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CPA moboards are almost entirely worthless and mostly serve as a massive distraction, especially the bridge. They're good tools to teach people how relative motion works in controlled situations but loving lol if you think they're going to help avoid collisions in crowded areas and not just be another distraction for the watchteam.
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Sep 22, 2017 19:46
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Geizkragen posted:Other than knowing that you live in the same poo poo hole I just left I don't know where you fit in either. Until recently I was part of the group delivering the asskicking you were describing. I'm part of Strike. I know there are a lot of people who can look at this from a realistic perspective, but I've made several people mad by bringing it up; typically at or near the sq xo level, and one O-6 that I have no idea who he was and was pleasantly surprised it didn't blow up in my face. There's a lot of head-burying going on, especially as Hook rolled around, but there are a bunch of people a couple of paygrades too junior to do anything about it who can see the writing on the wall. vulturesrow posted:First of all you, you are talking about a completely different thing than the poster you are responding to. And as for your assessment of Naval Aviation, even if I assume that your pessimistic assessment is really true, we are still leagues ahead of the surface world in terms of self-assessment, etc. The surface force is inching in the right direction but have a long ways to go. I think your branch of aviation has a better handle on reality than some of the others. But as far as being a different thing...no, not the part I'm talking about. There aren't many O-5/O-6/O-7 types willing to look at the 3 or 4 star and say "The people I am responsible for training to combat readiness are not fit for real world operations." It doesn't matter what pin they wear. Also this air wing had a pretty hosed up schedule, which I think was from high up on the CAG side. The schedule did not at all do them any favors. Godholio fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Sep 22, 2017 |
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Sep 22, 2017 20:00
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Chuckle posted:So, might be spending some time in Bremerton, anyone have recommendations on what to hit up to eat? Pouslbo: Sound Brewery has bomb rear end beer and the best pizza in Kitsap County. Aroy dy is cheap good Thai with a waterfront view. Cash only. Burrata Bistro has real good Italian food. The Loft has pretty good seafood and a great view. Silverdale: Silver City was mentioned. It's fine I guess. Their beers are pretty good. I prefer Hop Jack's if you're going for a burger/sandwich type place. Seabeck Pizza is pretty good too. Bremerton: There's like a Sizzler and poo poo idk. Walk onto the ferry and go somewhere less lovely.
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Sep 22, 2017 22:24
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Actually the Pho place near the base is pretty solid as well.
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Sep 22, 2017 22:51
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vulturesrow posted:Actually the Pho place near the base is pretty solid as well. Forget about them. Just went last week. Solid inclusions on lunch when working on base but I wouldn't go out of my way for it. If stuck on base don't be afraid of the All-American Cafe. They make a good burger and sometimes have excellent soups.
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Sep 22, 2017 22:55
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ManMythLegend posted:CPA moboards are almost entirely worthless and mostly serve as a massive distraction, especially the bridge. They're good tools to teach people how relative motion works in controlled situations but loving lol if you think they're going to help avoid collisions in crowded areas and not just be another distraction for the watchteam. In a busy situation, i agree. The fitz wasn't in a high traffic area.
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Sep 22, 2017 23:29
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Mr. Nice! posted:In a busy situation, i agree. The fitz wasn't in a high traffic area. Tokyo Wan is busier then you give it credit for. The point stands though. Mandating moboards would not have prevented the Fitz collision because they already weren't following proper procedures. Required moboards would just be another thing added to the pile that they weren't doing properly.
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Sep 23, 2017 01:15
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ManMythLegend posted:Tokyo Wan is busier then you give it credit for. The point stands though. Mandating moboards would not have prevented the Fitz collision because they already weren't following proper procedures. Required moboards would just be another thing added to the pile that they weren't doing properly. Valid enough. I'm just used to them already being a part of standing orders and we were all used to doing them fast because we did them all the time.
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Sep 23, 2017 01:49
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Godholio posted:I think your branch of aviation has a better handle on reality than some of the others. But as far as being a different thing...no, not the part I'm talking about. There aren't many O-5/O-6/O-7 types willing to look at the 3 or 4 star and say "The people I am responsible for training to combat readiness are not fit for real world operations." It doesn't matter what pin they wear. This is a big point. I'm pretty sure that if any CVW in the past...four deployments had made the decision to delay for any reason, it would have thrown a wrench in the OFRP, primarily by getting in the way of the CNO's 7-month deployment pledge. CSGs would have to have been extended on station, workup cycles would have been compressed even more than they are now. In other words, if CAG candidly assessed and reported to AIRLANT that they weren't ready, it would have become a CNO level issue almost immediately. My 7-month cruise was, ya know, just about as long as I needed it to be without it becoming a real pain in the rear end so I'm glad we're there, but there's no margin for error. This rounds all the way back up to things like there not being enough carriers and associated air wings, not enough ships, sequestration, and so on. You add into that things like the ongoing readiness issues associated with aircraft environmental control systems and you have a recipe for O-5/O-6 level decisions having force wide effects.
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Sep 23, 2017 02:07
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Godholio posted:I don't know where you fit into this one, but it was pretty rough compared to most of the others I've seen. But one of wing's O-6s loving gets it. He stood up at the end of a mass debrief and laid it out there...it was not a "hey we're getting through this" or a "you'll do better next time" or even a "hey, it's Fallon amirite?" speech. It was a candid and accurate assessment of where they were as professional combat aviators and how their performance was likely to serve them if the poo poo hits the fan. I wanted to loving applaud when he was done. I'm a Hawkeye instructor. Like you said, there were a lot of unique reasons why this air wing had some issues, though it probably isn't the worst overall that I've seen. It's definitely not unique in the legacy of "CAG has a Good Idea, Strike tells him that's not a Good Idea, CAG goes ahead anyway, failure ensues". The simple fact that there's a dedicated training venue for that kind of thing puts it way ahead of the surface world; we're still trying to teach SWOs the concept of a "debrief" after executing a training mission, so that people can actually learn and improve. There's probably a point where the CAG or CSG admiral needs to be able to say "nope, we're not ready", but I don't think Fallon is necessarily the hill to die on for that. Sequestration and the ongoing budgetary fuckery of endless continuing resolutions don't get enough blame for utterly gutting readiness and training. Those "cost saving" measures are going to end up costing a lot more money, lives, or both in order to get things back to a level that actually supports our national military goals.
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Sep 23, 2017 04:12
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Wingnut Ninja posted:
They already are.
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Sep 23, 2017 04:50
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ManMythLegend posted:Tokyo Wan is busier then you give it credit for. The point stands though. Mandating moboards would not have prevented the Fitz collision because they already weren't following proper procedures. Required moboards would just be another thing added to the pile that they weren't doing properly. You're right about it being distracting, and you've already admitted to their use in training, but I do feel like there is a general sense of 'those are old and useless ' in the navy now, and I disagree. If everybody has to do them long enough and you keep watch teams together, then you can make sure that at least one member per watch team understands relative motion (probably the most junior guy because people will call their hazing training). Based on the training you receive before your ship and the quality of some OOD qualified personnel I've met, it is very easy to put together a watch team who has a weak spatial apperception. The way I've most effectively trained it thus far is to demand a conjecture of target angle or expected CPA from a visual, have the person perform a moboard to substantiate their prediction, and then make observations to validate or alter the prediction. That's more about building this mental model that refreshed your mind about your preconceptions earlier and then alters the decision making process for future predictions. The advantage of required moboard solutions is that it gives the CO/XO/SWO/etc the ability to spot heck that standing orders are being followed, other than by hiding on a dark bridge for hours at a time. But it's also a huge distraction especially if the requirement is anything more than relative motion vectors. Moboard soapbox continued because this is how - spend my liberty: Also, basically every senior officer (except for one) who has caught me doing it disapproves of estimating time with dividers instead of measuring relative motion and using the nomograph. But using the spatial relationship to estimate is far more accurate than transposing a length to a scale (estimating the position on that scale), transposing that result to a logarithmic scale, applying a transformation based on another estimation (unless it was exactly three minutes), and then adding a third chance to fuzzy up that number when you read the product off the nomograph. But that's what the OS rating manual says, so forget measurement resolution.
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Sep 24, 2017 11:48
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LOL. I just got a mailer trying to recruit me as a cyber warefare engineer. I haven't even been out 3 months and they want me back?
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Sep 24, 2017 13:14
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Sir Lucius posted:LOL. I just got a mailer trying to recruit me as a cyber warefare engineer. I haven't even been out 3 months and they want me back? It's a hail mary pass for recruitment just in case in the odd chance your life sucks outside the navy.
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Sep 24, 2017 16:16
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Sir Lucius posted:LOL. I just got a mailer trying to recruit me as a cyber warefare engineer. I haven't even been out 3 months and they want me back? I still get poo poo like that, a year+ on. Maybe if my life was in a lovely place like living in a spot where i couldnt toss a dart and land a job  . I have no idea why i would ever go back, except for maybe if i was retarded and somehow let my clearance lapse.
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Sep 24, 2017 16:56
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Wtf is a Cyber Warfare Engineer? All I can envision is my uncle signing up to be an Engineer in 1969 and ending up chainsawing trees during jungle firefights. Is it Computer Janitor with low pay and no ability to change jobs? Like an H1-B?
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Sep 24, 2017 17:13
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orange juche posted:I still get poo poo like that, a year+ on. Maybe if my life was in a lovely place like living in a spot where i couldnt toss a dart and land a job Kind of makes me wonder how worthless I am because I never get and never have gotten any poo poo like that.
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Sep 24, 2017 17:21
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Remulak posted:Wtf is a Cyber Warfare Engineer? All I can envision is my uncle signing up to be an Engineer in 1969 and ending up chainsawing trees during jungle firefights. Fancy term for high level computer operator, or paper pusher.
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Sep 24, 2017 18:21
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I think it's a new officer designator they're trying to build up. But it's not engineering duty, it's restricted line in the same vein as cryppies, comms guys, weather guessers, and intel (everything guessers). I've only ever met one.
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Sep 24, 2017 18:24
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piL posted:The advantage of required moboard solutions is that it gives the CO/XO/SWO/etc the ability to spot heck that standing orders are being followed, other than by hiding on a dark bridge for hours at a time. But it's also a huge distraction especially if the requirement is anything more than relative motion vectors. No joke our XO used to hide in the machine space under the bridge, and sneak through the scuttle and pop out randomly when watchstanders were loving off. Dude was a ninja.
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Sep 24, 2017 18:34
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If people really cared about "are troops" I wouldn't have had to just spend 40 minutes burning and clipping errant stitches out of my loving Type IIIs. Quality is way down from the Lightweight Type Is. Prison industries gettin' worse at quality
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Sep 25, 2017 05:09
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Type 3s just do that like crazy when you wash them. This is your life now, this is what you do
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Sep 25, 2017 05:13
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Leave's over. Back to work today. 
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Sep 25, 2017 12:30
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In today's navy, does the CAG lead strikes or is it much more of a paperwork and just fly to maintain quals position?
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Sep 25, 2017 15:08
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Elendil004 posted:In today's navy, does the CAG lead strikes or is it much more of a paperwork and just fly to maintain quals position? For training missions and normal, everyday operations, the latter. CAG, when he does fly, will usually fly as a wingman or towards the back end of the formation, allowing more junior guys (i.e. everyone else in the airwing) to get some experience leading. Or he'll take the recovery tanker mission and spend an hour orbiting overhead the carrier enjoying the view. That being said, for a no-poo poo, day one, kicking off the war kind of strike, CAG is probably going to be right up front, with other senior officers (squadron COs/XOs) backing him up. There's no substitute for having The Man Himself in the fight when there's a judgment call to be made.
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Sep 26, 2017 02:22
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Apparently I missed a bunch of aviation discussion, but I'm getting drunk in the sandbox so I'm available now.
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Sep 26, 2017 14:42
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CMD598 posted:Apparently I missed a bunch of aviation discussion, but I'm getting drunk in the sandbox so I'm available now. Is the poop deck really what I think it is?
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Sep 26, 2017 18:46
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McNally posted:Is the poop deck really what I think it is? You're the best, McNally.
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Sep 26, 2017 19:38
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McNally posted:Is the poop deck really what I think it is? Promote that man!
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Sep 27, 2017 06:18
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Remulak posted:Wtf is a Cyber Warfare Engineer? All I can envision is my uncle signing up to be an Engineer in 1969 and ending up chainsawing trees during jungle firefights. They're supposed to be tool developers. In reality, 2/3rds of them are complete mouthbreathing loving morons who couldn't code their way out of a paper bag. Of the remaining third, about half of those folks are priors who are pretty great, and the other half are off-the-street and very talented. Mind you, we're talking about roughly 3 dozen people in the entire Navy, all of whom are at the same duty station (with few exceptions). Lucius: pass. The community is going away, anyways.
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Sep 27, 2017 22:11
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I'm in East Timor, defending your freedoms from proper use of tax dollars
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Sep 27, 2017 23:16
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buttplug posted:Lucius: pass. The community is going away, anyways. Nah, I wouldn't go back. Life on the outside is too awesome.
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Sep 28, 2017 04:36
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ManMythLegend posted:CPA moboards are almost entirely worthless and mostly serve as a massive distraction, especially the bridge. They're good tools to teach people how relative motion works in controlled situations but loving lol if you think they're going to help avoid collisions in crowded areas and not just be another distraction for the watchteam. I disagree. CPA moboards are essential but the caveat is that you need competent officers on the bridge that know how to do them quickly and accurately. They can be a distraction if the OOD isn't delegating it to the JOOD or another officer (not the CONN). Properly done moboards can cut through the extra noise that you get on various radar returns and inaccurate auto tracks on radar. Combat should also be doing moboards to back up the bridge. At the end of the it's a combination of all resources to make good safe decisions. Moboards are definitely one of them.
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Sep 28, 2017 14:48
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What the gently caress, do you surface dudes not have contact management software or what?
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Sep 28, 2017 19:08
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Got a 11:09 run, 40push 60sit on a mock PRT. Bought the unit donuts! 
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Sep 28, 2017 20:47
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Cerekk posted:What the gently caress, do you surface dudes not have contact management software or what? Little changes in radar return can lead to wild changes in software determined CPA.
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Sep 28, 2017 22:47
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I have no concept of the weird little world you inhabit in the reserves Lingcod
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Sep 28, 2017 23:40
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maffew buildings posted:I have no concept of the weird little world you inhabit in the reserves Lingcod I still can't believe you recognized me in MEPS. It ain't Hawaii but supporting a NOSC is pretty chill. Off orders on Friday and starting my civilian job on base the following week.
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Sep 29, 2017 00:28
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Stultus Maximus posted:Little changes in radar return can lead to wild changes in software determined CPA. Such as? ARPA has its limitations (If either the target or ownship turns or change speed, for example), but I've never seen it to have wild changes due to radar return issues. And I can't recall the last time I was on a ship whose magnetrons weren't hissing. Beside you should be trying for a CPA that's wide enough that radar inaccuracies shouldn't put you at risk. It's been my experience that ARPA's limitations are far, far outweighed by the reductions in workload.
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Sep 29, 2017 00:36
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"You can't make a computer program that does what moboards do. It's just too complex." - something my OCS moboards instructor literally said to my class. That was the day I learned that the Navy does not send its best and brightest officers to teach OCS.
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Sep 29, 2017 01:40
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