viable explanation aside from sexism tho Telephone operators. When it was manual exchanges it became dominated by women. This then leaked into secetarial work, as the two have similar work skills.
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Sep 23, 2017 17:11
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Darth Windu posted:Isn't it the case that there was some profession that was traditionally men, then women started getting into it and eventually it was dominated by women and the pay went way down? I seem to remember reading about that somewhere. Might have just gone down in response to 50% of the population suddenly being interested, not super informed economically. Seems like a viable explanation aside from sexism tho Yes that would be teaching. Formerly a prestigious male field, wages for teachers dropped when it became dominated by women.
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Sep 23, 2017 17:11
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Darth Windu posted:Isn't it the case that there was some profession that was traditionally men, then women started getting into it and eventually it was dominated by women and the pay went way down? I seem to remember reading about that somewhere. Might have just gone down in response to 50% of the population suddenly being interested, not super informed economically. Seems like a viable explanation aside from sexism tho
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Sep 23, 2017 17:24
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I think there are also sexist assumptions that a woman is more likely to get married/have kids/be a SAHM eventually so there's less promotion track or pay incentives for women dominated fields. While this may not be as directly relevent now compared to the 1950s the cultural attitude still lingers. Then there's the irony that a woman in a field that is low paying with little potential for advancement is more likely to quit if she starts a family because childcare is so expensive and more couples are likely to do the 'dad works full time, mom stays at home with the kids' not necessarily out of traditional values but more because trying to have the wife continue to work in such a low paying job may be a net drain when childcare is factored.
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Sep 23, 2017 18:24
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Panfilo posted:I think there are also sexist assumptions that a woman is more likely to get married/have kids/be a SAHM eventually so there's less promotion track or pay incentives for women dominated fields. While this may not be as directly relevent now compared to the 1950s the cultural attitude still lingers. Then there's the irony that a woman in a field that is low paying with little potential for advancement is more likely to quit if she starts a family because childcare is so expensive and more couples are likely to do the 'dad works full time, mom stays at home with the kids' not necessarily out of traditional values but more because trying to have the wife continue to work in such a low paying job may be a net drain when childcare is factored. I mean that's a lot of words. You can break it down in ways that make people seem less terrible but the bottom line is we don't value women and we think less of them, as a society.
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Sep 23, 2017 18:34
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  dinks u dink
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Sep 23, 2017 18:37
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Ashcans posted:That's certainly true, it's interesting to track which occupations are designated for men/women and how that effects their pay and prestige. I just want to chime in that some areas are really starting to push the preschool-for-all-or-at-least-those-who-need-it-most approach; my daughter has high-functioning autism, and even though we're way over the income limit for Early Head Start, our town (not even a major city) has a brand shiny new pre-K only school with self-contained classes for special needs 3- and 4-year-olds as well as the income-based regular preschool. The special needs pre-K is free for anyone qualified. It's fantastic and even just in the few weeks school's been in she's made a ton of progress and absolutely loves going to school. We need this basically everywhere. Most of the teachers I've met have come from other schools in the district, and it's definitely not a barely-out-of-college bunch of ECE majors, so bonus. 
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Sep 23, 2017 18:50
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