|
NarkyBark posted:The problem in "finding the right story when it comes along" is that if you're gonna set up a multi-piece story, you'd better have the entire thing mapped out before you even start. Or else you end up with... what we got. She didn't say that it isn't 'mapped out,' she's saying they don't know what the story of the next film is yet, which is actually more important than franchise speculation. Having a far-projected blueprint of where you want a series of films to escalate is not as imperative as the process of telling a story that should work on its own. A lot of folks apparently have had hang-ups about how Prometheus and Covenant are supposed to 'fit in' with the alien franchise, which distracts them from the movies. That both films have unconventional, open-endings is treated as a bad thing. Mere mortals commandeer alien spacecrafts with the help of disembodied robot heads, or the villainous robot-wizard succeeds, and some viewers are disappointed because these endings evolve organically out of the themes of the individual movies, and are not in fact precursors to anything in particular.
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2017 04:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 08:14 |
|
|
CelticPredator posted:The end is David taking his eggs into the Derelict ship and crashing in a suit of armor. David takes the colonists to a blue planet to settle them down and raise the humans right. And that planet turns out to be earth. Engineers steal his aliens to make weapons. They never said they were from earth in the first 2 movies and they took place millions of years ago and another company called Weyland is created.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2017 16:57
|
|
|
CelticPredator posted:The end is David taking his eggs into the Derelict ship and crashing in a suit of armor. It will be interesting(not necessarily in a good way) to see how Ridley handles that if in fact he really wants to loop around and have things directly connect to the derelict on LV-426. Because David's now on a totally different ship and without any obvious way to get a new Engineer ship, it has to be figured out how David is going to again find an Engineer controlled world where a ship would be found. Maybe he finds like another black goo outbreak site with a bunch of ships and Engineer pilots in stasis on like an airfield, and he puts eggs in all of them and programs them to go off into space in all different directions. I'd be ok with that I guess.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2017 17:02
|
|
|
David probably has a whole map of engineer colonies?
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2017 19:01
|
|
|
Snak posted:David probably has a whole map of engineer colonies? True, I didn't really think that through I guess. The scene in Prometheus does seem to indicate he can operate all their systems and probably access their maps, yea.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2017 20:25
|
|
|
Scott wants to do an all out war between David and the Engineers. I assume that's how he'll get the ship.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2017 21:11
|
|
|
if the alien series turns into high-budget fassbender-on-fassbender gay porn, i am still totally into it
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2017 22:54
|
|
|
the next alien movie is a shot for shot remake of AVP:R where david is the predalien and an engineer is the predator.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2017 00:06
|
|
|
It'd be awesome if there's no direct wraparound and the movie is just David's failing to obliterate earth again. The connection could be something very very very indirect, like David tries to contact other Engineer ships via whatever records he has and one of the ones he pings is the already long dead Derelict which was just awake enough to broadcast its "we hosed up stay back" signal forever. It'd be perfect because you'd have David's machinations and highfalutin delusions of dominance be so far out there that no one on Earth even knows he exists, but he instead ends up genuinely jeopardizing humanity by setting off the entire Alien franchise while stumbling around with Engineer stuff. I really do hope the next movie picks up a like a generation later in like a functional idyllic space colony that's been working great with David as its senile "elder" because it'd be interesting to see this first wave of humans whose entire lives play out outside of earth on a planet where a lot of the other life is derived from the black goo/various life forms David derived/experimented on. Make it like Logan's Run or how a lot of Next Generation episodes play out where it's just like some normal drama on this wonderful peaceful planet but the folks have to eventually emotionally/spiritually/whatever come to terms with how hosed up their origin/humanity in general is. Whatever situations happen and David goes full on nuts again. The same way Prometheus is a sort cinematic conversation with Galaxy of Terror, and Covenant a Hammer gothic romance horror set in the far future, you could have this third movie be similar to The Burning where a significant chunk of the flick is idyllic enough that despite the opening you almost forget it's a slasher movie and it's just this fun movie about space colonists. But then once David "comes home" a little over halfway through... With the amount of genetic engineering stuff on the ship like the embryo monitoring stuff you could even bring the entire Covenant cast back to play completely different characters who are descended from the characters they played in Covenant. Fuuuuck I want this movie to get made so badly now. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Sep 22, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2017 00:17
|
|
|
K. Waste posted:He's an artist. David is the Jackson Pollack of science, it's true.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2017 01:01
|
|
|
K. Waste posted:A lot of folks apparently have had hang-ups about how Prometheus and Covenant are supposed to 'fit in' with the alien franchise, which distracts them from the movies. That both films have unconventional, open-endings is treated as a bad thing. Mere mortals commandeer alien spacecrafts with the help of disembodied robot heads, or the villainous robot-wizard succeeds, and some viewers are disappointed because these endings evolve organically out of the themes of the individual movies, and are not in fact precursors to anything in particular. My problem is not about that, it's about clearly setting up story elements and then completely abandoning them because the next writer didn't know what to do with them. Why bother setting up Shaw's search for answers, and introduce us to the Engineer homeworld, only to erase all that and not even have either one play a part in the sequel? I would rather have NONE of it show up than just erase them with 5-second hand wavings. David's lust for creation is nice but it's pretty much the only thing at all that carries over from Prometheus. It's a wasted story. The concepts really deserve better than that.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2017 02:23
|
|
|
Hicks and Newt dying in Alien 3 doesn't make Aliens retroactively worse. Shaw being dead in Covenant doesn't invalidate the themes in Prometheus.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2017 02:25
|
|
|
If they made a movie based on Blomkamp's ideas but called the character Wilkes and Billie would anyone even notice?
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2017 02:33
|
|
|
NarkyBark posted:My problem is not about that, it's about clearly setting up story elements and then completely abandoning them because the next writer didn't know what to do with them. Why bother setting up Shaw's search for answers, and introduce us to the Engineer homeworld, only to erase all that and not even have either one play a part in the sequel? I would rather have NONE of it show up than just erase them with 5-second hand wavings. David's lust for creation is nice but it's pretty much the only thing at all that carries over from Prometheus. It's a wasted story. The concepts really deserve better than that. They changed it because Fox apparently listened to a surplus of angry fansites out there who complained about the lack of xenomorphs in Prometheus. I still think Covenant is good (and arguably better than Prometheus), and I appreciate how Ridley Scott carried over the thematic elements of Prometheus into it. The Peter Weyland-David 8 prologue, the flute scene, and the final android confrontation are by far the most memorable parts of the film for me—even more so than the xenomorph. That said, I hope the sequel continues to explore David's hubris and narcissism as well as giving him a proper death to wrap things up.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2017 02:35
|
|
|
banned from Starbucks posted:the next alien movie is a shot for shot remake of AVP:R where david is the predalien and an engineer is the predator. Like the pickle rick, a predalien exoskeleton.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2017 02:45
|
|
|
NarkyBark posted:My problem is not about that, it's about clearly setting up story elements and then completely abandoning them because the next writer didn't know what to do with them. Why bother setting up Shaw's search for answers, and introduce us to the Engineer homeworld, only to erase all that and not even have either one play a part in the sequel? I would rather have NONE of it show up than just erase them with 5-second hand wavings. David's lust for creation is nice but it's pretty much the only thing at all that carries over from Prometheus. It's a wasted story. The concepts really deserve better than that. The story was not wasted, it was conveyed with Prometheus. Shaw is looking for answers at the beginning of the film, and by the end, despite her very traumatic experiences, she remains undeterred in her mission and, indeed, fearlessly pursues untold possible horrors because she refuses to let disappointment of her ideals retard her quest for knowledge. All Covenant does is speculate that Shaw's endeavor doesn't turn out well for her. But she is not 'hand-waved' out of Covenant: she remains a crucial spiritual fixture of the film, first as a ghost foreboding the fate of the Covenant, and then as David's perverse Madonna figure to whom David partially credits his perseverance and accomplishments (in contrast to his father, who he sees as a creator unworthy of its creations). As you say, it is, indeed, because Scott does not 'hand-wave' Shaw out of Covenant, but that he depicts her progression as a character in an unconventional and disturbing manner that is seen as a mistake, the result of poor franchise mapping that doesn't bank on the obvious set-up of Prometheus. Again, Prometheus is not a set-up. Covenant is a thematically and narratively related, but otherwise wholly distinct film.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2017 02:52
|
|
|
K. Waste posted:As you say, it is, indeed, because Scott does not 'hand-wave' Shaw out of Covenant, but that he depicts her progression as a character in an unconventional and disturbing manner that is seen as a mistake She "bowled" out.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2017 02:59
|
|
|
The key here is in interpreting the events at the end of Prometheus as merely "story elements," all but tacitly admitting that there is demonstrably zero interest in story.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2017 05:55
|
|
|
I don't even like Prometheus that much, but the idea that the ending of a film is a squandered sequel hook, rather than the legitimate thematic ending of the film it belongs to, is completely nuts.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2017 06:10
|
|
|
K. Waste posted:...zero interest in story. What does this bit mean? Obviously I understand it, but some others might not. So for their benefit?
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2017 09:22
|
|
|
NotJustANumber99 posted:What does this bit mean? Obviously I understand it, but some others might not. So for their benefit? Thematic content versus plot content.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2017 13:26
|
|
|
NotJustANumber99 posted:What does this bit mean? Obviously I understand it, but some others might not. So for their benefit? HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Thematic content versus plot content. Not just this, but precisely what I claimed in response to Narky's original post: Many viewers are preoccupied with speculation about ('mapping out') the superficial content ("story elements") of the Alien franchise, which means that they do not interpret the individual films as significant unto themselves. When Prometheus ends with its sole two survivors embarking on a dangerous voyage into the unknown, this is interpreted not as thematic closure for these characters with regards to what they have experienced, but as 'setting up' the events which somehow or other must escalate into perfect narrative cohesion with Alien, a movie that came out 38 years ago.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2017 17:18
|
|
|
Hmmm. Ok thanks. I think maybe I can only accept thematic closure at the end of a story if it says "and they all lived happily ever after" or there is one of those montages with a picture of each surviving character and a short blurb about what they did next. I suppose I'll look at it as Covenant isn't really a continuation of the characters from prometheus's story, but a new story about some more spacemen that accidentally trample into a thematically closed story space where they don't belong and what happens to people that do that (bad stuff).
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2017 18:53
|
|
|
Well, it's only 18 years from Covenant to Alien, maybe David will pick up the 'This is Ripley, last survivor of the Nostromo' radio message next time.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2017 19:27
|
|
|
NotJustANumber99 posted:Hmmm. Ok thanks. Say no more, fam. https://youtu.be/20wsNqmTPxI
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2017 23:35
|
|
|
. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 06:05
|
|
|
alf_pogs posted:if the alien series turns into high-budget fassbender-on-fassbender gay porn, i am still totally into it Agreed!
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 23:10
|
|
|
Given the success and cultural significance of Stranger Things and IT due to their small town horror aesthetic, I think it's time to reevaluate AVP: Requiem as a modern classic which was ahead of its time (much like the original Blade Runner).
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 02:37
|
|
|
AvP: Requiem was a pretty good Gremlins sequel.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 03:26
|
|
|
Stop this.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 04:25
|
|
|
"Modern classic ahead of its time" is a bonkers description for AVP:R, but it is pretty underrated, and Gremlins isn't a bad comparison (though, as bizarrely mean as Gremlins is, AVPR is moreso).
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 05:22
|
|
|
AVPR is basically Meatballs in space.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 07:09
|
|
|
AVP-R is the two girls one cup of movies Full of poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 10:22
|
|
|
You telling me a film where a Predator turns it's plasma caster into a sawed off shotgun isn't rad?
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 14:28
|
|
|
viral spiral posted:Given the success and cultural significance of Stranger Things and IT due to their small town horror aesthetic, I think it's time to reevaluate AVP: Requiem as a modern classic which was ahead of its time (much like the original Blade Runner). AV|P:R is wayyyy better than both those.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 17:22
|
|
|
Gizmo (and the gremlins, by extension), are canonically alien in origin, so my comparison is more apt than you'd think.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 17:37
|
|
|
Avpr is so bad it caused its main star to go crazy and take a header off a building
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 20:59
|
|
|
he got a blowjob from a building? hosed up
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 21:03
|
|
|
SirDrone posted:You telling me a film where a Predator turns it's plasma caster into a sawed off shotgun isn't rad? Yeah.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 21:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 08:14 |
|
|
banned from Starbucks posted:Avpr is so bad it caused its main star to go crazy and take a header off a building What's odd about this is the Strauses laughing in the commentary stating that he died horribly from his wounds after. quote:It was later determined that Lewis had broken into the house, murdered Davis and killed her pet cat. Also fuccck.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 21:43
|
|