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I got that game over too on my first time around. It's such a great intro to Akiba's Trip.
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Sep 24, 2017 00:09
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Ok got a ps4 pro and a Sony X900E 4k tv. All video output is set to automatic. Question with this: LIMITED is what my pro is selecting based on interacting with the tv. My og ps4 and old tv did not send the info correctly and automatic was set as FULL, when in reality it should have been LIMITED, as I got crushed blacks as a result. So therefore with the pro and x900e is LIMITED correct? I don't sense any crushed blacks, so I think it is. Just want to confirm. Secondly, upon selecting video output information I am being told 4k resolution with RGB. This only changes when I have an HDR title, and then it is 4k and YUV420 because of transfer speed limitations. My question is this: is RGB better than YUV420? If so, does that mean the loving hdmi cable that came with the pro isn't good enough for HDR?
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Sep 24, 2017 01:32
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Find your tv on like rtings and follow their advice
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Sep 24, 2017 03:37
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MeatwadIsGod posted:I've basically been murdering city watch only when it's expedient or too tempting to resist. As for targets I'm killing or sparing people if I think it makes sense for Corvo to do it. Lecherous, blackmailing "holy" man? That's a paddlin'. Two lovely aristocrats who abducted my charge? That's a paddlin'. Spy master who killed the empress and framed me? That's a paddlin'. Guy who tortured me? That's a paddlin'. You are playing correctly. Which is weird in this game because doing 'perfectly' ghosting is really not playing the game correctly. Murder ' or worse' those assholes.
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Sep 24, 2017 03:37
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dishonored's morality is weird because of how far out of your way you have to go to actually achieve high chaos. you gotta kill so many people before the game goes "hmm, maybe this guy is kind've a dick" in 2 it changes like 2 lines maybe so who cares
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Sep 24, 2017 03:39
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I never saw the dishonored chaos level as a morality system, just the reaction to the level of madness you've caused by being a terrifying cosmic lunatic. Like you're an assassin and you're allowed to kill people, it's just how over the top you've been while doing it.
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Sep 24, 2017 09:31
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Manatee Cannon posted:dishonored's morality is weird because of how far out of your way you have to go to actually achieve high chaos. you gotta kill so many people before the game goes "hmm, maybe this guy is kind've a dick" Even if it takes a lot of effort to reach high chaos, I think it's still an annoying and unnecessary mechanic because instead of thinking in the moment about how to best approach whatever situation you're in, you're thinking oh man I hope don't use up too many of my Badguy Kill Points to achieve desired endscreen %. It's the same way that in whenever you give certain players a very limited amount of a consumable, they're going to hoard it until they really need it, which is going to be probably never now because a finite amount exists and there's always a "better" use for it elsewhere.
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Sep 24, 2017 10:12
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It was easy to achieve both the good and bad endings of dishonoured and didn't take very special attention to no kills or whatever for the low chaos run.
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Sep 24, 2017 10:15
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If you kill more people in Dishonored the game gives you more people to kill, seems fine to me. Who gives a poo poo about the minor morality stuff.
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Sep 24, 2017 10:46
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TF2 HAT MINING RIG posted:If you kill more people in Dishonored the game gives you more people to kill, seems fine to me. I didn't even notice the chaos rating until like my third or fourth mission but have gotten low chaos even while killing a fair amount of people. When a lot of thought gets put in to making a believable game world, I tend to play in ways that I think make sense for the protagonist and match the tone of the game. Even then, Corvo is enough of a blank slate where you can make the game about eye-for-an-eye justice where you remove corrupt people from power by killing them, or you can be a high-minded chessmaster who contrives situations where the city's institutions must reform themselves in response to your actions. I like that Dishonored is elastic enough to make that work and have both outcomes be believable within the setting.
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Sep 24, 2017 12:36
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The Chaos system felt weird because it's waggling a finger at the player for using tools its systems are designed around. While this was less of an issue in the sequel, in the first it was awful - your non-lethal gear amounted to sleep darts and a chokehold. It was really, really boring.
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Sep 24, 2017 12:38
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I'm playing First Light now and I have to say it feels better than Second Son to me. It's simpler and has only half the map, but the gameplay feels much snappier, with less canned animations and fewer steps to do, well, anything. Collecting orbs is giving me pleasant flashbacks to PS2-era collectathons. I skipped all the boring side stuff in SS so it doesn't bother me in the slightest that they're missing from FL. It does have the arena fights if you can't get enough of the gameplay. Oh: and they removed the meaningless morality system as well.
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Sep 24, 2017 13:21
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poptart_fairy posted:The Chaos system felt weird because it's waggling a finger at the player for using tools its systems are designed around. While this was less of an issue in the sequel, in the first it was awful - your non-lethal gear amounted to sleep darts and a chokehold. It was really, really boring. High chaos is not waggling a finger.
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Sep 24, 2017 13:52
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TF2 HAT MINING RIG posted:If you kill more people in Dishonored the game gives you more people to kill, seems fine to me. The point isn't that it's a forgiving system, but that it works directly against encouraging the player to use their full complement of abilities to get through the level for fear of using up some predetermined quota of Bad Guy Kill Points. That's going to take some people out of the moment where instead of acting upon or experimenting with the skills they'd most like to use for the situation, they're going to feel limited and stick to darts even if they could get away with more lethal options longer because they have no prior knowledge of how many Bad Guy Kill Points they'll accrue. It's just overly video gamey for a title that does not even need it and otherwise actively invites the player to use every tool at their disposal.
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Sep 24, 2017 13:57
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Bombadilillo posted:High chaos is not waggling a finger. The game making a Big Point about how everything is terrible, getting worse and so on comes across like it regardless. It's one of many reasons Dishonoured's plot and writing are pretty bad, but the actual world building is fantastic.
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Sep 24, 2017 14:27
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Renoistic posted:I'm playing First Light now and I have to say it feels better than Second Son to me. It's simpler and has only half the map, but the gameplay feels much snappier, with less canned animations and fewer steps to do, well, anything. Collecting orbs is giving me pleasant flashbacks to PS2-era collectathons. Yup
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Sep 24, 2017 14:46
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JBP posted:I never saw the dishonored chaos level as a morality system, just the reaction to the level of madness you've caused by being a terrifying cosmic lunatic. the game frames it like that but the ending is pretty clearly a moral good/bad choice based on your chaos level tho it is pretty flawed either way since it's entirely a matter of "if you create more corpses, you'll spread the plague" even tho there's an ability that turns people you kill into ash
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Sep 24, 2017 18:42
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exquisite tea posted:It's the same way that in whenever you give certain players a very limited amount of a consumable, they're going to hoard it until they really need it, which is going to be probably never now because a finite amount exists and there's always a "better" use for it elsewhere. That happened to me in Dishonored because part of how I ended up falling into a ghost run was that I didn't want to use the elixirs when if I only used powers sparingly I could keep myself at 100% with the built-in recharge and drinking water. Of course when ghosting fell through that went out the window
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Sep 24, 2017 19:06
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Manatee Cannon posted:the game frames it like that but the ending is pretty clearly a moral good/bad choice based on your chaos level i think part of the issue is that there's two different things people called 'bad endings', one where you see all the content but the last 30 seconds is sadder and one where the game just cuts off early(ala p4) and people conflate the two and make the former thing one you shouldn't be happy with getting the one time i went through dishonored 1 i got high chaos because i was bad at stealth and didn't like reloading constantly and i didn't really feel punished or shamed or whatever, the game saw that i had to kill tons of peeps to accomplish my goals and the world reacted accordingly and that's rewarding in my books
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Sep 24, 2017 19:39
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All the atlus demon games have a point 80% through where a simple dialog choice rolls credits. Its pretty funny
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Sep 24, 2017 19:43
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Brother Entropy posted:i think part of the issue is that there's two different things people called 'bad endings', one where you see all the content but the last 30 seconds is sadder and one where the game just cuts off early(ala p4) and people conflate the two and make the former thing one you shouldn't be happy with getting.  Play a game, enjoy yourself and if you'd rather not replay (or collect 200 riddler trophies) watch any other endings on YouTube.
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Sep 24, 2017 19:46
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I love how people keep saying Dishonored doesn't scold/wag a finger at you or whatever, and when someone brings up that the game does exactly that like 5+ times it's like "nah, that's just the outsider/samuel/pierro's opinion."  I mean, Dishonored is a great game and the chaos system doesn't even detract from it that much, but I don't know why a few of you are so hellbent on defending such a lame, half baked morality system or arguing it's not a morality system at al because of semantics.
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Sep 24, 2017 21:05
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I think people would have much less of a problem with Dishonored's system if they didn't even touch the high chaos side but just brought the low chaos side down to earth. The "and they all lived happily ever after" ending is so out-of-place with the setting. The Daud DLC at least acknowledges how compromised morally you have to be once you set yourself on the path to change things by loving people up, even if you follow stupid Batman rules, so it doesn't seem so artificial
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Sep 24, 2017 21:26
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Renoistic posted:I'm playing First Light now and I have to say it feels better than Second Son to me. It's simpler and has only half the map, but the gameplay feels much snappier, with less canned animations and fewer steps to do, well, anything. Collecting orbs is giving me pleasant flashbacks to PS2-era collectathons. I'd really like another Infamous. We've seen Delsin and Fetch's POV. Maybe Eugene? IDK. I just love that movement set. I love how free I feel running around Seattle using the powers (especially Neon and Video). No game I have played since has really come close to that except maybe Saints IV/Gat out of Hell and Agents of Mayhem to a certain extent.
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Sep 24, 2017 22:11
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The infamous studio has been holed up for 4 years making a new thing but we arent allowed to know
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Sep 24, 2017 22:23
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People are weird about morality in their murder simulators I guess.
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Sep 24, 2017 23:16
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They're wrapping up Agent of course.
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Sep 24, 2017 23:56
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i know i missed the dishonored chaos morality system chat but you can murder every single target in the game and finish with low chaos so pretending the outcome of your choices in targets is tied to a good/bad binary morality system is dumb af and very disingenuous, thanks
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Sep 25, 2017 00:17
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veni veni veni posted:I love how people keep saying Dishonored doesn't scold/wag a finger at you or whatever, and when someone brings up that the game does exactly that like 5+ times it's like "nah, that's just the outsider/samuel/pierro's opinion." Semantics have nothing to do with it. Calling a binary system like chaos a morality system only works if you can argue that every action on one side of the system is morally better, and in dishonored's case, every single one of those actions is "killing" vs "not killing." So for chaos to equal morality you have to argue deontological ethics (good loving luck with that) and claim that killing is always and without exception better than any alternative, even if that alternative is obviously horrible like lady boyle's last party in dishonored 1. Are you actually going to make that argument? Do you think the low chaos solution to that level is better than the high chaos one, or that the devs want you to think that? A few other levels in both games have low chaos solutions that are in a gray area because they are far more cruel and sadistic than killing the target, where I'm really not comfortable saying low chaos is morally better, or that the devs want you to think it is. The best explanation for chaos I've read (and was cited as coming from one of the devs) is that it's a reversal of cause and effects so that the game is changing the tone of the story to suit how people in the world see your actions. Hundreds of people are getting murdered everywhere? Must be a dark story! It also addresses the fact that chaos changes things that couldn't possibly be caused by how many people you've killed, like how the last level is nighttime and raining in high chaos but daytime with blue skies in low chaos.
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Sep 25, 2017 00:18
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TF2 HAT MINING RIG posted:People are weird about morality in their murder simulators I guess. Hideo Kojima made 12 year olds think about taking virtual lives and now 32 year olds need justification to take them. We're all Raiden. My pain inhibitors are off.
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Sep 25, 2017 00:18
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Digirat posted:Semantics have nothing to do with it. Calling a binary system like chaos a morality system only works if you can argue that every action on one side of the system is morally better, and in dishonored's case, every single one of those actions is "killing" vs "not killing." So for chaos to equal morality you have to argue deontological ethics (good loving luck with that) and claim that killing is always and without exception better than any alternative, even if that alternative is obviously horrible like lady boyle's last party in dishonored 1. Are you actually going to make that argument? Do you think the low chaos solution to that level is better than the high chaos one, or that the devs want you to think that? A few other levels in both games have low chaos solutions that are in a gray area because they are far more cruel and sadistic than killing the target, where I'm really not comfortable saying low chaos is morally better, or that the devs want you to think it is. yeah except you're suggesting that the game is explicitly suggesting that some of the really awful non-lethal options are moral because of the chaos system which has to do with basically whether you're killing a lot of people or not, and is not being decided by one time killing a dickhead villain
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Sep 25, 2017 00:22
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you're extrapolating intent from a system that was designed before non-lethal options were ever even in the game
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Sep 25, 2017 00:22
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They retconned Boyles low chaos fate so she kills her captor and comes away with a bigger fortune afterwards. It is 100% better.
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Sep 25, 2017 00:25
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I remember the crappy morality system in Demon Souls. It changed if YOU died. And other people's games affected yours. What a terrible binary morality system.
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Sep 25, 2017 00:28
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Demon Souls didn't have a massive tutorial pop up about choice and consequence in relation to that, so
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Sep 25, 2017 00:30
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rabidsquid posted:you're extrapolating intent from a system that was designed before non-lethal options were ever even in the game I'm saying the opposite. You can't extrapolate intent from the system unless you want to argue that the devs hold a morally untenable idea, which I doubt anyone wants to do. rabidsquid posted:yeah except you're suggesting that the game is explicitly suggesting that some of the really awful non-lethal options are moral because of the chaos system which has to do with basically whether you're killing a lot of people or not, and is not being decided by one time killing a dickhead villain I'm saying the opposite. If it's a moral binary then every chaos-related choice would line up with that binary, but it doesn't, because you can argue that killing random city watch guards is worse than knocking them out, but that killing lady boyle on the spot is a lot better than shipping her off to be a sex slave for the rest of her life. Both of those things contribute to chaos in the same way, and the mission targets influence chaos far more than random guards. The first time I played, I killed a decent number of guards in each level but took out the target nonlethally (except for level 4), and the game ended in low chaos.
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Sep 25, 2017 00:38
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Digirat posted:Semantics have nothing to do with it. Calling a binary system like chaos a morality system only works if you can argue that every action on one side of the system is morally better, and in dishonored's case, every single one of those actions is "killing" vs "not killing." So for chaos to equal morality you have to argue deontological ethics (good loving luck with that) and claim that killing is always and without exception better than any alternative, even if that alternative is obviously horrible like lady boyle's last party in dishonored 1. Are you actually going to make that argument? Do you think the low chaos solution to that level is better than the high chaos one, or that the devs want you to think that? A few other levels in both games have low chaos solutions that are in a gray area because they are far more cruel and sadistic than killing the target, where I'm really not comfortable saying low chaos is morally better, or that the devs want you to think it is. It is semantics because it's functionally identical to any other low effort morality system that people regularly complain about in games. It doesn't work because of things like the Lady Boyle situation. Even if that is a fate worse than death the game doesn't recognize that because of the system they have in place. And the game reinforces this many times. It explicitly states low=good high=bad throughout. Even if you don't want to call it a morality system(which makes absolutely no sense to me), it's still bad because it makes actual choices less interesting by making them super gamey. So instead of playing in a way that interests you as a player, you're likely to play to whatever goal you are aiming for (low or high chaos) which is the main reason people complain about these types of systems in games in the first place. My problem isn't with the definition of morality, it's with a lazy mechanic that detracts from an otherwise good game. veni veni veni fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Sep 25, 2017 |
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Sep 25, 2017 00:42
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Games are games, so idk what kind of criticism "gamey" is. The chaos system never gets in the way of your choices though because its incredibly lax and if you do something that puts you on the wrong route you can get back on the other one very easily.
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Sep 25, 2017 00:44
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Sounds like Chaos is about whether or not you're causing chaos, not morality. Do some moral choices cause Chaos to rise?
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Sep 25, 2017 00:44
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Bombadilillo posted:I remember the crappy morality system in Demon Souls. I assume you're joking but the game did actually have morality system kind of, tho it wasn't world tendency character tendency was one of the least explained systems in a game of poorly explained systems. basically killing named black phantoms or invaders moved you towards white and killing named npcs moved it towards black (that's what the silhouette of a person was for in the menus and it's what changed color) http://demonssouls.wikidot.com/character-tendency
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Sep 25, 2017 00:46
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