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Does anyone know whether machine empires get access to the droid and synth techs? It's 2060 in the rogue servitors game I'm playing and I'm pretty deep into the tech tree at this point, but I still haven't encountered the droids tech or any kind of equivalent. Machine empires seem pretty strong so far, but I'd guess they'd really start to fall behind past the mid-game if it turns out they don't have access to the bonus outputs that regular->synthetic empires enjoy from the droid and synth techs. Maybe I've just gotten unlucky with tech draws. On a related note -- I'm enjoying rogue servitors, but god drat, has babysitting my bio-trophies become a fiddly chore.
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Sep 24, 2017 07:57
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Hiveminded posted:Does anyone know whether machine empires get access to the droid and synth techs? It's 2060 in the rogue servitors game I'm playing and I'm pretty deep into the tech tree at this point, but I still haven't encountered the droids tech or any kind of equivalent. Machine empires seem pretty strong so far, but I'd guess they'd really start to fall behind past the mid-game if it turns out they don't have access to the bonus outputs that regular->synthetic empires enjoy from the droid and synth techs. Maybe I've just gotten unlucky with tech draws. As far as I can tell, you're supposed to use Machine Templates to give yourself those bonuses. You already are robots, after all. Technically, you're even an odd type of Synth, since your robots start out sapient, which makes them more advanced than simple robots and droids.
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Sep 24, 2017 08:07
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SniperWoreConverse posted:This is iron man, so I don't want to do it, but if I wanted to leave this guy as is, give no money but let the governor deal with it, what would happen at each tax rate? Why does it seem so crazy? Is the UI just bugged or would something buggy happen with the actual money? I mean, the sector keeps being crap, because they don't work without major startup capital or already being established. I can't tell you exactly how the sector governance works but I can tell you it doesn't work with no resources. Libluini posted:As far as I can tell, you're supposed to use Machine Templates to give yourself those bonuses. You already are robots, after all. Technically, you're even an odd type of Synth, since your robots start out sapient, which makes them more advanced than simple robots and droids. You're a low tech form of robot, because you don't have individual sapience, you're a networked AI with lots of drone bodies. As you tech up, you get enough mod points to basically make your robots as good as synths but until then you have to specialize. Also on an unrelated note jesus the new targeting AI is murderous, they focus poo poo down hellishly fast, spaceports are even more lethal now because they train all their guns on one thing and obliterate it  it's pretty great.
OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 08:10 on Sep 24, 2017 |
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Sep 24, 2017 08:08
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OwlFancier posted:I mean, the sector keeps being crap, because they don't work without major startup capital or already being established. I can't tell you exactly how the sector governance works but I can tell you it doesn't work with no resources. I think the description is purposefully vague on that, it can also be interpreted as the robots being individually sapient (or at least sentient), but networking themselves together into a gestalt for better convenience. What your robots actually are is mostly defined by what you write in your bio. Anyway, the rest I can agree on since it's what I said just reworded: Machine empires don't have robots, droids or synth because what would be the point? Your drones are all that already.
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Sep 24, 2017 08:14
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I mean I think wiz said earlier that the reason robots aren't as good as the robots other empires build is because that's too high tech for the start of the game. The other races get their robot/droid tech later and it's better as a result.
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Sep 24, 2017 08:18
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OwlFancier posted:I mean, the sector keeps being crap, because they don't work without major startup capital or already being established. I can't tell you exactly how the sector governance works but I can tell you it doesn't work with no resources. Libluini posted:I think the description is purposefully vague on that, it can also be interpreted as the robots being individually sapient (or at least sentient), but networking themselves together into a gestalt for better convenience. What your robots actually are is mostly defined by what you write in your bio. OwlFancier posted:I mean I think wiz said earlier that the reason robots aren't as good as the robots other empires build is because that's too high tech for the start of the game. The other races get their robot/droid tech later and it's better as a result. If it is the case that machine empires don't get access to any kind of machine bonus output techs like normal empires do, then drat that's actually really kind of awful. I had a general-purpose bot template maxed out on all its bonus-output traits by 2216 (+10% minerals, energy, and research, along with a different "leader" bot template with the opinion, level cap, and experience traits), and if that's as good as the machines can get independent of the +5% from the Versatility tree finisher, it feels like they're just kind of inferior to synth-path Xenophobe/Materialist/Pacifist or Materialist/FanPacifist empires. Being able to colonise anything from the start was nice and the unique initial snowball effect that rogue servitors have was fantastic early on, but materialist empires can get access to droids quickly enough (and also just pick Extremely Adaptive if they want really early, wide, explosive growth before converting everything to synths) that the former advantage isn't actually that great, and the latter comes with the caveat that if you don't manage your tiles well (and especially if you make the mistake of giving certain planets and organic populations to your sectors), you'll be hosed really hard in the long run as other empires catch up to you with their own bonus outputs and you're stuck with lovely trophies on a large proportion of your tiles.
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Sep 24, 2017 08:47
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OwlFancier posted:I mean I think wiz said earlier that the reason robots aren't as good as the robots other empires build is because that's too high tech for the start of the game. The other races get their robot/droid tech later and it's better as a result. No, what he said was that none-hivemind machine empires were impossible at the start of the game, because individualist machines (basically a Synth-empire) need better computer tech to keep everyone nice and individual, instead of joined up into a single gestalt. This does not mean that robot/droid techs are inherently "better". The machine empires are simply different, since at the point were they could make everyone Synth, they still choose not to do it.
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Sep 24, 2017 08:47
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Some thoughts on Machine Traditions: - You're basically required to open both Synchronicity and Versatility, as both buffs are utterly necessary at the start of the game. - Of the two, Versatility has the best opener, but the remainder of the tree is less relevant for the early game, making finishing Synchronicity first the better choice. - However, with the changes to colonisation, you also require the Expansion opener in order to save hundreds of energy at the outset. Peak play is probably opening all three, finishing Synchronicity, dipping into Versatility for the extra modification point if your initial bots have maxed out traits and can't take full advantage of Machine Templates, filling out Expansion and then finishing Versatility. - Prosperity is worth considering instead of Expansion if your initial machines are good at producing energy. On traits, Recycled is probably a bit too good, especially paired with the Versatility opener. It would still be worth 2 points even at 15% or 10%.
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Sep 24, 2017 08:52
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I recruited a general because I was maxed on Influence and when I ordered his armies to attack a planet his fleet was "destroyed", killing him.
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Sep 24, 2017 08:52
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Hiveminded posted:Things about why machines are bad There's a few factors you're overlooking here. Firstly, servitors can have a bonus to output of up to 30%, giving them at least equivalent production along with excellent unity output. Secondly, you shouldn't make all purpose robots with all the buffs, because then they won't have Recycled and the lower consumer goods trait. This latter is what gives Machine Empires their strength - they can produce leagues of cheap-to-run specialised robots that can live anywhere from the very start. Organics with Extremely Adaptable will be gimped in some other way, not least by not taking some other buff.
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Sep 24, 2017 09:01
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I got the Limbo event as an exterminator machine empire and the only 2 choices I get are "we can't res them lol (+350 eng rp)" and "gently caress em let them stay dead (+500 eng rp)". I can't even upload them all into a hellish blend of The Matrix and I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream? Lame. metasynthetic fucked around with this message at 09:06 on Sep 24, 2017 |
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Sep 24, 2017 09:02
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Aethernet posted:There's a few factors you're overlooking here. Firstly, servitors can have a bonus to output of up to 30%, giving them at least equivalent production along with excellent unity output. Secondly, you shouldn't make all purpose robots with all the buffs, because then they won't have Recycled and the lower consumer goods trait. This latter is what gives Machine Empires their strength - they can produce leagues of cheap-to-run specialised robots that can live anywhere from the very start. Organics with Extremely Adaptable will be gimped in some other way, not least by not taking some other buff. And you can eventually terraform everything to be machine worlds which give you a further buff, and there are traditions for machines that flat increase your bot outputs.
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Sep 24, 2017 09:24
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Limbo is interesting because based on how close to synths you are, you can get different results. You should absolutely get something weird and crazy if you're a machine empire and you find them, imo.
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Sep 24, 2017 09:24
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Aethernet posted:Some thoughts on Machine Traditions: My own thoughts: -I start always with Discovery, to maximize my science output and because even my machines are explorers -The second tree I'm opening is of course expansion, because at that point I really need it to keep expanding -Third is prosperity, and after that supremacy so my fleet can expand to protect the growing empire -When I want to be peaceful, I take the diplomacy tree as fifth option, otherwise I'll go with synchro -sixth is whatever I didn't take as number five, followed by domination last (the joke here is my games often end before I ever reach this tree) My robo-traits are always determined by whatever background I wrote up, since I can just make templates later if I need to optimize a bit. My current bots are durable, mass-produced warmachines. Because that's how they started out in the background lore I wrote. By now I've created four templates to cover everything I need and this is basically just my machine empire adapting to their new destiny. Aethernet posted:There's a few factors you're overlooking here. Firstly, servitors can have a bonus to output of up to 30%, giving them at least equivalent production along with excellent unity output. Secondly, you shouldn't make all purpose robots with all the buffs, because then they won't have Recycled and the lower consumer goods trait. This latter is what gives Machine Empires their strength - they can produce leagues of cheap-to-run specialised robots that can live anywhere from the very start. Organics with Extremely Adaptable will be gimped in some other way, not least by not taking some other buff. Instead of recycled, I prefer mass-produced, at least for my economic bots. (Having the workers of your mines and power plants be mass-produced makes sense, after all!) The speed boost to bot construction is simply too good to pass on! Lower consumer goods doesn't make much sense with my playstyle, since I'm always drowning in minerals pretty drat fast, but I'm always starved for energy. For the same reason every bot meant for production also has efficient processors to reduce upkeep, since their number is by far the highest. Then I have a science bot template with logic engines, and a leader bot template with the traits giving +25% experience gain and +2 level cap. Those go on unity buildings, mineral buildings and other crap which doesn't give any bonus by itself. With this and by carefully selecting my leaders from them as often as possible, I can end up with level 9 admirals when I finally walk through the supremacy-tree. Which is plenty, I think. metasynthetic posted:I got the Limbo event as an exterminator machine empire and the only 2 choices I get are "we can't res them lol (+350 eng rp)" and "gently caress em let them stay dead (+500 eng rp)". You can with a generic machine empire (I just did).
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Sep 24, 2017 09:25
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Libluini posted:You can with a generic machine empire (I just did). Really? I'm a generic empire and I couldn't do that, just those two options. I did give them to the hoarder FE though.
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Sep 24, 2017 09:28
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Eiba posted:How do I get the most use out of Emotion Emulators? When you apply a new template to an existing population, all leaders of that population will change to the new template. So changing the *original* version of your machines *will* change your leader too. The way around it is to have multiple templates for your robots, which is perfectly viable since robots don't grow on their own. So instead of changing all your Friendotron9000s, you just build sub-species Miner-Friendotrons, Research-Friendotrons etc. Your originals can then be the template for diplomats/leaders. For your sub-species, Emotion Emulators is wasted and Uncanny is a free pick. Personally, I use different graphics for each so I can tell them apart at a glance. Edit: Conversely, a Detemrined Exterminator can have Uncanny as a pick, and if they ever meet another Machine Intelligence, they can then have their original sub-species modified to remove Uncanny and/or replace it with Emotion Emulators. Caustic Soda fucked around with this message at 09:56 on Sep 24, 2017 |
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Sep 24, 2017 09:50
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Aethernet posted:There's a few factors you're overlooking here. Firstly, servitors can have a bonus to output of up to 30%, giving them at least equivalent production along with excellent unity output. Secondly, you shouldn't make all purpose robots with all the buffs, because then they won't have Recycled and the lower consumer goods trait. This latter is what gives Machine Empires their strength - they can produce leagues of cheap-to-run specialised robots that can live anywhere from the very start. Organics with Extremely Adaptable will be gimped in some other way, not least by not taking some other buff. You're gaining the +40% output at a very substantial tile expense -- it's why servitors are so fantastic early and so lacking later on. +10% to +40% are very large output bonuses, but they come at the price of tiles occupied by bio trophies. If we assume that the lost tile is made up for completely by the bonus to output enjoyed elsewhere, then bio-trophies provide 1.5 minerals worth of consumer goods in exchange for a point of unity (2 points with the Synchronicity perk and an additional 1 energy expense), not also counting the (relatively minor) food cost; that's not a good exchange by any stretch, but unity is difficult enough to acquire in large amounts that it still has good value if the player builds carefully around it. The problem is that the bonus output of servitor morale doesn't end up comparing well to the tiles lost, particularly as other empires gain their own bonuses and the diminishing returns of stacking bonus output come into play. To make up for 10% of your tiles lost to bio trophies, you gain 10% bonus output and a bit of extra influence; a negligible decrease in overall output occurs as the other 9 per 10 tiles don't quite reach the same potential output even with the +10%, but that's fine, you still end up with a bit more of that hard-to-stack unity and you can build around it. But that decrease in overall output becomes more pronounced as you trade in more tiles; 6 tiles worth of base output with +40% bonus output begins to fall substantially behind, and that's not accounting for the output bonuses you're getting from other sources, output bonuses that are worth much less comparatively with fewer tiles and thus fewer base outputs, or for associated losses, like the extra tile and bit of energy you lose to provide food for every 5 to ~8 bio-trophies. The bio-trophies themselves get worse as the game progresses; unity is valuable, particularly for essential ascension perks that are worth more the earlier you get them, but the unity output per tile becomes comparatively awful as the game goes on, and your options for improving bio-trophies and their outputs or for softening the amount of resources they consume are comparatively very limited. Sectors handle them very poorly, and their presence in a sector can lead to potentially very large losses in resources, moreso than is usual in sectors, and to top it off, you can never really get rid of your bio-trophies, locking your tiles and a large number of resources permanently to 1/2 unity output that, again, just gets worse comparatively as the game progresses (and especially so once you get those ascension perks). Of course, this is also what makes servitors so strong early on; in a state of continuous growth where planet tile caps have largely not yet become an issue, the morale output bonus more than offsets what the bio-trophies consume, and the unity they provide is functionally "free." Growth can be meteoric when it's being channeled for both optimised universal-coloniser machines and pampered biologicals, especially with the massive growth bonuses that can be taken in this patch, and servitors thus grow and snowball better than any other empire configuration at the start, from what I've observed. They're a lot like the Zuul from SotS, in this general respect. As for the second point: It's a given that to play optimally, you shouldn't be making all-purpose robots; but Stellaris is very much a game where the player has to make trade-offs in tedium/micromanagement and optimum play, and while it's a very good idea to make full use of recycled in Insane or multiplayer, there quickly came a point where my mineral output was strong enough and my empire autonomous enough that I couldn't bother to care anymore about fiddling around with ideal templates -- hence, just sticking to the general-purpose bonus output template and the leader template. But I also think it's necessary to argue against the amount of worth you're ascribing to the consumer goods trait. Each drone consumes only 0.5 consumer goods, baseline; you're saving only 0.125 consumer goods per machine with the trait, or effectively, only 1 mineral for every 16 machines. That's not counting the diminishing returns from other sources of consumer good efficiency, either. Hiveminded fucked around with this message at 10:08 on Sep 24, 2017 |
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Sep 24, 2017 09:57
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OwlFancier posted:Really? I'm a generic empire and I couldn't do that, just those two options. I did give them to the hoarder FE though. Oh, looks like I misunderstood. I thought you meant that interaction didn't work at all. I, too got the option to download them for safe-keeping, but I haven't played for long enough yet to see what happens later. What exactly triggered the second message, since there is no robot-droid-synth line to advance through?
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Sep 24, 2017 10:03
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Splicer posted:This is actually my plan for my next run. Pick up Machine Templates ASAP, turn everyone on my Homeworld into double jointed Leaderbots for the good leader percentages, and slowly replace them with specialists as I farm them out to kickstart new colonies. Splicer fucked around with this message at 13:41 on Sep 24, 2017 |
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Sep 24, 2017 12:20
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Mystery Prize posted:Ran into a really irritating bug today. Playing as Pacifist/Fanatic Materialist, started with Mechanist civic. No issues until I run into a Gestalt Consciousness machine empire, then all of a sudden half of my pops are getting huge happiness penalties due to "Owned Pop Emancipated". I haven't changed any policies or anything, but it's as if something freed and then re-enslaved my robots. They're not synthetics so I don't exactly have rights to give them, either. Had this exact same thing happen to me, but I wasn't sure when/why. Now I know it must have happened because I ran into a fallen machine empire. I'm guessing that the AI slavery policy doesn't appear until you research synths or meet a machine empire, and a bug in the code applies the freed effect to all the bot owning pops. I set mine back to servitude just incase.
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Sep 24, 2017 13:34
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How do you modify the base robot species anyway? All I see is Create Template
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Sep 24, 2017 14:10
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I bounced hard off this game by just being unable to wrap my mind around it...but now that there's robots I'm back in. I'm weak. Any good newbie tips for machining it up?
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Sep 24, 2017 14:16
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Captain Oblivious posted:How do you modify the base robot species anyway? All I see is Create Template The language on the species screen is a little unintuitive. When you want to modify your robots first you create a template using your current bot species as a base. This creates a sub-species under your main bot species with a population of 0. Then you click on this new sub-species and select 'Apply Template' which brings up the screen that lets you select which bots you want to modify to match the new template.
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Sep 24, 2017 14:43
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Captain Oblivious posted:How do you modify the base robot species anyway? All I see is Create Template 1 You create a template 2 You apply the template to your pops or 2b You select and build your modified pops when appropriate Presto: Base robot species modified
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Sep 24, 2017 14:44
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Can someone tell me what can cause the Sector AI to ignore the respect tile resources option?
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Sep 24, 2017 15:05
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Hmm so somebody changed the "arrested development" modifier to give the leader -1000% XP, presumably to counteract the possibility of them having positive modifiers which might allow them to still progress. However this results in the leader acquiring large amounts of negative experience, I wonder if it'll cause an overflow problem?
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Sep 24, 2017 15:07
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Libluini posted:1 You create a template Can I modify already build pops? Say, a miner guy, a science guy, etc... Also, does a +x% modifier does anything when your bot is only producing 4 minerals?
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Sep 24, 2017 16:05
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OwlFancier posted:Hmm so somebody changed the "arrested development" modifier to give the leader -1000% XP, presumably to counteract the possibility of them having positive modifiers which might allow them to still progress. sounds like the guy needs a shrink
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Sep 24, 2017 16:06
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Fat Samurai posted:Can I modify already build pops? Say, a miner guy, a science guy, etc... Also, does a +x% modifier does anything when your bot is only producing 4 minerals? Production is tracked to at least 2s.f. which you can see if you mouse over. You can retrofit pops on a species/template and planet basis, so you can retrofit all the pops of a given type on a given planet, but you can't break up a planet full of the same pops no, you have to build them in different groups. One of the weaknesses of the machine playstyle in that it kind of gimps you by locking you to one type of pop from the start.
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Sep 24, 2017 16:13
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Fat Samurai posted:Can I modify already build pops? Say, a miner guy, a science guy, etc... Also, does a +x% modifier does anything when your bot is only producing 4 minerals? Yes, but only on a per-planet basis. If you go to "apply", you can select your planets one by one. Every checked planet adds to a engineering project you get when you're finished. Research that project immediately, and all pops on the planets you've selected change to the template you chose. And yes, there are fractions. You can see them if you look them up in your budget, or if you hover over whatever thing is producing or using a resource. If you get bonus production on a planet tile, that number is green. Hover over the green number to see how much you get. For example, a special science bot on my capital planet produces 4,36 physics right now. (3 would be normal, the rest is from a bunch of bonuses I've piled on.)
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Sep 24, 2017 16:14
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My first machine race game has gone gone off the rails. The bottom-left side of the galaxy is me, a servitor machine race, and 3 nice peaceful races who formed a federation. the rest of the galaxy is nothing but crazy murder races. I kind of want to join the federation just so I'm not associated with all these crazies.
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Sep 24, 2017 16:25
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SniperWoreConverse posted:I'm already just gonna pay it off manually until the governor deals with it, i'm only interested in what is supposedly going on with my power here. The energy is going to the sector, because the sector has a deficit that it can't afford to pay off. Having an energy deficit is an empire-wide debuff, so it wouldn't make sense for it to affect only one sector or for it to be triggered from one sector. Instead, I guess it just takes money from your stockpile to cover the deficit. The problem in your case is that taxing the sector decreases the sector's next income from 0 to -2, and then the game charges you -2 power to cover that deficit...but the taxes that are causing that deficit are vanishing into nowhere. It should be a net gain of 0, because the following things should be happening: 1) the sector pays 75% tax, reducing their power income from 0 to -2 and putting them into a deficit 2) the 2 power worth of tax that they paid goes into your coffers, resulting in an income of 2 power from the sector 3) since the sector is in a deficit, you're charged 2 power to pay their debt, reducing your income from that sector by 2 For some reason, step 2 isn't happening - the sector is paying tax, but you're not receiving it. Odds are pretty good you discovered a bug.
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Sep 24, 2017 16:37
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Libluini posted:1 You create a template What happens when there's none of the base design left? Do one of the templates become the new base or does it just remain as like archaeological evidence of what used to be?
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Sep 24, 2017 16:41
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When is Awakened Empire decadence supposed to trigger? I had to become a signatory to this xenophile AE to not get stomped, and they practically have a solid third of the galaxy in their grip now (me included). I'm a Devouring Swarm so obviously this poo poo can't stand, but I won't be able to do much unless this decadence thing or a crisis pops off soon.
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Sep 24, 2017 16:43
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Captain Oblivious posted:What happens when there's none of the base design left? Do one of the templates become the new base or does it just remain as like archaeological evidence of what used to be? Probably nothing. It's not like the option to build new basic bots ever goes away. You can even "apply" your base design to all your specialists and ruin your min-maxed empire in one go! Edit: News from my current run: The first space nation our machines met where democratic crusaders and federation builders. They were a bit weirded out at first, then nothing happened for a couple years. Cue them accidentally colonizing a poo poo planet directly between two of my outposts and a colony of mine. Month after month after that, I saw their opinion falling because of the way their new colony was squeezed in by my territory. I started observing their fleet and carefully changed my ship designs to match their designs, thinking that sooner or later, they would attack me. Then we both ran into a large empire of fanatic purifiers at the same time. A couple of days after we both had to listen through long rants about how we will all die in a fire very soon, the democrat birds suddenly wanted a defensive pact. At first our alliance was a bit flimsy, but then my science bots found some famous lost work of the birdmen, and now they keep trusting my machine empire more and more. Funny thing: The purifiers and the democrats are both Avians. Libluini fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Sep 24, 2017 |
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Sep 24, 2017 16:45
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I think it would be pretty cool if name lists included unique star names for each one, so that if humanoids were out exploring the galaxy all of the stars they chart are given humanoid sounding names, but if they run into a group of reptiles and trade star charts the reptilian charted systems would all have reptile type names.
turn off the TV fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Sep 24, 2017 |
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Sep 24, 2017 17:01
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I think I like creating little Twilight Zone robotic empires almost as much as playing them. Autoicon Network of Devices posted:Autoicons were created by a colony of Terran philosophers to help them build a new utopia. Sadly, a typo in the firmware gave every Autoicon the hardcoded mandate to "provide the greatest GOODS for the greatest number of people." Thus, the formerly idyllic world was quickly transformed into a near lifeless desert as the surface was strip mined to provide the raw resources for cheap consumer products. The majority of the population quickly perished in the ecological disaster, their few remaining shelters now buried in mountains of mass produced detritus. Since the dwindling number of Terrans increases the per capita number of goods, this suits the Autoicons just fine. GamingHyena fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Sep 24, 2017 |
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Sep 24, 2017 17:22
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Captain Oblivious posted:What happens when there's none of the base design left? Do one of the templates become the new base or does it just remain as like archaeological evidence of what used to be?
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Sep 24, 2017 17:32
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I finally started working on Victoria 3 overwrites for the Synthetic Dawn portraits:  
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Sep 24, 2017 17:38
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Darth Windu posted:What's new since they added hive minds? I see something about robot races? Did they officially incorporate that goon droid mod into the game? No, the new DLC is focused on robots and added playable robot empires.
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Sep 24, 2017 17:50
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